Lower Tiers RU Viability Rankings Thread

[Punchshroom]

Mawile's merit pre-TRex meta was that it was a TRex counter that can retain momentum with Baton Pass, making it one of the few Trex answers that can fit on offense. Now, that niche is pretty much gone, and looking through the list of the current mons, I'm realizing that Mawile doesn't actually reliably stop a whole lot. As far as responding to offensive threats goes, it counters Sneasel and Absol, which is fine and good, and can fend off Mega Glalie, Aerodactyl, and Scrafty for an amount of time. Aside from that, Mawile loses plenty of 1v1 matchups, and forfeits momentum to a large amount of threats. The problem with defensive Mawile is that it has neither the bulk, offensive presence, or arguably even the longevity to properly do its job, which heavily limits the amount of favorable matchups for Mawile, and is a problem when you consider pretty much every other worthwhile bulky Pokemon in RU has at least two of those qualities. It's hardly even a reliable Stealth Rocker as it has a bad matchup against the two most popular & efficient hazard removers. Flygon can immediately threaten Mawile and outlasts it with Roost, and although Flygon can't switch directly into Mawile very safely, this is remedied by the fact that Mawile gets SR up safely against fewer mons in comparison to the amount of Pokemon Flygon can Defog against. Meanwhile, Blastoise can aim for Scald burns and Refresh Mawile's Toxic, and even with the threat of Super Fang, Blastoise doesn't need to be healthy to 1v1 Mawile. Hell, I am even skeptical of one of its better niches in Baton Pass. Sure, maintaining momentum is one of Mawile's best selling traits as a defensive mon, but when it is so reliant on it (due to its bad matchups against at least ~3 of the opponent's Pokemon in a typical match) to the point where it risks becoming predictable, I start to question its overall effectiveness.

Mawile still has some other sets like SD Pass or even SD Sheer Force (+2 Play Rough does upwards of 68-80% to phys def Alomo, and +2 Iron Head easily OHKOes tank Rhyperior), but those still suffer from huge problems like their awful bulk and Speed, which is only compounded here since these Mawile sets have less incentive / no means to just immediately Baton Pass out. They don't have a lot of safe opportunities to even boost up in the first place.

All in all, Mawile stands to lose to more than it beats, and I feel like these nigh insurmountable issues are just too much for Mawile to remain in B-, and warrants a drop to C+ or possibly even lower than that, as I feel Mawile isn't even as consistent as most of the C+ mons.

Also support Gourgeist-XL's rise to B- (or higher), though I've been using a slightly different set than 49's with Rock Slide > Foul Play, since Rock Slide can catch various switch-ins for decent damage and even fatal in Fletchinder's case. Btw why the hell isn't Ambipom D- too?

 

[phantom]

updates:

Glalie (mega) up to A+
Braviary up to A-
Gourgeist-XL up to B-
Xatu up to B-
Mawile down to C+

discussion points:

Alomomola up to S
Spiritomb down to B+/B
Gallade down to B
Aggron up to B+
Poliwrath down to C+
Pelipper down to C+
Roselia down to C+
Togetic down to C+
Braviary up to A
Dugtrio up to A+
Emboar down to A-

 

[Thatwackycruton]

Alright, A little discussion slate on the things here that I care about.

Alomomola to S: No

Alomomola is excellent, there's no doubt about that. However, despite being a bare necessity on most reasonably fat teams, I still don't think it's enough of a force to be bumped up into S rank. I could just shove a bunch of its flaws in this post, but I feel that wouldn't go over well with most reasonable players. Instead, I'd like to state that the obvious fact that Venusaur is an absolute force right now and kinda has always been a key factor in keeping Alomomola out of S, and this time around I don't think that it's changed. In fact, Magneton gives Alomomola an even harder time. Yes, it can be scouted with protect, but many good players will play games with double switching or not double switching, a game that certainly isn't in favor of the Alomomola user. Besides that, many of the things it can switch in on can either smack it with Knock Off (Sneasel, Scyther) or a random toxic (Flygon). While Toxic can obviously be scouted for, you'd be doing just that- scouting, and not making more productive plays. Besides that, Alomomola is complete bait for Virizion and increasingly common Braviary. Alomomola is still a centerpiece of the metagame but isn't as splashable as Flygon, Can't solo the last 4 mons of most teams like Venusaur, and isn't nearly as threatening as Virizion.

Spiritomb to B+: Yes

While Spiritomb holds some awesome perks over other trappers, the most notable of which being a Fighting check, I still think it should be taken down a notch to B+. For the most part, it struggles to to much else besides act as Fighting check and trapper. It's a shakey RKer and attempts to spread burns can horribly backfire since most of the fire types it lets in (Mega Camerupt, Emboar, Houndoom) can blast huge holes in your team. I really don't think it should go to B since it's a kickin' Medicham stop, but it's not quite on the level of most of the Pokemon in A- and certainly isn't as versatile.

Gallade to B: Yes

At least. Okay, I know this the most overused argument that could ever be used here... but dear god, why would I ever use this thing over Medicham? SD+Lum or LO or whatever the decent set is nowadays is cool, but LO Medicham or even Choice Scarf Medicham can smash the same things in half the time. Okay, knock off is cool, but it still doesn't break tomb, Colbur Psychics, or Colbur Psychics. I think it fits fine in B as a sorely outclassed pokemon that's still quite usable despite heavily favored competition.

Braviary to A: Yes

What can I say? Many fat teams are found waving a white flag 10 turns in against this thing. Sub BU Bird has no problems beating some more offensive teams that aren't playing aggressive enough. It sets up on so many bulky threats, including Registeel, Alomomola, fat flygon, And, if you have the balls, and they don't have the defense boosts, Diancie. The ability to remove weaknesses at will with roost is absolutely fantastic against many slower Pokemon, especially people who rely on relatively passive rock types to check it. Speaking of using Passive rock types to check Braviary, Many teams doing just that can be ripped into by LO and CB sets. I've been fiddling a bit with these and have found them to act as good breakers, able to nab momentum with U-turn and deal hefty damage to rock type switchins with superpower. I'd say that LO is the superior set since it can effectively use roost and is excellent on birdspam, but I digress. Requiring hazard support and stacking weaknesses with Blastoise and Flygon sucks, but it can still work efficiently enough with both of them.

Emboar the A-: Yes

It's begrudgingly that I agree with an Emboar drop. The Choice Scarf set struggles to put in more work than Medicham and are disappointingly slow for a Scarf user, while wallbreaker sets are actually kinda hard to get in safely, since Emboar wants as much health as possible to be spamming Flare Blitz. Certainly not a bad mon, but struggling to break Mola is not a desirable trait is a wallbreaker.

It's almost 2 in the morning, so I won't go on. I do have an additional opinion or two that I'll dish out later if need be.

 

[Take Azelfie]

Alomomola up to S

While Alomomola is the face of RU's fat water, I disagree with this rise. Alomomola hasn't gotten better in fact it is slowly getting worse as more players AND Pokemon are adapting around Mola. Pokemon such as Virizion and Venusaur are seem in staple metagame archetypes, specs Magneton at least forces Mola to switch out forcing 50-50s, and SubBU Braviary has been reaching out for fame. Pokemon like Flygon and even Dugtrio are using Toxic to cripple it (Dugtrio is cool cuz it also traps Diancie, a common partner a Heal Bell user to pair with Mola.) To sum it up, nothing has changed for the better to justify Mola rising.

Spiritomb down to B+/B

Even though it is common go back Mon on many teams it can be mediocre and pressured too easily. The one thing this Pokemon accels at the most is stopping Medicham and Meloetta and reliably revenge killing Hoopa (or coming in on a predicted FBlast / Psychic coverage) all with Pursuit. Unfortunately its a let down to letting a lot of Pokemon take advantage of it which is why I think it should drop.

Gallade down to B

It's a cool Pokemon to build around. But why actually use it over Medicham lol. Gallade has distinguishable factors like SD, Knock, and Sneak but it is hard to utilize it with such a lackluster speed (for what it wants to do) and even with Knock Off Psychic's are still a pain. IMO I would drop this to B- and raise Scrafty because it can at least raise its speed and shrug status off while being able to ACTUALLY break Psychic-types.

Aggron up to B+

Not gonna give my opinions since I'm biassed on would rather use CB Rhyp.

Poliwrath down to C+

The first part of my Mola argument applies here to. Evolution of ways to deal with Mola second handedly effects of Poliwrath. Poliwrath also faces competition from Diancie in a weird way. Most people can run Mola + Diancie and get there bulky water + dark check with a lot more reliabily and options. And I know people will tear me apart if I don't mention Poli's biggest niche which is shuffling but Flygon being on 30% of teams doesn't help and Garbodor being one of the most reliable Spike setters hurts Poliwrath.

Pelipper down to C+

Simply put, Pelipper is only useful when you need a Flygon with a different type. Which isn't often.

Roselia down to C+

Roselia doesn't deserve to drop. Stall as play style hasn't changed but it fills a void Amoonguss left (rip) while also being able to utilize Spikes and Toxic Spikes. And I feel that Knock Off sponges for stall are better since Fairies don't fear Mega Steelix waltzing in. And even though it faces competition from Venusaur Roselia is still good enough to stay B-.

Togetic down to C+

Never used this Mon, ever

Braviary up to A

Braviary abuses a lot of the common Pokemon right now its absurd. SubBU is fantastic balance and stall breaker and definitely is absurdly underrated. Choice Scarf is nice for a Virizion / Accelgor revenge killer. Life Orb or CB weaken checks really fast. Braviary is such a threatening Mon at the moment and deserves the rise.

Dugtrio up to A+

Dugtrio is literally god. It tears apart cores so badly by simply reining one Pokemon. Its adaptable to kill Virizion and occasionally Toxic stuff like King and Mola. It breaks offensive teams with to much ease after some prior chip damage. One of the most notable things that I need to mention is how Dugtrio beats most non Calm Mind (even beats some) set up sweepers. This notable because you eliminate the opponents win condition. But yh Duggy is god.

Emboar down to A

More biased than Aggron so no comments

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Alomomola up to S

No way. It's complete Taunt bait, highly susceptible to Toxic since it doesn't get Heal Bell, it's a one trick pony (although admittedly it is very good at that one trick). Virizion and Venusaur are all over the place, and Specs Magneton got a big viability boost. If anything it deserves to drop a rank.

Spiritiomb to B+/B

Agree, it's very slow, not that powerful and a lot of the Psychic types it used to check are finding ways of dealing with it - Sigilyph and Meloetta can run Dazzling Gleam to 2HKO it.

Gallade to B

Agree, as much as I love this mon as a wallbreaker it's outdone by Medicham, Hitmonlee and Sawk. However, I think its Sub Bulk Up set gives it more of a niche over its rivals. It can also run a good Assault Vest set.

Aggron to B+

Agree, with Tyrantrum gone it's now the only viable Pokémon with Rock Head + Head Smash. It's faster than Rhyperior, and thanks to Head Smash it can hit harder despite a lower Attack stat. It can run a Rock Polish set arguably better, since with a Jolly nature it can outrun Scarf Hitmonlee at +2 which Rhyperior can't do. The numerous Fighting types still make its life tricky though.

Never used Poliwrath, Pelipper, Roselia or Togetic so I have no opinion on them

Braviary to A

Agree, this thing is loving the new meta without Tyrantrum and Mega Steelix. Its Sub Bulk Up set blows through stall teams like nothing - even Diancie can't touch it after a few Bulk Ups. While Sub Bulk Up is its best set, it can also run a good Choice Scarf revenge killer set, while its Choice Band set has almost no safe switch ins due to its great coverage options. Unlike Sawk, it has a STAB nothing is immune to.

Never used Dugtrio

Emboar to A-

Disagree, I think its neutrality to Fairy gives it a niche over its rivals and its immunity to Burns helps a lot too. Between Flare Blitz, Superpower, Wild Charge and Sucker Punch, there isn't much that can safely switch in.

Also, I nominate Druddigon to B/B+. Its Life Orb set has very few safe switch ins, and it can bait in Fairy-types and 2HKO all of them with Iron Tail / Gunk Shot.

-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Druddigon Iron Tail vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 221-263 (57.7 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Druddigon Iron Tail vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Togetic: 205-242 (65.4 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Druddigon Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Togetic: 247-291 (78.9 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Druddigon Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Diancie: 161-190 (52.9 - 62.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO (obviously Iron Tail OHKOes)

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Druddigon Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Audino: 234-278 (57 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Q10jj34eeDnK]

A+ to S Disagree

Yeah, no. Grass types and Magneton have been common and good lately, it's completely shut down by Taunt, it hits incredibly weak and is fodder for a lot of Pokemon provided that Alomomola didn't burn them. It is also super susceptible to status conditions and it needs a decent amount of team support. As ChrystalFalchion said, I'd rather see it drop if anything.

A to A- Disagree

Emboar beats Venusaur and can check Virizion (just barely though but still), two of the best and most common Pokemon in the tier. Emboar also beats the big three (Magneton, Registeel and Rhyperior) and even Water types don't like Wild Charge. I really don't get why this thing warrants a drop.

B to B+ Agree

Sure. Aggron got a viability spike with the loss of Tyrantrum and Steelix-Mega. Aggron can prove to be a very nice bulky wallbreaker, with few things wanting to switch in on it. Before you say Magneton/Registeel/Rhyperior, it has Low Kick and Fire Punch. Aggron pretty much fills both of Tyrantrum's and Steelix-Mega's roles, and it does a good job of it too, namely the wallbreaking part is what makes it stand out.

- - - -

Also my own nom

A to A+

Magneton loses to Virizion, but looking outside of that. It has become one of the tiers primary walls, beating bulky waters which have been common lately. It's also SSI to Venusaur and it has Magnet Rise, which really helps it out against a lot of Pokemon that otherwise beat it. Magneton even has average speed for RU standards, it can pretty easily switch into attacks and then Magnet Rise and then strike with its powerful 120 Sp. Attack stat. Magneton also excels as a trapper. Magneton keeps getting better and better and it needs A+.

 

[Lord Death Man]

I disagree with a Magneton rise. I personally feel that they're pretty damn vulnerable at all times and have extremely limited switchins overall. Outside of crushing builds that overrly on Diancie + Blastoise as a core, I just don't think they're very good. Magnet Rise / Eviolite sets severely lack power, most resists outspeed and 2hko specs, and a lot of things it'd like to take on, such as Alomomola, have ways around it. I think this most is drifting by on undeserved hype currently, and should stay A or possibly drop to A-. It's also not a particularly compelling SSI to venusaur even if you're eviolite, since eviolite isn't 2hkoing bulky saur and it just getting slept by LO sets. The mons it checks, other than Braviary, have been on the decline as well. Also it loathes actually switching into bulky waters other than maybe Blastoise.

Also it doesn't really trap anything of note except escavalier, a mon sitting at a dope 7% usage, and the rare mawile, and you have to drop Anayltic and your coverage hidden power for it.

Togetic shouldn't drop. Access to thunder wave / encore / flamethrower / baton pass / single turn healing are all big niches, and it also checks a ton of stuff by merit of it's ridiculous bulk. Fighting types who use knock off have been getting a lot rarer recently as well. Its a fairy with recovery who also doesn't let Venusaur, Delphox and Magneton in for free, whereas Tisse totally does.

I also think B+ rather than B is good for tomb. I like it a lot, but it's just sort of drifting by right now because it's kind of a mediocre fighting check while also being a sort of meh psychic check and a spinblocker that loses to Blastoise.

 

[Kableye]

I think you guys are underselling just how good Alomomola is. Somethings can still be very good and still have counters (see Mega Steelix).

Alomomola up to S

No way. It's complete Taunt bait, highly susceptible to Toxic since it doesn't get Heal Bell, it's a one trick pony (although admittedly it is very good at that one trick). Virizion and Venusaur are all over the place, and Specs Magneton got a big viability boost. If anything it deserves to drop a rank.

Is it really bad to be a one trick pony when that one trick makes you one of the best Pokemon in the tier? Alomomola is really useful for any defensive team. The higher tiers leave us with the Pokemon with terrible recovery, and Alomomola is the best we have to fix this. Without it, stall, semi-stall and even balance would be unusable. I don't think Magneton should even be acknowledged. Specs is its best set, which is useless vs protect. Venusaur on the other hand is way easier to take on if alo knocks it off. Virizion less so, but Alomomola can wish and switch to an appropriate check. That's always been one of its biggest draws to me, even if its counters are abundant, it's ridiculous Wishes makes the counters to these mons even better. Alomomola influences team building almost as much as lix did. You need a way to break not just walls but walls + Alomomola otherwise you'll find your team easily overran by the fish. It's rare to find a team that doesn't benefit from Alomomola. So yeah, it should be S imo, and should have been for months now.

 

[Cheryl.]

I can totally throw my support in for a rise to A+ for Dugtrio. Dugtrio is, without a doubt, one of the best offensive support Pokemon in the tier right now due to it's ability to trap and KO many threats, such as Registeel, Virizion (If it runs Aerial Ace which it should), and non-Ice Shard Sneasel. It helps tear apart a ton of cores by KOing an integral partner, like Registeel for RegiMola cores, allowing your other Pokemon to take advantage of the opened hole that Dugtrio helped open, like using Venusaur to take advantage of Alomomola without Registeel to switch into it. Dugtrio's high Speed also make it an acceptable cleaner late-game against frail offense teams with a bit of chip damage done to them. Dugtrio can even provide further support to a team by using Stealth Rock or Memento to set up Rocks if any other partner can't or helping a set-up sweeper set up easier, respectively. While Dugtrio may be frail and easily revenge killed by Choice Scarf users, the immense support it provides to a team by trapping threats is a very big and important niche right now, especially in this VoltTurn meta where Dugtrio can be brought in rather easily by Volt Switch or U-Turn, so I believe Dugtrio should be brought up to A+ for these awesome positives that it has right now.

 

[ryan]

Alomomola is so good because those things that you guys have listed as reasons why it isn't good don't matter when it can just come in on the things that it walls, Wish, and then pivot out to the appropriate check/counter. Just build your team in a way that you don't get fucked over by common Alomomola switch-ins (i.e. bring an answer to Venusaur and shit) and you're fine. Not having Heal Bell for Toxic and being susceptible to Taunt aren't important because you come in and pivot back out 90% of the time anyways. If you're using Alomomola strictly to wall Pokemon, you aren't using it properly.

You can literally throw Alomomola on any team and it just gets better. I support putting it in S.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

You're missing the point. S Rank Pokémon should also be versatile threats capable of being used on most teams. Flygon - can run physical, special, offensive and defensive sets. Virizion - can be a physical or special sweeper, and thus it has very few guaranteed counters. Venusaur - can run offensive and defensive sets, with both having solid niches over its rivals. Alomomola can only be a Wish passer - it is a very good Wish passer, probably the best in the tier, but that's all it can do. On top of that it's also set up fodder for Pokémon like Virizion, Sub BU Gallade, Sub BU Braviary, CroTomb and to a lesser extent Calm Mind Slowking. Alomomola's a great Pokémon, but it's not S Rank.

 

[phantom]

You're missing the point. S Rank Pokémon should also be versatile threats capable of being used on most teams

Not gonna get too involved into the discussion myself, but I'm going to debunk a few myths here before this gets anymore silly:

-S rank threats do not have to be versatile and have many different sets. It does not say that anywhere.
-Take Mega Steelix as an example which was placed in S, suspected, and banned with just one set.
-Lastly, Alomomola isn't regulated to heavily defensive teams and can indeed fit on a variety of teams.
-Reason Alomomola can work on certain offense is b/c it handles a lot of anti-offense threats effortlessly, such as Sneasel, Flygon, Scarf Fighting-types and allows such teams to hold off other Pokemon that perform well against offensive teams, such as Fletchinder and Jolteon due to the fact that Alomomola can frequently Wish pass to their checks, while having the ability to provide Healing Wish support to teammates difficult to Wish pass to like Mega Glalie and Sneasel.

 

[Miyami~~]

You're missing the point. S Rank Pokémon should also be versatile threats capable of being used on most teams. Flygon - can run physical, special, offensive and defensive sets. Virizion - can be a physical or special sweeper, and thus it has very few guaranteed counters. Venusaur - can run offensive and defensive sets, with both having solid niches over its rivals. Alomomola can only be a Wish passer - it is a very good Wish passer, probably the best in the tier, but that's all it can do. On top of that it's also set up fodder for Pokémon like Virizion, Sub BU Gallade, Sub BU Braviary, CroTomb and to a lesser extent Calm Mind Slowking. Alomomola's a great Pokémon, but it's not S Rank.

Mega Steelix broke the tier with one set.

Anyways, I support Wish Fish for S. Outside of pairing stupidly well with most bulky staples in the tier, such as Diancie and Registeel, while also sponging resistance for grass types like Venusaur and Virizion, there really isn't a single team that wouldn't say no to wish support, with the possible exception of HO but even that wouldn't mind wish support. Alomomola can fit on any style of play from hard stall to bulky offence, and it sponges hits, knocks items or burns with scald, and passes gigantic wishes. That's all Alomomola does, sure, but that's all it really needs to do to work. If your team can't break Alomomomola, you lose. It's as simple as that.

 

[BuzzkillAmpharos]

A big thing with Alomomola is that it is just such a glue mon and it can fit on many different teams. It is so bulky and coupled with Regenerator that makes it the best wish passer by far in the tier. One of the biggest things about it is that it has ways to get around some of its so called "counters".

For example, the ever praised Magneton. I will tell you from first hand experience, Magneton is not an answer to Alomomola has long as there is a ground type or grass type alive. Since its best set is specs Alomomola scouts that out with protects and goes out into the counter of Magneton. Its one true counter is offensive Venusaur, which clean OHKOs the fish with Leaf Storm. And truthfully, it has trouble with grass types like Virizion, assuming it is Lum or Special, and the rare Roselia. Yes, Alomomola is absolute set up fodder for some mons, specifically Sub CM Meloetta or Sub Bulk Up Braviary. However, it nullifies this weakness through its support. The one thing that makes Alomomola even better is that it pairs so well with mons like the ever so splashable Flygon.

I think the big thing is that Alomomola makes mons that get worn down easily like Flygon, Escavlier, Granbull, Houndoom, and Scrafty completely better because with the huge wishes from Alomomola they really don't feel that problem. Sometimes shaky checks turn into reliable ones thanks to Alomomola. Flygon can now handle things like Emboar much better with wishes from Alomomola healing it up all match.

Hence, when I'm teambuilding I look at mons like Flygon, Venusaur, and Virizion and automatically say,"Hey, I need to get something to deal with those mons." I also think of Alomomola right when I start teambuilding. You need an answer to it. It's essential to have something that beats Alomomola on your team, so at least then you can stop those gigantic wishes from being passed around to every counter the opponent has for your team.

Alomomola is quite simply put a force in the meta game that eases the strain on Pokemon to counter other Pokemon. It pairs so well with Registeel and other fearsome walls in the tier that quite simply do not have recovery outside of Rest. And it has made pivots even better in this meta game just because it supports the team so well and while doing that can spread around toxics. No other mon can do that, and that is invaluable to any play style and team. Alomomola fits the mold of an S rank if I have ever seen one. Thus, it should move to S.

 

[Don Honchkrorleone]

Alomomola is probably the strongest Pokémon in RU rn with the possible example of Venusaur. It just needs three damn moves to do its job, and God how wonderfully it does that. Wish+Protect grants extra lifespan to any Pokémon on your team unless you want to sack them for some reason. Scald is Scald, making Alomomola a real cock to switch into unless you have Water Absorb or Rest (the argument that "just go to pokémon that won't mind burn" is bs since ALL pokémon that can be burn will REALLY mind the stupid burn unless maybe Ursaring and Drifblim because of the collateral damage that nullifies Leftovers). Alomomola doesn't need Toxic unless you really want to beat dem Water Absorbers but can't fit a Grass-type (move) on your team for some reason. Alomomola can use Knock Off to stop Meloetta from SubCMing (unless it wants to lose the Leftovers as Knock Off always breaks the sub if fish is Impish) or screwing up with Magneton/Roselia/Trevenant, be used in HO/Offense with Healing Wish, or be an even bigger dick and use Mirror Coat. The fact that Alomomola stops almost all physical pokémon (it can stop Virizion if it loses the Lum as it can be Scald bait), has great synergy with both defensive Pokémon (a lot mentioned above) and offensive (Mega Camerupt, just about every Ground and/or Electric, and the a lot mentioned Virizion), forces Dugtrio and Flygon and co to run Toxic as mentioned above while being basically the sole reason Mega Glalie has to use f***ing Freeze-Dry (I'd rather just use Spikes on Slowking and/or kaboom on Blastoise after spiking), and if feeling threatened by a set-up can just switch out to the appropriate counter while HEALING itself, coupled with several arguments posted above about playstyles seem enough to raise it up to S Rank.

Speaking on a Water-Type that people don't give enough credit for:

Omastar from C+ to B-
The weird lack of offensive Water-types in RU causes players to not really give a shit about any powerful Water while teambuilding (and probably what keeps Clawitzer from being lower on the VR), usually with Venusaur/Virizion/Tangrowth and Alomomola/Slowking/Blastoise/Seismitoad being the answer to the possibility the latter ones may be used at all. Omastar is different. Once it comes on something it can force out it basically Shell Smashes to a gg. It only needs Hydro Pump/Ice Beam/HP Grass to O/2HKO everything in the tier. Its Rock typing also makes it one of a few speed-boosting sweepers who don't fear Fletchinder (as in Acro does not much damage and WoW doesn't affect its sweeping capacities although bur damage isn't much appreciated. Besides SS (both meanings actually but idk if anyone uses Swift Swim), Omastar is also a good suicide lead that can kinda mess with the premier Defogger due to Ice Beam AND the possibility Weak Armor was activated before. Too bad for the Twitch meme, Omastar can't really set up on everything, though the number it can force out for a sweep is fairly sizeable (or people stay o their damn Seismitoads ad eat an HP Grass). Still, I think Omastar should not be on the same rank as garbage like Eelektross and Golbat (neither does Jynx but that is for another occasion) as it's still a menace to unprepared teams, especially when the "Scald checks" are weakened enough.

And yeah Aggron to B+ because Rock smash hurts a lot and Aggron has the coverage for those who resist (Aqua Tail, Low Kick, Ice Punch, etc).

 

[Lord Death Man]

I'm totally for an Omastar rise. While life orb smash sets are slightly outclassed before boosting by Clawitzer, they make up for it by not playing prediction mindgames constantly and by having an actually useful defensive typing, letting it be a very solid check to Fletchinder as mentioned before, while also letting it deter choice locked emboar away from Flare Blitz in a way clawitzer can not (its 2hko'd after rocks), while sort of answering subbu braviary if rocks aren't up (u break sub with ice beam, they use bb, you're faster and 2hko with ice beam, +1 bb vs -1 bb does 50%, i could have done this wrong). It can smash on quite a few threats, especially if it's running Shuca berry, and grab a weak armor boost in the process. It's got more phys def than Scrafty so chople might be an option too. Its defensive typing does leave it with a ton of weaknesses, but I feel that for the most part those weaknesses aren't overwhelmingly common on the mons it will try to set up on. Omastar is also nice in that, vs teams it will never clean again, it can often act as a early/mid game breaker that grabs a key kill, often versus a team's bulky water or grass type.

I generally think Omastar has minimal issues setting up when placed on a well-built team, and is a fantastic cleaner when used properly. I think it's easier to fit on a team than anything else in C+ bar maybe Mawile, and is woefully underprepared for by many players. However, Omastar often relies on something else dying to come in cleanly, because it needs almost all of its HP to live common attacks aimed at it, which makes me feel that B- is a good fit at this time, rather than higher.

white herb sucks and sash is lame.

shouts Ryoma Nagare for talking about it in the RU room, brah

 

[MrAldo]

Gotta second the Omastar nomination. I love this mon, really potent offensive threat with the combination of shell smash + weak armor cause basically nothing outspeeds a +3 omastar and at +2 with a timid nature omastar outspeeds most relevant scarfers like medicham while taking advantage of scarf flygon with the proper resist berry (shuca berry is what makes it good) plus scarf drapion not being able to do that much substantial damage to it. It is definitely the best offensive water type right now imo (although thats not saying much honestly) so unlike clawitzer and samurott it has means to compensate for its initial lackluster speed to be a threat to bulky and offensive teams alike. It is yet to disappoint me and it can be quite easy to support (spikes, grass resists like drapion, the usual), so yeah I support a rise to B-, even B cause I feel it is better that some stuff there.

No comment on alomomola, literally never use it, I think isnt S material but dont have the means to counteract the argument so it is whatever honestly.

Braviary is a monster. It is crazy how this Pokemon can actually 1v1 sturdy flying resists like diancie so easily and some other flying resists except for like magneton and other really niche stuff like aurorus are just shaky against this thing. Sub bulk up is such a consistent set, and on a metagame where dugtrio is everywhere (fuckin hell) this mon just gets better. It doesnt even need dugtrio support since life orb variants can blown away its own checks and what not. Crazy mon that just gets better and better. Solid A rank to me.

Please dont drop Emboar. I honestly believe this mon is still really good and solid A material. Scarf emboar has decreased in popularity and general effectiveness but it adds as an important checks to extremely annoying offensive threats like sneasel which is really annoying to cover otherwise (like seriously, bitchy ass mon) and still having a solid speed tier going over dugtrio which is extremely relevant now. Life orb emboar is a fucking monster, it ends up killing itself but damn, it could kill half a team in the process. Dugtrio cant even trap it thanks to life orb sucker punch KOing it so isnt a liability against it and Expert Belt has really nice luring potential to get rid of some of its checks, mainly blastoise after some prior damage. Feel people should explore more about this mon besides the scarf set, which Im responsible to still spam it (but for good reason, trust me) cause the other sets are as fantastic (not defensive tho, that shit is B at best). Keep it A rank imo.

 

[ryan]

Alomomola is still a centerpiece of the metagame but isn't as splashable as Flygon, Can't solo the last 4 mons of most teams like Venusaur, and isn't nearly as threatening as Virizion.

ya it is, ya it can, ya it is; here's one of my ru ssnl games where it basically solos from team preview
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-394990679

 

[aurora]

Alomomola should absolutely move up to S due to its ability to potently wall a large amount of the tier, punish switch-ins with any of Scald, Knock Off, or Toxic, act as an excellent defensive pivot by scouting out switch-ins such as Magneton with Protect while healing itself for free, and function as by far the best Wish passer in the RU metagame. These boons make it a good fit on the majority of playstyles and, thus, splashable enough for S rank.

I'm also supporting an Omastar rise. I've recently been using both the suicide lead and Shell Smash sets, and I've been fairly impressed. The suicide lead set can actually beat Flygon, cheese teams with Weak Armor boosts, and packs just enough power to do some damage if it absolutely must before fainting. Meanwhile, the Shell Smash set functions as an excellent switch-in to Fletchinder and Emboar Choice-locked into Flare Blitz, allowing it to freely set up on them or capitalise on the switch it might force by throwing out an attack. I detest White Herb Omastar, as I find its power even after a Shell Smash quite underwhelming; I think Life Orb is the way to go. Of course, the hyper offensive builds Suicide Lead Omastar fits into still aren't that great, and Omastar's somewhat polarising defensive typing and awful unboosted Speed tier can make it difficult for it to come in against offensive teams. However, as those above me have said, Omastar outguns offensive Water-types such as Samurott and Clawitzer in a lot of ways, such as its ability to actually boost its Speed, and, thus, should be moved up to reflect this.

Gallade should drop. It really doesn't have much over Medicham besides Knock Off and Justified. It lacks the raw power of Medicham, especially if it is running Swords Dance and decides to use Lum Berry. Its subpar defensive typing and dreadful physical bulk makes it difficult to bring in, and the fact that Choice Scarf Gallade has no reason to exist thanks to Medicham means that Gallade finds offensive squads much more irritating to deal with due to its low Speed and no way of boosting it.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

What you said about Gallade is true - however, in my opinion its niche lies in its Bulk Up set, which can destroy more defensive teams once the opposing Fairy type is down. It can also run a really good Assault Vest set - it packs more power and is much faster than Slowking.
As for Alomomola, I'm really not seeing it. Let's look through the S and A Ranked mons to see what it can in fact wall:

Hide

S

Flygon - walls defensive sets, but Choice Band can still 2HKO after Stealth Rock with Outrage
Venusaur - counters Mola
Virizion - Special set counters Mola, physical set has to watch out for Scald burns if it's not running Lum Berry

A

Diancie - walls defensive set, CM set uses it as set up fodder
Mega Glalie - 2HKOes with Freeze Dry after rocks
Medicham - Life Orb set 2HKOes with High Jump Kick, Scarf set can cripple it by Tricking away the Scarf (HJK still 2HKOes after Rocks)
Meloetta - Choice Specs 2HKOes with Hyper Voice, SubCM uses it as set up fodder, offensive Calm Mind 2HKOes at +1
Sigilyph - Loses if it's not running Energy Ball, however Calm Mind set uses it as set up fodder
Slowking - Slowking loses
Sneasel - Sneasel loses
Blastoise - Blastoise wins if it packs Toxic and Refresh, otherwise Alomomola wins
Drapion - Can SD in it's face and 2HKO with Poison Jab, Almomola has to hope for 2 Scald burns
Dugtrio - Dugtrio loses
Emboar - Expert Belt Wild Charge 2HKOes, Scarf set loses though
Fletchinder - +2 Acrobatics 2HKOes most of the time, while Mola's Scald won't OHKO. Wins if both are bought in at the same time
Magneton - Magneton easily smashes it
Registeel - Registeel can cripple it with Toxic, and while Mola will still likely win it'll probably be left too weak to wall much afterwards
Rhyperior - Mola walls the defensive set, but Choice Band 2HKOes with Earthquake and if Rhyperior is running max speed (which it should IMO), Mola will be slower as well. Even if Rhyperior has no bulk investment, Scald doesn't OHKO
Aerodactyl - Mola walls it
Braviary - Sub BU uses it as set up fodder, Choice Band 2HKOes, Sky Plate's a 2HKO with Rocks down. Mola walls the Scarf set though
Mega Camerupt - Takes massive damage from Earth Power and hates Toxic, but can still force Camerupt out
Delphox - Calm Mind set 2HKOes with a +1 Psychic or Grass Knot, Scarf set can Trick it its Scarf
Escavalier - Mola walls the Assault Vest set, but Choice Band 2HKOes and SD set can use it as set up fodder
Hitmonlee - Life Orb 2HKOes; Choice Scarf 2HKOes after Rocks
Hoopa - Life Orb Shadow Ball 2HKOes after Rocks
Jellicent - Can Taunt Mola and stall it out with Will-O-Wisp
Sawk - 2HKOes with Close Combat
Spiritomb - Walls the trapper set, CM set uses it as set up fodder
Tangrowth - counters Mola

So out of the 29 Pokémon currently in S or A Rank, Alomomola can reliably wall or force out 5 of them. Most of the tier's bulky boosters can use it as set up fodder, and its lack of offensive presence makes it dead weight if it gets Taunted.

 

[Sweep]

What you said about Gallade is true - however, in my opinion its niche lies in its Bulk Up set, which can destroy more defensive teams once the opposing Fairy type is down. It can also run a really good Assault Vest set - it packs more power and is much faster than Slowking.
As for Alomomola, I'm really not seeing it. Let's look through the S and A Ranked mons to see what it can in fact wall:

Hide

S

Flygon - walls defensive sets, but Choice Band can still 2HKO after Stealth Rock with Outrage
Venusaur - counters Mola
Virizion - Special set counters Mola, physical set has to watch out for Scald burns if it's not running Lum Berry

A

Diancie - walls defensive set, CM set uses it as set up fodder
Mega Glalie - 2HKOes with Freeze Dry after rocks
Medicham - Life Orb set 2HKOes with High Jump Kick, Scarf set can cripple it by Tricking away the Scarf (HJK still 2HKOes after Rocks)
Meloetta - Choice Specs 2HKOes with Hyper Voice, SubCM uses it as set up fodder, offensive Calm Mind 2HKOes at +1
Sigilyph - Loses if it's not running Energy Ball, however Calm Mind set uses it as set up fodder
Slowking - Slowking loses
Sneasel - Sneasel loses
Blastoise - Blastoise wins if it packs Toxic and Refresh, otherwise Alomomola wins
Drapion - Can SD in it's face and 2HKO with Poison Jab, Almomola has to hope for 2 Scald burns
Dugtrio - Dugtrio loses
Emboar - Expert Belt Wild Charge 2HKOes, Scarf set loses though
Fletchinder - +2 Acrobatics 2HKOes most of the time, while Mola's Scald won't OHKO. Wins if both are bought in at the same time
Magneton - Magneton easily smashes it
Registeel - Registeel can cripple it with Toxic, and while Mola will still likely win it'll probably be left too weak to wall much afterwards
Rhyperior - Mola walls the defensive set, but Choice Band 2HKOes with Earthquake and if Rhyperior is running max speed (which it should IMO), Mola will be slower as well. Even if Rhyperior has no bulk investment, Scald doesn't OHKO
Aerodactyl - Mola walls it
Braviary - Sub BU uses it as set up fodder, Choice Band 2HKOes, Sky Plate's a 2HKO with Rocks down. Mola walls the Scarf set though
Mega Camerupt - Takes massive damage from Earth Power and hates Toxic, but can still force Camerupt out
Delphox - Calm Mind set 2HKOes with a +1 Psychic or Grass Knot, Scarf set can Trick it its Scarf
Escavalier - Mola walls the Assault Vest set, but Choice Band 2HKOes and SD set can use it as set up fodder
Hitmonlee - Life Orb 2HKOes; Choice Scarf 2HKOes after Rocks
Hoopa - Life Orb Shadow Ball 2HKOes after Rocks
Jellicent - Can Taunt Mola and stall it out with Will-O-Wisp
Sawk - 2HKOes with Close Combat
Spiritomb - Walls the trapper set, CM set uses it as set up fodder
Tangrowth - counters Mola

So out of the 29 Pokémon currently in S or A Rank, Alomomola can reliably wall or force out 5 of them. Most of the tier's bulky boosters can use it as set up fodder, and its lack of offensive presence makes it dead weight if it gets Taunted.

There is literally no reason to run Assault Vest Gallade; unlike Slowking (which is a shady comparison but I will roll with it) it does not have the defensive typing nor the ability to take repeated weaker special attacks. In other words, it will get worn out too quickly to be of much use as a pivot, and the lack of a boosting move like Swords Dance or Bulk Up (the main reason to use it over Medicham in the first place) is a major detriment to the set. I agree Bulk Up Gallade is good though.

As for Alomomola, the great thing about it is that it comes in on the Pokemon it can wall and passes gigantic wishes to its teammates, essentially restoring them to full health. It would probably be broken if it hard countered more of the Pokemon on your list. Also, not acknowledging Alomomola as a Mega Glalie check because Freeze Dry can 2HKO after SR (IF you predict the switch) is silly. Alomomola is one of the best Mega Glalie answers in RU :/. It is unquestionably a solid check to Pokemon such as Fletchinder and Flygon as well. When you said Alomomola can "wall or force out 5" of the Pokemon you listed, you are essentially listing Pokemon Alomomola counters, not checks. In practice, it is an effective check to almost half that list,

BTW it doesn't switch into Registeel or Spiritomb to "wall" them, it uses them to pass the aforementioned huge wishes.

 

[Thatwackycruton]

ya it is, ya it can, ya it is; here's one of my ru ssnl games where it basically solos from team preview
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-394990679

Okay, I totally understand that yes, Mola will in fact move up now due to the huge amount of support it's gotten, but I can't really not reply to this one. Obviously, I'm walking right into a "Well, that's just centralization because of Mola" argument here, but that team lacked a single reliable mola answer from the get go. Not trying to back Miltankmilk becuase I know that he's good, but that team seriously doesn't have a single, solitary Alomomola answer. No, Hoopa does not count as one. It's OHKOed by a potential Knock Off and can barely 2HKO between Wish and lefties recovery. I should have used the term "Pressuring" instead of "Threatening" in the last sentence, as Mola, as good as it is at passing Wishes, will still often hand over the flow of the game to the opposing team. Alomomola is not as splashable as Flygon. I'll fight this one to hell and back, but Flygon fits on absolutely every playstyle, whereas Alomomola fits on stall and balance. My point of it "soloing the last four mons" was mostly in reference to the fact that there's no way Mola is muscling past most of its stops. I most referencing Venusaur here, as even a burned, knocked off Venusaur is still easily beating Alomomola. I'm gonna stop beating a dead horse at this point though, so sure, Mola can move to S.

 

[EonX]

Alright, my turn to have fun with this now that I"m back from a convention:

Alomomola: I've been on the fence about this one. On the one hand, it is quite easily one of the faces of balance teams. If you're using a balance or bulky offense team, you're using Mola or Slowking as your bulky Water. That's all there is to it. The only reason you wouldn't is if you're ass weak to entry hazards and can't fit Flygon for whatever reason. Alomomola is generally very easy to fit onto a team because it's weaknesses can be covered by Pokemon that can synergize well with it. It pairs up well with stuff like Registeel, Weezing, and Diancie, and all happen to cover most of Alomomola's weaknesses. So what are Alomomola's weaknesses? Well, unfortunately, it's pretty vulnerable to 2 of the 3 best Pokemon in the tier right now in Venusaur and Virizion. It also isn't a fan of Mega Glalie Spike teams rising in usage since it's forced out by the threat of a Freeze-Dry and hates the Spikes cutting into Regenerator recovery. So what does all this mean? The few disadvantages it has are quite unfortunate, but the simple fact of the matter is that Alomomola will find its way onto most bulky-ish teams in spite of these drawbacks simply because of how much it provides for a team. An all-purpose scout pivot, Wish passer, and general annoyer with Scald + Knock Off / Toxic. So, even though Alomomola struggles with some of the very best Pokemon in the tier, I feel that it adds enough to a team that it should rise to S rank. It's one of the faces of balance / bulky offense teams in spite of being weak to three of the best Pokemon in the tier (Venusaur, Virizion, Mega Glalie) and all of them are just one Scald burn away from being crippled or heavily pressured.

Spiritomb: Mega Steelix invalidated a lot of its checks and competition, so I'm ok with this. Although Spiritomb can still checkmate Psychic-types with Sucker Punch + Pursuit, it isn't as good of a Pursuit user as it was in previous metas. Aerodactyl is much more viable and can fit Pursuit in its last slot to not only trap fleeing Psychic-types, but also fill a role as a late-game cleaner. Escavalier is much more threatening offensively due to its much higher Attack stat and is able to still put most Psychic-types in an unfavorable situation. Sneasel has the Speed Spiritomb wishes it had and maintains the Dark-typing Spiritomb has. Spiritomb even suffers as a spinblocker as Blastoise will almost always beat it 1v1 whereas Hoopa, Trevenant, and Rotom are much better spinblockers on offensive teams because of their matchup vs. Blastoise. Obviously, Spiritomb still provides role compression by combining the Pursuit trapper and spinblocker roles into one, but it just isn't nearly as good as it was a couple of months ago. B might be a little too far atm, but I feel a drop to B+ is warranted.

Aggron: I'm a little hesitant on this one. Being 4x weak to Ground in a meta where Dugtrio is gaining a lot of traction isn't too desirable for a wallbreaker to me. Basically means it's only getting one KO vs any Dugtrio team. Being 4x weak to Fighting is also kind of sucky considering how solid Medicham, Hitmonlee, and some other Fighting-types are. It has shit Special Defense like Rhyperior does, but unlike Rhyperior, it also has a subpar HP stat. The Steel-typing also isn't quite as useful as it once was considering Fairy-types are losing viability for the most part and the two that are still decent (Diancie and Granbull) have coverage moves at their disposal to threaten Aggron with. Now, why am I bringing all of this up? It's because I just feel Rhyperior does what Aggron wants to do, only much better. Rhyeprior has much higher HP to somewhat circumvent poor Special Defense while also having much higher Attack, a better secondary STAB, and only marginally lower Speed. Rhyperior just does the hard-hitting Rock-type role better than Aggron right now since it isn't completely a liability vs Dugtrio (even CB Dugtrio needs around 35% chip damage on Rhyperior to guarantee the KO on 0 / 4 Rhyperior) has Solid Rock to makes the Fighting weakness somewhat bearable, and the much more useful secondary STAB to smack around Registeel + Mola teams that tend to be extremely common atm. I don't think Aggron is outright bad, but I do feel that Rhyperior just has the better typing, ability, and movepool for the current state of the meta. If you're in love with CB Aggron (which I completely understand) I promise that you won't be disappointed with CB Rhyperior. In exchange for 5 base Speed, you'll get a better secondary STAB, more power, more overall bulk, and a better ability (imo) For now, I'd say keep Aggron in B rank

Togetic: Poor Togetic. We all thought it might have a chance to get better with the Mega Steelix ban, but this just hasn't been the case. Togetic's main problem is the fact that both Magneton and Escavalier benefited greatly from Mega Lix and Ttrum leaving and they both just abuse Togetic. It invites most top Pokemon in for relatively little cost, and even though it's easily the best Flygon counter in the tier, it just doesn't have any kind of power to threaten most Pokemon Flygon is used with (Magneton, Mola, Registeel, Slowking, etc.) Compare this with Granbull and Diancie, and Togetic just doesn't have a spot on most teams. Granbull and Diancie also provide cleric support and while they may not reliable recovery, it's not like you'll be hurting to throw Alomomola on the team to fix this issue for them. Togetic would be top tier if this were just about cuteness, but the meta just is really mean to it right now. Drop to C+

Emboar: It's hard for me not to be biased on Emboar as I love the EBelt set in the current meta, but here we go. So at this point, I don't see the point in running Scarf Emboar. I haven't really seen a reason to use it ever since Durant got banned as that was the main thing it had going for it over other Scarfers. Medicham and Hitmonlee are better Fighting-type Scarfers and Delphox works better as a Fire-type Scarfer. I guess you could use it if you need both STABs on your Scarfer, but I just don't feel it's worth it. Choice Band has issues as well. Can't reliably use Sucker Punch to circumvent Speed issues and Alomomola + fat Rock- / Steel-type means it can almost never safely spam a move. However, what is worth using right now is EBelt Emboar. Being able to switch moves is great so that you can catch that Mola / Slowking with Wild Charge, force them to switch to their Steel- or Rock-type, and then blast them with the proper STAB on the next turn. Running Expert Belt also allows Emboar to run Sucker Punch much more reliably to circumvent the Speed issues. However, even with Expert Belt, Emboar has some core issues that it simply can't get past. Simply put, there are better slow wallbreakers to abuse paralysis support right now (Rhyperior, Medicham, Exploud) Even with proper prediction against Slowking and Alomomola, Emboar has to deal with Regenerator forcing it to predict properly twice in order to break through them whereas the likes of Rhyperior and Exploud can just click their STAB moves against them. The high HP is kind of just there for recoil damage rather than actually soaking up some hits. It's still a good Pokemon, but its core issues are brought to light more than in previous metas. So, drop it to A-, but please stop using Scarf. Unless I"m missing something, it doesn't really have a place right now.

Refraining from Dugtrio / Braviary talk. Ik both are pretty good atm, but I haven't been able to build with either of them in the new meta. Hooray for busy June schedule -_-

 

[Drangonn.]

This has been pissing me off for a while now, but spamming shit like "no offensive prescence" and "taunt bait" isn't a way to get something dropped/risen. In taunt's case, many users are physical attackers that straight up lose to mola, examples being Spiritomb and Aerodactyl. Admittedly it is setup fodder for a lot of mons, but these flaws are not unique to mola alone and are shared by very many pokemon. Citing basic flaws about a pokemon is not enough to justify arguments pertaining to said pokemon. Yes, alomomola is weak to greass and electric! WOW! I never knew that! Why don't I spam vr with this wonderful new informantion as an "argument" to somehow justify a larger point!

now to debunk these lovely arguments:

vulnerable to top meta threats like venusaur and magneton etc: What isn't vulnerable to these threats? Pointing out a mon's weaknesses isn't a magical argument that's sure to work wonders. There's more than simple flaws to be stated here. THINK, PEOPLE.

team support: This one makes literally no fucking sense and it actually concerns me that people think this. Alomomola does not NEED support, it provides it. Type synergy is a basic factor of consideration in teambuilding and does not count as team support. It's only common sense to pack checks to top metagame threats, after all, and that doesn't count either.

if you're counting 1v1, don't always assume mola is switching in. most times people go to mola and pivot out to a resist bc it's so obvious to determine bandgon or specs clawitzer or whatnot. Alomomola is not a premier "wall", it is a great pivot that can also act as a dedicated wall/wish passer if need be. This here also discounts the "lack of versatility", as mola can easily adapt to fit all of these roles in a pinch. Regenerator is also just so key in this, as it just lets it shake off any damage and just pivot so well.

This pivoting capability is what makes mola do damn good. It's arguably one of the key factors to the infamous RegiMola core that so many balance/bo teams find themselves reverting back to nowadays. Mola pivots, regi walls. Use wish when low. repeat. The defensive utility alomomola offers is absolutely insane and usable on a multitude of playstyles. As such, I support an Alomomola rise to S rank.

yeah, yeah, you can post however much you want about magneton, venu, etc, but they've always been popular, and these threats are more than capable of being dealt with. Simply spamming these sorts of "logical" tidbits achieves nothing.

 

[eden]

I want to second Braviary to A;

I've been trying out semistall for a while, and Braviary sets up quite comfortably on most things that fit here; except things like Rhyperior(which gets stalled out of Stone Edge PP) or things like CroRegisteel, which manages to check things like SD Escavalier(for which some teams rely on alo scald burns). It also performs well versus balances considering that the better check to Braviary is the SubCM set, which is rare compared to the cleric+SR one, which again just gets stalled out of Diamond Storm pretty easily.

The thing is that even versus things that on paper should beat SubBU Brav like CroRegisteel, still have a surprising chance of losing to it. Assuming a 1 vs 1 situation, once both are at +6

+6 0 Atk Registeel Iron Head vs. +6 252 HP / 0 Def Braviary: 87-103 (21.5 - 25.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

Which means that Registeel can't break Braviary's substitutes(usually). Registeel has 24 PP for iron head, and via sleep talk on average you'll get another 5 or so. So SubBu Braviary can actually attempt to burn through Registeel's attacking PP, without risking a crit, except when it has to roost to recover health; while giving itself a fair crack at crit'ing Registeel over the course of 24 chances, which is actually a really high chance.

Considering that the chance to crit is 6.25; the chances of not critting are 93.75; The chance of not critting over the course of 24 turns is

1 - ((0.9365)^24)

So basically by removing the chances of a critical hit never happening over 24 turns, we get the chances of it happening at least once.

which comes out to ~78%. So if it can break past something that stall can reliably use to blanket check things like SD Escavalier, then it can be extended to understand that SubBu Braviary can break past the less sturdy flying resists present in the tier far more easily. A lot of balances in general tend to be weak to SubBU brav once it gets going, and the stalls opting to run the seismic toss variant of registeel I feel open themselves up to a few other things.

+6 0 Atk Braviary Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel on a critical hit: 323-381 (88.7 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO.

Relevant because mid roll crit+reg low-mid ko's

Just my take on it!

EDIT: Dugtrio should probably be moved up to A+ at this point; I even see it/have used it on stall, and it hasn't disappointed me yet. The risk/reward while trapping has become even worse in the tier now that MLix(which couldn't be comfortably trapper unless it was extremely damaged); this means that things like Diancie/Registeel are the favored normal and flying type resists in the tier now, teams now have to prepare for dugtrio noticably, and have to make sure that they don't have more than one or two members vulnerable to trapping; which is probably why at some point shed shell will become a viable item choice on Registeel. The dugtrio usage spike has definitely affected the tier as it's played, and the vr's should reflect that. For balance and stall Dugtrio is both a tool, to remove obstacles in the way of sweeps of certain pokemon(like braviary and CM Diancie), as well as pain in so far it can snipe valuable parts of the team easily with counter play involving...doing things like keeping a Venusaur in on Fletchinder, predicting a Dugtrio to come in and trap Diancie. I don't think I have to elaborate on how warped a situation that is/how loaded in one sides favor it is.

Houndoom: I haven't seen this in quite a while, but i don't think with the turn the meta has taken; that it ever gets a chance to easily Nasty Plot which is its most dangerous set. granted its one of the better sigi checks in the tier, but I wouldn't be against seeing this move down to B. Especially if its most common set is prepared for quite easily, and is checked by balance staples like Diancie, and even slightly rarer things like sp.def flygon; while on offense things like Emboar check it quite decently, and so on. The fact that it offers little defensive utility, in a tier where either volt turn or bulkier balance builds also counts against it i think.