Lower Tiers RU Viability Rankings Thread

[Kyora]

Absol: B+ >>> A

This Pokemon is excellent, it has an excellent strike force, possesses several sets all very effective, Lo Attacker's set which can make holes enormous, Swords Dancer which once placed puts an enormous pressure to the opponent and the set of scarf which is an excellent one pursuit trapper, and exactly thanks to this inconstancy, Absol can create mindgames at the opponent rather crazy, the opponent can say to himself that Absol is scarf, thus he goes switcher but if Absol is Swords Dancer, it takes place and puts an enormous pressure, that can be mutual, thus the opponent can imagine that Absol is Swords Dancer he is not going to let him take place but Absol is in fact scarf and antagonizes opposite Pokémon, frankly it is very underestimated Pokémon, which puts a very big pressure to the opponent. Absol should move up at A

 

[Kyuzeth]

Absol: B+ >>> A

This Pokemon is excellent, it has an excellent strike force, possesses several sets all very effective, Lo Attacker's set which can make holes enormous, Swords Dancer which once placed puts an enormous pressure to the opponent and the set of scarf which is an excellent one pursuit trapper, and exactly thanks to this inconstancy, Absol can create mindgames at the opponent rather crazy, the opponent can say to himself that Absol is scarf, thus he goes switcher but if Absol is Swords Dancer, it takes place and puts an enormous pressure, that can be mutual, thus the opponent can imagine that Absol is Swords Dancer he is not going to let him take place but Absol is in fact scarf and antagonizes opposite Pokémon, frankly it is very underestimated Pokémon, which puts a very big pressure to the opponent. Absol should move up at A

I think what holds Absol back from a higher rank is the combination of its frailty and middling Speed. Base 75 certainly isn't an impressive Speed benchmark, not with a large array of faster threats, and even though it's got Sucker Punch to patch that up, it's still stuck with an unfortunate Speed stat. On top of that, 65/60/60 defensive stats make it pretty damn frail.

Absol can be a scary wallbreaker when played right, but I believe there's too much risk involved, which is why IMO it should stay B+.

 

[Take Azelfie]

I kind of don't agree with Absol going up. It's great but its SD sets are generally super hard to set up since Absol is about as bulky as a paper clip and as a Pursuit trapper is usually eclipsed by Drapion who has a good secondary typing for checking other things and Sneasel who is just fast and outspeeds the relevant Pursuit weak Pokemon. The only real + to using Scarf Absol (discounting surprise factor) is probably Iron Tail which lures Diancie. Also most people don't think of Choice Scarf Absol as popular and they are probably more scared of a Sucker Punch hence why they end up switching out. Also nothing has really changed to make it rise (arguably its worse right now with Granbull being a popular choice on teams.)

 

[lighthouses]

Swords dance absol holds a very important niche being the only setup sweeper able to knock mole out clean with a neutral hit after one turn of setup(as far as i know). sucker punch is also very hard to play against for more offensive teams which usually will rely on viriz/drap or something among those lines for checking it. granbulls a problem yea but the fact that absol is able to pressure mola and you will never see granbull paired with aromatisse means that being able to knock its lefties for a decent chunk of dmg makes granbull durability way smaller, not to mention you can pair absol with something like scarf hitmonlee and greatly pressure teams that rely on granbull too much.

 

[Kyora]

Absol is an excellent Late Game Sweeper, he puts a very big pressure in defensive core as famous RegiMola after a SD and if it is Lum Berry, it is not the first burn of Scald that is going to make everything, its version scarf is an underestimated enough version which trap kill very easily Pokemon as Meloetta or Sigyliph besides knocking extremely hardly, that have no Drapion Scarf.... Sneasel can be better it is on coach he has a better speed, Double more interesting Stab but the set Lo Attacker really have no same role as Farfuret who is Revenge Killler Killler/Trapper/Cleaner , Absol LO Attacker will especially be a big wallbreaker... To be honest this Pokemon is so Underestimated.

 

[Miyami~~]

Absol is an excellent Late Game Sweeper, he puts a very big pressure in defensive core as famous RegiMola after a SD and if it is Lum Berry, it is not the first burn of Scald that is going to make everything, its version scarf is an underestimated enough version which trap kill very easily Pokemon as Meloetta or Sigyliph besides knocking extremely hardly, that have no Drapion Scarf.... Sneasel can be better it is on coach he has a better speed, Double more interesting Stab but the set Lo Attacker really have no same role as Farfuret who is Revenge Killler Killler/Trapper/Cleaner , Absol LO Attacker will especially be a big wallbreaker... To be honest this Pokemon is so Underestimated.

The problem with Absol is that while it's powerful, it's hilariously frail enough that even uninvested attacks pose a threat, and it just isn't fast enough to do its job all the time. Yes, I know Sucker Punch is incredible, but it is abusable and if your opponent knows what you're trying to do it's fairly easy to work around on top of Sucker Punch losing to other forms of priority. Unfortunately, Absol relies on mindgames to be able to clean teams with faster Pokémon and will often fail as a late-game sweeper regardless of that. Scarf isn't good, it lacks the power necessary to be a cleaner and SD gives your opponent a free turn to hit (and probably KO) absol, meaning it can't reliably do its job as a Swords Dance user because of how fragile it is, you have to hard read a switch or send it out on something extremely passive.

Absol is great, and that's why it's in B+. However, Absol has some glaring flaws in its gameplan that prevents it from doing what it needs to do all the time, and the only real reason to use it is for an SD user who doesn't die to Dugtrio. However, with Dugtrio's (likely) impending ban, that leaves Virizion as the better choice, due to it being faster and more defensive, meaning it doesn't rely on Sucker Punch mindgames and can set up more reliably, despite being weaker. For these reasons, I believe Absol should remain B+.

 

[Punchshroom]

Swords dance absol holds a very important niche being the only setup sweeper able to knock mole out clean with a neutral hit after one turn of setup(as far as i know).

Yeah I don't know where you got the "clean OHKO" part from, because even Calm Alomos don't go down in one hit all of the time, and Bold ones aren't KOed at all.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Absol Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 120 HP / 136 Def Alomomola: 464-547 (92.6 - 109.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Absol Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 120 HP / 136+ Def Alomomola: 421-497 (84 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

The honor of being the only setup sweeper able to OHKO Alomo neutrally after one turn of setup in fact goes to this:

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Gallade Close Combat vs. 120 HP / 136+ Def Alomomola: 507-598 (101.1 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[MemeMeme Island]

Smeargle and Klinklang to C-

Smeargle sticks out like a sore thumb in C+ with the likes of Golbat and Torterra. There is exactly one reason to use it: Sticky Web. Unless you have a REALLY good reason for needing Sticky Web then don't put Smeargle on your team, period. Also other forms of speed control exist, including Baton Pass, and even Trick Room with Bronzong is better IMO, and neither of those forms of speed control can be stopped with the single click of a move.

Klinklang is also super mediocre. Like, just use Virizion. Shift Gear sounds cool on paper but other Pokemon are capable of reaching that power level without Shift Gear, and Klinklang has poor coverage to make use of it. Also Gear Grind, its main form of attacking, is basically a dice roll, you either do decent damage or the exact opposite. I think the fact that it can afford to run Substitute give it a small niche but this is still a terrible Pokemon that most people will pick something else that's better over it.

 

[-Tsunami-]

Klinklang is also super mediocre. Like, just use Virizion. Shift Gear sounds cool on paper but other Pokemon are capable of reaching that power level without Shift Gear, and Klinklang has poor coverage to make use of it. Also Gear Grind, its main form of attacking, is basically a dice roll, you either do decent damage or the exact opposite. I think the fact that it can afford to run Substitute give it a small niche but this is still a terrible Pokemon that most people will pick something else that's better over it.

I don't actually disagree with your post because I think both of those Pokemon are ass, but what exactly did you mean by this bolded statement...like it literally makes no sense LOL

 

[Josh]

I don't actually disagree with your post because I think both of those Pokemon are ass, but what exactly did you mean by this bolded statement...like it literally makes no sense LOL

You either hit a type weak to steel or a type that resists it, genius

 

[phantom]

updates:

Quagsire added to C
Dugtrio removed

Rankings have also been overhauled:

Updates

Medicham down to A
Meloetta down to A
Magneton down to A-
Hoopa down to B+
Camerupt (mega) up to A
Jellicent down to B+
Aromatisse down to C+
Abomasnow down to C+
Aggron down to C+
Hitmontop down to C
Jynx down to C-
Linoone Unranked
Rotom-F Unranked
Klinklang down to C-
Archeops down to C-
Articuno down to C-
Aurorus up to C+
Xatu up to B
Smeargle down to C-
Roselia down to C-
Manectric down to C
Samurott down to C
Shiftry Unranked
Qwilfish down to C
Mesprit down to B-
Eelektross down to C
Pelipper down to C
Skuntank down to C

A few things:

-Above doesn't take into account the recent results of the suspect, but there aren't any major shifts in here that are too influenced by it in the first place. This was mostly done to make the list a bit more accurate.
-Pokemon from S - A- are now ranked in order of viability and not alphabetically. Since the tier is coming to its final stretches, this is probably most appropriate time to do this.
-As per the above, you may not make a nomination post about reordering placements within Pokemon of the same rank; however, you may suggest where something should be placed if you nominate to rise above or down somewhere between the S and A ranks. For example, this is okay: "nominating X to A rank from A- rank between Pokemon Z and Pokemon Y", and this is not okay "Pokemon X in A rank should switch spots with Pokemon Y in A rank".
-This is noted in the OP.

Discussion Points:

-Scrafty up to B
-Vivillon down to B-
-Houndoom up to B+
-Druddigon down to B-
-Spiritomb down to B
-Bronzong up to A-
-Hitmonlee down to A-
-Drapion up to A+
-Samurott Unranked
-Mawile down to C
-Articuno Unranked
-Roselia Unranked

 

[Take Azelfie]

shouldn't there be more discussion on Poliwrath to since it didn't change ranks nor is it on the discussion slate. Or at least edit / post reasoning to why it didn't go up.

B ---> B+
I'm incredibly biased but honestly Houndoom is really flexible in terms of Movepool diversity and utility. Fire Blast + Dark Pulse has pretty good coverage against the tier and that can be backed up by Nasty Plot. Of course the last slot is a toss up between a bunch of things like Pursuit, Sucker Punch, Hidden Power, etc. And of course it has options in its ability as well with Flash Fire being the much more popular one and Unnerve providing some cool tech for KOing right past Colbur Fighting-type switch ins. I've also seen some players experiment with Choice Scarf sets which has a lot of luring potential (much less now that Duggy is gone but still.)

B- ---> B
Even though keeping Rocks off the field can be a pain for something that switches in so often and it barely does anything to Registeel, Scyther is one of the faces of VoltTurn style teams thanks to its incredible speed and powerful U-turns. There isn't really too much to say besides that its fast, splashable on VoltTurn, and has a strong U-turn. It's definitely more on par with B rank then it is B-

 

[MANNAT]

Here are some quick noms that I will edit in more info for when I'm not dead that are based on the recent ban.

to A or A+ rank:
The removal of Dugtrio from the tier is a huge benefit for Magneton because its Choice Specs set is a lot more usable now since you don't risk being trapped for literally nothing every time you click an electric move, not to mention that Magneton can now volt switch around on fatter teams and isn't limited to one kill vs a lot of teams. Additionally, the departure of Dugtrio means that there will be a decline of bulkier teams and therefore specially defensive mons like Registeel as they no longer have a trapper to deal with common breakers like Virizion and Hoopa.

back to S:
With Dugtrio gone, Virizion is once again one of the best Breakers in the tier and it really has an increase in viability since it isn't limited to 1 kill vs fat teams, meaning that Virizion provides significantly more role compression than before and losing one of its biggest constraints means that Virizion is once again a metagame titan, being more than deserving of S rank, as it is once again a metagame defining threat that every team should adequately prepare for, with its ability to muscle past common answers with specific coverage moves and sets. Additionally, Virizion becomes quite a bit more versatile now, being able to run stuff like Life Orb SD and CM, as fat squads will become a lot less common and the immediate power as opposed to Lum letting you set up on Alomomola is really appreciated.

to A+:
With Dugtrio gone, Mega Camerupt can rip fat teams asunder with its absurd wallbreaking prowess, considering its sky-high special attack paired with Sheer Force as it doesn't have to worry about getting a kill. Additionally, considering that "pivoted on by mola and trapped by Dug" isn't a thing anymore, Camerupt will have less bad matchups in general and be able to rip apart teams easier. Obviously it has the same flaws that it had in the pre-dugtrio meta, but it's greatly improved with Dugtrio gone and should move up to A+.

Houndoom and Drapion on the current slate above should also rise since Dugtrio leaving helps them a ton.

 

[feen]

With Dugtrio gone, Drapion has much more freedom to choose its set. Aside from the common Choice Scarf set, Drapion can also run a couple more sets, mainly Choice Band, Lum / Shuca + Swords Dance, and even bulky Spikes can be anticipated in a semi-stall team. The sets that I've mentioned, barring the last one, Drapion is really good at performing that role. Drapion also is a solid Venusaur check (Band and SD), and a Virizion check (Scarf), and it actually takes hits unlike Sneasel. Drapion fulfills a lot of roles in teambuilding: revenge killer, wall breaker, or setup sweeper, and it gets pretty hard for the opponent to predict what set it is. Almost always, Drapion can force out dangerous Pokemon such as Virizion, Sneasel, and weakened Flygon by bluffing Choice Scarf, and not many Pokemon want to switch into Knock Off anyways. Having good matchup against a majority of the Pokemon in A+ and S rank, as well as dealing well versus most bulky Pokemon means Drapion should be A+ rank.

 

[Miyami~~]

Vivillon, unfortunately, suffers under the metagame and should drop to B-. While Vivillon is a great late-game sweeper, it can't really touch rock types unless you forgo one of your STABs for Giga Drain and can't touch steels at all regardless of what move it runs, and Dugtrio isn't around to remove them anymore. It's extremely frail and reliant on Focus sash to be able to get set up, which means it loses to priority (Bar Sucker which it can play around with Sleep Powder), and this is further exacerbated by its rocks weakness, meaning it often needs hazards off the field in order for it to have a chance at sweeping most of the time. Great once it gets set up, but can be more trouble than it's worth, so it should drop to B-.

 

[Umbra Soul]

Druddigon - I don't think Druddigon should fall from it's B ranking, it is honestly pretty reflective of what a B pokemon should be. Given it doesn't have outstanding defenses, just passable enough for a singular Dragon type, and it's speed tier is bad, but offensively it's 120 base attack, access to Sheer Force, a diverse Physical movepool, and the ability to speed creep over a variety of common bulky Pokemon in the tier and threaten with potential 2HKOs, it can create a very special wildcard slot against common cores. Not to mention that the bulky sets that can set up Rocks, spread paralysis with Glare, and phaze others with Dragon Tail can give general Pokemon problems when invested more into its bulk a hard time, especially with how it can just absorb general hits from Pokemon that rely on STAB Fire, Grass, Water, or Electric moves. It is still very successful at what it does, makes for a solid choice in the metagame, and honestly Offensive Druddigon is just a hoot to use lol, especially with how it can generally force switches and just ruin something due to a small bit of unpredictability.

Scrafty - I think Scrafty is deserving of a rise to the B ranking. While it doesn't have the immediate power that the other Fighting types of the tier have, access to Shed Skin definitely gives it a niche role over all the other Fighting types as it doesn't mind Scald burns as much, and gives the option to run Rest to keep it going in the long run. DD let's it outspeed the majority of the tier that is not running a Choice Scarf, and giving it just an inch can be downright devastating especially against the passive Pokemon and the powerhouses that have poor defenses in the tier. It's high defenses allow it to live more hits than other Fighting counterparts on both sides giving it better chances to set up, as well force other Pokemon out and basically requires a Fairy type to fully stop it. The downsides to Scrafty is like other fighting types, Aromatisse, Diancie, and Granbull can be a pain for it, especially because Scrafty relies on set up to function in most team roles, utility attacks that's Super Effective against Dark or Fighting types isn't necessarily an uncommon thing for RU Pokemon, and reliance on Shed Skin to actually active can be hurt when it decides it doesn't want to activate. Otherwise Scrafty carves a very nice niche out for it that's different from all the other fighting types in the tier, which can lead to winning games from an early point, something that mons like Medicham, Sawk, and Gallade aren't necessarily "guaranteed" to do, despite their power and breaking ability.

 

[col49]

i think we could probably stand to cut the fat, pull scrafty to b+ (maybe worth a-, tho i'm not for making such a huge push outright, the meta is shifting). it's been finding itself sneaking into and "just winning" reasonably high-profile games (1 , 2), stymies the consistency of the conventional water / steel / fight resist / pursuit on a very consistent basis (with the exception alomomola + granbull, which i would consider to be probably the only method of developing a team that's wholly scrafty-proof), etc. doesn't tend to carry a particularly high opportunity cost either, even offers a fair amount of midgame utility for something that is primarily a sweeper.


i'd also be super down for torterra to rise; sd synth is pretty dang consistent set in this metagame, being both able to punch through a variety of defensive backbones (exception facets include weezing, zong, gourgeist, and golbat, many of which fall victim to issues of passivity / pursuit vulnerability / sr weaks), isn't scared off or rk'ed effectively by conventional pursuers sans sneasel, and retains the defensive utility of drap / electric check. cb + boosting psychics seems potent, and that variation saw a fair amount of success via some rozes' teams, tho i cannot speak of it personally. point being, worth more than c ranks

 

[JuanchoTacorta]

Delphox was A- during Dugtrio meta? lul

Inb4 niche nomination

From C+ to B-: Dugtrio is gone and Lanturn can Volt Switch without fearing to be trapped. Being able to compress the bulky water role with performing as a Magneton check, and its splashability overall should warrant a rise imo. (gonna explain what Lanturn do just in case).It's not a momentum drainer vs Grass types due to Volt Switch and a drop on 26 IVs in speed gets a slow Volt Switch in Alomomola, which is very huge considering how Mola got suspected because of its ability of gaining momentum. It could even perform as a Braviary check if it runs Discharge on it and Heal Bell support is really appreciated when it doesn't come from a Fairy type. Nothing else to say bar it's fat and a good fire check (duh)

 

[Miyami~~]

Torterra is one of the best grass-types in the tier and deserves a rise to B-. While it's not on the level of, say, Virizion, Torterra can pick apart common defensive cores with minimal investment after a boost:

+2 0+ Atk Torterra Wood Hammer vs. 120 HP / 136+ Def Alomomola: 570-672 (113.7 - 134.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 0+ Atk Torterra Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 356-422 (97.8 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+2 24+ Atk Torterra Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 366-432 (100.5 - 118.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 0+ Atk Torterra Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Diancie: 356-422 (117.1 - 138.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 24+ Atk Torterra Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 64+ Def Uxie: 216-255 (61 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Lives but can't switch in and fails to KO back)

Because it needs less investment to take out common cores with ease, it's free to invest in bulk, so bulk + reliable recovery allows Torterra to keep taking hits and fire back in what's sure to be a 2HKO if it can hit something at least neutrally. It also completely stops Electrics like Jolteon (Barring a read, though HP ice is only a 48.8% chance to OHKO) or Magneton and forces them out (Unless you switch into Jolt on HP ice). Outside of being a Fearsome Wallbreaker with SD Synthesis, it can also run a solid Choice Band set to catch some of its switch-ins off guard with coverage (Such as Stone Edge for flying types and even Crunch for Bronzong, something that normally walls it completely. Toxic is also an option to hit its checks.).

Torterra gets its niche in being a bulky set-up mon or wallbreaker that doesn't need much investment to start swinging hard due to its high-power, somewhat spammable STAB moves or EdgeQuake, and as thus can invest in bulk to keep it alive longer and allow it to shrug off hits better than its competition, in combination with its reliable recovery. I believe it to be better than the rest of C+ for these reasons and think a rise to B- would be warranted.

 

[ManOfMany]

Why isn't Virizion in S yet?

It’s the best offensive pokemon in the tier. The Swords Dance set alone gets a million opportunities to set up and is extremely fast, meaning you have to rely on Sneasel, Fletchinder, or Choice Scarfers to revenge kill it. It breaks through the best core in the meta RegiMola with absolute ease, and if you want to build a bulky balance you basically have a 50-50 chance of countering it, making it incredibly centralizing. Weezing and bulky Venusaur just die to Lum + Zen Headbutt, Sigilyph and Xatu can’t take Stone Edge. The only reliable counter to SD is Granbull, but not like that doesn’t get worn down. Offensive teams struggle even more vs Virizion since it can revenge kill so many pokemon with its high speed tier, and cannot be trapped anymore, so a core of Virizion + a reliable Sneasel/Fletch/Scarf Drapion would be incredibly hard to deal with. In addition, Virizion is more versatile than SD + lum. Calm Mind is still very scary and so is SD + Life Orb due to that extra power. Idk about other sets but I’m sure Taunt + Synth + Toxic + Sacred Sword and even Choice Band are perfectly great too..

tldr: great offenses, fantastic bulk, quality win condition, good revenge killer, and unpredictable. Put this in S (or ban it)

 

[phantom]

updates:

Drapion moved to A+, under Registeel
Houndoom up up to B+
Scrafty up to B
Torterra up to B-

Reasoning:

- In the past few months, Drapion has proven to be one of the most prolific Pokemon in the tier. Drapion moved up due to its ability to fit on a wide variety of teams, excel on those teams, fulfill unique roles as a sturdy and fast Pursuit trapper via its CS set, sweep teams with its Swords Dance set, all the while providing great defensive utility in a Psychic check and offensive utility in a Knock Off spammer. While the removal of Dugtrio has granted Drapion flexibility in its Swords Dance set, which is one of the main reasons it moved up, certain posts alluding to the viability of defensive Drapion sets aren't entirely correct. Just want to clarify that even with the removal of Dugtrio, defensive Drapion is a pretty sub-par set, and was only conceived in XY in order to better combat Reuniclus and Cresselia. Let's leave a relic of the past where it belongs... Drapion's general offensive utility and newfound flexibility with the lack of Dugtrio is the real testament to its viability.

- While Houndoom still struggles in this metagame, the tier being generally slow combined with Dugtrio's departure has made its Nasty Plot sets a lot easier to use. Unfortunately, it still struggles with either Flygon and Diancie and is incapable of luring both, but with the rising popularity of Slowking builds as well as Houndoom's ability to dismantle common defensive cores such as Alomomola/Venusaur/Registeel, it's unique niche as a Fire-type setup sweeper capable of pressuring all the conventional bulky Water/Steel cores is enough to move up to B+.

- Scrafty is probably one of the biggest benefactors of Dugtrio's ban. A lot of the defensive Pokemon Scrafty is capable of setting up on with its Dragon Dance set are more common than ever, and unlike other Fighting-types, Scrafty's ability to exploit passive defensive Pokemon gives it a distinguishable niche. While the Speed isn't useful to run down offense per se, the Speed Scrafty gains when boosting doesn't make it as easy to revenge kill as another breaker it competes with, Malamar. Scrafty is still relatively easy to stop due to its lack of power and Speed even at +1, leaving it incapable of one-shotting certain tanks such as Mega Camerupt without a boosting item, while its Speed and lack of resists makes it prone to sustaining a little too much chip damage as it sets up to the point of being revenge killed by most Choice Scarf users pretty easily. That said, the metagame has never been kinder to it and I could see Scrafty moving up to B+, but I would like to see some more discussion on it first.

- Torterra has been gaining a lot of traction for its ability to single-handedly crack open defensive teams on its own. While it competes with a lot of other wallbreakers, its ability to sustain itself over longer periods of time and immediately apply pressure with its amazing dual STAB combo makes it standout for a slight rise. I think this pokemon has a lot of untapped potential in general as a unique Stealth Rock setter that beats Blastoise, has reliable recovery, and can sustain itself over long periods. This could be due for an additional rise in the future.

Now for the things that didn't move up:

- Hoo boy, the Magneton hype is waaay overblown. Magneton was far from a stellar Pokemon with Dugtrio in the tier, but it's not suddenly A rank material much less A+ with its status as one-trick pony still remaining in place. While Magneton may be a dangerous wallbreaker on paper, it's usually pretty useless vs Water-type + Ground cores, especially if the Water-type happens to be the most common one in the tier and carries Protect. Its reliance on Choice Specs to deal the damage it needs to limits it severely and makes it quite easy to play around. Additionally, aside from the Flying resist, which is nowhere near as useful with Fletchinder taking one of the biggest nosedives in viability in a long time, Magneton, for being a Pokemon with relatively average bulk and minimal Speed, contributes little to a team's overall defensive synergy. The ban of Dugtrio wasn't entirely a boon for Magneton either, as some of its strongest checks such as Registeel and Mega Camerupt got even better. That's not to say that it's bad, Sturdy Choice Specs helps remedy a lot of its issue, but in order for it to excel, it still requires quite a bit of team support and isn't at the level of other A ranks, nor is it even the best Pokemon in A-.

- In the Dugtrio meta, Virizion basically fell off the face of the earth and was hardly a top pick. Around then, it was like an A- Pokemon. With Dugtrio gone, it may appear like Virizion is back to its old glory days of S rank like it was in the Mega Steelix meta, but quite a lot has changed since then that prevents it from reaching S rank once more. A lot of the Pokemon that Mega Steelix, and to a lesser extent Dugtrio, held down are pretty common now and many of them can defeat/rk Virizion pretty easily. The rising popularity of defensive Venusaur, Xatu, Uxie, Sneasel, Choice Scarf Drapion, and Fairy-types such as Granbull makes Virizion relatively easy to hold down. Teams also have access to a wider variety of niche Pokemon that have all seen a fair amount of usage in seasonal and RU open that can be used to help hold Virizion down, such as Scyther, Garbodor, and Gourgeist-XL. While Virizion is capable of choosing what it can beat, most defensive teams will have a pair of Pokemon capable of defeating it irregardless of the coverage move it chooses. I don't consider CM sets a factor here since it's largely inferior to its Swords Dance sets due to the fact that it just can't attain the power it needs after one boost + it has to rely on Focus Blast for its Fighting STAB of all the things.. In general, its lack of immediate fire power and propensity to be lured makes it all the more manageable. In short, in the time Virizion was 'absent' from the meta, the tier adapted to it. That said, it's still the easiest win condition to build around and packs great defensive utility for an offensive Pokemon, which is why it's rightfully at the top of A+, but it likely won't climb back to S rank anytime soon.

- Scyther requires pretty extensive support due to its 4x SR weakness and is one of the few Pokemon that actually has suffered in viability with Dugtrio gone and no longer able to support it. Its Speed tier also unfortunately falls just shy of Virizion, which is relevant for Stone Edge variants, and it lacks the power to break through defensive teams due to its low BP STABs. Its role on Volt-Turn teams is still notable, but Scyther is not due for a rise given how the meta has shifted out of its favor and the fact that Scyther builds tend to be cookie-cutter due to the specific handful of teammates it requires.

Needs more discussion:

- Lanturn is pretty bizarre. On one hand, it's a bulky Water with Heal Bell that can maintain momentum vs Venusaur builds, but on the other hand, it's a bulky Water that's incapable of checking Ground-types and overlaps with the premier Wish passer in the tier, which is especially bad for a Pokemon that can't sustain itself. Its defensive niche atm isn't particularly significant, but it is very unique. Kind of unsure if this should move up or not.

Discussion points:

Lanturn up to B- (see Lanturn Paragraph)

Scrafty up to B+ (see Scrafty paragraph)

Absol up to A-

I've taken note of the Absol discussion going on before and would like to bring it back. Absol's Swords Dance set is extremely powerful right now. While it has difficulty setting up, its propensity to force switches allows it to gain a lot of opportunities to set up and win games at the drop of a hat. Swords Dance / Knock Off / Superpower / Sucker Punch is the specific Swords Dance variant I'm referring to. Aside from Fairy-types, which are easy enough to handle when paired with Venusaur, this Absol set is capable of cleaving through entire teams on its own. Unlike other wallbreakers, its sheer power and access to STAB Sucker Punch makes its matchup vs faster teams less of an issue and it does not need to set up to present itself as an immediate threat.

Braviary down to A-

A lot of the teams Braviary is meant to break have adapted and found new ways to take it down via slight adjustments. The rising popularity of Tbolt Registeel and Toxic Diancie makes Braviary a less reliable win condition. The loss of Dugtrio doesn't help it either seeing as how it lost a partner that supported it in working around the very Pokemon that adapted to it. Now that it requires more heavy support to work, a slight bump to a lower rank might be warranted.

Flechinder down to B+

Similar to Braviary, a lot of the tier is working against it atm. Flying resists are everywhere, all of its checks are extremely common and good, and its niche against offense is no longer as good due to Volt-Turn offense featuring Magneton being the most common type of offensive archetype. There's really not much to say here other than the fact that for a Pokemon that requires so much support, the tier is basically built to beat it.

 

[Miyami~~]

Lanturn is a Unique pick for a Bulky Water that is actually pretty effective. For starters, it's a bulky water that's an electric immunity, which means it fulfills a unique role on the team (+ the best Magneton counter in the tier) as a bulky pivot and blanket check to a lot of types (Fire, Water, Electric, Flying). Additionally, it can drop to 26 Speed IVs to get the slow Volt Switch on Mola and has the choice of running Heal Bell to cure the team of pesky statuses like burns or even running a RestTalk set for reliable recovery and status curing. B- is a better fit for such a unique Pokémon.

On the other hand...

Fletchinder has dropped like a Rock. While it ultimately shreds weakened fast offence builds, most offensive teams are running Magneton which Fletch isn't breaking unless it runs both Speed + Overheat (Not even sure if an Overheat with 0Spa is going to kill) and defensive teams are too bulky for Fletchinder to hope to break, along with various Steel, Rock, and Electric types finding their way onto more and more teams, meaning every team is going to have a Fletch answer without even trying. Additionally, being 4x weak to Rocks means it absolutely needs Hazards off the field at all times in order for it to even hope to do its job. B+ for sure, I could honestly see it drop further.

 

[green gadgets]

I wouldn't say that Fletchinder should be B+ I think it should be rising tbh. It's not so dead against defensive teams as people say. Once they have a Mon out which is too passive it can grab one or two Swords Dances and start sweeping mid to late game. Of course you have to deal with it checks if you didn't had to it was broken. Fletchinder is also a good Fighting Resist and sponge Knock Offs all day. Will-O Wisp is not necessary, Taunt can be used against more defensive teams or U-Turn on a predicted switch out of its checks and counters forcing the opponnent to switch against and take additional hazard damage. Tailwind while niche could be used for more HO type of teams.

 

[Hilomilo]

"Fletchinder sponges knock offs all day."

176+ Atk Escavalier Knock Off vs. 152 HP / 76 Def Fletchinder: 109-129 (35.9 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Absol Knock Off vs. 152 HP / 76 Def Fletchinder: 218-257 (71.9 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Yeah sorry, but no it does not, especially when rocks are down. On paper, Fletch seems like it could be an amazing pokemon worthy of rising, but overall has NOT responded well to metagame trends as of late. The Dugtrio ban left Fletchinder with a ton of things it can't handle on its own, like scarf Drapion, Diancie, Mega Camerupt, etc. and its harder than ever for the thing to get a swords dance under its belt considering Registeel has taken to running thunderbolt lately and Uxie can just paralyze it or put it to sleep if it tries setting up. Stealth rocks are also a huge problem, since Fletch's nasty weakness to them absolutely requires for a method of hazard removal on your team, which is getting harder to find in this meta considering the tier's general lack of both spinners and defoggers. Overall, Fletchinder hasn't adapted to much of anything lately and is surely in the position to drop, and just noting that to say it doesn't need WoW is asinine, since crippling physical attackers on the switch and allowing itself to roost without losing all the health it recovered the same turn are part of what make the thing so notable.

On another note, I'd like to Nominate Escavalier to A+

. Between Escav's SD, CB and AV sets, its able to easily 1v1 EVERY mon in both S and A+ (bar maybe Alomomola), as well as consistently contribute to bulky offense and balance, which are two play styles that have benefitted a lot from Dugtrio's ban. Escavalier is able to provide teams with fantastic offensive and defensive synergy and really only has its lack of speed and susceptibility to fire type attacks to worry about right now, considering its offensive AND defensive synergy with things like Seismitoad, Scrafty, Flygon and more is absolutely brilliant. Overall, this things ability to wall so many threats while dealing a huge amount of damage in return has gotten even more valuable and is enough in my book for the thing to rise up to A+, since imo its more on par with things like Drapion and Mega Glalie than it is with stuff like Hitmonlee, Slowking and Braviary (which I'm on the fence about dropping).

 

[Miyami~~]

"Fletchinder sponges knock offs all day."

176+ Atk Escavalier Knock Off vs. 152 HP / 76 Def Fletchinder: 109-129 (35.9 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Absol Knock Off vs. 152 HP / 76 Def Fletchinder: 218-257 (71.9 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Yeah sorry, but no it does not, especially when rocks are down. On paper, Fletch seems like it could be an amazing pokemon worthy of rising, but overall has NOT responded well to metagame trends as of late. The Dugtrio ban left Fletchinder with a ton of things it can't handle on its own, like scarf Drapion, Diancie, Mega Camerupt, etc. and its harder than ever for the thing to get a swords dance under its belt considering Registeel has taken to running thunderbolt lately and Uxie can just paralyze it or put it to sleep if it tries setting up. Stealth rocks are also a huge problem, since Fletch's nasty weakness to them absolutely requires for a method of hazard removal on your team, which is getting harder to find in this meta considering the tier's general lack of both spinners and defoggers. Overall, Fletchinder hasn't adapted to much of anything lately and is surely in the position to drop, and just noting that to say it doesn't need WoW is asinine, since crippling physical attackers on the switch and allowing itself to roost without losing all the health it recovered the same turn are part of what make the thing so notable.

On another note, I'd like to Nominate Escavalier to A+

. Between Escav's SD, CB and AV sets, its able to easily 1v1 EVERY mon in both S and A+ (bar maybe Alomomola), as well as consistently contribute to bulky offense and balance, which are two play styles that have benefitted a lot from Dugtrio's ban. Escavalier is able to provide teams with fantastic offensive and defensive synergy and really only has its lack of speed and susceptibility to fire type attacks to worry about right now, considering its offensive AND defensive synergy with things like Seismitoad, Scrafty, Flygon and more is absolutely brilliant. Overall, this things ability to wall so many threats while dealing a huge amount of damage in return has gotten even more valuable and is enough in my book for the thing to rise up to A+, since imo its more on par with things like Drapion and Mega Glalie than it is with stuff like Hitmonlee, Slowking and Braviary (which I'm on the fence about dropping).

Not that I disagree with what you're saying, but Flygon, a Defogger, is probably the most splashable mon in the meta.