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Resources RU Viability Rankings

Discussion in 'RarelyUsed' started by phantom, Apr 26, 2017.

  1. phantom

    phantom
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    [​IMG]
    (Art By Bummer)

    Welcome to the official RU Viability Rankings thread. In this thread, we as a community will rank every usable Pokemon into ranks. You're encouraged to civilly post your thoughts and opinions on the various Pokemon that are usable in RU and what rank they should fall under. The general idea of the topic is to rank each RU Pokemon under "rankings" that go in descending order. Keep in mind that this thread is simply a reference list and should not be treated as anything more than that.

    New Pokemon RANK:
    S RANK:

    [​IMG]Nidoqueen
    [​IMG]Salazzle
    [​IMG]Zoroark

    A RANK:

    A+:

    [​IMG]Abomasnow-Mega
    [​IMG]Chesnaught
    [​IMG]Doublade
    [​IMG]Feraligatr
    [​IMG]Flygon
    [​IMG]Registeel
    [​IMG]Snorlax

    A:

    [​IMG]Bewear
    [​IMG]Dragalge
    [​IMG]Cresselia
    [​IMG]Gligar
    [​IMG]Milotic
    [​IMG]Porygon2
    [​IMG]Roserade
    [​IMG]Shaymin
    [​IMG]Umbreon
    [​IMG]Zygarde-10%

    A-:

    [​IMG]Decidueye
    [​IMG]Durant
    [​IMG]Escavalier
    [​IMG]Gardevoir
    [​IMG]Gigalith
    [​IMG]Kommo-o
    [​IMG]Meloetta
    [​IMG]Moltres
    [​IMG]Pangoro
    [​IMG]Rhyperior

    B RANK

    B+:

    [​IMG]Cloyster
    [​IMG]Froslass
    [​IMG]Glalie-Mega
    [​IMG]Honchkrow
    [​IMG]Machamp
    [​IMG]Ninetales
    [​IMG]Quagsire
    [​IMG]Swellow
    [​IMG]Toxicroak
    [​IMG]Torkoal
    [​IMG]Tyrantrum
    [​IMG]Venusaur
    [​IMG]Virizion

    B:

    [​IMG]Araquanid
    [​IMG]Bronzong
    [​IMG]Goodra
    [​IMG]Hoopa
    [​IMG]Leafeon
    [​IMG]Mismagius
    [​IMG]Rotom-C
    [​IMG]Stoutland
    [​IMG]Xatu
    [​IMG] Yanmega

    B-:

    [​IMG]
    Ampharos-Mega
    [​IMG]Bruxish
    [​IMG]Comfey
    [​IMG]Cryogonal
    [​IMG]Diancie
    [​IMG]Espeon
    [​IMG]Florges
    [​IMG]Jellicent
    [​IMG]Rotom-H
    [​IMG]Slowbro
    [​IMG]Slowking

    C RANK

    C+:

    [​IMG]Aerodactyl
    [​IMG]Banette-Mega
    [​IMG]Camerupt-Mega
    [​IMG]Dhelmise
    [​IMG]Ferroseed
    [​IMG]Galvantula
    [​IMG]Linoone
    [​IMG]Noivern
    [​IMG]Persian-Alola
    [​IMG]Sableye

    C:

    [​IMG]Charizard
    [​IMG]Cofagrigus
    [​IMG]Minior
    [​IMG]Seismitoad
    [​IMG]Sigilyph
    [​IMG]Sneasel
    [​IMG]Tsareena
    [​IMG]Uxie
    [​IMG]Whimiscott

    C-:

    [​IMG]Donphan
    [​IMG]Drapion
    [​IMG]Golisopod
    [​IMG]Heliolisk
    [​IMG]Jolteon
    [​IMG]Omastar
    [​IMG]Qwilfish
    [​IMG]Shuckle

    D RANK (aka blacklist):

    [​IMG] Blastoise

    RULES:
    • Don't discuss anything in the blacklist. Ever.
    • Avoid one liners and flesh out your post, but remain concise. This helps further the discussion and gives your post more credibility.
    • Do not derail the thread by asking "why did this move up/down". This is a discussion thread and posts like this don't add to the discussion. If you disagree about X Pokemon's placement, nominate it to move up/down. Similarly, do not derail the thread with other simple questions.
    • Should you want to nominate an unranked Pokemon, it will only be ranked if you have at least 3 replays showing the Pokemon being used successfully vs good teams and it must have a distinguishable niche seen in these replays.
    • If something didn't move up in the prior update, don't keep nominating it again and again unless a significant metagame shift occurs.
    • This thread has nothing to do with tiering. Remain civil when posting in this thread.
  2. phantom

    phantom
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    this thread will stay locked until ru is out of beta or whenever ru gets usage stats :}
  3. phantom

    phantom
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    k this is open for discussion now.

    be sure to read the rules before posting
  4. ThatRandomPerson42

    ThatRandomPerson42

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    Charizard C+ to C:

    While Z-Sunny Day is fine, it's still outclassed by fire types like Rotom-H and Salazzle. Even then, it still has to deal with the common water weakness. Also, Stealth Rock isn't exactly nice to it, so you need entry hazard removal support. Also, its mediocre HP and Defense leaves it vulnerable to Stone Edge or Rock Slide from Heracross and Durant.
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2017
    LORD HELIX 65 and Red_GT95 like this.
  5. eifo

    eifo

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    That's not how you use Zard. Z-sunny day isn't a (good) set. The only set is Specs, as its only niche is as a wallbreaker on sun (2hkos the entire tier, ohkos ~90% of the tier).
    So when discussing Zard anything but its role on sun is irrelevant.
  6. Venoxio

    Venoxio

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    RIP Nidoqueen ;-; Now on to my nomination.

    [​IMG] B+ ---> A-

    While this thing is incredibly frail, it decimates everything in this tier and eats it for lunch. The power it packs with Hustle is completely bonkers, and it can boost it even further with its very viable Choice Band set or its Hone Claws set to patch up the Hustle accuracy drop. It 2HKOs almost everything in the tier and can be tailored to beat any of its checks, and its wonderful speed tier lets it accomplish this with ease, being outsped by 4 unboosted mons in the B ranks and higher, and tying with another one. Crunch beats bulky Psychics and Ghosts among other things such as Cresselia, Doublade, and Bronzong. Thunder Fang lets Durant beat Waters such as Milotic, Mantine (also accomplishing an OHKO right off the bat), and Slowbro, while also giving it a super effective move to hit Feraligatr and Moltres with. Other options this thing has are Rock Slide and Superpower, which Rock Slide is an option if you want the OHKO on Moltres, and Superpower hits all steels not named Doublade for big damage. Unless you know a Durant's full movepool, it is not safe to switch in by virtue of its great coverage and sheer power. It also is a great Z-move user whether the move is a coverage Z-move or a Hone Claws boost, and it is nigh unstoppable once it is boosted. Durant's sheer power and ability to hit the entire tier with a hard-hitting move is why I believe it should move up a rank.
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2017
  7. BetaSierraPoster

    BetaSierraPoster

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    Dhelmise B- to C-:

    It is far too slow and takes too much damage doing its job and as a result tends to be dead weight. While it is bulky, the slow speed means it will eat two attacks on the switch-in, and the lack of any kind of recovery really hurts it.
    megabackingengar and Red_GT95 like this.
  8. parr0t

    parr0t

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    C-!! are you serious? Dhelmise is not an extremely niche pick and it has enough qualities to make it worth using on a serious team. If you look at the viability rankings nothing in the C- rank or even the C rank bring nearly as much to the table as dhelmise brings. I could see an argument for dhelmise dropping to C+ being reasonable but dropping 3 ranks just because "it gets worn down easily" is completely absurd.

    edit: typo
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
  9. Randomnick

    Randomnick
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    In my opinion keep Dhelmise in B- is fine, Rapid Spin is an interessting option as a spinner with nice options such as Choice Band.
    While you can argue it's worse than Donphan and Cryogonal as a spinner, I disagree with this, unlike these two, Dhelmise can punish Spinblockers better than Donphan while Cryogonal can't Spin unless you wore down all Ghost-types on the opposing team. Choice Band is also a cool wallbreaker it's STABs (counting Steel) work very well and the most relevant things that can resist it is Houndoom (who won't take hits anyway) and Incineroar, Earthquake have a nice coverage and allow you to 2HKO Registeel (you can't 2HKO with Shadow Claw only, but Registeel can only Toxic you), Gligar can't take Power Whip twice and Roost mean Power Whip have a great chance of OHKOing, being slow and lacking recovery is always a problem but I don't think this is enough to say Dhelmise should go down. B- sounds just so fine for it.
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
  10. LORD HELIX 65

    LORD HELIX 65

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    Donphan From C+ to B+

    Ok, I know this seems like a HUGE rise, but I feel it is justified. Having access to Stealth rocks, rapid spin AND sturdy means you will almost always get up rocks or spin away hazards. It also can counter a handful of select popular pokemon in RU, like Salazzle, Flygon, and Doublade. It also has a colorful movepool with moves ranging from ice shard, to play rough, to seed bomb, which can be used to your advantage if you want to counter a certain threat. It also has a great 120 base attack stat to compliment these unique moves. It also has respectable 90/120/60 bulk. Of course, Donphan's bulk is more centered toward physical defense rather than special defense, which can be a good and bad thing, it's good when you are dealing with popular offensive threats like flygon, snorlax and sharpedo, but isn't so great when dealing with specially offensive threats such as zoroark, reuniclus, and venusaur, So it's not perfect, like any pokemon, but i believe C+ is far too low for Donphan and should be put in B+.
  11. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom Paralysis is slightly less of a devil
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    One thing people fail to realize about Donphan is that Rapid Spin is pretty much the only thing keeping it ranked in the meta, because Donphan offers pretty much no utility over any of the other relevant Ground-types otherwise.

    - Gligar has reliable recovery and more reliable hazard removal, and is Donphan's greatest competition in terms of hazard removal. Gligar's longevity allows it to pull off Stealth Rock + Defog on the same set with little issues despite their counterintuitivity, and also allows it to almost always remove hazards and set them up.
    - Rhyperior has actual resistances to Fire and Normal, which let it actually respond to the likes of Snorlax and Salazzle. Rhyperior is also stronger and has powerful, hard-to-resist dual STABs, and that kind of simplicity vastly outperforms Donphan's quirky offensive movepool.
    - Quagsire pretty much shuts down any of the aforementioned boosting threats that you've mentioned: Salazzle, Flygon, Doublade, Snorlax, even the Calm Mind Electrium Z Reuniclus set are largely helpless before Quag, and Quag can even keep out additional dangerous boosting attackers like Cloyster and Durant that few other Ground-types, much less Pokemon, can fend off.
    - Seismitoad has an amazing typing with great resists and just that right amount of bulk to make use of that typing while not being unsalvageably slow. Toad is difficult to be KOed while having a movepool that can give it favorable matchups against most Stealth Rockers and even certain offensive mons, most notably Feraligatr, making it a good Stealth Rocker in its own right.

    Donphan's niche is being a spinner that thrashes Doublade and can take on a decent amount of Stealth Rockers, and is the reason it's even ranked as high as it is (still just a tad too high, if you ask me). However, its qualities outside of that niche honestly start to fall flat. It half-asses everything that one expects out of a bulky Ground-type because it has no reliable recovery, lackluster resistances, and fairly lacking offensive presence by virtue of not having a strong secondary STAB to back itself up; even Dhelmise has the distinction of being a hazard remover that is not easy to switch into. It also has little room for deviation since Rapid Spin, Earthquake, and Knock Off (against Bronzong, Dhelmise, Mismagius, Mesprit) are all necessary, diminishing the usefulness of its 'expansive movepool'. Sturdy isn't even the most solid advantage Donphan can maintain, since by virtue of it being a hazard remover, Sturdy would be broken unless Donphan makes a hard switch into an opponent's non-damaging attack and have Leftovers heal off Stealth Rock damage at the end of the turn, meaning Donphan is more likely to lose Sturdy than keep it most of the time.

    Tl;dr: Donphan is only really used for Spinning, which it at least isn't terrible at. However, praising it for anything else would be ignoring the great advantages the other Ground-types offer, as well as overlooking the opportunity cost of using Donphan over its Ground-type brethren. Donphan definitely does not warrant a rise over the B- or B rank mons. This is probably just me talking off my high horse at this point, but if Donphan were to somehow leave this meta, one could resort to Sandslash and only see a minor drop in effectiveness, especially since there's no more Nidoqueen for Donphan to snag a T1 advantage against.
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2017
    Muscle K, Yoshizilla315, eht and 22 others like this.
  12. EonX

    EonX One and Only
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    Time to go through some of these:

    Charizard: I feel Zard is fine in C+. It's the premier wallbreaker on Sun teams and although it requires hazard removal and is only useful on Sun, it's the best at what it does on such teams, which is why it fits fine in C+. Very notable niche on one specific team archtype.

    Durant: I can definitely get behind this one. Although HC and all-out attacker sets have already been brought up, I think it's also important to note Durant's Scarf set for being able to outspeed Scarf Heracross and every notable Speed booster aside from weather sweepers and Cloyster. It's also the fastest relevant Scarf user with Shaymin sitting below it at base 100 and the general lack of Fire-types aside from Salazzle (Rotom-H and Moltres are a bit more situational and need to be Scarf to outspeed HC / LO sets) makes Durant a lot easier to fit onto a team than one would think at first. Overall, it's a very strong and underrated sweeper with the ability to wield a Choice Scarf to outspeed a large portion of the boosted metagame. Support for A-.

    Dhelmise: Dhelmise is fine in B- for now. Its main niche is a Choice Band set that, in effect, has 3 STABs to work with thanks to its ability. Its also able to spinblock to a certain extent thanks to "good enough" bulk and its ability to hit Donphan for super effective damage. It's definitely not the first Pokemon I'd pick for a team whether I'm looking for a Ghost- or Grass-type, but I feel it has enough going for it to keep it ahead of the Pokemon in C / C+.

    Agreeing that Donphan should stay where it is in C+. It still has solid matchups against the likes of Rhyperior, Gigalith, and Registeel (key Stealth Rock users) but Gligar has solid matchups on them as well and outclasses Donphan in pretty much every way unless you don't want to get rid of your own entry hazards. Punchshroom kind of already covered everything else noteworthy.
  13. Take Azelfie

    Take Azelfie The rent's cheap
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    [​IMG]
    C+ ---> B-/B

    With the recent shift, I feel Seismitoad is not being overshown as a Stealth Rocker right now and while it is no Nidoqueen, it certainly has some aspects of her that make Seismitoad more considerable right now. First off, it is the only Stealth Rocker that doesn't have to forfeit a Z-Move to beat Gligar right now which is really great considering how much momentum Gligar could suck from your team with any other Stealth Rocker. Seismitoad also has good enough stats and typing to fend itself off against the likes of Doublade and Sharpedo. And while its match-up versus Mantine isn't that bad either when Toad carries Toxic or HP Electric. And of course its typing isn't bad either since it can check mons like Sallazle and Tyrantrum. So while its a jack of all trades sort of mon, it still performs better than it did a while back when Nidowueen was still here and deserves to rise.
  14. Espeonage.

    Espeonage.

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    Yanmega to c+

    Yanmega is simply not a great Pokémon. Its speed boost set has 0 reason to be used. Its tinted lens set, while decently strong and easy to use, is easily walled by mons like registeel and porygon2, requires a lot of support often off very niche Pokémon (yanmega best fits on offense, but offensive hazard removers are all p bad), and is hard to fit on teams. Other pokemon such as swellow and tyrantrum to very similar things (spamming one move) but have notable things which make them mi h better than yanmega, namely more speed and power respectively. All this means yanmega simply doesn't offer enough to a team as you'd would like with a mon that requires so much support, and while b- Pokémon generally have notable niches, such as Persians paring shot and linoones ability to sweep with the right support, yanmega doesn't have that quality which sets it apart from other breakers, so I feel it should drop to c+ instead of b-.

    Edit: Just want to add that with queen leaving, registeel and gigalith have both got better because they lose an omnipresent offensive check, and both wall yanmega.
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2017
    tmacbalanced and Lord Death Man like this.
  15. TheHungrySnorlax

    TheHungrySnorlax

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    While I agree that hazard removal isn't in an ideal state for offensive teams, and that things like gigalith and Regis are on the rise due to nidoqueen's absence, I disagree with the nomination itself. I'd like to address that the Pokémon you listed(along with a few other things like mantine and Florges) are the only switch-ins to the tinted lens set. In fact, Yanmega can potentially burst past registeel and porygon2 with that set after some prior damage due to the formers lack of reliable recovery and the latter's susceptibility to exploitation. The limited number of switch-ins to the specs set is what makes Yanmega so dangerous.

    Regarding the speed boost set, it may not be as good as the tinted lens set, but that certainly does not mean that there is no reason to use it. Yanmega may not have the same level of offense cleaning capabilities sharpedo has, however the set still poses a great threat to offense due to the fact that its checks on that archetype can be easily worn down by teammates. I think Yanmega is fine at b rank, it isn't a top tier Pokémon, but it certainly puts in work a good amount of the time despite its nasty stealth rock weakness.
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
  16. LORD HELIX 65

    LORD HELIX 65

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    I'm gonna cover a few pokemon:
    Machamp From Unranked to C-/C

    Machamp is by no means Meta-defining in RU, and it is generally outclassed by Heracross as well. Despite the fact Machamp may be outclassed and is not nearly as viable in RU as it is in NU, i feel it does have a niche however, and that niche is on sticky web teams. Sticky web teams allow Machamp to make the most of it otherwise mediocre at best speed. A combination of Flame orb, Guts, and a sticky web on the other team can turn machamp into a fearsome wallbreaker, while also making it faster. No guard is also an option, but i personally prefer Guts, because of the attack boost. +1 with an adamant nature lets Machamp OHKO a variety of threats. You can also run an Jolly nature for that extra speed, but adamant is generally better. Unfortunately, hazard removal is common in RU, which allows opponents to remove sticky web with relative ease, and it is simply outclassed by Heracross as stated before, but i still feel being unranked is too harsh for Machamp, and it should be moved up to either C- or C rank imo.

    Snorlax from A+ to S

    Ok, i know this will be VERY controversial, but bare with me. I feel Snorlax is a top tier threat in RU, because it is very, very versatile. It's Curse set can get REALLY ugly fast if the opponent doesn't take care of it fast enough, and can destroy entire teams with relative ease after enough curses are under it's belt. The curse set can also crush several special attackers after a boost like salazzle, noivern, goodra, gardevoir, roserade, and zoroark with return and earthquake, with it's naturally high special defense and attack, the curse set is an excellent set because it boosts Snorlax's average physical bulk and already good attack, and high special defense only compliments this further. After 2 curses, it will hit very, very hard and it's defense stat will be very hard to break through, you're only shot at KOing it before it uses rest is if you have a fast, strong fighting type, like Heracross. Basically the only flaw to the curse set is being super slow (which snorlax already is though) and being weak to stuff like heracross, but the benefits of this set outshine the negatives 10 to 1. In conclusion, this is Snorlax's best set, but there are other viable options, like the Choice band set, which lets it hit other pokemon super hard, and can OHKO viable pokemon like Flygon, Gardevoir, Sharpedo, Shaymin, etc. and is VERY hard to switch into, especially when using Double-edge! All in All, Snorlax has very few flaws right now, and i feel it is capable to be in the S-rank.
    Red_GT95 likes this.
  17. ThatRandomPerson42

    ThatRandomPerson42

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    Just want to remind you that you must have at least 3 replays showing that the unranked Machamp could do in C-/C, according to the VR rules.
  18. Rider

    Rider Amateur subber in need of twitter follows
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    I don't know if you know this, but Heracross is also usable in Sticky Web teams and can even use its Guts Flame Orb set as well. Having a "decent" speed stat with Sticky Web is no real sort of niche. As you mentioned, Heracross already manages to outclass Machamp in most areas. Another wallbreaker that outclasses Machamp woukd be Pangoro, due to its access to STAB Knock Off and Swords Dance. There is really just no reason to rank Machamp when the best you could run with it is probably No Guard Dynamic Punch for the sake of being annoying
    erisia, lightninging, Ajna and 10 others like this.
  19. Thomas_633

    Thomas_633

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    Seeing as we just got it:

    Exploud from unranked to C/C-

    It's going to have to be ranked at some point, and it's got some (limited) talents in RU that deserve recognition imo, even if it's usually outclassed by Swellow. Under webs it hits 352/353 speed against anything that isn't Flygon, Bronzong or Flying type, meaning that it's ahead of every Fighting type bar scarfs, and everyone knows how easy scarf Heracross is to play around if you know what you're doing. It also outspeeds every wall bar NASCAR Cresselia/Gligar without webs. It has an extremely spammable move in Boomburst, but has far better coverage than Swellow, with Fire Blast to OHKO Doublade (something Swellow can't do unless Modest), Ice Beam to beat Noivern/Kommo-o and Shadow Ball to beat Ghosts if you're running Soundproof (yes it's not completely stupid not to run Scrappy) and Surf for Rock types or Focus Blast to have at least a chance of beating Umbreon and Porygon2.

    With Scrappy it has the ability to hit anything in the tier with a 210 power move off 463 SpA, resisted by only two types (and Kommo-o), which you can just press all day long. With Soundproof, it straight no-sells Swellow and OHKO's in return, and only misses out on hitting Hoopa and Mismagius (Doublade doesn't like Boomburst, but you should really hit it with Fire Blast considering Sacred Sword). It also has much better bulk and slightly better special attack than Swellow (60/60/50 for Swellow, 104/63/73 for Exploud and 75 vs 91 SpA respectively, not including Exploud normally being Modest and Swellow Timid) and a lack of Stealth Rock weakness, great for Webs teams that can't Defog for obvious reasons unless they absolutely have to.

    However Exploud is slow without Webs (or TR, haven't tested it) and as such has only a small niche in the metagame (and is slower than Adamant Flame Heracross without them), hence why I'm not suggesting anything higher than C/C- for it. It's almost as fast and much more powerful and bulky than Swellow under webs, but apart from that stay clear due to its lack of Speed.

    Replays:
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-593243887
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-593221364
    (short but he forefitted due to it)
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-593196693
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-593111677
    LORD HELIX 65, parr0t, Plas and 6 others like this.
  20. phantom

    phantom
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    nah, it doesn't have to be. unless it's ru by usage or actually good enough, it's not getting ranked. there's no obligation to rank bl3 mons that aren't viable.
  21. Randomnick

    Randomnick
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    I disagree with this for some reasons, first: you can't properly pressure Offense with Exploud since you are too slow to do so, and with so much Normal resists there to stop Swellow, you will fail to SPAM Boomburst against slower teams (also Sticky Web aren't good in RU and easy to Defog / Spin away with options such as Dhelmise, Gligar and Mantine), if you want something that is stronger than Swellow, you have a fastest option in Kommo-o, with a very spammable Clanging Scales you 2HKO most of the tier anyway, a STAB Focus Blast that can beat most of SpD Mons in the tier and a cool covearge while even Modest you still outspeed a lot of things Exploud can't such as Honchkrow, you also get very useful resists being able to take mons such as Rotom-Heat it also have a better bulk (I think Yanmega is also a cool option over Exploud anyway). You brought replays, but I have to point out some stuff:
    Your first replay is against a team with Manectric, Sceptile and Leftovers Feraligatr.
    In your last replay, instead of Spinning Donphan literally chose being beat when it clicked Knock Off in Exploud. Also what in your replays couldn't be done by something like Kommo-o, Swellow or even Yanmega?
    If you have Soundproof you can't hit Ghosts, even harder to spam it's STAB unlike Kommo-o, and you will be 2HKOed after Rocks most of the time by Air Slash with Exploud anyway while Kommo-o will avoid this OHKO most of the time after Rocks. While Exploud is very strong and look awesome on paper it fail to do what Swellow and Kommo-o can do very well most of the time, and even with Webs Exploud isn't that good, I'd say it's a subpar mon in a bad style so it's still very bad since you still won't outspeed some things like Salazzle (who fails to OHKO Kommo-o most of the time even after Rocks and is slower than Swellow, but will OHKO Exploud always with Rocks). So I disagree that Exploud should be ranked since there's no reason to run it over something Faster that also have a very spammable move (you can even include Yanmega in this, who actually have a good speed and is also very hard to stop actually).
    Gorechomp, Red_GT95, eifo and 3 others like this.
  22. Thomas_633

    Thomas_633

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    Disclaimer: I don't know how to quote people properly so this might not work.


    Just straight up: Saying webs are bad in RU is complete and total crap.

    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-593541581
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-593116283

    Stuff like Feraligatr, Kommo-O, Hoopa, Heracross and so on all are improved massively by them, and Galvantula 2HKO's Gligar and Dhelmise, and Donphan is easy to wear down.

    Exploud has coverage that isn't total crap, unlike Yanmega and Swellow (seriously Swellow has Heat Wave and that's it, at least Yanmega gets Shadow Ball and Giga Drain). Kommo-o has exactly the same problems, coupled with less powerful moves, a defensive typing that's arguably worse (personally I think they're about even, but Kommo-o is far easier to exploit as every fighting type takes massive damage from Boomburst on the way in) and both its moves having huge drawbacks as well as an immunity (Clanging Scales has a defense drop and Kommo isn't that fast, and Focus Blast is inaccurate as all hell). Salazzle also only OHKO's by using up its Z move too. Yanmega can't spam its moves because Bug Buzz is resisted by so much shit, and even with Tinted Lens a resisted hit does less than a neutral one as well as having less power and mentioned rock weakness. I'm not saying its brilliant, I'm saying that it has a small niche.
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2017
    Red_GT95 likes this.
  23. EonX

    EonX One and Only
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    Exploud: Ok, I don't feel Exploud should be ranked, but there's a couple of aspects I haven't seen brought up. The primary one being that it's a slow wallbreaker that offers NO DEFENSIVE SYNERGY whatsoever to the team its on. This was its biggest issue in ORAS and while nothing has changed in that regard, its competition has. Back in ORAS, Exploud not only only had to compete with Chatot for Boomburst spam, but it also didn't have to contend with Gigalith. Yes, the same Pokemon that hard counters Swellow pretty easily stops Exploud. You're forced to run Focus Blast and Fire Blast to nail down Gigalith and Escavalier. On the other hand, Swellow can simply U-turn out of Gigalith to build momentum rather than risking Focus Blast while Heat Wave is more accurate than Fire Blast (only slightly, but every little bit helps) against Escavalier. Swellow's much higher Speed tier is very crucial as this allows it to outspeed aforementioned wallbreakers and even revenge kill sweepers such as Durant, which Exploud can't do. As if this weren't enough, there are simply better Pokemon to use on Sticky Web. Overall, Sticky Web teams generally consist of Webs user, Rocker, Hoopa, 2-3 abusers. In a tier with Heracross, Goodra, Honchkrow, and Feraligatr, it's very difficult to justify using Exploud on such teams. And these are the only teams that give Exploud something close to the Speed that Swellow has.

    As for the arguments in the last post Thomas_633 , there's a few flaws. First and foremost, you forget Kommo-o has access to Soundproof, an ability that will completely negate damage from Boomburst (sound move) It has very usable bulk, usable resistances to Dark, Grass, Water, and Electric and while the Clanging Scales defense drop can be annoying at times, it's typically choiced. Like with any other slower Choiced attacker, you're getting forced out after a kill most times anyway. No big advantage for Exploud there.
    Yanmega only really wishes it had coverage on Steel-types. Tinted Lens boosted Choice Specs attacks are nothing to mess with, and while Yanmega may be difficult to support due to its complete reliance on hazard control to function, it at least has usable resistances to Fighting and Grass attacks while having a very usable Speed tier.
    I already mentioned issues with Sticky Web, although you sort of brought those up yourself without realizing it I feel like. Again, hard to justify using Exploud on Sticky Web when there's better options overall and you've got 2-3 slots for strict abusers of Sticky Web.

    Maybe there's something I missed, but I feel like I'd want another wallbreaker in almost every situation. Swellow has sheer Speed, Heracross dominates with Sticky Web, Kommo-o brings synergy, and Yanmega yields more overall rewards if I'm going to cater a team toward a wallbreaker. I just don't feel there's a spot for Exploud right now
  24. Randomnick

    Randomnick
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    Just pointing out 3 things:
    1-Webs are bad, that's why the best Web user is C+, it's still usable, just not a great playstyle, don't get me wrong this still help a lot things like Hera and Gatr ofc.
    2-Your second replay doesn't show how good Webs are (he literally sacked 4 mons to Galvantula and even got rid of Rapid Spin, also SD Gligar and Blastoise...)
    3-And the third thing you have 2 things that resist Bug Buzz: Moltres (2HKOed by Bug Buzz / OHKOed after Rocks) and Doublade (2HKOed by Air Slash / OHKOed by Shadow after Rocks), a Tinted Lens does almost the same a neutral one does, look at this
    252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Diancie: 108-130 (35.5 - 42.7%) -- 93.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Diancie: 109-130 (35.8 - 42.7%) -- 94.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    (The 2nd one is not showing Tinted Lens so it's not resisted, I just chanced Diancie's Fairy type)
    With Yanmega you are faster while still 2HKOing half of the tier, said you don't really need coverage with Yanmega, the same goes to Swellow as EonX said since you can keep momentum with U-Turn and Kommo-o have the coverage it needs, all other things I can think EonX already said so that's it.
    Oh btw to quote you click in "Reply" a post in the bottom right
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017
  25. EviGaro

    EviGaro

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    Stepping outside of this debate for a bit, one mon I feel is sort of out of place and due for a significant rise would be Registeel to A.

    We knew early after Nidoqueen's departure that this meta change would favour three mons in particular: Gigalith, Registeel and Rhyperior. While I also think Rhyperior is undervalued at B+, it is pretty clear for me that Registeel has been on top so far. The decline of Froslass HO, the rise of scarf Shaymin, of more offensively oriented fairies and the prominence of major defensive mons that synergize well with it - Umbreon, Gligar, Florges - have all made Registeel a very potent threat in both SM Cup and so far, RUPL. Not to forget, while it does so differently than Nidoqueen, it is an absolute pain for removers to get any traction against it, as toxic/protect cripples them hard and make them far less reliable. Also, it is notable that while we anticipated Mola's departure to hit it hard, as it doesn't partner quite as well with the other wish passers, in practice it has shown itself to be quite adaptable to the SM metagame, and a core staple of successful teams, from stall builds to balance. Look at Arifeen's win in SM Cup for instance, or Shake's stall team showing up in several RUPL matchups. Having used it in two rounds of SM Cup myself, I can definitely understand why it's so highly regarded.

    And while, yes, it's still a passive monster and all that, you have to go back to the synergy. Setup users like Doublade, Escavalier, Reuniclus or Salazzle are all mostly handled by Quagsire, who might itself deserve a post tbh. Umbreon can also help against a few and wish pass, while being really good to scout out Specs Gardevoir and Zoroark, two other crazy good mons. Heracross/Pangoro/Kommo-o are obvious threats, but Comfey/Gligar/Florges are other options. Basically, it's still a really hard mon to take advantage of because of how easy it is to partner and form a solid backbone around, which to me makes it at the very least a step above the B ranks.
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
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