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Resources RU Viability Rankings

Discussion in 'RarelyUsed' started by phantom, Apr 26, 2017.

  1. Yahooboo


    Jan 10, 2015
    TIL water moves cause fiery explosions
  2. Kushalos

    Kushalos Let the joy of love take you higher
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RU Tour Champion

    Jan 31, 2013
  3. MrAldo

    MrAldo (llsshock)
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Apr 18, 2014
    Damn, thats some cool araquanid art

    But I believe B+ is way too much of a jump for a set that definitely has a notable purpose but, it is similar in effectiveness to a pokemon like Bruxish which resides on B- rank right now, and I will explain why. Bruxish is a pokemon that punishes builds that rely on mantine and milotic as their main water resists and while that is like the tendency virtue of how necessary role compression is in this meta, it is something Bruxish takes advantage of very well thanks to the insane behind psychic fangs. It is the same deal with Araquanid except it takes a more lenghty process through that "seemingly wacky" set, gets rid of the most common water types used as defensive backbone.

    Araquanid certainly has the advantage of not caring about Umbreon as much, but the sluggish speed tier, SR weakness, mono attacking water attack which is limiting since mantine and milotic arent the only water resists in this tier, and some reliance on surprise factor make both Bruxish and Araquanid really comparable, and unique, offensive water types in my eyes so... if Araquanid was to rise it should be to B- and not more than that in my eyes.

    And isnt as effective as Panda, Meloetta, Tyrantrum, DURANT or even Cloyster, hell no lol.

    *Right click + save as on that Araquanid image. Dat shading, hnnggg.
  4. Miyami~~


    Nov 16, 2015
    [​IMG][​IMG]Unranked -> B-
    With the advent of Gatorboy's Aurora Veil team, it's safe to say these two need a rank. Aurora Veil is everywhere now (thanks Aim), and its impact has been felt. The strategy is simple: Use Sash Aurorus to get rocks up, maybe sneak in an Encore, then go to Sandslash, set up veil, and depending on the health of your Aurorus, either switch out or die as quickly as possible.From there, pick one of your setup sweepers (most commonly Feraligatr, Linoone, or Heracross), and just win as quickly as possible. It's extremely consistent at what it does, and is pretty much a garaunteed Reflect + Light Screen to allow something to set up. Given the amount of amazing setup sweepers RU currently has, this is obviously a great thing, as it makes something as fragile as Linoone tough enough to break as to where it can just set up and win. Overall, Aurora Veil is a very viable playstyle in RU capable of just smashing through teams due to the amount of turns to set up it provides.

    This video has a lot of replays and is also the reason AVeil is everywhere now:

    Overall Aurora Veil is good enough to be ranked, and I could see it going both higher and lower depending on how the meta develops with this new addition.
  5. Gatorboy


    Nov 19, 2015
    [​IMG] B- ---> B/B+

    Linoone is one of the tiers best sweepers, no doubt. Being able to sweep through teams with ease after setup (which isn't too difficult since Linoone has above average bulk when fully invested in HP). The only real stop to it are bulky steels, like Registeel, Escavalier, Doublade, Durant, and then Gligar and Porygon2. All of these bar Gligar and P2, lack recovery, and are easy to overwhelm and wear down. Linoone can also set up on a multitude of Pokemon, especially when paired up with aurora veil, and basically wins with its +2 priority in Extreme Speed.

    Calcs of Linoones Checks/Counters After +6 (open)
    +6 252+ Atk Linoone Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 156-184 (42.8 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    +6 252+ Atk Linoone Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 214-252 (62.2 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    +6 252+ Atk Linoone Shadow Claw vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Durant: 202-238 (78.5 - 92.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +6 252+ Atk Linoone Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 210-248 (65.2 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +6 252+ Atk Linoone Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 178-210 (53.2 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +6 252+ Atk Linoone Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 249-294 (66.5 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

  6. spookysocialist


    Jan 14, 2015
    Toxicroak to B+

    Small change but toxicroak deserves to rise since it no longer faces competition from hera. It is a fast fighting type sweeper that finds a lot of setup oppurtunities, especially with the rise of araquanid who is free switches for croak.
  7. Rakan

    Rakan Gonna catch 'em all ... cuz he's Danny Phantom
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Tiering Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Feb 17, 2010
    I'd also like to add that with just a bit of investment Toxicroak can survive a +1 Ice Punch from Feraligatr even after stealth rock and KO in return with z-move + priority move most of the time. I used this variant of Toxicroak in rupl and it worked really well.
    GrilloF, G-Luke, Ununhexium and 6 others like this.
  8. spookysocialist


    Jan 14, 2015
    Oh another nomination: Froslass down to B-

    This thing really, really is just, not good. It was a lot better in a meta with queen but right now every team has gligar or mantine and they get way too many time to defog, even against hyper offense. A few teams can be built with lass, mainly by spamming taunt and boltbeam, but these are very niche. Lass just isn't nearly as splashable as it was in the queen meta and most teams would prefer a bulkier spiker who can last throughout the game.

    Ok nevermind Froslass to C+/C

    I didn't want to nominate this mon for too big of a drop at once but after giving it some more thought, and more importantly looking at it's usage in high lvel play, I feel confident in saying this mon is garbage. It has been used once in the RUPL. Once, in 40ish games of SMRU. Even good heavy offense teams don't use froslass - if they run spikes at all, it's with mega glalie or roserade. Please just let this mon drop to NU and ruin that tier.
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2017
  9. Marrrrrrrrrr


    Feb 16, 2017
    Maybe a Froslass drop, but how is Gligar a stop to Froslass in the slightest?

    252 SpA Froslass Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Gligar: 244-292 (73 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Froslass Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Gligar: 408-480 (122.1 - 143.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    And you nominate it to C+/C solely because of its usage. Usage doesn't equal viability. Roserade and Glalie-Mega aren't as fast, don't have Will-o-Wisp, and they can't block Rapid Spin.
  10. Ununhexium

    Ununhexium dog
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Jan 7, 2014
    It doesn't have to stop Froslass it just has to come in on something it beats and click Defog and remove all of Froslass' work
    thesecondbest likes this.
  11. Randomnick


    Apr 25, 2016
    The point is not that Gligar can beat Froslass, Froslass run Taunt and therefore nothing is meant to Defog on it, but unlike when Nidoqueen was in the meta unless you spam fast Taunt/BoltBeam Mons, it's easy for Gligar and Mantine to come and Defog, being hard to keep hazards during the match, which is Suicide Leads (such as Froslass) aren't great rn
    GrilloF, G-Luke, tenkai and 1 other person like this.
  12. spookysocialist


    Jan 14, 2015
    To add onto what the above two users said, Usage doesn't equal viability, but it can imply it. And I wasn't going off of ladder usage, but RUPL usage. Thats pretty much the highest level of the tier, and those players aren't using it. That's pretty indicative of viability. Also the reason I mentioned mega glalie and roserade as being better overall spikers for offense is because they can do things outside of dropping spikes. Outside of getting a kill with DBond if your opponent doesn't respect lass, all lass is doing will be laying spikes, which makes it much less valuable against teams with strong hazard removal (which is almost every team). Glalie and Roserade can at least hit things hard and threaten opposing teams with damage.
  13. col49

    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Sep 1, 2011
    hello buddies, i think it's worth giving a good look-over of the ranks since it's been a little stagnant and our meta is shifting a lil

    s rank should, in my eyes, contain:
    • salazzle
    • sharpedo
    • registeel

    these pokemon are the axis mons of their playstyles and perform there roles in far too consistent a capacity to be considered just really good, i feel. salazzle i think goes just a hair above the rest, given it remains the most consistent outside its "target match-ups", but really they're all just great now.

    salazzle is, more than anything else rn, a defining speed benchmark for balances to account for, and between pertinent status immunity and the ability to tech itself feasibly to the situation at hand (rn assuming for fire / poison / grass coverage @ z poison, but techs such as dragon pulse and z fire [among others] get explored and exhibit their own prowess) makes it singularly the most threatening offensive pokemon in this tier. the bonus of being resilient to conventional scarfers "ideal" locks, ex: forcing shaymin / rose to lock ground coverage, coupled with its ability to punch through sharpedo's tect, adds to its overbearing nature in a way idt most folks really give it credit most times, since that totally adds a new dimension to what it does for offense.

    registeel i feel is also kinda a given having shown just how consistent it is in tour application. loose checks the bulk of the tier, has the capacity to beat 95% of removal in a vacuum via protox, and its passivity is really not hard to cover w/the resources available to it. even more demonstrable shortcomings, such as the ones presented w/salazzle, have shown themselves to be adapted soundly (ex: two rupl finals games seeing eq registeel utilized to effect). to have this pokemon ranked lower than doublade feels somewhat deaf to the pace taken up by the tier at this time.

    as for zoroark, i certainly recognize the potency of it, and in theory it is the most likely pokemon to overturn a game when operated properly (great example here, all the cred in the world to sam i yam b.c i think he pulled off that bluff beautifully). however, i do not feel it quite encroaches upon s rank territory, because what really puts it over rn is that hypothetical advantage, the ability to bluff and pull off angles like that in a way i personally do not feel can be quantified. to put to words why idt it's quite that good, for one i feel that since the departures of our most iconic win conditions, zoroark's validity as a mover and a shaker for sweepers has decreased significantly; while yes, it can certainly be run in such a way that pushes a gatr check or what have you, i do not feel it is in any way as damning as specs zoro pulsing a p.def gligar or tricking a taunt umb once was, more a quick example. furthermore, with the overall speed of the tier seeing a minor up-tick, zoroark has begun to see slightly less game-per-game versatility, be it as an aoa or booster. it's certainly still good, but in my eyes it just isn't s material.

    and as one last thing that really stuck out to me, since i'm not great w/these threads and will never pretend otherwise, comfey is absolutely not a rank material. nifty pokemon with a very unique niche to it, but it cannot perform it's role w/o either notable support or severe restrictions cast upon it by the meta it sits in. having to dead registeel's lefties to get off the ground is brvtal, and while you can somewhat bypass this w/stuff like rh chesnaught, you're catching the worst of synthesis restrictions b.c you're generally instigating taunt cycles to do so. the amount of boosts you need to get real traction via 50 bp stab is also fairly problematic to an 8 pp recovery pairing, no matter what the rate of draining kiss recovery is. v.unique mon, but ultimately one i would see more as a b+, maybe low a-.
  14. MrAldo

    MrAldo (llsshock)
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Apr 18, 2014
    OML, activity!!

    I can definitely back up the idea that sharpedo should be S rank virtue of their incredible qualities. Salazzle having an spectacular speed tier in conjunction with her power and reliability in take advantage of notorious defensive stuff, which only increase its effectiveness as a breaker. Really good Pokemon that has a solid edge over anything else tbh. Sharpedo is the easily the most effective cleaner in the tier, it is definitely a defining Pokemon in the tier and in offensive teams where you sometimes feel the need to put a Sharpedo on your team because it does so much for a team, and not only on offense. Sharpedo is also a deciding factor in determining offense vs offense matchups where the offense that has Sharpedo will always have a clear advantage over other variants, making non-Sharpedo offenses notably inferior. These 2 should be S definitely.

    Not too sold on Registeel tho, I feel it is as good as Doublade on my eyes. Both share the role of being a glue, soft checking a notorious amount of the metagame and holding teams together, with the main difference that Doublade has the potential of being a win condition while the other offers the singularity of being a mono steel type with amazing general bulk. While I certainly agree that Registeel is an incredibly splashable Pokemon and the fact that it can beat main (if not all) forms of hazard control, its passiveness and reliance on its item for the protox shenanigans with some metagame trends and, imo, the lack of notorious competition for a defensive steel type role holds it back from S in my eyes. Why it managed to patch a shortcoming with Salazzle with the Earthquake tech, the rise of Pokemon like Calm Mind Fightinium Z Meloetta, more Escavalier running Knock Off, Pangoro and such which are finding its place on many teams are also trends that kind of affect it (and the Meloetta part isnt easy to patch up at all).

    I agree it should definitely rise to A+ but Im not sold on the S rank part, Im not seeing it right now. Will see a lot more usage since having a mono Steel-type is so particularly nice and literally 0 competition for its defensive capabilities as a steel-type, but idk, if more people support it I will not be mad at it but I gotta stand with my play.

    A nom on my own which I feel deserves some discussion.

    Aerodactyl from C to C+ or even B-:

    From all the C ranked Pokemon, Aerodactyl definitely stands out as the one with more notable use of the bunch. Having the unique niche of being a rock-type with Pursuit in order to put Pokemon like Salazzle (really notorious one) and Swellow against the wall, in a position or dying or getting chipped down which in compound with their stealth rock weakness can be a life saver, is really really nice for some teams looking for more proactive counterplay against said Pokemon, particularly some offenses and bulky offenses. And it can find some place on balance since Salazzle can be rather oppressive towards it. Is no slouch either in terms of attacking power since Edge Quake + Ice coverage is really nice to avoid problems with Gligar and Flygon and Pokemon like Doublade and Registeel can easily get 3hkod so those should be wary to switch into it. I feel it deserves a bump alongside Araquanid (which is a pending rise, but it will probably happen).

    More to come. Cheers!
    Slurmz, Eclipse, Rakan and 23 others like this.
  15. Venoxio


    Jan 10, 2015
    Oh hey, that's an update! I won't give my detailed opinions on all the changes, but I'll say a few.

    [​IMG]Definitely agree with this going to S. For sure the best sweeper in the tier, with "counters" such as Dragalge or Quagsire being decimated by tech like Dragon Pulse, HP Grass, etc.
    What really pushes this thing into S is its speed tier in combination with Nasty Plot and Z-Crystal. Acid Downpour annihilates would-be-checks like bulky waters and others, making it a meta-defining Pokemon and something all teams need keep in mind when building.

    [​IMG]Yeh, this thing should've dropped a long time ago. Triage with Draining Kiss is definitely very good and instant healing is absolutely incredible (even outstripping Extreme Speeds) but it's just not consistent enough and too passive to really do much to teams anymore. With Salazzle rightfully being recognized as a top 3 mon and registeel surging in popularity, among others, poison and steel types, two great types in the tier, wall it so hard that it becomes useless if it has any boosts up. Sure, HP is a thing, but its way too weak unboosted to really do anything (unless its like HP Ground on a Salazzle switch in, but that's very specific) and even boosted the best steels and a few poisons are defensive enough to easily live a hit and OHKO/2HKO back. unless you run Z-Celebrate ;))))


    And I have a nom of my own I'd like to present!


    C --> C+/B-

    This thing took NU by storm during its reign of tyranny there, and while its certainly not defining like it was down there by any means I feel Cofag definitely is better than stuff like Minior and Charizard. Trick Room as a move is actually pretty good in the meta, turning threats such as Salazzle, Sharpedo, Swellow, and Flygon's speed tiers into liabilities, even lowering Sharpedo's speed every turn before mummy, lol. OTR is definitely a great set that basically, once you set up and get up a TR, something's going to die. It's not even hard to set up either, as its bulk ensures it can take some hits and retaliate with a strong Never-Ending-Nightmare or HP Fighting. Similar to Reuniclus, too, while Knock Off would hinder it strongly, due to Z-moves Cofag isn't as hurt by Knock Off as it used to be, letting it set up and kill some threats that have Knock Off such as Pangoro and physical Zoroark. I don't think it should raise any higher than this due to the fact that ghost isn't the best typing rn with shark and zoro running wild and HP Fighting being weak against a lot of targets it should kill, but I can get behind it going to C+ or B- rank.
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2017
    tenkai and MaahirMomtaz12 like this.
  16. Cheryl.

    Cheryl. Breh
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Mar 24, 2015
    I'd like to second Gatorboy's nomination of Linoone rising to B/B+. Linoone is probably one of the more consistent late-game sweepers in the tier right now, being able to overwhelm teams easily with Belly Drum and ESpeed, as well as its coverage. It is often able to tank one hit from a random offensive mon and boost up thanks to Gluttony and Figy Berry being busted as fuck, and usually it's often able to just ESpeed the opposing team once the Normal resists are gone. While Linoone is checked by some common mons, mainly a healthy Registeel, I'd like to add that the Registeel (or any other bulky check really) should NOT be healthy when Linoone is out on the field, as Linoone is better equipped for late-game sweeping after it's team has beaten down the opposing team. Of course Linoone wont do quite as much versus bulky teams as it does versus frailer ones, but against faster offensive teams it excels because of it's powerful priority and how they are so easily overwhelmed after it's Belly Drummed. Linoone can also be used on different playstyles, ranging from the BO-centric Shake teams that sees a lot of use on the ladder to Aurora Veil teams, a rising playstyle which Linoone fits pretty well on due to Veil softening up hits for it to set up even easier, and how Linoone benefits from the other sweepers that see use on Veil teams that beat down opposing teams for Linoone to clean up late-game. Overall, I think that Linoone is reliable enough as a late-game cleaner to rise up in the rankings to B or B+.
  17. phantom

    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Mar 3, 2013
    Ranking updates

    Be sure to post often if you'd like to see this thread updated frequently.

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]Bewear --> up to A
    [​IMG]Pangoro --> up to A
    [​IMG]Araquanid --> up to B
    [​IMG]Aerodactyl --> up to C+
    [​IMG]Salazzle --> up to S
    [​IMG]Registeel --> up to A+
    [​IMG]Dragalge --> up to A
    [​IMG]Linoone --> up to B
    [​IMG]Durant --> up to A-
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]Comfey --> down to A-
    [​IMG][​IMG]Torkoal & Venusaur --> down to A-
    [​IMG]Kingdra --> down to B-
    [​IMG]Froslass --> down to B-
    [​IMG]Sableye --> down to C+
    [​IMG]Espeon --> down to C+
    [​IMG]Donphan --> down to C
    [​IMG]Minior --> down to C
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]Aurorus --> added to B-
    [​IMG]Sandslash-Alola --> added to B-
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]Slurpuff --> Unranked
    [​IMG]Ribombee --> Unranked
    [​IMG]Emboar --> Unranked
    [​IMG]Dodrio --> Unranked


    Pokemon that weren't discussed:

    Pangoro and Bewear have moved up because they're the best Fighting-types in the tier. With Heracross gone, both no longer have to compete with it for a slot. In addition, both of their Swords Dance sets are capable of breaking defensive teams quite well, with Pangoro doing it more efficiently, but Bewear having the added bonus of checking many physical attackers such as Sharpedo and Feraligatr.

    Torkoal and Venusaur have moved down to reflect the viability of sun as a whole. While sun is capable of dismantling balance and Aurora Veil teams, both of which have become more popular as of late, sun teams are still relatively inconsistent and matchup dependant due to the how much those teams struggle in breaking various threats such as Dragalge and Umbreon and how difficult it can be for their teams in general to deal with offensive threats like Sharpedo and Gardevoir.

    Kingdra moved down because it struggles in making a niche for itself in this meta. Sharpedo is a better cleaner than Rain Dance Kingdra, while Critdra sets are less consistent than other wallbreakers. Choice Specs Kingdra, while good, lacks the Speed, power and bulk to be as consistent as other B rank Pokemon.

    Sableye, Espeon, Donphan, and Minior moved down because none are particularly effective in this meta. While they're not bad per se, there's not much of a reason to use Donphan or Espeon due to Donphan being much worse than Gligar, while Espeon is neither good at supporting or wallbreaking like other Psychics such as Meloetta or Cresselia. Minior on the other hand has difficulty sweeping both offensive and defensive teams due to the presence of Doublade and Quagsire on their respective playstyles. It also has difficulty setting up, making it a niche pick in this meta.

    Slurpuff, Emboar, Rimbombee, and Dodrio are either outclassed (Slurpuff/Rimbombee) or are too ineffective at performing their given roles (Dodrio/Ribombee). In the case of Emboar, there's not much of a reason to use it over other wallbreakers, and defensively its niche isn't important enough to deserve a rank.
  18. avocado

    avocado العدالة تمطر من فوق
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Jul 17, 2010
    Nominating Mismagius for B+

    I was never a fan of missy honestly, never liked her design, always thought she was underwhelming cuz too frail and LO is too much and without LO she always feels too weak. This view of Mismagius hasn't changed since probably DPP until I tried her out last week in RU, when it finally changed. I used the ghostium z set with Shadow Ball/Taunt/Nasty Plot/Dazzling Gleam, and I gotta admit it's absolutely fantastic. First of all, the 105 speed tier puts it above Flygon and Shaymin which is a huge boon. It having access to Taunt also makes Registeel setup bait against it, while neutralizing some other Pokemon like Comfey or Gligar. But honestly, the biggest reason I feel like she's good is her consistency vs a lot of the S and A ranks. She can live a hit from Salazzle and OHKO with z-shadow ball, lives unboosted sneak from Doublade (though needs prior dmg or z-sb to kill), can outspeed and OHKO gatr after sr with z-sb, outspeeds flygon, uses regi as set up fodder, outspeeds shaymin, beats non-crunch snorlax, beats milotic, mantine, pangoro, cresselia, bewear & chesnaught (at +2), kommo, etcetc

    What I'm getting at here is that thanks to its access to Taunt, Nasty Plot, and the necessary coverage moves that it needs in addition to very good speed tier, it sets itself as a very consistent offensive Pokemon that can shut down quite a bit of the top threats in this tier, but admittedly does lose to a couple of them (Zoroark and Sharpedo to name a couple). For now I feel like B+ is warranted for it. I didn't even mention how it having Ghost-typing and Levitate is good for it too, since having EQ invincibility is decent, and its typing at least could deter rapid spin, though it is too frail to be spinblocking, although it holding a Z-crystal means it lives a knock off from donphan.

    Also, I agree with Registeel for S. It doesn't look it on paper, but in practice that fucker is literally a blanket check to pretty much any special attacker you can think of that doesn't have a super-effective STAB. It's ridiculously good and consistent despite lacking recovery, but Protect and insane bulk lets it live just enough to milk all the usefulness of him in a match. Also he's one of the most non-passive walls in the tier thanks to Toxic and Seismic Toss making it not completely useless outside of walling/setting up SR. A Pokemon that consistent and that good at doing so many tasks at once while barely having any flaws at all just has to be in S.
  19. Arifeen

    is a Tutoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    May 31, 2014
    I am shocked to see no inclusion of Machamp in the viability rankings. With Heracross gone, Machamp is one of the few Pokemon to destroy most defensive builds. With -Tsunami- / KratosMana's Toxicroak stall being prevalent, Machamp remains as one of the biggest threats to that team, and other similar builds. It is basically a slower Heracross, but with either priority to dent off Gardevoir and weakened threats, or Ice Punch to take down Gligar with ease. If you still didn't figure out, this is the set that I am using:

    Machamp @ Flame Orb
    Ability: Guts
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Facade
    - Knock Off
    - Bullet Punch / Ice Punch

    The only downside of using Machamp is that it is relatively slow, and Pokemon such as Cresselia can creep it to act as a soft check (Cresselia should hit 220 anyways for Bewear). The slowness makes Machamp susceptible to strong attackers like Pangoro / Bewear / Salazzle / Feraligatr, as well as face competition from the two better Fighting-types: Bewear and Pangoro. However, bulky teams have become accustomed to handling Bewear with Quagsire, and Toxicroak stall actually deals with Pangoro pretty well. Machamp should definitely have a relatively high spot on the VR, especially after it has been used in RU Open a couple of times and pretty much destroyed bulky teams. (would have posted replays if my guy was okay with it) Here are some nice calcs to show how ridiculous Machamp is in the tier:
    Show Hide

    252+ Atk Guts Machamp Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Milotic: 297-349 (75.3 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Guts Machamp Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 230-271 (63.8 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Guts Machamp Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 258-304 (65.4 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Guts Machamp Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 44 Def Moltres: 261-308 (68.1 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Guts Machamp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 81-96 (24.2 - 28.7%) -- 98.9% chance to 4HKO
    252+ Atk Guts Machamp Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gligar: 175-207 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Guts Machamp Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 274-323 (82 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
    252+ Atk Guts Machamp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 164-194 (50.9 - 60.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    With that being said, I should see Machamp as high as B+ or A- at the very least.
    Sacri', Christo, Natalie. and 10 others like this.
  20. Kyora


    Jun 28, 2016
    I agree with a Machamp Rise to B/B+, this pokemon can easily destroy devensive teams with its 130 base attack+good coverage+Flame Orb Guts, it can revenge kill some pokemon like Gardevoir with Bullet Punch but I don't think A- is a good rank atm, it's too slow and can be pressured so easily by Pokémon like Sharp or Meloetta and Pangoro can be better for destroy stall teams. Machamp is a good Pokémon atm and a rise to a B rank or B+ rank is very good for it

    I think Meloetta can rise form B+ to A- rank
    Meloetta is so good atm in RU, its offensive CM set can easily sweep teams and has no real switch-in (maybe Specially Defensive Escavalier? +1 252 SpA Meloetta All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 172 SpD Escavalier: 250-295 (72.6 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery... oh no xd)

    the real problem of meloetta is its weankess to status, it can't place CM on Registeel if it doesn't have Substitute, and maybe its speed which prevent it to place CM on fast offensive teams, but its special bulk can allow it to place CM on Pokemon like Hoopa or defensive Roserade Meloetta can make a big pressure with its big coverage which prevent Doublade or Bronzong to come for counter it and, its speed can be embarrassing when it's faced to Pokémon such as Zoroark but it's faster than Feraligatr, Adamant Flygon or Kommo-o, it's not a bad speedtier at all.

    Meloetta, in my opinion, should rise to A-

    Sorry if my english is bad :x.
  21. teachable


    Sep 21, 2014
    In addition to what is said here: Registeel just straight up beats the most common Defoggers, w/ Toxic + Spamming rocks and tect until they switch; at the worst they switch out and rocks stay up anyways. Agree with Registeel for S.

    Agree with Missy for B+, also. The speed, typing, and access to taunt is really relevant.
    Gatorboy likes this.
  22. Miyami~~


    Nov 16, 2015
    [​IMG]Registeel: A+ -> S: Agree
    There isn't a whole lot I can say about this that hasn't already been said. Registeel serves as an excellent blanket check to most relevant special attackers, sets rocks, and even without recovery can do it multiple times over the course of a long match thanks to its insane bulk + protect giving it more leftovers turn. It's also deceptively passive with Toxic + Seismic Toss + Protect adding up quickly. I feel like I'm just repeating what's been said, but Registeel's ability and influence on the tier can't be ignored.

    And for a nom of my own...

    [​IMG]Donphan: C -> C-
    Donphan is, quite frankly, terrible. It does have a niche of having both Stealth Rock + Spin on one teamslot, which looks nice, but Donphan lacks the bulk, speed, or recovery to actually get off both of them during a match and often has to pick between one. Having only leftovers as a way of recovery while being plagued with a vulnerability to all forms of entry hazards and a fairly bad defensive typing means Donphan can't switch in as much as it needs to without serious support, and that's a bad trait for a spinner to have. There is very little reason to use Donphan over Gligar, who can do whatever Donphan's trying to do with extra bulk and recovery, or Rhyperior, which trades Spin for more bulk and STAB EdgeQuake. Donphan is just outclassed in every role it tries to do and isn't worth using on most teams.
    eht, eifo, ThatRandomPerson42 and 5 others like this.
  23. BelmontGabriel


    Jan 28, 2014
    Ok I think I'm goint to drop my 50 cents as well.

    [​IMG] Registeel: A+ ---> S: Agree
    This Pokemon is stupidly strong. It singlehandedly removed almost every single offensive mon that can't set up for free on it or hits it straight up with a super effective STAB move from the metagame. It's also one of the most splashable mons in the tier. Push it to the top!

    [​IMG] Meloetta: B+ --> A/A-

    Ok before you judge me for this nom hear me out. One of the best stallbreaker in the tier is CM Meloetta and it does it in deifferent ways too. The most common set right now should be the CM Three Attacks set with Fightinium Z.
    The better one against stall imo is the 252 HP Sub CM Meloetta with Focus Blast and Psychic. With this Meloetta can freely setup in Registeels face while the Sub takes 2 Seismic Tosses to break and you recover half of the sub damage eating our lefties in those 2 turns. Due to the stally nature of this meta Meloetta evolved into the best offensive Psychic Type in the tier and should be ranked somewhere in the middle/lower As as this.

    [​IMG] Quagsire: B+ --> A-
    Quagsire is one of the 4 backbone mons that is included in most stall teams in the current meta being a member of the infamous Registeel, Umbreon, Gligar, Quagsire Core and thus as one of the mons enabling an entire playstyle should be ranked in the As of the tier. Although being the only mon in this core being useless outside of stall it should be lower than the other three so I guess A- fits it best.
  24. spookysocialist


    Jan 14, 2015
    Cryogonal: C----> B+

    Forget Sandslash-A, this is the premier aurora veil mon thanks to the discovery of how amazing veil + screens is. While it's more passive then Sandslash, being able to set up quad defenses for the whole team, or screens if hail isn't up, is amazing and honestly makes veil offense so good. I know cyanize and Eren. have used this mon a lot more but yeah, shits busted yo.
  25. Gatorboy


    Nov 19, 2015
    I have tried it out, and it's decent ngl, but I still prefer a slash since it can get the veil up before any mon thanks to slush rush. A slash also has hazard control with rapid spin, and at least some offensive presence. Cryo is just too passive, and can't always get up the screens it needs against certain faster/stronger mons. Triple screens is cool, but I still prefer a slash as a Veiler since it has some power and more utility

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