RU Viability Rankings

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Zoroark: I'm not sure if it's indeed as good as Sharpedo, Salazzle, Nidoqueen, and Registeel, but with an ok Speed Tier, Illusion being so great and access to so many viable moves and sets (SD, NP, Specs, Scarf, Utility), it's very versatile and hard to predict. It can be annoying for any team, even if you know its Zoroark, you never know what you're playing against, not to mention how Zoroark can help things by weakening its checks, when Zoroark can do things like: a "Salazzle" beating Gigalith with a +2 Focus Blast and help the real Salazzle, I think Zoroark should stay S.

Tyrantrum: About Tyrantrum, I don't think its very fair to compare it with Zydog, there's much more than the Dragon typing, Tyrantrum is so powerful, with the right Choice Band can 2HKO the entire meta, which Zydog fails to do, unlike the Dog its kinda slow but if played well can be really annoying, its meant to be more of a Wallbreaker than a Cleaner, and the Defense is so high, giving you a shaky check to Physical Sharpedo, not to mention how Scarf Tyrantrum is an ok offensive check to Salazzle and a great revenge killer in general for teams able to cover well faster sweepers such as DD Flygon and DD Feraligatr, it also has access to sets like Rock Polish, I think it has its flaws but that's why its B+, I don't think it should go anywhere, it's fine as B+ imo.

Bronzong: Bronzong is an ok check to Abomasnow-Mega and Nidoqueen, while its still a Flygon check, which are good niches over Regi, but with some of our best mons being: Zydog, Shark, Salazzle, Zoroark, and a lot of mons able to beat it, I don't think Levitate and being neutral to Fighting is enough to justify a rise and that's why I think it should stay where it's at.

I agree with Xatu rise.
Xatu is good against the best Spiker and the 2nd best Rocker, kind of matchup reliant and bad against Queen, Glalie, Roserade and Froslass, but still enough for C+ since its good against most non Froslass Spikes stacking teams. I also agree with Kommo-o to A, thanks to Florges and Comfey being far worse now, access to a powerful Specs set, a nice Work Up + Z-Move set that is so annoying for stall to play against and even options like Autotomize I think Kommo-o just became better after the shift and deserves a rise.

About Snorlax and Sigilyph (I've never faced or used the latter one) I don't feel I'm able to judge so I'm not commenting about them.
 
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I feel like Zoroark is a little overrated, if I'm honest. Illusion is better on paper than it is in practice, since quite often there will be little things that give away the Pokemon's true identity. Borrowing from the above example, an attempt to disguise a Zoroark as a Salazzle will come undone because it won't take the right amount of Stealth Rock damage - and an alert player should pick up on that. It's very good, but I don't think it's quite metagame-defining.

However, I'm mostly an offense player, and I do appreciate that it may be more difficult for bulkier teams to handle. Recent metagame trends, like the decline in Diancie usage, have been kind to it. Overall, I personally think it's not on the level of the other S-rank threats and sits more naturally at A+, but I see why others may disagree.
 
I feel like Zoroark is a little overrated, if I'm honest. Illusion is better on paper than it is in practice, since quite often there will be little things that give away the Pokemon's true identity. Borrowing from the above example, an attempt to disguise a Zoroark as a Salazzle will come undone because it won't take the right amount of Stealth Rock damage - and an alert player should pick up on that. It's very good, but I don't think it's quite metagame-defining.

However, I'm mostly an offense player, and I do appreciate that it may be more difficult for bulkier teams to handle. Recent metagame trends, like the decline in Diancie usage, have been kind to it. Overall, I personally think it's not on the level of the other S-rank threats and sits more naturally at A+, but I see why others may disagree.
I'd say a really smart player wouldn't make a Zoroark disguise a Salazzle and instead disguise something else neutral to Stealth Rock. Illusion is still a very good ability (would be better if Team Preview didn't exist, although that would make Zoroark broken LOL)
 
I'd say a really smart player wouldn't make a Zoroark disguise a Salazzle and instead disguise something else neutral to Stealth Rock. Illusion is still a very good ability (would be better if Team Preview didn't exist, although that would make Zoroark broken LOL)
Salazzle is one of the best things to disguise Zoro as imo. Both have similar movepools (both set up nasty plots!), both are quick, and they cover each other's weaknesses very well (you would want to bring in a psychic against salazzle for example) and are hard to deal with. There's prob more, but I'm tired right now, but just had to put this in
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life

Moltres from A- to A

I feel like Moltres is being criminally underrated in A-. It has benefitted from several of the new drops, such as Mega Abomasnow and Decidueye, as it is able to offensively check them pretty well (It's practically a counter to SD M-Aboma if it's healthy), and is also a great check to Fighting-types, forcing them out in fear of a Hurricane. Moltres has a ton of viable sets as well, ranging from SubToxic to Life Orb to Choice Scarf, although I find SubToxic and Life Orb to be the best ones right now. Life Orb, in particular, is insanely powerful and great at busting a ton of defensive and balanced cores alike, with LO Hurricanes and Fire Blasts even putting pressure on specially defensive monsters like Umbreon with some chip damage (which is even easier than before with Spikes stack being so dominant). Moltres also takes great advantage of the defensive mons running around, such as Registeel, Chesnaught and Gligar, as it gets a free switch-in on them to wallbreak or just wreak havoc in general. While Moltres does get some competition from fellow Fire-type Salazzle, who is faster, has set-up, and doesn't rely quite as much on hazard control as Moltres does, I believe Moltres has notable advantages in being more unpredictable with its sets, as well as being really strong right off the bat instead of having to set up like Salazzle does, while also having slightly more defensive utility in more bulk and useful resistances. For these reasons, I believe Moltres takes great advantage of the current meta and that should warrant a rise to A.
 
I think it would be more realistic too have pangoro in A- or B+, it's simply too slow, it becomes dead weight in a lot of matchups and is useless against fast hyper offensive teams.
Pangoro literally kills anything slower than it, and it has the bulk to eat some hits, and drain punch it back. It beats all of the common defensive mons (Registeel, Umbreon, Gligar, Porygon2, Quagsire, Rhyperior) and sets up without the fear of Foul Play from those mons. It also priority to make up for its speed in Bullet Punch and has Gunk Shot to hit fairy types, which are in a pretty bad time rn. It also works well vs offense, as Fighting and Dark Coverage hits most things in the tier for neutral coverage. I think its fine where it is at A, because it is a great mon in the tier.
 
Pangoro literally kills anything slower than it, and it has the bulk to eat some hits, and drain punch it back. It beats all of the common defensive mons (Registeel, Umbreon, Gligar, Porygon2, Quagsire, Rhyperior) and sets up without the fear of Foul Play from those mons. It also priority to make up for its speed in Bullet Punch and has Gunk Shot to hit fairy types, which are in a pretty bad time rn. It also works well vs offense, as Fighting and Dark Coverage hits most things in the tier for neutral coverage. I think its fine where it is at A, because it is a great mon in the tier.
I understand and agree it is a great mon with a large niche on RU, but it's extreamly slow, the "anything slower than it" isn't much. And it is also easy too trap and force a switch. If you try to fix the speed problem with a scarf, you can easily wall it. That's why I think it should be moved down
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life
I understand and agree it is a great mon with a large niche on RU, but it's extreamly slow, the "anything slower than it" isn't much. And it is also easy too trap and force a switch. If you try to fix the speed problem with a scarf, you can easily wall it. That's why I think it should be moved down
Pangoro isn't meant to be used as a fast mon, it's always used as a slow wallbreaker since Scarf Pangoro is simply not viable. While Pangoro's matchup against offense isn't the greatest, it's still enough to tank at least one hit and it still has very limited switch-ins on offense, and we can't underestimate it's excellent matchup against balanced and stall teams, which is the reason why it's A rank in the first place, as it's one of the most consistent wallbreakers against these types of teams.
 
I understand and agree it is a great mon with a large niche on RU, but it's extreamly slow, the "anything slower than it" isn't much. And it is also easy too trap and force a switch. If you try to fix the speed problem with a scarf, you can easily wall it. That's why I think it should be moved down
Pangoro isn't meant to be used as a fast mon, it's always used as a slow wallbreaker since Scarf Pangoro is simply not viable. While Pangoro's matchup against offense isn't the greatest, it's still enough to tank at least one hit and it still has very limited switch-ins on offense, and we can't underestimate it's excellent matchup against balanced and stall teams, which is the reason why it's A rank in the first place, as it's one of the most consistent wallbreakers against these types of teams.
Also, interestingly enough, Pangoro is faster than half of the A+ and A mons...
 
Also, interestingly enough, Pangoro is faster than half of the A+ and A mons...
I understand it's a slow wallbreaker, but most walls In RU can outspeed it and ether stall it out, it was much more viable when cresselia was ru, but now it's banned to UU so it's way harder too use and has a lower niche
 
I understand it's a slow wallbreaker, but most walls In RU can outspeed it and ether stall it out, it was much more viable when cresselia was ru, but now it's banned to UU so it's way harder too use and has a lower niche
Almost every single viable wall in the tier is outsped or killed by Pangoro: Cresselia, Umbreon, Registeel, Porygon2, etc. Fighting/Dark STAB has great coverage on these walls so it can not only set up on all of them bar Cress if it's running Moonblast, it can also dismantle them (and most stall builds to an extent) pretty much single-handedly. The walls don't stall panda out when it can set up on and slaughter them before any Toxic damage or anything of the sort is racked up (and Drain Punch shaves off some Toxic damage fwiw).
 
Looking in the the VR, theres a mon in C+ that is obviously above them all and deserved a rise, and that mon is Espeon. It sports a terrific 130 SpA and great 110 Speed. It can run a few different sets being, Specs, CM, and even Scarf. The meta is currently really kind for it since Nidoqueen dropped, and Chesnaught is on the rise, and Espeon can come in on both of those to bounce their respective hazards back. Sure it has to be careful around queen, but it can live 1 hit and easily KO queen back. Espeon does have a lot of switchins, like Registeel and Umbreon, but Espeon has ways around them. Like it can beat Registeel 1v1 with CM/Morning Sun or, cripple it and Umbreon with trick, and then on those mons are really screwed as Regi can only damage with Stoss, and Umbreon with Foul Play. Overall, I think Espeon is a Mon that is cut clear above C+, and is deserving of B- at least. So I will say C+ ---> B/B-
 
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Looking in the the VR, theres a mon in C+ that is obviously above them all and deserved a rise, and that mon is Espeon. It sports a terrific 130 SpA and great 110 Speed. It can run a few different sets being, Specs, CM, and even Scarf. The meta is currently really kind for it since Nidoqueen dropped, and Chesnaught is on the rise, and Espeon can come in on both of those to bounce their respective hazards back. Sure it has to be careful around queen, but it can live 1 hit and easily KO queen back. Espeon does have a lot of switchins, like Registeel and Umbreon, but Espeon has ways around them. Like it can beat Registeel 1v1 with CM/Morning Sun or, cripple it and Umbreon with trick, and then on those mons are really screwed as Regi can only damage with Stoss, and Umbreon with Foul Play. Overall, I think Espeon is a Mon that is cut clear above C+, and is deserving of B- at least. So I will say C+ ---> B/B-
Oh boi, Espeon is gonna get scarier with no Sharpedo around. Espeon being virtually faster than any other Dark Type is a huge boon for it as it gets Dazzling Gleam. I am not contributing much but if there is concern about Espeon rise in Ranks, well Sharpedo going away definitely helps a little bit for this case.
 
so RU discord is talking about potential drops/rises and I felt like I need to post here before its lost in waves of text etc:

Rises:
A+
A
B- or B
B or B+
possibly aero rise but idk
I could also see cress in a+ that thing is insane

Drops:
A
A
could see this dropping to A but either A or A+ is fine imo
could also see this dropping mostly cuz tspikes aren't in favour atm, specs set isn't good cuz 50/50s need to predict etc also competes w/ kommo-o, but good defenses and defensive typing
B+
A-
UR
UR
C or C-

just general metagame changes and trends i noticed from watching tours + laddering a bit. the current VR are a tad bit outdated rn
 
so RU discord is talking about potential drops/rises and I felt like I need to post here before its lost in waves of text etc:

Rises:
A+
A
B- or B
B or B+
possibly aero rise but idk
I could also see cress in a+ that thing is insane

Drops:
A
A
could see this dropping to A but either A or A+ is fine imo
could also see this dropping mostly cuz tspikes aren't in favour atm, specs set isn't good cuz 50/50s need to predict etc also competes w/ kommo-o, but good defenses and defensive typing
B+
A-
UR
UR
C or C-

just general metagame changes and trends i noticed from watching tours + laddering a bit. the current VR are a tad bit outdated rn
Xatu jumping from C- to B or B+ is a huge stretch isn't it?
 

Funbot28

Breaking hearts since '09
is a Pre-Contributor
-> A+: Agree
One of the best scarfers in the tier, Roserade has a lot to offer. Its STAB moves in combination with Technician HP Fire or Ice alongside other options like Dazzling Gleam and Shadow Ball makes it really hard to safely come in on thanks to the absurd amount of power this thing has naturally. It also offers teams that cannot fit Chest on it that well (think HO and some Bulky Offenses) an offensive spiker that can threaten out the most common hazard removers in Gligar, Xatu, and even Moltres. The only real gripe I have is its Speed tier as it can be outspeed by some pretty common threats such as Flygon, Salazzle (cant revenge kill it unless its heavily weakened) and Zoroark mindgames can annoy it. Still Roserade is solid enough to warrant a rise to A+ atm.

-> A: Agree
So I decided to start using Decidueye myself and its been putting in a lot of work for me. The main advantage it has over other SD sweepers like Feraligatr and Zoroark is its access to run two incredibly powerful Z-Moves that enable it to beat down its distinctive respective checks. For example, Grassium Z (especially in Overgrow range) can break through stuff like Umbreon and Porygon 2 while Decidium Z runs through the rest of its checks like Registeel, Doublade, and Kommo-o. Its trapping properties is also useful for a lot of teams, getting rid of annoying walls like the aforementioned Registeel on top of things like non-Uturn Gligar, Cresselia, Chestnaught, and weakened Umbreon. Again, it has a problem with a middling Speed tier that makes it over rely on a weak Sucker Punch to threaten out offensive threats, but the pressure Decid puts on balanced and defensive teams alone makes it deserving to move up imo.

-> B+:
Agree
Xatu is really useful in a hazards spamming metagame that were in rn. Beating out the two most common entry hazard setters in RegiChest is extremely useful while still being able to offensively check Nidoqueen is the icing on the cake. It also provides useful momentum for its team in the form of U-Turn (since the aforementioned mons will most likely always switch out unless they run a lure which I have been seeing more and more) or can even plow teams on its own with a Calm Mind set (which really isn't that bad since Fire coverage and a better recovery option gives it an edge over Espeon). Its still weak to common offensive types in Dark, Ghost, and Ice but still a well played Xatu can shut down many teams that do not respect it.

-> A: Disagree
Mega Abomasnow is still too threatening to be ranked lower. Both its mixed and SD sets are still threatening to the majority of teams and both require specific checks of their own. Ice + Ground coverage is really threatening to any mon in the tier bar Bronzong and Araquanid (which gets blown away by Wood Hammer) and its typing enables it to come in on almost every Water, Ground, and Grass type in the metagame. The popularity of things it can check in Zydog, Roserade, Queen and Flygon still means it can be useful for a lot of teams needing a check to offense. Yes it has a slow Speed and troubling weaknesses (especially to Rocks), but still that has never really stopped Mega Snow from being the offensive tyrant it still continues to be.

-> A:
Agree
Roserade has really taken this things spot as the best offensive Grass type in the metagame. While Shaymin has better bulk and a better Speed tier that can actually check threats like Scarf Flygon, Roserade's better offensive damage output and access to Spikes gives it a alight edge over the grass hedgehog. SubSeed sets are still pretty great especially since Registeel cant break through them with Toss, but still the influx of other offensive Grass-type threats has really pushed Shaymin off a bit.

-> A-:
Disagree
Gligar is still one of the best blanket checks to a slew of offensive threats such as Zydog, Flygon, Pangoro, and Decidueye (if it packs Acro). Being one of the only reliable Deffogers in the tier also amps up its splashability greatly while still not losing to much momentum thanks to its access to U-Turn. While it is now competing with Xatu as an entry hazard deterrent, Gligar's greater consistency still makes it much better imo.

Phew ok im done, avocado thank me later
 

Natural Talent

Don't die trying to live..
is a Tiering Contributor
Cresselia for S rank

Cresselia is a very versatile mon, in roles and move pool. From either defensive sets, to calm mind, all the way to dual screens it provides useful. With the introduction of Z Moves it can avoid trick and knock off. Z moonblast is cool for flygon, pangoro, honchkrow, zygarde-10% and Zoroark. Toxic & moonlight can 1v1 most team builds lacking a steel type and calm mind sets can beat some stalls and bulky offenses. A cool 3 attacks Calm Mind set with Z psychic or psyshock is amazingly fun. It's natural bulk and decent speed allows it to pull off so many roles. Not to forget about t wave which can support different attackers mostly slowers ones with strong attack stats. Being able to trouble all 3 of the current s rank mons is cool as well.
 

phantom

is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
RU Co-Leader
Ranking updates

Rises:
Xatu --> up to B
Espeon --> up to B-
Toxicroak --> up to B+
Ampharos-Mega --> added to B-
Drops
Gigalith down to A-
Pangoro down to A-
Shaymin down to A
Linoone down to C+
Torkoal down to B+
Venusaur down to B+

Reasoning:

Rises/Drops:

Xatu has moved up due to its ability to punish passive hazard setters, while still having a great movepool that makes it useful in other matchups. With hazard removal being difficult to employ, a Pokemon that can reliably keep hazards off from various Stealth Rock and Spikes has become more useful than ever.

Espeon moved up for similar reasons. However, Espeon's greater Speed and ability to employ Calm Mind sets, as well its lack of weakness to Ice attacks allows it to take on Froslass, Roserade, and defensive teams more reliably. However, it's not as easy to fit onto teams and is overall less reliable than Xatu.

Toxicroak wasn't discussed, but this meta has become more favorable to it, as the increased usage in Feraligatr, Milotic, and SD Zoroark makes its defensive niche that much more valuable. Furthermore, some of the more popular defensive cores such as Chesnaught/Xatu/Snorlax are ones that Toxicroak can easily break. Its ability to break some of the most popular bulky archetypes while remaining consistently useful against other kinds of teams makes it quite useful in the current meta.

Mega Ampharos was added to B- as it's an excellent wallbreaker with its 4 attacks set. Its coverage, and lack of exploitable weaknesses limits the amount of counters Ampharos has, while having enough speed to outrun nearly all the defensive threats it needs to, and its slow Volt Switch is quite nice in supporting faster and frailer teammates. However, Ampharos is difficult to fit onto teams and is very easy to wear down given how slow it is, so B- is an appropriate preliminary ranking for now.

Gigalith moved down due to how much sand teams struggle in the current meta. With Nidoqueen being so common and Nidoqueen checks being so awkward to fit onto sand, Gigalith teams have become more difficult to pull off. Gigalith itself also invites a lot of threatening Pokemon in, while the same can be said for other Pokemon, sandstream limits the use of Pokemon that can otherwise help fix this flaw, making it more difficult to overcome in this case.

While this wasn't discussed, Pangoro has moved down because Bewear is mostly better. On top of being just as strong as Pangoro, Bewear's ability to soft check various physical attackers makes it much more useful on any given team. While Pangoro can break defensive builds marginally better, Bewear's ability to soft check physical attackers is much more useful at the moment.

Shaymin has moved down because it struggles in breaking defensive cores with its standard sets and distinguishing itself in other ways. While Leech Seed sets can be annoying, they're easy enough to play around, while Life Orb sets compete with Roserade, which is far more difficult to counter.

Linoone wasn't discussed, but should have moved down once Aurora Veil was banned. It has quite a bit of difficulty setting up, while its priority is much less useful now that Sharpedo is banned.

Torkoal moved down because it isn't significantly better than Ninetales even on full sun, and Venusaur moved down alongside it because it makes no sense to keep it ranked above either of the sun setters.

Discussion Points:

Durant up to A
Tsareena Unranked
Registeel down to A
Jellicent up to B
 
I'm going to make a controversial nomination please don't kill me lol.

Feraligatr: A+ to S
Frankly, Feraligatr is a monster. The banning of Sharpedo let it claim the title of best water type in the tier. While Decidueye seems like a major problem for Feraligatr, it is slower and get OHKOed by an unboosted Crunch because of sheer force. Under rain, the power of a boosted sheer force waterfall is absolutely ridiculous, being able to OHKO so many Pokemon. It also has Ice Punch to better deal with the grass types like Chesnaught, arguably the best answer to this beast. It also has decent 85/100/83 bulk so it can usually tank a hit before setting up. Even at +1, Feraligatr is a complete wrecking ball with waterfall, and is meta defining enough to be S rank in my opinion.

Kommo-o: A- to A
Kommo-o is pretty great right now. It's specs set is very hard to switch in to especially with 110/120 STABs. It can break through Mega Abomasnow with flamethrower and focus blast and nukes Mega Ampharos with clanging scales. After Nidoqueen was reintroduced into the tier, Fairy types have seen a major decrease in usage, so Kommo-o has more chances to shine. Ice types don't really like to switch into Kommo-o either because of Flamethrower and Focus blast. Overall a really solid Pokemon and should definitely rise.

Milotic: A to A-
While still a good Pokemon in RU, Decidueye gives it tons of problems, especially the Grassium-Z sets. It really can't do much to Decidueye beside Scald and Toxic and hope for the best. Mega Abomasnow, Chesnaught, Shaymin and Roserade are all threats to Milotic and All of them are A rank and above. I understand that it can run ice beam, but this gives it 4MSS and it can't run a more valuable move like haze or refresh. It also is vulnerable to status like Toxic which it can olny cure with refresh. It is kind of struggling in the current metagame and isn't really what it used to be.
 
Durant A- to A: Agree

I feel like Durant didn't get too much attention this generation so far, being overshadowed by the UU mons dropping from Oras. Taking a look at the pokemon in the S to A ranks in the ranking, Durant beats the majority off them with it's stabs, Superpower and Crunch. While Durant has a good portion of counterplay in this meta, actually most of it's checks can be defeated with the right coverage moves and I think the metagame shifted in Durants favor lately. Let's take a look at Durants most common counters:

Fire Types: aren't as common or versatile like they've been in earlier stages of the metagame, Camerupt-M and Emboar dropped down in viability. The only Fire Types in S to A- rank are Moltres and Salazzle, and Moltres gets killed by a Rock Slide while Salazzle beats Durant for sure.

Doublade: Basically beats every Durant variant without Crunch, namely the Choice Scarf set. Life Orb Durant has a good chance to 2HKO Doublade, and Hone Claws Darkinium Z Durant beats Doublade anyways. While being forced to run Crunch isn't a great thing, losing at least one of X-Scissor, Rock Slide and Hone Claws depending on the set. But 2 of 3 common Durant sets can beat Doublade.
Bulky Water Types: Aren't as common anymore with Mantine leaving the tier a time ago. While Milotic can be beaten by using the uncommon Z-Thunder Fang Set or , Quagsire beats Durant all the time.

252 Atk Hustle Durant Gigavolt Havoc (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 136 Def Milotic: 360-424 (91.3 - 107.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Gligar I feel is more problematic for Durant than Doublade, because none of it's common sets can beat Gligar, allowing it to setup Rocks or Defog, there's still an option to beat Gligar with Durant by using the Hone Claws Set with a Steelium Z or by going for the Darkinium Z Hone Claws and just using Iron Head. This might be a little over the top in a VR post, but assuming you go for Hone Claws while Gligar switches in or uses one of it's utility moves:

Darkinium: +2 252 Atk Hustle Durant Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 160-190 (47.9 - 56.8%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO

Steelium: +1 252 Atk Hustle Durant Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 241-285 (72.1 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Hustle Durant Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 121-144 (36.2 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Durant beats a lot of the bulky/defensive pokemon in the tier, Registeel, Snorlax, Doublade if running Life Orb or Z-Crystal with Crunch, Cresselia, Umbreon, Gigalith and Milotic if running Z-Thunder Fang.
 
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