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RU X/Y speculation, a look into the possible future

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Silvershadow234, Nov 9, 2013.

  1. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
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    Hello. Here you can discuss / theorymon the xy ru metagame. A HUGE amount will change, which is why I've decided to make a new thread instead of using the current ru theorymon thread. Anyway, onto the changes you can discuss:

    Potential new additions:
    Show Hide

    New XY additions
    Pangoro
    Malamar
    Clawitzer
    Tyrantrum(pre rock head)
    Delphox
    Slurpuff
    Heliolisk
    Vivillon
    Gogoat
    Hawlucha
    Pyroar
    Aromatisse
    Aurorus
    Furfrou
    Avalugg
    Doublade
    Dedenne
    Carbink

    OU / UU dropdowns:

    Krookodile
    Mismagius
    Registeel
    Scrafty
    Milotic
    Ambipom
    Porygon-Z
    Sharpedo
    Yanmega
    Venomoth
    Cresselia
    Toxicroak

    Note: these pokes are either: low in usage in uu right now, not particularly good in uu right or have been nerfed substantially.

    Important mechanic chances:
    Show Hide
    Move changes(namely defog)
    Move base power changes
    Sleep status being altered(doesn't reset after switching, guaranteed one turn sleep)
    Fairy type has been introduced
    Steel no longer resists ghost and dark
    Ability changes(infiltrator, auto weather abilities only last for 5 turns now)


    Pokemon that will presumably move up out of RU:
    Show Hide
    Scolipede
    Aggron
    Clefable
    Kangaskhan
    Galvantula
    Smeargle
    Kabutops
    Mandibuzz
    Ampharos
    Pinsir


    Pokemon Buffs:
    Show Hide
    Crawdaunt(Aqua Jet as egg move, Crabhammer power boost, Knock Off buff)
    Chatot(100% confusion chatter, boomburst)
    Exploud(boomburst)
    Manectric(mega evolution)
    Bannette(mega evolution)
    Entei(confirmed for sacred fire)
    Aerodactyl(mega evolution)
    Combusken(can run baton pass and speed boost)
    Granbull(fairy type)
    Many pokemon such as poliwrath and stoutland got slight stat changes

    Here is an example post:

    Finally, credit to users: Molk, atomicllamas and Soulgazer for co-writing the thread.
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2013
  2. Turtleye

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    I can see Sleep absorbers getting a lot less usesage now sleep got nerfed pretty big. The biggest amount of sleep inducers in RU used to run Spore or Sleep powder. Because they are grass moves, grass types are immune to them. This is backed up by teh fact RU used to have a lot of good grass types like Sceptile, Amoonguss and Tangrwoth who often found their places on a team. Also put in the new (or old, for that matter) sleep counterand you have to be alot less frightened by Sleep.

    Thus, I feel that sleep will be a significant less threat when it comes to teambuilding. The sleep counter nerf might make Rest on a 'mon more popular as a healing move but I don't know for sure. But I feel that some pokemon will start running different status moves over Sleep Powder/Spore.

    Now I'm not saying Sleep will not/hardlly be used in the new Meta, It's just that I think people arle less likely to run sleep powder/spore due to it's nerfs, and as a result sleep absorbing will be having lower priority whilst teambuilding.
  3. Molk

    Molk tfw zoroark
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    One Pokemon that i'm very intrigued to see in x/y RU is Pangoro. While some people are underwhelmed by Pangoro's stats and movepool in the higher tiers (No priority, stats lower than expected etc) and Fairy nerfed Dark/Fighting a bit as a typing, i could definitely see Pangoro functioning very well in the RU tier. Parting Shot is a pretty awesome move for grabbing set up opportunities, and with literally no competition for the role as far as we know, low Speed, and decent bulk, Pangoro could use Parting Shot to become an effective offensive pivot. It could take a hit from several opponents without a super effective move with its decent 95/78/71 bulk, then use a slow Parting Shot to get a dangerous set up sweeper in for free, such as say Hone Claws Durant if that stays in the tier (Durant beats fairies too!). Alternatively, Pangoro's power would let it force quite a few switches, potentially giving it free opportunities to Parting Shot and give the Pangoro user the switch advantage. Outside of Parting Shot, Pangoro could use its great base 124 Attack stat (only one lower than Gallade's!), Iron Fist ability, and nerfed but still decent STAB combination to serve as a viable Choice Band user, breaking through all but the bulkiest of threats with Iron Fist boosted Hammer Arms (same BP as Close Combat with Iron Fist boost, 2HKO's Tangrowth after Stealth Rock and with proper investment can still outspeed after the Speed drop!). So, what do you all think of Pangoro? Do you agree that it'll be a solid threat? or do you think it'll end up being underwhelming in the end?

    EDIT: I'm also quite interested in the idea of using Gogoat in RU. It has great bulk, a good Attack stat, reliable recovery, and a decent physical movepool to work with, so i could definitely see it being a solid threat. I'm especially interested in the possibility of a SubBU Gogoat, akin to SubBU Gallade.
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2013
  4. kokoloko

    kokoloko yes, this is dog.
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    lol i think pangoro will end up in uu, not ru, tbh. parting shot is the best setup support move in the game (cmon its like u-turn + memento how broken is that?) and it has iron first poison jab to shit on the only things that resist its stabs. at first i thought scarf would be best but then we found its Speed to be 58 as opposed to 70, so now i'm thinking a bulky cb set would be better. scarf stilll outspeeds base 110s (and tornadus at 111 probs?) so it'll still be ok.

    there's also the fact that its a panda and i lead uu so im thinking it'll be uu yep yep.

    im rly looking forward to that nice scrappy boomburst though!!
    Magcargo 2 likes this.
  5. Turtleye

    Turtleye

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    Also I think Heliolisk is pretty interesting. I tried to run a Specs set with Parabolic Charge, Vswitch, Surf and a filler. Heliolisks stats are pretty decent, it's about the same as manectric, but with one big difference: It has acces to Surf. Manectric wasoften forced to run HP Ice in order to defeat it's checks in the form of Ground Types. As HP got a nerf, that option has become less usefull for him. But Heliolisk has acces to Surf which lets him deal with Ground types comfortably.
    However, Heliolisks only flaw is it's inability to hit Grass types effectively, as it doesnt get a Fire move coming in the form of Overheat/Flamethrower. heliolisk is kinda forced to run HP Ice for grasses, or something like Dark Pulse/Focus Blast.

    To summarize this, I think Heliolisk and Manectric will become opponents in the teambuilding phase. Both have about equal stats, are capable of running Scarf and Specs to a succes due to their acess to Vswitch, are Electric Typing and have the inability to hit either grass or ground types. The choice will probably depend on the team itself, as I haven't seen any teams focusing around Manectric in the past gen RU.
  6. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas Pope Druddigon the 420th
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    So I included somethings on the suggestion thing that I think are relevant, but didn't necessarily get a huge mention in the OP. One NFE from past gens that is totally way more viable now is Combusken, who finally got access to that nice speed boost and baton pass combo, expect it to be far more relevant, as it has good defenses with eviolite, high powered STABs to make up for its meh attacking stats, and SB + Baton Pass. (Edit: oh this was in the OP, nice).

    Poliwrath also got way better due to the change in sleep mechanics, and the 10 boost in base attack is nice for hitting stuff with circle throw harder I guess (why no Special D boost gamefreak ;-; ). This thing no longer really needs heal bell support, and can find an easier place on Balance teams, instead of full, or semi stall.

    Turtleye I totally agree sleep absorbers will become less relevant, not only due to grass types being able to ignore it (cause lets face it, you aren't switching your Tangrowth into Amoonguss), but rather because smeargle will be moving up to UU or OU with its semi-exclusive access to sticky web, which is a cool af move. Also, imo, Manectric will be running HP Grass 100% of the time this gen, as it hits a lot of ground types for 4x effective damage (Rhydon, Quagsire, Seismitoad) and 60 bp isn't high enough for the "neutral coverage" of HP ice that was sometimes worth it this gen. I think that Manectric is better than Heliolisk, as I would rather have overheat on a choice mon, but Heliolisk has like 8 amazeballs abilities, so both will see use.

    Also credited in OP, pro.
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2013
  7. Organization Member XIV

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    I'm definitely interested to see what RU will be like with all these changes. However, isn't it a little early to assume that Entei gets Sacred Fire just because of the one trainer in the Battle Maison? We've seen illegal move sets on trainer Pokemon in the past, so confirmed for sacred fire makes it sound like that's a guarantee. On a different note Crawdaunt seems really cool with the power buff to Knock Off and Crabhammer, as well as getting Aqua Jet as an Egg Move.
  8. Magcargo 2

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    Aerodactyl seems like its going to be an amazing Pokemon in RU this gen thanks to its new stat buff in its mega form. It now has increased defenses, allowing it to check a greater amount of Pokemon, greater Speed, allowing it out revenge kill a greater portion of the metagame and higher attack, with a pretty useful ability in Tough Claws. Here is the set that I assume will be its most popular:
    Note: All of this is assuming the the Pokemon in the OP will be in RU
    [​IMG]
    All-Out-Attacker
    Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
    Ability: Tough Claws
    EVs: 236 Spd / 252 Atk / 20 HP OR 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def (depends on whether you choose Adamant or Jolly respectively).
    Adamant / Jolly Nature
    - Stone Edge
    - Aerial Ace
    - Earthquake / Aqua Tail
    - Fire Fang / Defog / Stealth Rock / Roost

    Mega Aerodactyl improved Speed and Attack, as well as its lack of LO recoil make it an even better candidate than regular Aerodactyl for an Offensive role. Stone Edge function as Aerodactyl's main attacking option, OHKOing Delphox, Mismagius, Ambipom, and Rotom-N. Thanks to TC 33% boost, Aerial Ace is essentially a 80 Base Power STAB moves and not only does it 2HKO Tangrowth after SR with an Adamant nature, but it also OHKOes Venemoth, Yanmega, Scarfty, Gallade, Lilligant and a plethora of other mons. Earthquake is used in the third slot to hit Steel-, Poison-, and Rock-types for Super Effective damage. Aqua Tail has the benefit of receiving a TC boost and hits Steelix and Rhydon harder than EQ, but its imperfect accuracy and inability to hit most Steel-types for super effective damage makes it the inferior option. Fire Fang is the best option in the final slot to hit Escavalier and Durant for super effective damage, but Defog and SR can be used if you prefer Aerodactyl to support you team, while Roost mitigates SR damage.

    An Adamant nature is preferred over the Jolly Nature, as it allows Aerodactyl to 2HKO Tangrowth with Aerial Ace, become stronger than standard LO Aerodactyl and still outpace maximum Speed base 130s after Mega evolving. However a Jolly allows Aerodactyl to outpace + maximum speed base 80s, Accelgor, and Adamant +2 Scrafty.

    Along with providing support for offensive teams, this set also has the benefit of checking Pokemon such as Moltres, Offensive Venemoth, Speed Boost Yanmega and CM entei by virtue of Mega-Aerodactyl's typing, defenses, and Speed.

    Other sets
    There a lot of other viable sets Aerodactyl can run that I haven't listed. A defensive set could potentially be viable, as it can wall threats such as Moltres, Yanmega, and most fire-types thanks to Aerodactyl's amazing speed, decent defensive typing, and above average defenses in Mega form, as well as a repertory of key support moves such a defog, Taunt and SR. Aerodactyl also has its classic Lead and LO sets if your interested in using another Mega.

    Conclusion
    Despite the introduction of several new threats, such as AJ Crawdaunt and Doublade, that are now able to defeat Aerodactyl with little difficulty, I believe that Aerodactyl will have a significant impact on the metagame thanks to its Mega evolution's increased stats. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the Aerodactylite gets banned from RU, as Mega-Aerodactyl may appear to be to much for the tier to handle thanks to its increased Speed and Attack.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2013
  9. Magcargo 2

    Magcargo 2
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    Sorry for double posting, but there are a couple of Pokemon I want to get out of the way

    [​IMG]
    Crawdaunt looks like its going to be a pretty solid Pokemon this gen. Back in late BW2 RU, Crawdaunt struggled in the metagame due to its terrible Speed, being outsped and OHKOed by common threats such as Gallade, Hitmonchan, and Rotom-C before a Dragon Dance. Even after a Dragon Dance, it was still outsped by dangerous threats such as Sceptile. This, combined with its below average bulk, made it an unappealing option on most teams.

    Luckily, Gamefreak answered Crawdaunt Speed problem by giving it Aqua Jet, allowing it to defeat nearly all of these speedy Pokemon. The only things I can think of that don't die to an Adamant +1 LO Aqua Jet after SR and are naturally faster are Dry Skin Heliolisk, Dry Skin Jynx, and Sceptile. Crawdaunt also got what is essentially a 25% more powerful main STAB attack in Crabbhammer, giving it an easier time sweeping with DD, and a buffed Knock Off giving it an easier time against Ferroseed.

    I presume that its 3 main sets will be SubSD, DD, and CB. SubSD is pretty much going to be of of the best Stallbreakers in the metagame thanks to that sexy 200 BP Crabhammer and its buffed up Dark STAB. DD is more geared against offensive teams, using Crawdaunts's new Aqua Jet to defeat many of its faster checks. Finally there's CB, which functions similarly to CB Dragonite, in which Crawdaunt either wallbreaks with Crabhammer / Crunch or Revenge kills with Aqua Jet.

    The only downside that I can Crawdaunt gaining is Toxicroak potentially being brought down to RU and even then, it can't switch into to many Crunches and live to tell the tale. Overall, I believe Crawdaunt is going to be a very good Pokemon in RU and I wouldn't be surprised if it moves up to a higher tier with the new buffs it received.

    [​IMG]
    Clawiter is an interesting Pokemon in RU. It has a colorful move pool with options such as U-turn, Aura Sphere, Dark Pulse, and Ice Beam and an amazing base 120 Special Attack, but an Abysmal base 59 Speed stat and average bulk. Its U-turn access, however, makes it appear to be a good Choice user, as it can switch out of a potential counter. As such I believe that its two main sets would be a Choice Scarf set and a Choice Specs set.

    A Choice Scarf set can function as a very decent sweeper. Mega Launcher boost the power of most of its coverage moves to 120 BP and Clawitzer is able to outpace every thing up to max Speed base 110s with a Timid nature. Scarf Clawitzer one of the best DD Crawdaunt checks in the game, as it resist AJ and can OHKO with Aura Sphere. U-turn also is pretty cool for Volturn shenanigans. A Choice Specs set on the other hand boast incredible power. Specs Hydro Pump is really powerful, 2HKOing anything that doesn't resist it after SR. Even most of those resist get 2HKOed by either Ice Beam, Aura Sphere, and Dark Pulse.

    Obviously Clawitzer has flaws that will affect its usage. It abysmal Speed means that it will be maimed by common mons like Scarf Rotom, Sceptile, and Scarf Manetric, while Pokemon such as Heliolisk and Toxicroak are able to switch into Clawitzer's Water STAB and either OHKO it with and use it as setup bait respectively. Despite these flaws, Clawitzer seems like it going to be a very good addition to the RU tier thanks to its amazing power and movepool.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2013
  10. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas Pope Druddigon the 420th
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    Since this thread has kind of died out, I was wondering what you all think weather is going to be like in RU next gen. It is very likely that at least one of the fully evolved hail inducers will be RU gen 6, but it is also likely that Vulpix and Hippopotas will be allowed, as the weather nerf makes banning drought, snow warning, and sand stream less likely. You may have limited turns to work with, but I could definitely see offensive weather teams becoming a thing in RU.

    Sun has a buffed Entei and Moltres (now with defog support!) as fire type sun abusers and potential back up sun setters, as well as Sawsbuck and Victreebel to take advantage of chlorophyll.

    Sand really only has a (buffed) Stoutland and Sandslash to work with, but that may be enough to overwhelm some RU teams.

    Hail will likely have one FE inducer and the same abusers as last gen (sans Walrein thank god). So that will likely be a good playstyle still.

    Any thoughts on viability of weather or weather sweepers in gen 6 RU?
  11. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
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    I feel that hail will be rlly bad in the 6th generation. Walrein and subtect glaceon are now terrible considering only 8 turn hail, while things like rotom-f are only scary for 7 turn(considering the switch in from snover -> frotom), and then its mediocre. And of course, you have to run shit ass freeze rock snover which is a complete waste of a teamslot. As far as sun and sand go, I still don't kno. I expect sun to be slightly better / the same viability as last gen, considering things like prankster volbeat perform an incredibly similar job to vulpix and is more useful with encore / u-turn. Moltres did benefit from defog yes, but I don't think that will make sun better as a playstyle considering moltres can be a huge pain for sun to deal with Hurricane also becomes worse in sun. Entei got buffed with sacred fire(although this may or may not be available come xy release and may not be available with espeed), but again this hurts sun as well as helps it. I don't expect sand to be better than sun / rain considering the only decent abuser it has is stoutland, so yeah overall I don't see auto-weather inducers playing a big part in xy ru.
  12. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas Pope Druddigon the 420th
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    Hail was assuming Aurorus or Abomasnow dropped (Aurorus is in the op), otherwise, yeah it will suck.
    garcia1570 likes this.
  13. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
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    ah ok. Well aurorus still doesn't look particularly good(better than mighty vulpix tho),but ye it will make hail slightly more viable. I still don't think it will be that good however, as the 8 turn limit ruins walrein and subtect glaceon, and ye frotom / other hail mons are bad / mediocre without hail up.
  14. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    Clawitzer's moves are pretty strong and can be difficult to wall, but I think it may suffer competition with Samurott, who has comparable wallbreaking prowess, but has access to Hydro Pump, which slightly outdamages Clawitzer's Mega Launcher Water Pulse, and moves like Superpower and Megahorn to hit specially bulky threats that Clawitzer cannot. Clawitzer does have U-turn though which can set it apart, but these two are pretty similiar in terms of potential wallbreaking Water-types.
  15. Morbid Mind

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    From these I only think Vivillion, Clawitzer, Pangoro, Carbink, Doublade and Avalugg are almost sure for RU (Carbink for NU, but still).
    Malamar is B-List UU worth with Contrary for Sticky Web and Superpower.
    Hawlucha is too good to be RU, he will have his own home in UU, probably.
    The other ones I don't really know.
    Melons-N-Soda likes this.
  16. Rohail

    Rohail Vaporeon <3
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    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Name: Manectric
    Type: Electric
    Ability: Static / Lightningrod / Minus (DW)
    Base Stats: 70 / 75 / 60 / 105 / 60 / 105
    MEvo Type: Electric
    MEvo Ability: Intimidate
    MEvo Stats: 70 / 75 / 80 / 135 / 80 / 135

    Manectric was already good in BW RU, but in XY RU, it will be a strong force to be reckoned with. With its new-found Mega Evolution, Manectric becomes the ideal special sweeper with excellent 75 / 135 / 135 offensive stats. It has a pretty good movepool, getting decent coverage with Fire + Electric, even though it is resisted by common Pokemon such as Druddigon and Rhydon. Manectric's only weakness, Ground, is also somewhat mitigated by Intimidate, as most Ground-type attacks are physically-based. Furthermore, Manectric's defenses aren't bad, sitting at a humble 70 / 80 /80. I can totally see Manectric being an excellent revenge killer (especially to physical attackers) and late-game cleaner. Unfortunately, it is pretty limited in its roles, therefore being predictable. I say this because Manectric doesn't get any good boosting moves (Howl is godawful), and due to the necessity of holding Manectite, it can't use Choice items or Life Orb (which it'd either be stronger or faster with than in its Mega Evolution form). Despite this, Manectric will still be a great stop to common physical attackers such as Emboar, Archeops, and Durant, while also punching holes in the opposing team with its huge Special Attack stat.
  17. Explorer

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    One set I use for Throh is the Rest/Sleep Talk/Bulk Up/Circle Throw in NU, so I extended this to Pangoro with 252 HP/4 Def/252 SpD careful. Pangoro's advantage over Throh here is Scrappy, letting Circle Throw hit Ghost-types and making a mono-Fighting moveset usable. More offensive sets have their advantages, and I like the Parting Shot + Hone Claws Durant combo. The two have excellent synergy.

    Other Pokemon:

    Entei: Sacred Fire? THAT coupled with access to Iron Head to smash around Fairy-types, this one is moving up. Enough said. Morning Sun would be nice though...

    Avalugg: The design is awesome, but from experience it is bad competitively. Most special moves destroy it, and it is too slow to spin effectively. On the bright side, Avalanche has potential as an excellent STAB move with Avalugg's horrendous speed, and Recover is always welcome. The typing prompts me to select another Pokemon as a physical wall.

    Escavalier: Things are looking good for this one. With HP Fire getting a power cut and the introduction of Fairy-types, Escavalier becomes that much harder to stop. It can be used in all the same ways as Gen 5: Trick Room sweeper, Pursuit trapper, SD, Chesto-Rest, and so on. Will it move to UU? I'm not sure yet, but it will be a force to reckon with if it stays in RU.

    Also, how will Hawlucha be RU? It's basically a superior version of Hitmonlee with SD, Roost, and a useful secondary STAB. And keep in mind, Hitmonlee was my #1 sweeper over the course of Gen 5 RU.
  18. Rohail

    Rohail Vaporeon <3
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    [​IMG]
    Name: Avalugg
    Type: Ice
    Ability: Own Tempo / Ice Body / Sturdy (HA)
    Base Stats: 95 / 117 / 184 / 44 / 46 / 28

    There is little to no reason to use Avalugg at all in RU. It has a horrible defensive typing and an even worse Special Defense stat; couple that all with its low Speed and we've got a pretty vulnerable Pokemon here. It can use Assault Vest I guess, but then it needs to forgo the extremely important Recover. I'd rather use Cryogonal for an Ice-type that can spin, even though it is weaker than Avalugg. Cryogonal's Speed and Levitate ability give it a chance to pull off a successful spin, and it has the option to use Reflect to patch up its weaker Defense, while Avalugg doesn't have Light Screen. Cryogonal also gets Recover, securing its place as the better Ice-type spinner in RU.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    [​IMG]
    Name: Hawlucha
    Type: Fighting / Flying
    Ability: Limber / Unburden / Mold Breaker (Hidden Ability)
    Base Stats: 78 / 92 / 75 / 74 / 63 / 118

    As for Hawlucha, I think it'd do pretty good in RU. With the combination of STAB Power-Up Punch boosting its Attack and Unburden boosting its Speed, Hawlucha will be a fearsome sweeper. The only thing is, what can we use to activate Unburden with? Who knows if the Gems will be transferable through Pokebank (hopefully they will), so without them, we'll be forced to use Berries instead. I guess that can work with Substitute + Roost, but how much coverage does that leave? And Hawlucha's bulk doesn't look too promising either. If Gems are not transferable, then Hawlucha can still make-do with a good base 118 Speed, and Power-Up Punch won't be affected at all (unless we were planning on using a Fighting Gem, ofc). Besides, its other abilities (Limber and Mold Breaker) are also pretty usable, leaving it with many options. Its typing is also pretty good offensively, letting Hawlucha get past pesky physical walls such as Tangrowth and Amoonguss. Poison Jab can be used to get past Fairies as well. Revenge killers will immediately spell doom for it though, as it is pretty frail. Despite that, if Hawlucha actually drops to RU, it'll be a great Pokemon to use.
  19. AJC

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    hawlucha does also have hone claws that allows it to make High jump kick and bounce never miss after one boost and for those who want to go more aggressively it also has swords dance.
  20. Silvershadow234

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    js there is no question about whether gems will be transferable from bw-they won't. The only way we might possibly get gems is through an event of some sort, which is the main reason I thought hawlucha would be ru(plus the fact it has no good flying STAB).
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  21. Morbid Mind

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    Ok so if gems aren't transferable then yes, Hawlucha will be RU since his Acrobatics can't do wonders.
    I hope he can be a good sweeper with Hone Claws HJK+StoneEdge combo that he won't miss or pure power by using SD Hawlucha. But his lack of good flying STAB is going to hurt him a lot.

    Vivillion is going to be a glass cannon, more accurate version of Venomoth, it will be hard be she will find a place in RU.

    I bet Clawtzier will be an awesome Trick Room Special Sweeper.

    Carbink is going to be a good support since he has access to SR + Screens + Trick Room.

    Doublade is going to be a really good Physical Wall due to Eviolite, but Knockoff buffs can really cripple him.
  22. Celever

    Celever

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    [​IMG]

    I'm actually pretty damn excited for Avalugg in RU. In Pokebank OU I tried a team with Avalugg, Slowking and Aromatisse core - Avalugg was the physical pivot, Slowking the special and Aromatisse was the Trick Room setter. The catch is that Avalugg was Choice Band and Slowking was Choice Specs, Aromatisse was just there to set up the Trick Room and be another Pokemon to possibly take special hits when needed. The thing is, is that Slowking and Avalugg have really good synergy with eachother. Ice obviously has some pretty dangerous weaknesses (fire, fighting, steel and rock) but Slowking resists three of those (missing out on rock), Avalugg can't say that same for Slowking but Aromatisse can! At least, Aromatisse can take Dark attacks and maybe Bug (I can't remember if fairy resists bug rn but it would make sense to me). The rest of the team can have support to take the Ghost, Grass, Electric Type moves but really it is a pretty great core and something I look forward to using at some point.

    Cresselia is still going to be an interesting Pokemon since there is no doubt she is always a powerhouse, in every stint she has had in RU, being banned several times. Mono-Psychic typing isn't that good defensively, with weaknesses to bug, ghost and dark, but it's not terrible either since those types aren't particularly common. The main move people think of with Psychic-Type Pokemon defensively is "Pursuit" but Cresselia takes Pursuit like nothing, even on a switch. Of course, Drapion's niche has always been to come in and take Cresselia out easily, but there is another Pokemon who I feel will have some merit against Cresselia - Malamar. Malamar can potentially abuse Cresselia as set-up bait with its immunity to her Psychic-Type attacks. However Malamar is rather weak to Toxic and other nasty tricks that Cresselia commonly runs, so it's not exactly fool-proof. Either way Malamar can Superpower a couple of times against Cresselia and then hammer her with a Night Slash!
    +2 252+ Atk Malamar Night Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cresselia: 338-402 (88.7 - 105.5%)
    Clearly, not a clean KO and Cresselia does have Moonlight so maybe you'll need Superpower 3 times, but either way Malamar will be a pretty good check to Cresselia this gen.

    Yanmega is a Pokemon I am excited to use though. Basically unresisted attacks (Bug Buzz has few 4x resists, but in RU right now there are:
    Moltres, Hawlucha, a bunch of bug/flying types and Doublade I think. I don't know if there are any more viable ones but I feel like Yanmega could be a little over-centralizing. The most reliable counter to Yanmega would be Mega-Pinsir - Aerilate Quick Attack:

    252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yanmega: 242-288 (77.3 - 92%)
    Not too shabby at all, but obviously Mega Pinsir isn't in the tier so that's merely hearsay. Besides that the most reliable counter to Yanmega would have to be Moltres - it resists Bug Buzz, Air Slash (well Air Slash is neutral with Tinted Lens) AND Giga Drain and has either Fire Blast or Hurricane to maul Yanmega with. I honestly feel like Yanmega and Moltres will end up as Top S rank together!

    Custap Berry Tyrantrum is a serious threat in OU and will probably become the standard in RU. The idea is basically: Set up Stealth Rock/Hit something hard get knocked in <25% and then do the other thing. The guy IS a suicide lead, but he can also run bulky spreads with Head Smash and basically be better than Aggron was at it. Quite simply I feel like Tyrantrum is gonna replace Aggron's niche as a bulky SR setter/Banded Head Smash spammer since it has better dual STAB (Dragon Claw) and still has EdgeQuake coverage, with the Edge replaced by Smash. SmashQuake sounds much better. Anyway, Tyrantrum has pretty good synergy in RU with Moltres (yeah Moltres is getting a seriously healthy meta this gen) as the only thing that Moltres doesn't resist (or is immune to) that Tyrantrum is weak to is Ice, which it hits neutrally.
  23. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
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    ye I agree cress and yanmega will be huge threats if they drop. Malamar is a nice check to cress, and thanks to psychic STAB also does decently well against poliwrath and qwilfish(gets rekt by esca and durant though).

    Anyway, my question is how much will the defog buff affect the tier? Removing entry hazards is huge in a tier that has so many good hazard setters, as well as stellar spin blockers such as rotom, spiritomb and golurk. One poke that I could see making good use of defog is strangely golbat. Golbat has rlly nice defenses with eviolite, and it now walls the vast majority of fairies and 4x resists bug, which could be crucial if yanmega drops. It's main issue was stealth rock, but with defog of its own it can clear hazards and make switching in much easier, which inevitably changes a lot of 2HKO's and 1HKO's into 3HKO's and 2HKO's respectively. Obviously, the big benefitter of the defog mechanics is obviously moltres. Moltres is pretty damn scary with sr up, but terrifying without as it doesn't have a limited number of switchin. Nor does it have to roost off damage nearly as often, so yeah moltres becomes a LOT scarier. So how do you guys think defog will affect the metagame?
  24. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas Pope Druddigon the 420th
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    I think that Hawlucha still has a couple of tricks up its sleeve, first off it could still take advantage of acrobatics with the following set:

    Hawlucha @ Liechi Berry
    Ability: Unburden
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Acrobatics
    - High Jump Kick
    - Stone Edge / Swords Dance
    - Substitute

    Kind of like endure reversal Hitmonlee, except not absolute shit, cause if played correctly you can get to +2 Speed and +1 Attack while behind a substitute, making it an absolute pain to take out. Stone Edge has good coverage with High Jump Kick and Acrobatics while Swords Dance could be used for +3 attack, but Stone Edge would be preferred.

    Hawlucha @ Leftovers / Liechi Berry
    Ability: Limber / Unburden
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Substitute
    - Flying Press
    - Encore
    - Baton Pass

    Encore + Sub pass is pro af, and Hawlucha can take it a couple different ways, with unburden and Liechi to pass attack boost quickly if switches in on the wrong move, or with lefties and limber to switch in on T-Wave and Sub pass. Flying Press cause decent neutral coverage, and lol, why not.

    Hawlucha @ Choice Band
    Ability: Limber / Unburden
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - U-turn
    - High Jump Kick
    - Stone Edge
    - Acrobatics

    Limber band seems like a cool option for Hawlucha as it is already pretty fast, and could use a little bit of extra power. Access to U-turn, SR neutrality, and HJK which will hit like a freakin nuke all are pros for Choice Band. Arobatics and Unburden are there because Hawlucha is good switch in to knock off, while Limber is probably just a little more useful.

    Idk those just seem like some sets that Hawlucha could potentially run in RU, although the second one is only situationally useful.

    Avalugg is gonna be pretty bad imo :[, it has poor SpD, terrible typing for its stats, and is slow af.
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2013
  25. col49

    col49 unpolished
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    I believe I've mentioned my stance on the matter of defog before(?), but I suppose I'll mention what I consider to be the overall impact of the move on the metagame. As a matter of generality, the addition of Defog will somewhat devalue [Toxic] Spikes, but they will remain necessities to certain team structures. Stealth Rock will, needless to say, remain a staple of essentially every competitive team, since the value and distribution of the move (especially considering RU will be established upon the release of PokeBank, removing those constraints currently set on tiers for an SR 'mon) is easily worth the one-turn investment, regardless of what playstyle is utilized. In terms of Spikes and Toxic Spikes, these moves will definitely see play on balanced and stall-inclined playstyle, where the added residual damage they instate are crucial to the success and overall "goal" of their archetype, but offensive [Toxic] Spikes usage will be hurt substantially; while offensive formats from earlier generations could support these hazards through the use of offensive pressure / momentum, spin-blockers, and even more "unorthodox" responses, such as Explosion / Memento users, this generation robs such teams of the latter two methods as universal means to maintaining such hazards, putting them at a stark disadvantage. While it doesn't necessarily restrict such playstyles from functioning in their entirety, as not all teams will build with a Defog user and alternatives builds can be exercised to better combat these issues, more classic options, such as Lead Smeargle, lose value significantly with this shift.

    In terms of Defog usage, I can see it being utilized on essentially every team to some extent, depending on individual necessity. Stall teams, for one, come across as a format that should almost always be giving heavy consideration to a Defog user. While some might argue that this is counter-productive, I would argue that Defog is exercised at its fullest for such builds. For one, stall inherently is geared towards maintaining their own team, such that they can more effectively wall the opposing Pokemon, therefore the ability to reset hazards holds much more value to them than harm, as they should (in theory) being able to set them up once more with far more comfort. Furthermore, the distribution of Defog is much more kind to Stall than Rapid Spin ever was. I know that I, as well as a handful of other players that ever delved into RU stall, were very often upset upon having to "settle" on Cryogonal for their Rapid Spin user, as it is innately a rather mediocre defensive Pokemon, one that offers very little further utility or defensive value beyond a mediocre special wall (outside the Hail era, in which it was slightly more valuable on its own) and spinner. In contrast, Defog has significantly better distribution, with multiple recipients of the move, many of whom retain even further defensive utility / "application", which gives defensively-inclined teams much more flexibility with their teamslots when accounting for hazard control. Of course, balanced and offensive formats will also find use in this, though the latter would risk a noticeable loss in offensive momentum, and could similarly "control hazards" with offensive pressure and maintaining momentum. Notwithstanding, the added assurance could prove useful, and will still see some use imo.

    tl;dr:
    • Stall / Balanced teams will still utilize [Toxic] Spikes on a fairly regular basis
    • [Heavy / Hyper] Offense will utilize [Toxic] Spikes significantly less
    • Stealth Rock will remain a staple for any and every team
    • Defog use will be highest in Stall formats, though all archetypes can find use for it to some extent
    I'll eventually get around to sharing thoughts on other aspects of this, but I just wanted to share my thoughts on this matter atm, maybe stir up some further discussion there '-'

    edit: Also SubPass Hawlucha is amazing and a true luchador, I will love everyone if they let him drop to RU :]

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