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RU X/Y speculation, a look into the possible future

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Silvershadow234, Nov 9, 2013.

  1. Tahu

    Tahu

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    So now that Sacred Fire is confirmed on Entei, it seems likely that it will move up out of RU. How will the tier be affected by the loss of Entei? What will replace it as RU's premier Fire-type? Personally I think either Emboar or Moltres, but we won't be able to tell until the tier starts.
  2. Chenkovsky

    Chenkovsky

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    Has this been confirmed? NPCs have had Pokemon with moves they can't learn before. If it gets it by level up it will allow it to run jolly and then I think it might be a little to powerful for ru. If it does move up it will affect emboar more than moltres, as moltres runs a substantially different role to entei as although there are difference like the fact emboar is primarily a scarf'd revenge killer they do mostly like to spam flare blitz although emboar does get better coverage options.

    Also if pyroar is ru we have yet to know how it will interact as an offensive fire type.
  3. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    Confirmed as move relearner. I'm not convinced it will move up but its definitely interesting for the coming tier.
  4. speed ghilliesniper

    speed ghilliesniper

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    Sacred fire is a pretty big boon to Entei's moovepool, as the 50% burn chance is huge for wearing down most all bulky waters not named Slowking or Alomomola. One potential stop is that Extreme Speed and Flare Blitz come from an event, meaning it may not be able to pack priority and Sacred fire in one set which would hurt it. This and the fact Arcanine still exists and has a movepool to put Entei's to shame (all the same moves it has now plus Morning Sun, Wild Charge,and a not useless ability in Intimidate) means it'll still possibly stay in the tier. If Entei does move up I'd say Emboar would fill in it's role of a strong physical fire type decently well. The downsides of Emboar being it's not as strong while holding a Scarf and it's much slower holding a band, a fact further amplified by not having access to any form of priority. Either way it'll be interesting.

    As for the other Fire type, Pyroar, unless something has changed since the last time I looked at it it's movepool was abysmal and it had the defenses of a paper towel, it'll probably be nu. Basically Moltres, Magmortar, and even Typhlosion all severely outclass it in RU as it's only real niche is being able to use Hyper Voice to hit through Substitute, although I don't think it'll be enough to push it to RU.
  5. Molk

    Molk mfw houndoom might drop
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    So, as of (very) recent news, we've found out that entei wasn't the only physical RU Fire-type to get buffed this generation, and that the big pig Emboar has a new toy to play with in x/y as well in the form of Sucker Punch! A decently powerful priority move is honestly pretty significant for Emboar, as one of its problems in BW was that its Speed was quite middling, and it had to rely on a Choice Scarf to outspeed some important threats. Now, with the addition of Sucker Punch to its movepool, Emboar's doesn't need to rely on a Choice Scarf anymore to take out faster threats, and can easily snipe faster Pokemon with Sucker Punch before they can even hit it (its stronger than Entei's ExtrmeSpeed for reference, although it will have to occasionally have to rely on mindgames because of Sucker Punches mechanics. So, what do you all think of Sucker Punch Emboar? Will it have a significant impact on how emboar is used/how viable it is? What do you think will be the best set with this addition?

    Proof (open)
    [​IMG]
  6. Turtleye

    Turtleye

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    I think Emboar would love to use Sucker Punch. Like Molk said, he doesn't have to rely on Scarf anymore. Also a bonus is that it can hit Psychics now before they can launch an attack to finish off the pig. It's a good priority move although it requires some prediction (shit, I'll fail), but yea Emboar will enjoy it.
    I'm not 100% sure it would shoot up Emboar in usage thou. But we'll see.

    Some Calcs:
    252+ Atk Life Orb Emboar Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Uxie: 146-172 (41.2 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    Not that Uxie would attack Emboar if the Uxie user knows Emboar runs Sucker Punch but meh.

    252+ Atk Life Orb Emboar Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mesprit: 231-273 (76.7 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    Mm, rather bad I'd say. If you look at this:
    252+ SpA Life Orb Mesprit Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Emboar: 510-603 (120.2 - 142.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    Yea...
    O\utside of that I can't think of any psychic faster than Emboar.
  7. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent Yeah, well. The Dude abides
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    It's cool that Emboar gets Sucker Punch, it'll allow for a good few mindgames with the opponent! It also doesn't generally need to be used to hit the opponent super effectively. For example, with Life Orb and Adamant, Emboar will be able to ohko moltres with it after a round of SR and LO recoil, deal 73-86% to OTR Slowking, which is rather respectable. It also ohkos 4/0 sigilyph, dealing 101% minimum. However, I would still probably prefer to run the Scarf set, as the higher utility in being able to revenge kill stuff like Sceptile and Durant is too much to give up imho. Entei has that powerful banded Extremespeed with few drawbacks, a higher priority rate, and no mindgames needed; Emboar needs to predict to be able to revenge kill stuff, requires a boosting item so that it doesn't deal laughable damage, and I generally will shy away from a banded Sucker Punch as it's terrible setup bait. Basically it's a nice little buff, but I can't see it really changing Emboar.

    I really really hope we get Reckless though. It'll make Scarboar an even more vicious cleaner with Flare Blitz, and it'll also boost Wild Charge, to the point where Expert Belt Emboar can guarantee the ohko on incoming Moltres, and Choice Band Emboar can guarantee the ohko vs defensive Slowking.
    Turtleye, Celever and Pocket like this.
  8. Expulso

    Expulso

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    XY RU Banlist: Absol, Aegislash, Aerodactyl, Aggron, Alakazam, Ambipom, Arcanine, Azumarill, Bisharp, Blastoise, Blissey, Breloom, Celebi, Chandelure, Chansey, Charizard, Chesnaught, Clefable, Cloyster, Cobalion, Cofagrigus, Conkeldurr, Crawdaunt, Crobat, Darmanitan, Deoxys-Defense, Deoxys-Speed, Diggersby, Ditto, Donphan, Dragonite, Empoleon, Espeon, Excadrill, Exploud, Ferrothorn, Florges, Forretress, Galvantula, Garchomp, Gardevoir, Genesect, Gengar, Gliscor, Goodra, Greninja, Gyarados, Hawlucha, Haxorus, Heatran, Heracross, Hitmontop, Hippowdon, Hydreigon, Infernape, Jellicent, Jirachi, Jolteon, Keldeo, Kingdra, Klefki, Kyurem-Black, Landorus, Landorus-Therian, Latias, Latios, Lucario, Machamp, Magnezone, Mamoswine, Mandibuzz, Manectric, Mawile, Medicham, Metagross, Mew, Mienshao, Nidoking, Noivern, Pinsir, Porygon2, Rotom-Heat, Rotom-Wash, Roserade, Sableye, Salamence, Scizor, Scolipede, Shuckle, Skarmory, Slowbro, Smeargle, Staraptor, Starmie, Swampert, Sylveon, Talonflame, Tentacruel, Terrakion, Thundurus, Thundurus-Therian, Togekiss, Tornadus-Therian, Trevenant, Tyranitar, Umbreon, Vaporeon, Venusaur, Victini, Volcarona, Weavile, Whimsicott, Zapdos

    That is what it'd be like right now. Snorlax, CroCune, Deoxys-A, Kyurem, and more in RU? The power creep is tremendous.
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2014
  9. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas FREE SAVIOR DOG
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    Deoxys-A is ubers, but yeah that power creep is real.
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  10. Expulso

    Expulso

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    oops im an idiot ignore that.

    I'd just like to point out how insane Mega Amphy is; with 150 SpA and excellent bulk, it can be a defensive or offensive pivot, or sweep with Agility. Also, only 4 megas available (Amphy, Abombasnow, Banette and Houndoom), it doesn't face much competition.

    (pm me to play this, this tier is really damn fun, like a mix of Gen 5 UU and RU)
  11. EonX

    EonX Wiseman Eon
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    Yeah, I really hope mega Ampharos is RU. It's a really cool pivot and has a fantastic Electric / Dragon typing. Resistances to Fire, Grass, Water, Electric (x4) and Steel is really cool and it has great stats for a slow, bulky pivot (a la Eelektross, only better) Electric and Dragon also has fantastic neutral coverage, making it hard to check.
    Turtleye likes this.
  12. Turtleye

    Turtleye

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    Yea, afaik his STAB's are only resisted by Ferrothorn and Steelix, both of which can be dealt with by the means of Focus Blast (tho dat accuracy). It also has acces to Heal Bell, which could be pretty interesting since it has the bulk to pull it off, and it can hit pretty hard as well. It's only let-down is it's speed, but hey, Trick Room exists. Maybe Slowking could work well in combination with Ampharos, as Amphy covers those Grass and Electric weaknesses whilst Slowking can take Ice Beams all day.

    Also I'm wondering how much the Knock-Off boost will affect the meta as it's a pretty good move (It's better than Night Slash on the turn it knocks something off) and has the benefit of knocking off an item such as lefties or eviolite. Also only Dark and Fighting-types resist Dark Attacks now.
  13. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas FREE SAVIOR DOG
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    Well I've been playing some games of RU (beta) at http://fusx.psim.us/ which is pretty cool (thanks Fusxfaranto ). So far some of the top threats look to be Kyurem, Snorlax, Cresselia, and Suicune, and both offense and stall teams are viable. So far I've made 2 teams

    team 1 (open)

    Combusken @ Eviolite
    Ability: Speed Boost
    EVs: 248 HP / 184 SDef / 76 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Baton Pass
    - Protect
    - Fire Punch

    Doublade @ Eviolite
    Ability: No Guard
    EVs: 252 Atk / 108 SDef / 148 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Sacred Sword
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Destiny Bond
    - Iron Head

    Virizion @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Close Combat
    - Leaf Blade
    - Stone Edge

    Rhyperior @ Leftovers
    Ability: Solid Rock
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rock Slide
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Punch

    Eelektross @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Drain Punch
    - Thunder Punch
    - Aqua Tail
    - Knock Off

    Abomasnow (M) @ Abomasite
    Ability: Snow Warning
    EVs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Ice Punch
    - Wood Hammer
    - Ice Shard
    - Earthquake


    team 2 (open)

    Mismagius @ Life Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Nasty Plot
    - Shadow Ball
    - Dazzling Gleam
    - Destiny Bond

    Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 116 Def / 144 Spd
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Calm Mind
    - Moonlight
    - Psyshock
    - Substitute

    Drapion @ Black Sludge
    Ability: Battle Armor
    EVs: 248 HP / 244 SDef / 16 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Taunt
    - Knock Off
    - Poison Jab

    Tyrantrum @ Leftovers
    Ability: Strong Jaw
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Ice Fang
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake

    Tornadus (M) @ King's Rock
    Ability: Defiant
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Fling
    - Superpower
    - Acrobatics
    - Knock Off

    Flygon @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - U-turn
    - Earthquake
    - Outrage
    - Fire Punch


    Team one is a really fun team too use and it beat a SilentVerse stall team with it, because Swords Dance Virizion at +1 speed is too pro. The point of the team is obviously to set up with Combusken and pass to the best Pokemon to sweep their team. He also donked my combusken team later because Escavalier (another top notch pokemon) survives a +4 Close Combat @_@.

    The second team aims to sweep with either NP Mismagius or CM Cresselia, Drapion provides Toxic Spikes for Cresselia so it can just sit there and watch the opponents die slowly. Destiny Bond on Mismagius aims to lure in and kill bulky pokemon like Escavalier and Scrafty (also good in this meta) for Cresselia to sweep late game. Defiant Tornadus with King's Rock is hilarious because it is a 30 bp dark move that always flinches and gets rid of my item for a powered up Acrobatics, it is also to punish defog users that don't like muh t-spikes (defiant boost pls). Tyrantrum was filler that should be replaced (was a Cobalion, but that is UU) this leaves me weak to Fairies, Bronzong seems like a good choice to replace it though, and is also really strong in this meta.

    Molk I am making Drapion this gen's metang :).

    also here is a cool replay between me and Hot N Cold showing off the power of Cresselia. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/fusx-rubeta-13

    If you want to play and I'm on fusx, please challenge me :).

    edit: use psyshock on cress, suicune is literally the worst.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2014
    Hot N Cold likes this.
  14. TC Terra

    TC Terra

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    I think Doublade will be a huge part in the RU metagame. As the same for Combusken. Combusken would be a great add which can help potentially slow hard hitter sweepers to get some speed and sweep.Running offensive Combusken would be pretty cool with Swords Dance and then maybe Baton Pass when it's on its last little bit of life. As for Doublade, it's typing is one of the things that it would be epic in RU. The fact that it can run Eviolite and have 149 base Defense (I think) it can make it an excellent physical tank. To add on it gets Swords Dance Sacred Sword Shadow Sneak and Gyro Ball which can be a great Trick Room sweeper and with its Ghost typing it can be a pretty good Spin Blocker for the people who prefer it over Defog.
  15. Oddish is the best

    Oddish is the best

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    If Shaymin joins RU that would be really cool but probably OP but it would be fun to use as a grass type with actual coverage.
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  16. TC Terra

    TC Terra

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    I can see Shaymin in RU this generation. I don't know how well it can do though to be honest with the common Moltres and Escavalier. Emboar I'm kinda iffy about as it can't switch into an Earth Power but it can OHKO with Flare Blitz. Despite the flaws Shaymin can wreck havoc as well with Seed Flare.

    Aside from Shaymin do you guys think Xatu can drop to RU? I think it would be pretty interesting if it did.
  17. Expulso

    Expulso

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    Phasing is going to be so good with the following appearing:
    - CurseLax
    - CroCune
    - Combusken
    - Scrafty


    ugh idk how to make a team here, working on one; bulky offense imo
  18. Melons-N-Soda

    Melons-N-Soda

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    I'm kind of interested in mostly Gourgeist, Xatu, Amphy and Kyurem. And maybe Doublade and Combusken too.
  19. TC Terra

    TC Terra

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    Xatu can be a great dual screener in RU with magic bounce if one does not like Cresselia. Xatu also has an amazing defensive typing in psychic/flying quad resisting fighting types. Also gets Support moves such as Thunder Wave Roost and Night Shade doing 100 damage each turn to anything outside of Normal Types. This Pokemon in general would have trouble with Heliolisk since it's immune to Thunder Wave and Night Shade.
  20. EonX

    EonX Wiseman Eon
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    Another big thing is Emboar's access to Sucker Punch. Banded/LO sets can make great use of Sucker Punch in the last slot over Sleep Talk (not as big now that Grass-types are immune to Sleep Powder and Spore) to make up for the poor Speed. I really hope Virizion becomes good in this meta. It's my favorite of the musketeers, but was cursed with Grass/Fighting typing (Breloom outclassing it much?) Base 90 offenses aren't amazing, but access to both Swords Dance and Calm Mind give it versatility and it does have really good 91/129 special bulk to set up on most special attackers that can't hit it with a strong/super effective STAB move. Base 108 Speed alongside Justified (good for SD sets) to abuse Knock Off is also a big plus for Virizion. Sucks to be weak to Fire and have Escavalier survive a +4 Close Combat... seriously, wtf? Should still be p. cool though.
  21. TC Terra

    TC Terra

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    +4 252 Atk Life Orb Virizion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 569-671 (165.4 - 195%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    +4 252 Atk Virizion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 438-516 (127.3 - 150%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Are you sure a about that? Maybe it was burned...
  22. NotBruceWayne

    NotBruceWayne

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    I didn't play a lot of RU last gen (I ran a TR team for a while though), so forgive me for any noob comments. Here's my two cents:
    1) Pangoro's only hope of being UU was his signature move but his lackluster stats and shabby movepool may drag him down to RU. 124 Attack is still a lot but 58 Speed is just bad enough to keep him from using it. He'll be a decent pivot with Parting Shot.
    2) I don't think Malamar will be RU because he can be lethal in the hands of a good player. I played a few decent players on PS who use Malamar and with the right support, it's a monster. Contrary + Superpower and Switcheroo for boosting sweepers is cool. He'll probably be in RU for a while because of usage stats
    3) Will Manectric be in RU? I run into a lot of Manectric-Mega Manectric on PS UU. Mega Manectric maybe a bit to fast for RU. His speed after evolving allows him to invest in HP and Intimidate gives him breathing room against physical attackers. That nerf to HP did a number on him as he lost a decent option to hit Ground and Dragon types but I think MManectric will be a bit to fast RU (for now, still pretty unsure about this one).

    252 SpA Mega Manectric Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 284-336 (79.3 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    I don't know the standard Zygarde set but I think this is the DD one sooo yeah. Don't know what else to calc for. Anyway, he also misses out on the OHKO (6.3% chance) even after SR so that really HP nerf really sucks.

    4) Exploud and Entei will tear up the RU scene with Scrappy Boomburst and CB Sacred Fire. Nuff said.
    5) Mega Aerodactyl is a very underrated Mega like what Mega TTar is in OU. With high Speed and Tough Claws which allow him to forgo LO recoil and access to Taunt which stops walls from boosting or recovering or setting hazards, it will be a solid addition to the tier.

    Really hope to see a lot of Escavalier and Crawdaunt in the future!
  23. TC Terra

    TC Terra

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    Most of that I agree. I think Manectric will still be RU, Manectite will just be banned from RU. That seems like a good thing to do since Heracross is still allowed in UU but Heracronite isn't. Manectric still the same just got a Mega Evo. Malamar will be RU but it will be in the very top like Druddigon etc.
  24. Imanalt

    Imanalt WHY BUNNELBY DO HAVE FUR?
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    My thoughts on what i've seen so far playing ru beta:

    the metagame as its starting to shape up is very bulky, but a lot of mons being used dont have reliable recovery, which combined with the lack of spinners and defoggers at the moment, makes hazards look very valuable, especially with the quality of spikers we have with froslass for a suicide lead and qwilfish for a slightly more defensive role.

    I've also been overall underwhelmed with the megamons in the tier... abomasnow felt too slow and too weak and too frail to ever do much. mega ampharos is solid, but feels not quite bulky enough, and not quite strong enough, especially given with no recovery and no leftovers it is worn down extremely quickly. It also hates the fact that it really struggles to get through bronzong and escav, both of which looks to be very useful because of their ability to take hits from kyurem and zygarde.

    Building off my disappointment in megas, there is one thing they do provide: a very much needed immunity to getting knock off. With mons like escavalier getting knock off, it will be around, and a lot of things feel very reliant on their items. I've seen a lot of assault vest mons, and since in general a lot of bulky mons are being used without recovery (rhyperior, bronzong, to name a couple), knocking off their lefties is huge. This is compounded by the fact dark looks to be one of the best attacking types in the current meta, with only a select few fighting mons resisting it, and quite a lot of

    first off I very much agree with your summary of pangoro, he seems likely to stay with us in ru, where he looks to be solid but nothing special as of now at least.
    Mega manectric seems unlikely to be ru, given manectric is getting a lot of usage in uu. the difference between it and hera is that hera was not getting enough usage to be ou. Malamar (despite my personal problems with it) is not all that strong, and i expect to see it settle in low to mid ru, as its combination of poor stats, poor type, and generally shallow movepool come back to bite it. I agree with you that exploud, entei, escav, and crawdaunt all look sexy, unfortunately crawdaunt is sitting in uu for the moment at least, as is aerodactyl.
  25. speed ghilliesniper

    speed ghilliesniper

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    Just gonna throw out the fact that Yanmega is brutal in this meta. Either Specs Tinted Lens or LO Speed Boost have the potential to either tear through walls or sweep late game, with wall breaking being easier with Defog support so the psycho dragonfly doesn't lose 1/2 it's health. Basically the thing's an absolute monster just like R1 of gen 5 RU, although I think some special tanks will be able to keep him somewhat in check, especially big papa Snorlax (who somehow is RU) kinda like how GSC Lax kept Raikou and Zapdos in check.

    On other random things I'v seen in the tier, Dry Skin Heliolisk looks like an interesting replacement for Manectric boasting a similar stat spread with a little different coverage range while also being a nifty Crocune counter at the same time, which is cool because CM Cune is one of the most threatening boosters in the tier right now. Speaking of boosters CM Cress is also scary but there's been a huge power creep that makes it a bit harder to set up as well. Still a fantastic mixed wall though who's very versatile. Old school CurseLax is functional but there's some new Ghosts on the scene with Dusclops being legal (still used more than Dusknoir I believe) and Honedge being stupidly bulky being able to do silly things like eating a +2 EQ from Zyguard and koing with Gyro Ball in return. The nerf to steel means it's defensive typing isn't quite as good but it's still got amazing bulk on the physical side and a cool set of resistances. I'll have to keep playing but first impressions this is what I'v seen, still seems like a really cool tier so far.

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