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RU X/Y speculation, a look into the possible future

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Silvershadow234, Nov 9, 2013.

  1. TC Terra

    TC Terra

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    I got a question: Would Jellicent happen to slip to RU? If it does I don't know about CroCune now that I think about it.

    Yanmega would definitely be threatening. Even with common threats in UU last gen in Raikou and Zapdos, Yanmega was still able to pull through and still does what it does best at late game sweeping. Yanmega is also a Pokemon that can do well in RU now that I think about it.
  2. Fusxfaranto

    Fusxfaranto (he still is curiose about the turkey hole) though
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    I've been playing quite a few matches and have made quite a few teams of this preliminary RU, and I have to say, I've been extremely impressed with the metagame so far. Even the pretty broken seeming stuff is not unmanageable (i.e. Zygarde and Kyurem), and there is a lot of variety in viable threats. It's hard to predict how the meta is going to develop, but there are definitely some outstanding threats in its current state. Aside from the obvious things, Froslass is one notable threat; it is just as threatening as it was in BW UU, suicide spiking like nothing else, and taking things down effortlessly with Destiny Bond. The three big trappers, Gothorita Gothitelle, Wobbuffet, and Dugtrio, definitely all have a lot of potential. I've mostly only used Wobb out of those three, and it can definitely be a pain to defensive teams, especially paired with something like Dragon Dance or Coil Zygarde.
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2014
  3. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    Jellicent is currently at about 5% usage in PO's UU beta, considering that the cutoff for a Pokemon to drop to RU is 3.41%, no Jellicent is not/would not be allowed in RU currently, although depending on meta changes that can change of course.

    Anyways i too have been playing a lot of RU beta on Fusxfaranto's server both for fun and to try and identify powerful threats before the ladder comes up, and here are some of my thoughts so far (note that not all of these mons are guarenteed to stay RU at all by the time it's officially created lol).

    Reuniclus is really, really, good and i'm expecting it to be a high/top tier threat as long as it stays RU by usage. It has pretty damn solid stats all around bar speed, hitting really hard and having quite excellent bulk too, and has one of the best abilities in the game in Magic Guard, making it immune to entry hazards and the like. I've seen both Calm Mind and Trick Room used in the matches i played vs people in #rarelyused and both were impressive. OTR hits like a truck and can clean up offensive teams pretty easily, especially considering that damn bulk letting it take any priority not named Sucker Punch damn well. Calm Mind is a personal favorite of mine and can really stick around for a long time between that bulk and Magic Guard, and can set up win conditions quite easily later on in the game once things like Escavalier and the like are removed, especially against bulkier teams that might not be able to immediately hurt it.

    Zygarde is a top tier threat for sure and i could actually see it being a potential suspect if it doesn't move up. absolutely amazing bulk on both sides makes it pretty easy to set up, and even with new Pokemon in the tier such as Bronzong Dragon/Ground as a STAB combination is pretty solid, especially when both STABs have pretty high BP to begin with. 100 Base Attack isn't the best, but its definitely enough to run through a team with that high BP STAB combination. ExtremeSpeed can make it somewhat challenging to revenge kill, too.

    I wouldn't call it top tier, but Toxicroak is a Pokemon that has definitely performed in my test matches so far. Toxicroak seems like a pretty potent offensive threat imo, Poison/Fighting with Dry Skin is pretty unique and solid defensively, and lets Toxicroak switch into and check/counter/get a free boost on Pokemon such as Virizion, Scrafty, other Toxicroak, Suicune, and Milotic. Suicune in particular is especially nice considering how much of a pain crocune can be. 106 Base Attack might not be the best, but it has more than enough power after a boost with Life Orb imo, especially considering it has Solid Dark/Fighting/Ice or Dark/Fighting/Poison coverage to work with (Gunk Shot is 80 Accuracy now, so if you really want the high BP STAB move its a viable option i guess). A +2 Drain Punch restores a lot of Toxicroak's HP too, giving it more longevity than you'd expect.

    Escavalier is damn amazing as expected Assault Vest Escavalier can check/counter a ton of important special threats while still maintaining a great offensive presence with 405 Attack and a 120 BP Megahorn. As mentioned Earlier, the Knock Off Buff and Escavalier's new access to Drill Run are excellent too, giving Escavalier even more utility in removing things like Leftovers and Eviolite and letting Escavalier hit things such as Entei, Qwilfish, and Magneton on the switch, respectively. A must use Pokemon imo

    Entei is absolutely amazing and honestly pretty annoying too. Sacred Fire is just such as huge buff for it, if you thought Scald was annoying, Entei's Sacred Fire burning is pretty much a coinflip, and considering some potential checks such as Rhyperior and Qwilfish absolutely hate being burned, this is quite annoying. Consider that the move that's burning so many things is a 100 BP STAB move, and its obvious to see that Entei will definitely be a top tier threat during its stay in RU. Outside of Sacred Fire, Entei is still as good of a revenge killer as ever with that strong +2 priority ExtremeSpeed :).

    Lastly, i don't have any experience with it yet, but i heard Pangoro is pretty effective from testing as an offensive pivot because of parting shot and its resistance to Stealth Rock, anyone from #rarelyused who's used it have any opinions on it?
  4. TC Terra

    TC Terra

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    Ah I see. I am really excited for RU. Especially for Escavalier and Pangoro this generation. I used Banded Pangoro once on that server w. Parting Shot, it did way better than I expected. Toxicroak, I'm kinda iffy about since like you said Reuniclus will be running around and that x4 weakness to Psychic.

    252+ Atk Toxicroak Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 146-172 (34.4 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252+ Atk Toxicroak Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Reuniclus: 212-250 (50 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Toxicroak needs a guaranteed Swords Dance to do something to Reuniclus otherwise Reuniclus would have easy pickings with it. I think I can also grow a fond of Zygarde in this tier. I really don't like Zygarde as much especially in OU, but I have to admit, Bulky Dragon Dance or Coil set and it's typing is pretty good especially in RU which makes the tier a ton more interesting.
  5. Imanalt

    Imanalt WHY BUNNELBY DO HAVE FUR?
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    More thoughts:
    Right now there are really four mons that are all on the same tier of just destroying teams, and basically have no good counters:
    Escavalier, which will never single handedly win games, but will always be a significant net positive no matter the team, because you just cant deal w/ it cleanly and it comes in so easily, the big concern with it is that it wears down awfully quickly, so its only getting 2 kills or something, which scarily makes it probably the least threatening of these four mons.

    Shaymin, which can just destroy things with a life orb set. It doesnt even need to predict, just find something you can come in on, click seed flare, and 40% of the time you will ko the switchin. It is very revengeable, but with synthesis + natural cure, it just doesnt fucking die, and can come in, kill something, get out, rinse and repeat, over and over again. Much the same way nidoqueen did last gen, it just destroys everything slower than it, with the slight exception of escavalier, which only takes about 60% from hp fire, so can come in on seed flare if it doesnt drop sdef and force shaymin out.

    Kyurem, the really obvious one on this list. Escavalier can do alright vs it, but thats about it, and it has to be afraid of hp fire. kyurem just has so much bulk and so much power, and it can viably run both subroost and a specs set (probably scarfed as well, although i haven't seen it). I don't think too much needs to be said here, because we all knew coming in just how scary this was going to be. However i do expect with kyu-b getting midmonth banned last month its uu usage will go up and it probably will be gone in a month.

    Suicune is the odd one out here. Plenty of pokemon counter it, the problem is absolutely nothing checks it. It can set up calm mind on nearly anything, and just refuses to die. i had a game earlier where despite the fact both of us had a sure counter, suicune's survivability meant when it came down to it it was a cm cune ppstall at the end of the game after both counters had been dealt with (well... until i lost the ppstall and got double crit scald to win...). But during the game ebeast summarized it best "tsukiko: this is retarded." Suicune doesn't win every game its used in, but a very high amount of the time there is just nothing you can do to kill it, and eventually, once a mon is removed, it will sweep.

    the closest mon to these four would be reuniclus, which is really scary because of the fact it can run one set to demolish defensive teams (bulky cm) and another to demolish offense (otr), and both of these are extremely deadly. The problem of course with this is you can only run one, and it has a tendency towards deadweight in the wrong matchup, as otr struggles to make much of an impact on bulkier mons, and bulky cm can never find set up opportunities among more powerful threats.

    To me though, the really telling thing is how much the top four mons all are needed to beat each other. Escavalier gives you the best chance vs shaymin and kyurem, shaymin gives you the best chance against cune, etc.
    Jaguar360, dcae, Molk and 2 others like this.
  6. sickweare

    sickweare

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    I've been toying around with this big guy:

    [​IMG]
    Druddigon @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Rough Skin
    Nature: Adamant
    8 HP / 252 Atk / 248 SpD
    -Dragon Claw
    -Earthquake
    -Dragon Tail
    -Crunch / Iron Head / Sucker Punch

    Druddigon has always been a bulky Pokemon, but the introduction of the Assault Vest gives it greater longevity against special attackers, especially ones it can threaten (like Rotom-C). I chose Rough Skin because there are plenty of Physical Attackers who like to get at Druddi, but both of his other abilities can be used if it suits you(if using sheer force, a mixed set is obviously more viable, but this set is focused on AV)
    Just for a few examples I guess
    252 SpA Life Orb Mew Psychic vs. 8 HP / 248 SpD Assault Vest Druddigon: 91-109 (30.6 - 36.7%) -- 61.7% chance to 3HKO
    252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoqueen Earth Power vs. 8 HP / 248 SpD Assault Vest Druddigon: 109-129 (36.7 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252 SpA Mesprit Ice Beam vs. 8 HP / 248 SpD Assault Vest Druddigon: 98-116 (32.9 - 39%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Mesprit Ice Beam vs. 8 HP / 248 SpD Assault Vest Druddigon: 127-151 (42.7 - 50.8%) -- 2.7% chance to 2HKO
    252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoqueen Ice Beam vs. 8 HP / 248 SpD Assault Vest Druddigon: 146-172 (49.1 - 57.9%) -- 96.5% chance to 2HKO
    4 SpA Florges Moonblast vs. 8 HP / 248 SpD Assault Vest Druddigon: 128-152 (43 - 51.1%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO
    252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 8 HP / 248 SpD Assault Vest Druddigon: 236-278 (79.4 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (not even Hydreigon's DM can OHKO it without prior damage)

    Okay I know many of those calcs weren't for technically RU Pokes, but I thought of this set today and I really liked it. The fourth moveslot is iffy because I'm never sure what to run.. Crunch is reliable coverage, Iron Head deals with fairies, and Sucker Punch gives it priority but I'm not 100% on that.

    What do you guys think?
  7. dcae

    dcae naughty list

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    I really think Cune is absolutely ridic due to the fact that I use it on every team, and every fucking game ends with a PP stall vs some CM user.

    Bar this, Kyurem is insane, p obv, not much to say.

    Zygarde is based af, but I'm not convinced its broken at all despite the fact it would seem so.

    Reuniclus is really really good, CM is amazing, esp since it can easily win CM stallwars and defeat stall teams without Spiritomb; TR fucks up offensive teams badly.

    Toxicroak is insanely good, fast, powerful, excellent cune answer.

    I like this meta bar Kyurem :)
  8. TC Terra

    TC Terra

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    I used AV Druddigon but with a different EV Spread. It's more important to put on some HP as it gives it more tanking capabilities.
  9. Spirit

    Spirit
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    Eh, I figure I'll post my thoughts thus far~

    My general impression is that RU this gen has an insane amount of set up sweepers, you'll honestly find at least one per team. This meta is all about bulky offense and assisting Pokemon X in sweeping. It's overall really fun. I mean you can run just about everything from Froslass hyper offense, Escavalier balanced, and Cresselia stall. I really like RU this gen there's just so much to use and a shit ton of variety. Oh, and one thing: Knock Off spam. Be prepared. ;)

    So far, this is pretty much the top 5 threats in XY RU (not sure about order, but top 3 could be rotated in any way):

    1) Zygarde
    2) Suicune
    3) Kyurem
    4) Escavalier
    5) Reuniclus

    If you're not specifically preparing for these guys when team building, you're doing it wrong.

    I'm not sure about a top ten, considering I haven't played as much as I would like to make a clear estimate, but Cresselia, Shaymin, Entei, Milotic, Pangoro, Gothitelle, Tornadus, Scrafty, Froslass, Flygon, and/or Yanmega would probably be the closest to that range. They're all notable threats in this meta as well.

    I know it's premature, given that this isn't even official yet, but lemme talk about the broken shit possible suspects.

    Suicune: I really dislike this Pokemon. I think imanalt pretty much hit the nail on the head with this one: Suicune has no checks, only counters. This I agree with because unless you carry something specific to beat it, it will over power your "checks" and sweep. That's not to mention those suicune vs suicune pp stall wars are just a bunch of drawn-out snooze fests. It's not fun to use nor play against. This Pokemon brings really nothing positive towards this meta, and all it does it just stifle the flow of the match with its absurd bulk and Calm Mind. This thing is probably going to end up as one of the first suspects if not outright quick banned. I prefer the former.

    Zygarde: Yet another Pokemon on my personal hit list. Similar to Suicune, this thing has no checks, just counters. My main beef with Zygarde is its ridiculous bulk, which lets set up on 90% of the tier with minimal difficulty. That's not to mention its range of sets in Coil, Dragon Dance, and Even Choice Band to through you for a loop. It's difficult to even check b/c you have to figure out the set, but by the time you do, it's usually too late. =/ Versatile + Phenomenal Bulk + Great Coverage + Amazing set up moves... yeah. You get the idea with Zygarde. It and Suicune should share the same fate.

    Kyurem: Out of the current three titans dominating RU atm, this is honestly the least worst of them all... My reason for that is b/c you can actually check this thing, lol. The currents viable sets I've used / played against are LO, Specs, and SubRoost. Now, the issue with Kyurem is that pretty much every set it can use causes problems. Unlike the that last two, this thing can be checked, but not countered... I mean it sits in a weird position where most teams can check it by default, but at that same time, it's impossible to counter b/c it can run any subset of moves to bypass pretty much everything in RU. You're going to lose something each match when playing against, it's inevitable, but at least your team won't be outright swept. I think this will lead it to being suspected / quick-banned within the future, but it isn't on the same level of ridiculousness as Zygarde and Suicune...
    More on stuff later imo :v4:
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2014
    Jaguar360 and koista12 like this.
  10. koista12

    koista12

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    Is flygon in RU this generation? That would definitely secure my playing this tier the most, as he was one of my favorite mons in BW2 UU.
  11. sickweare

    sickweare

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    Ahh, right. You see I had AV Conk in mind when coming up with this set, so I focused a lot on how well it could take special hits rather than overall hits. Plus, Conk has better HP anyway. What kind of spread do you run?
  12. EonX

    EonX Rise Above
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    As of right now, Flygon is allowed in RU.

    So, after having a few matches and watching some others, Shaymin is annoying as heck. Thankfully, it p. much cold stops Suicune, but it is so difficult to straight up counter without Kyurem due to the SpDef drops from Seed Flare. It is manageable, but that doesn't make it any less annoying.

    Zygarde has been really good. It can take so many hits and that base 100 Attack is a lot higher than you might think at first thanks to the high BP of its STAB moves. Offensive sets (DD and the odd CB) have access to ExtremeSpeed while bulkier sets can use Sub and even ChestoRest with either DD or Coil. Ice Scard is almost non-existent and Zygarde has more than enough bulk to handle most other priority moves.

    A couple of Pokemon that aren't getting a lot of recognition are Granbull and Scrafty. Granbull has a fantastic pure Fairy typing, Intimidate to hard check Zygarde and a solid base 120 Attack that allows it to hit for respectable damage, even without investment. Roar and Heal Bell are great support moves for it that don't get much distribution together. Certainly a Pokemon that should get used and recognized more.
    As for Scrafty, it's really good. Despite the fact that Fairy-types dgaf about its STAB combination, it's fairly easy to wear down most Fairy-types. It can run 2 different DD sets depending on the ability you want to use (Lum Moxie or Lefties Shed Skin) while AV isn't totally outlandish thanks to its 3rd ability, Intimidate. This means that Scrafty can come in with an effective Cosmic Power boost.

    Finally, to pivot back to Zygarde, I've been running this set on it and it's actually quite effective:

    Zygarde @ Chesto Berry
    Ability: Aura Break
    EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 104 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Earthquake
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Rest

    While Dragon Dance sets focus on Zygarde's offensive STAB combination and Coil sets focus on its great bulk and defensive typing, this attempts to do both to varying extents. With just a single Dragon Dance, Zygarde outspeeds positive base 120 Speed Pokemon, and a second lets it outspeed all Choice Scarf users. EQ is the primary move on this set as this Zygarde can't really afford to be locked in and/or confused due to Outrage. ExtremeSpeed is nice to get in front of other priority users that may attempt to chip away or even finish off Zygarde. Rest is the final move in the set, and it's p. major. With Rest and a Chesto Berry, Zygarde can set up on countless defensive Pokemon that can usually take on its other sets. Most physical attackers that lack a super effective move can be used as set up bait, and so long as the opponent's counter can't OHKO Zygarde, you can Rest up after you've beaten it to finish your sweep. The EV spread lets Zygarde outpace base 120 Speed Pokemon after one DD and virtually every Scarf user after two. Attack is maximized with an Adamant nature to get the most out of Zygarde's above average base 100 Attack. The remaining EVs are placed into HP to let Zygarde tank hits as it sets up. Coil is usable on this set, but it would probably serve you well to bump up to 136 Speed EVs at the very least to outpace neutral base 80s.
    Jaguar360 and koista12 like this.
  13. complete legitimacy

    complete legitimacy Honko's Happy Funtime With Men
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    I'm much better at XY RU than Double01.
    DittoCrow likes this.
  14. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas on good days I am charming as fuck
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    Just bring alomomola, it probs still beats him.
  15. Expulso

    Expulso

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    Guys, why hasn't Porygon-Z gotten any love? Something like the following set could work:

    Porygon-Z @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Adaptability
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Tri Attack
    - Dark Pulse
    - Hidden Power [Fire] / Ice Beam
    - Trick / Ice Beam

    WALLBREAKING MASTA. Seriously, though:
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 284-336 (82.5 - 97.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 340-400 (80.1 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 262-310 (64.8 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (or trick it your specs, but this is usually better)

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 176-208 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (see above)

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 308-364 (86 - 101.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 696-820 (194.4 - 229%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 52 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem: 322-380 (79.7 - 94%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (yeah yeah ik this isnt a wall)
  16. TC Terra

    TC Terra

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    I don't remember exactly. I know it was something similar to 212 / xx I don't remember exactly how I put the EVs.
  17. Tornadus-T :D

    Tornadus-T :D

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    Dang I think that Virizion will be a big threat in the meta because it's fast and good mixed attacking stats as well as useful stabs for the meta. Additionally it had a great special defense stat and really only it's defense stat is weaker but it looks pretty solid, especially as a grass type considering Shaymin probably won't be staying in the tier for long.
  18. TC Terra

    TC Terra

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    I know this may be kinda meh, but I think I may use a Fletchinder in RU. It's Attack Stats aren't that bad nor is it's speed. Priority Flying moves are a great assets just like how it is to Talonflame. 73 Base Attack (Not to far from Talonflame's 81) and 83 Base Speed isn't bad. What do you guys think? The Stealth Rock and the it's frail defenses could hurt though. As for Virizion, Virizion can make a great offensive threat possessing a great movepool imo. It has Fighting/Grass/Rock coverage and Swords Dance to boost its attack even more. I think Virizion can also serve as a check to Kyurem (Not Named Choice Scarf Variant) since they will be more common as well.
  19. Delibird is Amazing

    Delibird is Amazing

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    no flare blitz, brave bird and to a lesser extent bulk up really screws it over though.
  20. TC Terra

    TC Terra

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    Talonflame is far from having good defense, yet Brave Bird and Flare Blitz are still both used.

    Talonflame Defenses: 78/71/69
    Fletchinder Defenses: 62/55/52

    Both are both fragile and can both share the same role in different tiers.
  21. Spirit

    Spirit
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    His point was that Fletchinder does not have Brave Bird or Flare Blitz, which is why it can't function like Talonflame. The only good STAB it gets is Acrobatics, and you basically have to run no item to use it because it's far too frail to use something like Sitrus Berry + Swords Dance. I really don't see the point with this Pokemon tbh; it has no movepool to work with. =/
  22. Spydreigon

    Spydreigon I'm fine!
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    A poke that seems to be very good in RU seems to be Sharpedo. Honestly, he's so good I don't even see him dropping to RU. With the dark buff his crunches can attack many more pokes and he receives a key egg move in destiny bond. If sharpedos speed is high enough, with his low defenses he can take down almost any pokemon.
  23. EonX

    EonX Rise Above
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    CM Virizion has some serious coverage issues imo. AV Escavalier stops it cold without HP Fire, but if Virizion runs this, Moltres screws it royally. SD Virizion, however, is p. good since it can run Stone Edge to drill Moltres (and other Fire- and Flying-types) while possessing CC to deal serious damage to Esca. Leaf Blade lets it beat down Fairy-types that try to get in its way (though Granbull sucks p. bad)
  24. Tornadus-T :D

    Tornadus-T :D

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    The physical set is the one that I plan on using even though Virizion is certainly good enough in UU ATM (Breaks through most walls). It is a little annoying how is has to set up a SD because of base 90 attack but I think it will still be effective anyways as its speed will be REALLY nice.
  25. TC Terra

    TC Terra

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    It doesn't? :U *Dreams Crushed*

    Back to Virizion I think Swords Dance is it's best set she has. It allows her defeat the Pokemon expected and on top of that her own counter Pokemon (Escavalier Non-Scarf Moltres etc.)

    +2 252 Atk Life Orb Virizion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 380-448 (110.4 - 130.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    +2 252 Atk Life Orb Virizion Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Moltres: 967-1139 (300.3 - 353.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

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