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RU X/Y speculation, a look into the possible future

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Silvershadow234, Nov 9, 2013.

  1. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    RU Co-Leader

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    Alright, it's been a little bit so i think i'll post a few more of my thoughts from testing :).

    Froslass is a very annoying/effective Pokemon from what i've seen so far, probably one of the best leads and general spikes setters that'll end up available at worst. Its speed lets it get up a few layers of spikes up pretty easily, and the combination of a fast taunt, ghost-type, and a move that does serious damage to some of the potential defog users (such as Flygon), makes sure Lass's spikes stay up at least in the short term (possibly longer if you play really well). Not to mention that a fast Destiny Bond makes it rather easy to let Froslass take down at least Pokemon with it in the process, especially when combined with a well placed Taunt forcing the opponent to attack. Cursed Body is just the icing on the cake, and can really screw over the opponent if used at the right time. Overall a really really good Pokemon, great for offensive teams, and from my experience can consistently can get multiple layers of entry hazards for your team.

    Scrafty has the potential to be a pretty solid Pokemon too imo. Dragon Dance Scrafty seems like a pretty threatening sweeper from what i've seen (and user: icecream in particular has been on the recieving end of :x). Its solid defenses make it pretty easy to set up a Dragon Dance and let it take most priority moves once set, and accumulative Moxie boosts make it pretty hard to stop once it gets going. Dark/Fighting isn't quite as good as it would've been in gen 5 because of fairy-types, but from my experience Scrafty only really needs to worry about 3 Fairy-types max (Aromatisse, Granbull, and maybe Slurpuff?) and Toxicroak resisting its STAB combo atm, and out of those Granbull doesn't enjoy losing its leftovers to a knock off on the switch, while Toxicroak is so frail it actually takes like 60%+ from +1 High Jump Kick, letting you just run through it after some prior damage. Given this using just DD/HJK/Drain Punch/Knock Off is probably a perfectly viable option, giving you the best of both worlds when it comes to fighting STAB (the power of HJK and the healing of Drain Punch), but that's just my opinion on the matter. Lum Moxie DD seems like the best set to me atm, but Shed Skin Dragon Dance, Bulk Up, and Assault Vest are probably viable sets too imo. The latter being especially interesting to me because of its exceptional bulk due to the combination of vest and intimidate.

    Lastly, what does everyone think about Krookodile atm? it was great back in its time during gen 5 RU and things only got better for it over the generation with the Knock Off buff and steel-type nerf. I've seen it used in a few matches and the Scarf set is probably a solid Moxie cleaner/revenge killer at worst.
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  2. Leer

    Leer

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    Ive been using Azelf lately, and it's been doing very well, just like Mesprit and Uxie in Gen 5 only a different role. It can be physical, special, or mixed with its great stats and movepool, and runs a choice scarf set effectively. It can U-Turn, making for a nice scout, and I suspect it will have a niche on Volturn teams like Uxie an Mesprit before it. It can get around its low bulk with a sash (slightly more effective with defog) and outspeed to 2HKO foes.

    Cresselia, while having missed the golden oppurtunity of Fairy typing, recieved Moonblast this Gen. It's no surprise that the future RU fairies wont be very good, so this could make up for some coverave issues and hit dark types that would otherwise threaten Cress effectively. It can CM and Fire off Psybeams and Moonblasts, a combo only resisted by Steel. Levitate allows her and the aforementioned Azelf to dodge Stick Webs, which Leavanny will probably lay down a lot in the future.

    Doublade will also be viable in RU as well. It has a couple sets I really like. The first is its SD set:
    Doublade @ Eviolite
    Ability: No Guard
    EVs: 232 Atk / 24 HP / 252 Def
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Swords Dance
    - Gyro Ball
    - Sacred Sword
    - Shadow Claw/Shadow Sneak
    This set has been really effective, and I can usually take out a few Pokemon before finally getting KO'd or Being forced to switch.
    Another set I lile is the Restalk set:
    Doublade @ Eviolite
    Ability: No Guard
    EVs: 252 Def / 240 HP / 16 Atk
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Swords Dance
    - Gyro Ball
    I know it has SD, but this is an entirely different set. This takes advantage of Doublade's only healing move, and also allows it to shrug off those pesky burns and paras.

    I've been using all of these, and yes they all do very well. Froslass with Spikes/Taunt/Ice beam/DBond is a really great lead, especially with her speed and a sash.
    Scrafty is a great sweeper, It's very easy to sweep after just one DD. Moxie sweeps are still effective as ever, and now RU gets some Moxie love. HJK and Drain Punch also serves the purpose of catching people off guard; eveb if you fail to KO with Drain Punch you can with HJK.
    I've expiremented with scarfed Krook as well, and Moxie+Knock off is very fun. STAB Knock Off is a move I definitely dont mind locking into, as even if there's resistance the boost still comes in and their item is lost.
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  3. Celon

    Celon

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    I posted this in the Good Cores thread in OU, but then realized that the thread was for... well, OU. So, I'm reposting this here.
    [​IMG]
    Typhlosion @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Blaze
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Eruption
    - Fire Blast
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power Rock
    [​IMG]
    Kabutops @ Life Orb
    Ability: Weak Armor
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stone Edge
    - Aqua Jet
    - Waterfall / Swords Dance
    [​IMG]
    Gourgeist-H @ Leftovers
    Ability: Frisk
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Leech Seed
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Seed Bomb
    - Phantom Force

    I find that these three have decent synergy together. Kabutops provides Rapid Spin support for Typhlosion so it can unleash a full powered Eruption, while Gourgeist covers Typhlosion's weaknesses to Ground and Water, as well as Kabutops' weaknesses to Ground, Fighting, Grass, and Electric are all sponged by Gourgeust. Sure, Gourgeist-H may not fall down to RU, with Weavile's recent banning to OU, but I just think it's outclassed by other bulky Grass-types.
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  4. EonX

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    I would honestly use a -Speed nature on any Doublade to ensure Gyro Ball hits for maximum power Lexical Analysis .

    Celon , your use of Specs Typhlosion warms my heart... Anyway, Molk brought up Krookodile, and there is an idea I've had with it that I haven't really had the time to test yet, but it seems intriguing. And that idea is pairing it with this thing:

    Flygon @ Choice Band
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly / Adamant
    - Earthquake
    - Outrage
    - U-turn
    - Stone Edge

    So, yeah, this goes back to an idea that floated around BW UU. With Krookodile being around for Moxie sweeping and it being a Ground-type, I think Flygon's greatest niche will be as a Choice Band user. Zygarde has a similar typing, but it would much rather use DD or Coil. As for Flygon, it is stupid resiliant to entry hazards and has great offensive STABs to use. Kinda sucks that both have immunities, but U-turn is never a terrible move to use on something with such punishing STABs. Ideally, CB Flygon would be able to weaken / soften up defensive cores for Krookodile to clean up with either EQ or Knock Off depending on which types of Pokemon Flygon weakens more. Any thoughts on the possible Flygon / Krook core?
  5. Spirit

    Spirit
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    That core gets demolished by Subcoil Zygarde. It's unacceptable for a three-mon core to be so weak to such a destructive threat. I'd recommend HP Ice on Typhlosion to lure out Zygarde. Either do that or run Aromatisse, but I wouldn't call that a "good core" by any stretch of the imagination. At least for now anyway. Just a key thing to note is that FWG cores don't do particularly well against dragons, so you're putting your team at an excessive handicap by trying to construct your core around a rather ineffectual and overrated cookie-cutter concept. I mean there are a bunch of other attackers that give that build problems like Sharpedo, Scrafty, and even Yanmega to an extent. It's better to build cores that can cover top metagame threats, while also functioning synergistically as opposed to blindly building a core based on synergy alone.
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2014
  6. Celon

    Celon

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    I find it odd that Zygarde would be sitting around in RU, but I actually just noticed this huge weakness when I looked at the post of the Flygon + Krookodile core. You know you're doing something wrong if a Flygon of all things is wrecking you. I'll admit that F/W/G cores aren't quite as effective in the lower tiers, do to the lack of proper type combinations/abilities/stats. If Zygarde is giving me trouble though, then I'll be coming up with a solution.

    EDIT: Okay, I may have something here. Jynx + Kabutops.
    [​IMG]
    Jynx @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Dry Skin
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Psychic
    - Focus Blast
    - Trick

    (Kabutops set will be the same as above)

    Okay, while these two don't have quite as good synergy together, what matters is being able to get rid of the Pokemon that counter each other. Scarf Jynx is effective as it can deal with Kabutops' biggest threats, Grass-types, while Kabutops can get rid of Stealth Rock and Fire-types in return. Scarf Jynx also outspeeds most other Scarfers, and can deal with Zygarde that lack Extreme Speed. Maybe these two are more along the lines of NU though.
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
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  7. Leer

    Leer

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    One Zygarde set that might be getting over looked due to its lack of Extreme Speed is its Restalk set (I know, I must really love Gen 6 Resting):
    [​IMG]
    Ziggy (Zygarde) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Aura Break
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Coil
    - Dragon Tail
    Ignore shitty nickname plox This one could be used on Semi-stall teams and still would work with - priority instead of +. Max SDef is really painful for the other guy, and Coiling not only boosts Atk and Def but also ensures DTail always hits, which is good if you want to use it a lot. I've used this set a couple times, and while it only ever gets one KO (it's incredibly hard to kill something that's switching out all the time), it manages to wear down the opponents team a ton before the hax come in and Sleep Talk hits only Rest (or you misclick ;-;).

    Oh of course, how could I forget. Edited, thanks.
    And on the topic of a Krook/Flygon core, Moltres could be thrown in the mix. I takes advantage of their rock resistance, Flygon's defog, and gives back with fire moves for ice types. The only thing you might be afraid of is water types, a problem easily solved with HP Grass on Moltres, which is standard anyways, and Flygon's water neutrality.
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
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  8. Spirit

    Spirit
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    Alrighty, so quite a few things happened with tier shifts.

    We lost: Gastrodon, Amoonguss, Houndoom, Honchkrow, Ampharos, and Tangrowth. ._.

    We got: Ditto, Shuckle, Cobalion, Whimiscott, Hitmontop, and Exploud. .-.

    Basically, UU took away all our cool mons and gave us mostly rejects (like srsly, muh snail is gone ;;;;;).

    I do think the current ones have potential though. Ditto of course is very nice to have with a meta containing so many set up sweepers; we finally get a good defensive spinner in Hitmontop; Exploud looks okay with some sticky web support; Whimsicott looks pretty nice with that movepool and defensive typing; Shuckle seems mediocre; Cobalion, however, looks the most promising out of those guys. A fighting-type that can beat fairys is a very interesting addition. n_n
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2014
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  9. AeroForceOne

    AeroForceOne

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    I know for a fact that one pokemon that I will enjoy using in RU, and hopefully it will stay here this gen, is Flygon.

    Obviously with the likes of Zygarde being in the tier Flygon is kind of outclassed offensively, but I think it will find a new niche as a great utility pokemon with this set that I've fallen in love with as of late.

    [​IMG]

    Flygon @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Spd / 144 SAtk / 114 Atk
    Naive Nature
    - Defog
    - U-turn
    - Fire Blast
    - Earthquake

    I've been using this set in UU, so the EV spread on there is so that it can 2hko Chesnaught with Fire Blasts and just about 2hko Florges with Earthquake after Rocks. So I'll have to tweak the set depending on how RU turns out.

    I never thought that I would like this set this much until I used it. It's resistance to Rocks and immunity to Spikes and Sticky Web, coupled with it's ability to U-Turn and keep any momentum that you have, make it one of the most ideal Defog users in the game. (imo ofc)
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  10. Expulso

    Expulso

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    Mega Banette vs. Mega Abombasnow

    Really? Only 2 Megas?
  11. Melons-N-Soda

    Melons-N-Soda

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    Speaking of Abomasnow, I believe it will be great in RU. It's slow as ass and has lots of weaknesses though.

    I can see it working on Trick Room teams however.

    Banette is also a fairly interesting mega. It's one of the only Pokemon with Prankster Destiny Bond (For some reason I think Sableye gets that move but I'm not sure), and it also has other niches. It has 165 base attack as well, though it's offensive movepool is STABs and Gunk Shot, and some special options.
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2014
  12. EonX

    EonX @TheEonX
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    Departure of Ampharos is really disheartening as I loved using it. Houndoom leaving is no big surprise and it seem like the UU community is catching on to how good Mega Ampharos's typing really is on both offense and defense. Anyway, of the drop downs, there is one that really interests me. Pardon me if I start to ramble a bit about its possibilities:

    Cobalion

    Now, Cobalion is a very interesting Pokemon. It's one of only two Steel / Fighting types in the game and the other is locked away in OU (Lucario) Base 129 Defense is really good. This lets Cobalion handle most Knock Off users in the tier (Krook's EQ can hurt though, so be careful!) Now, there are 3 sets that I think will be really solid on Cobalion. First of all is the obvious Swords Dance set. This will likely consist of SD, Iron Head, Close Combat, and Stone Edge / X-Scissor. Thanks to the introduction of the Fairy-type, Cobalion's Steel STAB finally has a use. On top of that, its base 129 Defense and likelihood of holding a Lum Berry, it can set up all over Granbull if it chooses to forego Roar, getting to +3 reliably and doing some real work against the rest of the team. Next would be a Defensive Support set. Cobalion has base 129 Defense and some cool support moves in Stealth Rock, Toxic, Thunder Wave, Taunt, and Volt Switch (for some reason). Combined with a reliable STAB combination in Iron Head and Sacred Sword, this can let Cobalion reliably shut down many Dark- or Fairy-types depending on what you need. It can also stand up to Druddigon and an EQ from Scarf Krookodile with such a set. The last would be a Pivot Taunt set. Taunt+Volt Switch can be really annoying coming from base 108 Speed, and Cobalion can run any two of Close Combat, Flash Cannon (does more to Grandbull) Iron Head (handles Aromatisse better) HP Ice X-Scissor and Stone Edge in the last two slots depending on what threats the team needs Cobalion to better handle. Of course, if it uses a physical and a special move, the set would have to split EVs a bit more, but such a Cobalion would be more of an offensive utility Pokemon rather than an outright attacker. Really excited to try out Cobalion and see how good it can be in XY RU. It looks to have a lot of potential and versatility
  13. Magnemite

    Magnemite machamp with wings
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    If we end up using the 1760 stats for tiering, XY RU will change quite a bit. Here's a list of the changes:

    UU ---> RU:

    Ambipom
    Jolteon
    Machamp
    Honchkrow
    Ampharos
    Gastrodon
    Kingdra

    RU ---> UU:

    Zygarde
    Suicune
    Doublade
    Rhyperior
    Entei
    Reuniclus

    I cba to post my thoughts on this right now, but I might edit something in here later.
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  14. Melons-N-Soda

    Melons-N-Soda

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    Kingdra in RU.

    OH GOD PLEASE NO!

    Anyways, the rest of drops are very interesting. Machamp is annoying and good at the same time (Maybe we will see the rise of Own Tempo Slowking eventually; Hell even Own Tempo Lilligant can work), Honchkrow is a monsturous sweeper, Ampharos is a fairly good mega, Gastro is a great check to Water-types, and Jolteon is a decent Electric-type (And it'll probably be our best Pure-Electric because Manectric is gone).
  15. Ash Borer

    Ash Borer Throttle Chopper

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    mega Houndoom is the best mega in UU, how the hell was it ever RU even with just a small sample size?
  16. Hidious

    Hidious

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    The exodus of several megas into BL. Plus ignorance.
  17. RotomPoison

    RotomPoison

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    Lol @Hawlucha being bad in UU in the OP

    -editing something in now-
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  18. Jaguar360

    Jaguar360

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    I'd rather have Kingdra than Zygarde, Suicune, Entei or Reuniclus. Then again Ampharos would drop too...
    Still prefer the 1760 drops here.
  19. EonX

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    I would very much approve of Mega Ampharos being available in RU. I love using it in UU and any chance I get to use it in RU is just a bonus because it should be UU. It's like, the best switch-in for Tornadus-T and the physically defensive set switches into Crawdaunt reliably.

    Anyway, having Jolteon in RU would be really cool. Kind of like Manectric is/was in BW, but with slightly more power and much better Speed at the cost of Fire coverage.

    Honchkrow would be ridiculous and Machamp would be one of the best Fighting-types in the tier. Not even going to comment on Kingdra...
  20. Robert Alfons

    Robert Alfons The Lord's Favorite
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    Well, 1760 stats are officially being used for tiering now, so let's see what RU will probably get from it:
    - Machamp (this will make for a damn good AV user like Conkeldurr is in OU, expecting it to become a huge threat on BO teams)
    - Kingdra (I haven't looked too much into the meta but if it turns out stally, CritDra will probably become really anti-meta. Otherwise Rain Dance and Dragon Dance sweeping sets will do just fine too, scary fuckin Pokemon)
    - Ampharos (probably the only viable mega in RU, but with viable I mean extremely viable, as its typing and stats are godlike)
    - Honchkrow (the Staraptor of RU?)
    - Gastrodon (based slug, might be really cool on stall teams, Shaymin (who still would be RU) eats it for breakfast though)
    - Jolteon (finally it will end up in a tier where it belongs)
    - Ambipom (see above)

    I guess that's about it. Things we won't see include:
    - Zygarde (this thing is great in UU so why did it drop to begin with? Don't think RU would've been ready for something that can accumulate boosts as easily s Zygarde)
    - Suicune (it would've been entirely broken so it's good to see it won't get the chance to wreck the tier)
    - Reuniclus (Escavalier easily gets rid of it, but other than that this thing would cause massive trouble)
    - Cofagrigus (well I guess that means Dusclops won't be outclassed by Cofag for a change)
    - Entei (would've been scary af if not outright broken in RU, so once again, good call)
    - Rhyperior (eh, I'd say it would've been cool in RU, can't have everything I guess)
    - Doublade (whut? He's good but I had really expected it to stay in RU range)

    So there's a short summary, now go wild
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  21. EonX

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    I don't see Honchkrow being the Staraptor of UU. Its lower Speed makes Honchkrow more reliant on Sucker Punch (hello Sub users) and it doesn't have Reckless for the instant power Staraptor brings to the table. Also, so long as Mega Ampharos is in the tier, Honchkrow will have some serious issues since a physically defensive Mega Ampharos isn't taking much from any of Honchkrow's moves.

    +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mega Ampharos: 253-298 (66 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock. Even at +2, Honchkrow isn't breaking Mega Ampharos any time soon.

    Mega Ampharos will be an absolute beast if it stays in RU. I've been using it in UU and I absolutely love it there. Just about nothing is switching on Electric / Dragon coverage reliably and very few things can OHKO a standard 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef Mega Ampharos, much less a fully physically defensive or specially defensive set. I could legitimately see it getting banned if it stays in RU just due to how good it is offensively and defensively. Oh, and it gets Heal Bell. And it has Mold Breaker. Those are kind of a big deal.
  22. Hollywood

    Hollywood she's thin, she's blonde, she says "wow" a lot
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    Being reliant upon Sucker Punch isn't such a bad thing though. Yeah, it gives your opponent more room to play around it, but it also makes it much harder to revenge kill than Staraptor is because you can't rely on a Choice Scarf user or any slower priority. This means that Honchkrow has a somewhat advantageous position against more offensive teams, and it pretty much demolishes balanced teams without a dedicated counter.

    Physically defensive Mega Ampharos also sounds pretty bad to me outside of maybe a stall team. Without any sort of recovery (barring perhaps RestTalk with maybe Heal Bell, but that sacrifices Mega Ampharos's best role as a bulky pivot), it's difficult for Ampharos to switch in a lot without dedicated Wish support, and even that isn't the most reliable because this forces you to maneuver carefully in order to pull off the pass. It's also incredibly weak to Toxic Spikes and any other hazards really because of its lack of passive Leftovers recovery and even other methods of healing itself.

    Mold Breaker isn't really a big deal at all. I actually can't think of anything that Mega Ampharos can do to utilize the ability.

    None of this is to say that Mega Ampharos is a bad Pokemon or even a back answer to Honchkrow. But it's certainly not the end-all-be-all Honchkrow answer (in fact, it's 2HKO'd by LO +0 Sucker Punch with 252 HP/0 Def), and Honchkrow is definitely going to be a very scary Pokemon in the metagame should it drop. I recently play a bit of XY LU on PO, and while that metagame is definitely quite different from what XY RU here will most likely be, Honchkrow is still fantastic there and should remain consistent in our metagame as well.
  23. Kingpoleon

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    Here we might have Ferroseed to wall it, but it can't really do anything back bar Toxic against the few non ResTalk/Heal Bell. I can really see M-Amph being a major threat. Are there any possible walls anyone can see walling it and doing something back to it.
  24. EonX

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    Treecko , I haven't used it in RU yet, but the physically defensive Mega Ampharos set I run is VS, RestTalk, D-Pulse. Basically, this lets M-Ampharos reliably run RestTalk since there's a 33% chance of it picking Volt Switch from Sleep Talk. This means that nothing bar Ground-types can attempt to set up on it while sleeping. Also nice to absorb sleep inducing moves. Not as major now thanks to the buff to Grass-types and Overcoat, but it's still there.

    Kingpoleon , even Ferroseed can't comfortably wall M-Ampharos due to the threat of Focus Blast. Obviously, Heal Bell will most often be used over it, but there's still that threat that the Ferroseed user should probably scout for first before staying in.

    On the topic of M-Ampharos, try this thing in Trick Room. Slowking+M-Ampharos+Escavalier is a spectacular TR core to use. You get a TR setter, special attacker, and physical attacker between the three. Add in a couple of other setters and something like Emboar, Druddigon, or Machamp and that's a pretty solid team right there.
  25. Hollywood

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    Trick Room in general is really strong in PO's LU, and as long as we get Reuniclus, it will be super strong here. Slowking is here to stay, and last I checked, it looked like we were getting Snorlax, Escavalier, Bronzong, and more great Pokemon for that playstyle. Mega Ampharos obviously fits in really well in such a playstyle as well. Should be exciting because in the past, it was generally a fairly gimmicky strategy in singles.

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