Tournament RUPL Tier Discussion Thread

[-Tsunami-]

FRIENDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

alrite so i want some opinions on what ppl think the tiers should be for this tournament. im p much a dictator when it comes to rupl so i normally just decide everythin myself, but im not rly sure what direction to go w/ this. i want enough games for there to be ties, and preferably 8 slots. we're obviously including oras ru and bw2 ru. we've had a manager slot in the past so i mite bring that back or make it so that managers can buy themselves for like 15k maybe idk just a thought. im def not letting managers sub themselves in wherever like nupl because that's absolutely retarded.

ANYWAY, this is where the problem comes in. we've had "DPP RU" in the past, which is some gimmick coined by honko as an excuse to let dpp nu into this tournament. if enough ppl want that we can hav it but lol im not rly keen on that. ru's kind of in a dumb position because there's no dpp...we've had bw1 in the past but no1 even fucking plays bw1. like u hav to go scour the threads from like 4 years ago just to figure out what's even in the tier. we've also had xy ru in the past but like is that even relevant? i dont even know what the fuck is in xy ru anymore. anyway, as you can see there's kind of a conundrum here. nu has a bo3 slot but like what the fuck is the 3rd tier even going to be for that? anyway i definitely want 8 slots since anything less than that seems stupid. i mean at worst we can do 5 oras 3 bw2 but that seems dumb. i want more diversity. so...opinions please niggas :]

 

[atomicllamas]

Last year we did ORAS x3 XY BW2 x2 BW1x1 Manager

I think we should drop BW1, no one really knows the meta barring like oglemi honko nails and completel_legitimacy (that aren't presumably managing / actually playing), and somehow 2 of those 4 end up on the same team always.

That leaves ORAS x3 XY BW2 x2 Manager and one empty slot, we could do bo3 like NU does w/ ORAS XY BW2 but then we'll have non-managers playing the bo3 and I'm not sure a lot of non-managers will have experience with all 3. I like both XY and BW2 so I'd be fine w/ XY x2 or BW2 x3.

 

[Omfuga]

Implying I wasnt the best BW1 RU player


Also I really liked XY RU at least moreso than ORAS... was slowking there at the end of XY? And gligar. Those 2 MADE RU alas

 

[lighthouses]

Yea i was gonna say can't we have at least one slot for XY RU? I feel like it's different enough from the meta we have rn and theres not a lot of options either way

 

[Meru]

ORAS x 3 and one XY slot for sure

 

[MrAldo]

ORAS / ORAS / ORAS / XY / XY / BW2 / BW2 / Bo3 (or another BW2 slot depending if you people decide to include the manager slot or not)

Feel XY deserves some good representation here. It was a perfectly fine metagame and the resources available are more accountable and easier to find for people that want to remember the metagame itself. Yes, slowking and gligar were around in XY for the record.

BW1 just has to go honestly, the fact that it can cause people to use illegal teams way too often unless you are really familiar with it (which is like 5 people last time I saw) is just not practical and it has to go.

 

[Ajna]

I pretty much agree with Aldo, but I'd rather have another ORAS slot over a Bo3 spot. So it'd be four ORAS spots, 2 XY spots, and 2 BW2 spots. While I don't find XY to be a fantastic meta, it just seems lame to only have two tiers.

 

[col49]

yeah, this is always the weirdest one to set up, ugh. i'm against the bo3 slot personally, but i feel that's just personal preference more than anything. lowkey, i'd be fishing for oras x3 / xy / bw2 x2 / bw1 / manager again, b.c honestly both xy and bw1 are both pretty cool and unique metas in spite of some apparent player pool issues in the case of the latter. plus, tacking on an extra oras or bw2 feels like it over-inflates their impact on any given series, not to mention idt filling three bw2 slots per team is particularly plausible w/o reaching a bit.

 

[Meru]

I've been bringing it up in skype but I think a BL2 slot could be interesting. Any items/mons we've banned that do not currently have UU or OU usage would be fair game.

We decided a blanket Zoroark ban would be good just because Imposter is somewhat uncompetitive when Zoroark itself is actually a good mon in the tier

I think enough people would play it and we could learn some about old suspects in the current meta. I'd rather try that out than repeat a crusty meta that shouldn't have more than one slot

 

[-Tsunami-]

atm im leaning towards 3 ORAS / 2 bw2 / xy / manager slot / another oras, bw2, or xy (probably xy). meru's idea of a bl2 slot might be interesting as well. what do people think about that? opinions :o
btw ill prob post signups next week or somethin mayb and figure out managers. the tourney itself will prob start like early in may.

 

[MrAldo]

A BL2 slot sounds like a really interesting option but the idea could certainly be refained. Are we really gonna allow all of the BL2? Can be promising is the idea is refined a bit. Im all up for new experiments, if it doesnt work we jus discard it for next year :D

 

[Scythe.]

Total support on a bl2 slot, i think the amount of remaining slots per metagames shouldn't be touched as in now and perfectly fills the playerbase likely to signup (3 oras 1 xy 2 bw2). Allowing bl2 in rupl will let us know much more about potential retests (looking at shuckle) since a) it'll be involved in a good competitive environment b) as meru said the ru metagame shifted a bunch since most of these bans such as diancie/slowking's drop, so we could easily generate good metagame discussion using a few replays. however i could see a bunch of mons that still would be too much uncompetitive for that environment ie venomoth that is still as bs as ever. zoroark's pretty cancer to play around too, but probably less so than would be sharpedo (x froslass) which eats that hell of an offensive tier bl2 is. now removing half the tier leaves the purpose of including it pretty pointless, I just think people should keep in mind that it'll mostly serve for actual metagame matters, basically we want to see what's worth considering adding to the tier in the future. so yeah, what people think about working on a borderline in to the borderline, if we're ever including it ? - which it honestly should

Also, not a necessity; but if anything i'd remove bo3 to another xy slot, people seem to be underrating the amount of people experienced at xy ru quite a bit, I can easily make a list of people willing to be active for rupl that have had experience playing the latest stages of the tier, and that easily reaches 12 ppl without even stepping too much on the potential oras playerbase. We also have many resources at the disposal of people willing to play it so yeah. opinions~~

 

[DTC]

Total support on a bl2 slot, i think the amount of remaining slots per metagames shouldn't be touched as in now and perfectly fills the playerbase likely to signup (3 oras 1 xy 2 bw2). Allowing bl2 in rupl will let us know much more about potential retests (looking at shuckle) since a) it'll be involved in a good competitive environment b) as meru said the ru metagame shifted a bunch since most of these bans such as diancie/slowking's drop, so we could easily generate good metagame discussion using a few replays. however i could see a bunch of mons that still would be too much uncompetitive for that environment ie venomoth that is still as bs as ever. zoroark's pretty cancer to play around too, but probably less so than would be sharpedo (x froslass) which eats that hell of an offensive tier bl2 is. now removing half the tier leaves the purpose of including it pretty pointless, I just think people should keep in mind that it'll mostly serve for actual metagame matters, basically we want to see what's worth considering adding to the tier in the future. so yeah, what people think about working on a borderline in to the borderline, if we're ever including it ? - which it honestly should

The problem is it'll be impossible to tell what could potentially be retested in a metagame where there's like 12+ broken things because some broken things will hold down other broken things. A Pokemon that might not seem so strong in that meta because it's so offensive like Pangoro is still too strong for the main RU metagame to handle.

That said, it sounds fun if there are enough people interested in playing it.

 

[Pearl]

definitely drop bw1. it has little to no resources and its playerbase is dead (unfortunate because it was a really good tier, but when your main way of figuring out what was in the tier at the time is through RMTs and buried forum threads then you know there's something wrong)

xy is debatable. there are resources for that and some room to innovate even though moltres is a little piece of shit, but yeah i'd rather have an xy slot instead of all oras and bw2, to be fair.

bl2 is interesting on paper but it loses a lot of its appeal once people realize how much of an hot mess it is. would be hilarious to see omfuga go undefeated in it by using kyurem (yeah that's in bl2) every week though.

no dpp nu because nupl already covers that and lol it's not even ru

alternatively, you could use one of the oras slots to experiment with "controversial" bans. host a poll and share it with the ru playerbase to see which mons they want banned the most and then either ban the top 3-5 most voted mons all tour long for that 1 slot or ban 1 mon per week starting from the most voted to the 2nd most and so forth. a little sketchy though

preferred slot distribution: ORAS / ORAS / ORAS (idc if you decide to use my idea or not for this slot) / XY / BW2 / BW2 / BW2, XY or ORAS (ordered by preference, but i'm ok with all options) / Manager

 

[Scythe.]

The problem is it'll be impossible to tell what could potentially be retested in a metagame where there's like 12+ broken things because some broken things will hold down other broken things. A Pokemon that might not seem so strong in that meta because it's so offensive like Pangoro is still too strong for the main RU metagame to handle.

That said, it sounds fun if there are enough people interested in playing it.

That's the point of my in-borderline thing pretty much. If that still sounds too gross we can work on one different bl2 pokemon released every week ?_? i just wouldnt throw the thing as a whole personally

 

[feen]

That's the point of my in-borderline thing pretty much. If that still sounds too gross we can work on one different bl2 pokemon released every week ?_? i just wouldnt throw the thing as a whole personally

Would like to expand on this, a few months ago, I hosted a BL2 Tournament where one Pokemon from BL2 is released every week. I made sure that replays are saved, and they're all over this thread. Maybe this should give a few ideas about which Pokemon should be released and which should not be.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-bl2-tournament-won-by-chill-shadow.3562014/

 

[EonX]

I would certainly be open to a BL2 slot, but I think it would definitely need to be refined. Looking at BL2, there's some mons that are very obviously stupid for the tier to deal with right now (Yanmega, Zoroark, Pangoro, Froslass, KYUREM, Dragalge, and Tornadus are all BL2 for example) Quite literally the only Pokemon that looks manageable right now is Shuckle since Flygon is a Defogger that beats Sticky Web, but even then that just amplifies the problem we have with wallbreakers right now (seriously, we have so few SpDef mons that are viable, it's ridiculous) As far as slots go, I"m cool with a 3 /2 / 2 format (ORAS / BW2 / XY) with that 2nd XY slot possibly being replaced with a BL2 slot if we can refine that idea a bit.

 

[-Tsunami-]

Well, BL2 is weird as hell obviously. idk i think it might be interesting just to try out but there's definitely some flaws with it. I mean we could try banning some stuff but idk how viable that is tbh lol. atm im thinking 3 oras / 2 bw2 / 2 xy / manager is probably the best unless someone can justify that bl2 will be competitive / has ideas on how to fix it

if we can figure out which pokemon to release or w/e mayb usin data from that tour then thats fine. if we managed to put bl2 in here as a relatively "stable tier" which might not be possible, then i would put it over the 2nd xy slot 100%. but ye if ppl have ideas that would b cool

 

[Honko]

DPP RU best tier.

 

[MrAldo]

No idea how to fix the BL2 slot, like at all :(

3 ORAS / 2 BW2 / 2 XY / Managar will suffice.

 

[Lord Death Man]

I really want a BL2 slot, I think it's a pretty cool tier, but I completely understand concerns about how balanced it is.

That being said, I also think BL2 is one of the easiest ways for teams to fit in relatively unknown players, since essentially no one knows the tier (even the BL2 tour wasn't what BL2 would be). Also I think it's a fun tier, but would have to be set up in a way that BL2 doesn't feel like it's being weighted against real tiers. Also I want an excuse to play BL2.

3/2/2/1/1 would be the only way I see it working out. That's 9 slots and essentially turns BL2 into a tiebreaker.

 

[DittoCrow]

Drop 1 or 2 BL2 mons every round?

 

[rau]

If there is going to be a BL2 slot, might as well just have them all unbanned on the get-go. If Zoroark does seem like too much of a pain in the ass we could axe it at most imo. Only having two mons like Shuckle and Moltres doesn't really fit the whole idea of 'BL2'. While the problems of the scale of broken-ness all these BL2 pokemon have is pretty understandable, I feel like the metagame most people know filled with mons that skyrocket the hurdle of 'defining threats in the meta' would be more fun and interesting to watch than XY. man having tailwind + 3 attacks torn-i plus band goro would be the shizzle.

 

[Lord Death Man]

I agree with Ryoma; the idea of handpicking which ones we think are the least broken is weird and is just like playing ORAS except you both know you'll have one "extra" on your team.

I'd be okay with a Zoroark and maybe a Kyurem ban but banning the rest sort of goes against the spirit of unbanning multiple broken mons in the first place.