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Sableye Analysis (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by jackm, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. jackm

    jackm

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    Wow, I totally missed that. I'll get right on it.
  2. jackm

    jackm

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    It's written & ready for QC.
  3. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    Previous post (open)
    It seems to me like you were just doing the C&C just to get it over with. Elaborate more on how said counters function. Why do they beat Sableye? What can they come in on? What OHKOs Sableye and what 2HKOs?
    Add to C&C:
    - Reshiram
    - Fire Arceus, although rare
    - Blaziken
    - Kyogre doesn't give a single fuck about WoW
    - Darkrai deserves a mention as a check, and only a check
    - Dialga
    - Max SpA CM Arceus
    - Basically any strong special attacker, and give a few examples.
    * I want a stronger emphasis on Poison too.


    Once you imlement that, I'll give my stamp after I check again.


    Just noting: 252 Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 169-200 (55.59 - 65.78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Remove Kabutops mentions in the rain, its only really meaningful to Tentacruel.

    [QC]3/3[/QC]
  4. Governess

    Governess A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
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    Hihi, Amateur check. It's written pretty well =)

    Additions are Blue
    Removes are Red
    Comments are Purple.

    Amateur Check (open)

  5. jackm

    jackm

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    Thanks for the check! It's been implemented.
  6. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego This is what is technically known as a Firecat
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>When looking at Sableye's stats, it seems as though it should have no place in the Ubers tier. However, Sableye's awesome combination of a vast support movepool and Prankster enable it to function as a immensely useful supporter if used correctly. Prankster is a massive advantage that Sableye has over other Ubers utility Pokemon; it allows Sableye to fully invest in its bulk while outrunning some of the most eminent threats in the tier, (RC) and smacking them with a Will-O-Wisp before they can strike back. Access to Foul Play only compounds this advantage, giving Sableye a tool to hit many opponents exceptionally hard without needing to worry about investment.</p>

    <p>Because of priority Will-O-Wisp, Sableye can serve as a formidable physical wall despite its terrible bulk; through its use, Sableye satisfies one of its more important niches: countering Extreme Killer Arceus. Because it's immune to ExtremeSpeed, Sableye can&mdash;assuming a hit&mdash;burn Arceus before it can hit back; even if it uses Swords Dance on the switch, Arceus can't OHKO, regardless of its item. That being said, its Sableye's horrible special bulk holds it back, as it forces Sableye to only confront physically specialized and support Pokemon. Priority Taunt is another reason that Sableye is so useful. By restricting defensive opponents' options, Sableye can function as an effective stallbreaker; for example, Sableye can completely shut down Forretress and the pink blobs with Taunt and its Ghost typing, while Sleep Talkers are prevented from recovery and rendered helpless while they sleep. Sableye is an anti-metagame Pokemon thanks to said capabilities, and it is capable of handling entry hazard leads, Baton Pass teams, and stall teams on its own. Overall, Sableye must be played with caution, but in the right hands, it can be an effective and potentially deadly weapon against stall and offense teams alike.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Prankster
    move 1: Will-O-Wisp
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Taunt
    move 4: Foul Play
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Prankster
    nature: Bold
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Sableye's dangerous combination of Prankster, key support moves, and fair physical bulk thanks to Will-O-Wisp enable it to be a powerful tool for combating offensive and defensive threats alike. The moveset is fairly obvious, but every move plays a part. Priority Will-O-Wisp and Foul Play allow Sableye to hold its own against a wide variety of physical threats, including Excadrill, Groudon, and Extreme Killer Arceus. Once burned, the opponent can't boost up to try to break Sableye without taking a powerful Foul Play&mdash;for instance, a burned Extremek Killer Arceus is easily OHKOed by Foul Play at +4, while Sableye can easily Recover-stall its attacks out otherwise. Priority Taunt lets Sableye break down stall in conjunction with entry hazards by preventing the opponent from recovering or laying entry hazards, while against hyper offense it allows Sableye to prevent setup sweeps, though Sableye's lack of bulk means that in such a situation, (RC) it will often end up taking loads of damage. It also allows Sableye to function as a potent anti-lead, due to the fact that it neuters Deoxys-S and gives you breathing room against Darkrai if necessary. Finally, Sableye is a decent spinblocker. Defensive Excadrill's Substitute is broken by Foul Play, (RC) and Forretress can be shut down with Taunt. When using it Sableye, however, it's important to gauge the advantages that another spinblocker could bring. Sableye's bulk pales in comparison to that of the other Ubers spinblockers, and its cardinal role is annoyer, not spinblocker.</p>

    <p>Sableye's moveset is fairly self-explanatory. Recover provides a means of regaining HP, Foul Play decimates physically offensive opponents, Will-O-Wisp neuters physical attackers, and Taunt shuts down support and setup.Sableye is notably one of the only Pokemon that can guarantee success against Baton Pass in any form, due to priority Taunt shutting down any attempts to pass boosts.</p> This was all said previously, with the exception of Recover and Baton Pass stuff. If you think it's really necessary to highlight these, work it into the previous paragraph.


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread maximizes physical bulk. The remaining EVs are put in Speed to increase your chances of being able to Taunt opposing Sableye before they do the same. This is kind of silly, isn't it? Considering almost every other Sableye will be following this spread? Speed creep is usually not implemented into analyses Generally, Sableye should not serve as a part of a team's defensive core&mdash;its capacity for taking hits simply isn't up to par with other contenders like Ho-Oh, Kyogre, and Ferrothorn. Rather, a separate core should exist with Sableye aiding in shutting down sweepers and keeping entry hazards up if played well. Sableye can only spinblock if used with extreme care and correct prediction. All of the Rapid Spinners in Ubers have weapons with which they can eliminate Sableye easily otherwise&mdash;Forretress can Toxic and Excadrill, Tentacruel, and Kabutops can all 2HKO, though the latter two require weather to be in their favor. Sableye requires entry hazard control to function as well; any form of residual damage, for that matter, is detrimental to Sableye's ability to take a hit on the switch. Finally, Sableye also appreciates cleric support to remedy misprediction that results in it getting statused. In the case of Toxic Spikes, it can also alleviate the imminent problem of constant Toxic poison; however, Rapid Spin support&mdash;Sableye greatly appreciates a lack of hazards so that it can switch freely&mdash;or a Poison-type teammate to swiftly remove Toxic Spikes is advised as a teammate for Sableye, such as that from Excadrill, Forretress, or Tentacruel.</p>

    <p>A specially defensive spread could be used to beat Tentacruel and some +0 Mewtwo, but doing so greatly weakens Sableye's ability to take on physical attackers, which is unwise. Likewise, Toxic could be run over Will-O-Wisp to break down opponents faster and to hit Ho-Oh, but it forfeits Sableye's niche. In general, it's best to just stick to the original set.</p>

    <p>When using Sableye, remember not to underestimate its ability to take physical hits; you can easily come in on offensive Excadrill, burn it, recover HP, and use Foul Play with no chance of dying barring a crit or a Will-O-Wisp miss. An important thing to note is that Sableye itself does not have good bulk. Rather, it is its access to priority Will-O-Wisp that indirectly grants it the ability to sponge attacks from physical attackers. Sableye is an excellent addition to hyper offense teams, keeping entry hazards up when utilized correctly and neutering physical cleaners that hyper offense teams tends to struggle with. Sableye's priority Taunt means that it pairs up well with a spinner in teams that absolutely necessitate a lack of entry hazards. Because of its spinblocking ability and tendency to force switches, Sableye works best on a team whose focus is taking advantage of entry hazards. Sableye also forms an excellent core with Ferrothorn, due to several factors. Firstly&mdash;and most obviously&mdash;Ferrothorn's key proactive ability is laying Spikes, which Sableye can usually keep on the field with its spinblocking abilities. However, as has been noted previously, excellent prediction is required to spinblock successfully. Secondly, between Leech Seed, Will-O-Wisp, Iron Barbs, and Spikes, the opponent will also be taking an immense amount of residual damage. Thirdly, Sableye's Will-O-Wisp in conjunction with Ferrothorn's bulk and typing will usually mean that any physical attacker that lacks a Fire-type move will be powerless against the duo.</p>

    <p>Weather has an interesting effect on Sableye's utility. If you run it on a weather team, Sableye should only ever be used with sun or rain, as residual damage to Sableye of any kind is detrimental to Sableye's main goal. When running sun, Sableye can take advantage of its newfound ability to take on Tentacruel. However, the weather only gives a boost to opposing Fire-types, which are inconveniently immune to Will-O-Wisp. Meanwhile, rain cripples the aforementioned Fire-types. Kyogre as a teammate is very beneficial to Sableye; it has the capacity to take many of the special hits that Sableye cannot and shares stupendous synergy with Ferrothorn, one of Sableye's best partners. However, it guarantees that any opposing Tentacruel and Kabutops will be able to muscle through Sableye, compromising its ability to spinblock against the two should it be necessary.</p>

    [OTHER OPTIONS]

    <p>Because of Sableye's extensive support movepool, it has several other options for moveslots. A myriad of miscellaneous support moves along the vein of Trick, Torment, and Knock Off could be run, but they force Sableye to give up one of its core moves. Night Shade could be used in place of Foul Play to hit special attackers harder, but it's generally ineffective due to the fact that most special attackers will slaughter Sableye. A Calm Mind and Will-O-Wisp set could be run to boost both defenses, but once again, you need to forfeit a key move. A Substitute and Recover set faces a similar issue. When running a sun team, Moonlight appears to be an attractive option; however but, its inherent unreliability greatly outweighs the potential increase in survivability it could grant.</p>

    [CHECKS AND COUNTERS]

    <p>Sableye is hard countered by hard-hitting Fire-types, (AC) such as like Blaziken, Reshiram, Ho-Oh, Heatran, and the rare Arceus-Fire; Ho-Oh needs to watch out for Foul Play, though, because it OHKOes offensive variants after Stealth Rock. In return, however, Ho-Oh can easily OHKO Sableye with a sun-boosted Sacred Fire. Heatran in particular works extremely well, (RC) between of its typing and specially offensive approach. Though Lava Plume cannot OHKO, it does a massive amount of damage and can leave Sableye with a problematic burn. Though not immune to Will-O-Wisp, Kyogre doesn't mind Will-O-Wisp and can OHKO Sableye with a rain-boosted STAB after Stealth Rock. Espeon and Xatu can both stop its Sableye's annoyance by reflecting Taunt back at Sableye, but Foul Play does quite a number to both. A max specially offensive Arceus can OHKO Sableye with a neutral Judgment while fearing little in return. Pretty much any special attacker can take on Sableye and emerge victorious, ranging from Dialga to Palkia to Kyogre. Dialga easily switches in on Sableye and OHKOes with Draco Meteor, but a burn is detrimental to its otherwise formidable defenses. Likewise, Darkrai can check Sableye and 2HKO with Dark Pulse, but a burn will wear it down pretty quickly. As annoying as it is, Sableye doesn't pose a massive threat without walls to back it up; it can generally be outmanouvered and without its teammates, you can usually just beat the crap out of it. Mixed attackers work especially well in this role, as often times they can bait a Will-O-Wisp and take Sableye out with a powerful special attack. Bear in mind, however, that they will emerge from the confrontation with a burn unless Will-O-Wisp misses. While a faster Prankster Taunt seems to be an effective strategy to counter Sableye, the two main users options that can make use of it&mdash;Thundurus and Tornadus&mdash; would rather simply OHKO with a powerful Thunder or Hurricane, respectively. Heracross is another rare threat that fears nothing from Sableye; Will-O-Wisp gives it a Guts boost and it can easily shrug off a Foul Play. Entry hazards are another approach, especially Toxic Spikes; while it's nearly impossible to directly status Sableye unless it's unexpected, Toxic poison is an extremely effective way to take it down, compromising what little bulk it has and preventing it from annoying for long periods of time.</p>


    Not stamping governess' check, but it was very nicely done!
    jackm you forgot to remove the blue colorations from governess' check, don't let this happen again.
    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  7. jackm

    jackm

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    The above check has been implemented. I didn't perform a few changes because Furai specified otherwise, but that's all. Regarding speed creep, I guess I could put it in SDef but Sableye's so specially frail that the 8 evs really are better off in speed.
  8. Fizz

    Fizz

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    GP Placeholder
  9. Fizz

    Fizz

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    Changes/Additions
    Removals
    [Notes]




    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>When looking at Sableye's stats, it seems as though it should have no place in Ubers . However, Sableye's awesome combination of a vast support movepool and Prankster enable it to function as a immensely useful supporter if used correctly. Prankster is a massive advantage that Sableye has over other Ubers utility Pokemon; it allows Sableye to fully invest in its bulk while outrunning some of the most eminent threats in the tier and smacking them with a Will-O-Wisp before they can strike back. Access to Foul Play only compounds this advantage, giving Sableye a tool to hit many opponents exceptionally hard without needing to worry about investment.</p>

    <p>Because of priority Will-O-Wisp, Sableye can serve as a formidable physical wall despite its terrible bulk; it is in its use that Sableye finds one of its more important niches: countering Extreme Killer Arceus. Because it's immune to ExtremeSpeed, Sableye can&mdash;assuming a hit&mdash;burn Arceus before it can hit back; even if Arceus uses Swords Dance on the switch, it can't OHKO, regardless of its item. That being said, Sableye's horrible special bulk holds it back, as it forces Sableye to only confront physically specialized and support Pokemon [This sentence is essentially meaningless; it is implied by the preceding sentence.]. Priority Taunt is another reason that Sableye is so useful. By restricting defensive opponents' options, Sableye can function as an effective stallbreaker; for example, Sableye can completely shut down Forretress and the pink blobs with Taunt and by virtue of its Ghost typing, while Sleep Talkers are prevented from recovering and rendered helpless while they sleep. Sableye is an anti-metagame Pokemon thanks to said capabilities, and it is capable of handling entry hazard leads, Baton Pass teams, and stall teams on its own. Overall, Sableye must be played with caution, but in the right hands, it can be an effective tool [I think of Sableye as more of a tool than a deadly weapon, but you might have a different opinion.] against stall and offense alike.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Prankster
    move 1: Will-O-Wisp
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Taunt
    move 4: Foul Play
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Prankster
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Sableye's dangerous combination of Prankster, key support moves, and fair effective physical bulk thanks to Will-O-Wisp enables it to be a powerful tool for combating offensive and defensive threats. The moveset is fairly obvious, but every move plays a part. Foul Play and Priority Will-O-Wisp [order changed for clarity] allow Sableye to hold its own against a wide variety of physical threats, including Excadrill, Groudon, and Extreme Killer Arceus. Once burned, the opponent can't boost up to try to break Sableye without taking a powerful Foul Play&mdash;for instance, a burned Extreme Killer Arceus is easily OHKOed by Foul Play at +4, while Sableye can otherwise easily stall out its attacks with Recover. Priority Taunt lets Sableye break down stall in conjunction with entry hazards by preventing the opponent from recovering or laying entry hazards, while against hyper offense it allows Sableye to prevent setup sweeps, though Sableye's lack of bulk means that in such a situation it will often end up taking loads of damage. It also allows Sableye to function as a potent anti-lead, due to the fact that it neuters Deoxys-S and gives you breathing room against Darkrai if necessary. Finally, Sableye is a decent spinblocker. Defensive Excadrill's Substitute is broken by Foul Play and Forretress can be shut down with Taunt. When using Sableye, however, it's important to gauge the advantages that another spinblocker could bring. Sableye's bulk pales in comparison to that of the other Ubers spinblockers, and its cardinal role is annoyer, not spinblocker. Sableye is notably one of the only Pokemon that can guarantee success against Baton Pass in any form, due to priority Taunt shutting down any attempts to pass boosts.</p>


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread maximizes physical bulk. Generally, Sableye should not serve as a part of a team's defensive core&mdash;its capacity for taking hits simply isn't up to par with other contenders like Ho-Oh, Kyogre, and Ferrothorn. Rather, a separate core should exist with Sableye aiding in shutting down sweepers and keeping entry hazards up if played well. Sableye can only spinblock if used with extreme care and correct prediction. All of the Rapid Spinners in Ubers have weapons with which they can eliminate Sableye easily otherwise&mdash;Forretress can use Toxic and Excadrill, Tentacruel, and Kabutops can all 2HKO, though the latter two require weather to be in their favor. Sableye requires entry hazard control to function as well; any form of residual damage, for that matter, is detrimental to Sableye's ability to take a hit on the switch. Finally, Sableye also appreciates cleric support to remedy status resulting from mispredictions. In the case of Toxic Spikes, it can also alleviate the imminent problem of constant Toxic poison; however, Rapid Spin support or a Poison-type teammate to swiftly remove Toxic Spikes is advised, such as that from Excadrill, Forretress, or Tentacruel. [I don't understand what you're saying here. How does a cleric help at all with toxic spikes? Unless I'm misunderstanding something, this should probably be changed or removed.]</p>

    <p>A specially defensive spread could be used to beat Tentacruel and some Mewtwo, but doing so greatly weakens Sableye's ability to take on physical attackers, and is thus unwise. Likewise, Toxic could be run over Will-O-Wisp to break down opponents faster and to hit Ho-Oh, but it forfeits Sableye's niche. In general, it's best to just stick to the original set.</p>

    <p>When using Sableye, remember not to underestimate its ability to take physical hits; you can easily come in on offensive Excadrill, burn it, recover HP, and use Foul Play with no chance of dying barring a critical hit or a Will-O-Wisp miss. An important thing to note is that Sableye itself does not have good bulk. Rather, it is its access to priority Will-O-Wisp that indirectly grants it the ability to sponge attacks from physical attackers. Sableye is an excellent addition to hyper offense teams, keeping entry hazards up when utilized correctly and neutering physical cleaners that hyper offense teams tends to struggle with. Sableye's priority Taunt means that it pairs up well with a spinner in teams that absolutely require a lack of entry hazards. Because of its spinblocking ability and tendency to force switches, Sableye works best on a team whose focus is taking advantage of entry hazards. Sableye also forms an excellent core with Ferrothorn, due to several factors. Firstly&mdash;and most obviously&mdash;Ferrothorn's key proactive ability is laying Spikes, which Sableye can usually keep on the field.However, as has been noted previously, excellent prediction is required to spinblock successfully. Secondly, between Leech Seed, Will-O-Wisp, Iron Barbs, and Spikes, the opponent will also be taking an immense amount of residual damage. [How does this benefit Sableye specifically? You just stated a fact about Ferrothorn.] Thirdly, Sableye's Will-O-Wisp in conjunction with Ferrothorn's bulk and typing will usually mean that any physical attacker that lacks a Fire-type move will be powerless against the duo.</p>

    <p>Weather has an interesting effect on Sableye's utility. If on a weather team, Sableye should only ever be used with sun or rain, as residual damage to Sableye of any kind is detrimental to Sableye's main goal. When running sun, Sableye can take advantage of its newfound ability to take on Tentacruel. However, the weather only gives a boost to opposing Fire-types, which are inconveniently immune to Will-O-Wisp. Meanwhile, rain cripples the aforementioned Fire-types. Kyogre as a teammate is very beneficial to Sableye; it has the capacity to take many of the special hits that Sableye cannot and shares stupendous synergy with Ferrothorn, one of Sableye's best partners. However, it guarantees that any opposing Tentacruel and Kabutops will be able to muscle through Sableye, compromising its ability to spinblock against the two should it be necessary.</p>

    [OTHER OPTIONS]

    <p>Because of Sableye's extensive support movepool, it has several other options for moveslots. A myriad of miscellaneous support moves along the vein of Trick, Torment, and Knock Off could be run, but they force Sableye to give up one of its core moves. Night Shade could be used in place of Foul Play to hit special attackers harder, but it's generally ineffective due to the fact that most special attackers will slaughter Sableye. A Calm Mind and Will-O-Wisp set could be run to boost both defenses, but once again, a key move must be forfeited. A Substitute and Recover set faces a similar issue. While Moonlight may appear to be an attractive option in combination with sun, its inherent unreliability greatly outweighs the potential increase in survivability it could grant.</p>

    [CHECKS AND COUNTERS]

    <p>Sableye is hard countered by hard-hitting Fire-types, such as Blaziken, Reshiram, Ho-Oh, Heatran, and the rare Arceus-Fire; Ho-Oh needs to watch out for Foul Play, though, because offensive variants are OHKOed after Stealth Rock. In return, however, Ho-Oh can easily OHKO Sableye with a sun-boosted Sacred Fire. Heatran in particular works extremely well between of its typing and specially offensive approach. Though Lava Plume cannot OHKO, it does a massive amount of damage and can leave Sableye with a problematic burn. Though not immune to Will-O-Wisp, Kyogre can OHKO Sableye with a rain-boosted STAB after Stealth Rock. Espeon and Xatu can both stop Sableye's annoyance by reflecting Taunt back at Sableye, but Foul Play does quite a number to both. A max Special Attack Arceus can OHKO Sableye with a neutral Judgment while fearing little in return. Essentially any special attacker, ranging from Dialga to Palkia to Kyogre, can take on Sableye and emerge victorious. Dialga easily switches in on Sableye and OHKOes with Draco Meteor, but a burn is detrimental to its otherwise formidable defenses. Likewise, Darkrai can check Sableye and 2HKO with Dark Pulse, but a burn will wear it down fairly quickly. As annoying as it is, Sableye doesn't pose a massive threat without walls to back it up; it can generally be outmanouvered and without its teammates, you can usually just beat the crap out of it. Mixed attackers work especially well in this role, as often times they can bait a Will-O-Wisp and take Sableye out with a powerful special attack. Bear in mind, however, that they will emerge from the confrontation with a burn unless Will-O-Wisp misses. While a faster Prankster Taunt seems to be an effective strategy to counter Sableye, the two main users of it&mdash;Thundurus and Tornadus&mdash; would rather simply OHKO with a powerful Thunder or Hurricane. Heracross is another rare threat that fears nothing from Sableye; Will-O-Wisp gives it a Guts boost and it can easily shrug off a Foul Play. Entry hazards are another approach, especially Toxic Spikes; while it's nearly impossible to directly status Sableye unless it's unexpected, Toxic poison is an extremely effective way to take it down, compromising what little bulk it has and preventing it from annoying for long periods of time.</p>


    Alright. Great writing. Here's the thing. Between almost every pair of words, you have too many spaces. I don't know how this happened, but I found multiple instances of four spaces between words, and I think a single space is the exception and not the rule. It's really distracting. I'm not gonna fix this for you, so once you implement this check, please go through and fix this.

    Edit: What the hell? After posting this, all these extra spaces don't show up. No wonder you didn't notice them. As to whether they actually need to be changed to be fixed on-site, I don't have a clue. But if you hit "Quote", I think you'll see what I'm talking about.

    One other thing: does "&mdash;" correctly translate to a dash on-site? If not, please replace those with actual dashes.

    Good work.

    GP 2/2
    [​IMG]
  10. jackm

    jackm

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    Check implemented. This is ready to be uploaded.
  11. Nexus

    Nexus Day 358: Believe
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