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Sableye (BW2 Revamp)-QC 3/3, GP 2/2

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by tehy, May 15, 2013.

  1. Vertex

    Vertex

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    The Calm Mind set sucks, it won't be sweeping in BW2. Remove the Trick set and AC the move and optional item in the AC of Standard or just slap it in OO. The Standard set should look like this in my opinion.

    [SET]
    name: Standard
    move 1: Will-O-Wisp
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Taunt
    move 4: Foul Play / Snarl / Night Shade
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    You have priority Will-O-Wisp anyways and the extra Defense doesn't help as much compared to max Special Defense. Well, this is what I usually run on my Sableye.
  2. tehy

    tehy

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    Well, i basically did it.

    Ready for QC

    Edit: I got TOLD, SON! OHHHH, SICK BURN

    This post shall stand forever as a thank you to the one who told me. God bless you, and america.
  3. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
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    I know what you are saying, but I think hyping that it loves ss / hail is pushing it just a little. Sure, neutral weather is a boon for Sableye, however having its leftovers cancelled out is annoying, and its not like Sableye is even bad in Sunlight and maybe Rain (I personally know a few people that had success with Sableye on sun, tho Rain would prolly prefer Jellicent). Its a skeleton analysis so far and all that but just don't oversell SS / Hail, it has its downsides with Sableye just like the other weathers.

    Again, get what your saying, just be careful because the combination isn't utterly terrible. Tyranitar isn't a bad switch to some Heatran, and Sableye can switch into and choice locked fighting moves that might be directed at Tyranitar. Tyranitar is also fairly bulky on the special side, and appreciates burns to cripple fighters + physical super effective moves. Lastly, Tyranitar can trap / kill / cripple Celebi that lack BP (and Scarf can technically win there) and Latios. The latter is a pain for Sableye as DM utterly cripples it, while the former is exceptionally frustrating if it packs Heal Bell which threatens to undo Sableyes status work. So yea, rephrase a little idk.

    O.k, I agree that Sableye hates Toxic Spikes, I don't agree with you undervaluing the value of a spinner, especially when we have access to a spinner and Toxic Spikes absorber in 1 via Tentacruel. Sableye doesn't NEED a spinner its true, but it still appreciates someone or something getting rid of Toxic Spikes or layers of Spikes / SR that stack up. There will be times you might want to switch into that Physically Bulky Starmie to block that spin, and it will be times like those that you will be thankful if your friendly spinner managed to spin away that layer of Spikes + SR.

    Reword or something, I don't like how a spinner is listed as being "too much" support which its not a bad option.

    Address the above please

    [qc]1/3[/qc]
  4. tehy

    tehy

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    Well sure but a few things:

    It loves SS/Hail because it lets it actually beat stuff like Blissey. Otherwise, Blissey just kind of switches endlessly and PP stalls and etc, it's REALLY annoying. This goes for a lot of special attackers.

    Also, I guess he does like sun but Rain IMO is just such a bad idea. A:Jellicent exists and B:he can't touch most fire-types that hard anyhow so he doesn't care if they are crippled. And meanwhile, any water type stomps his face p.hard. But i can mention those two, rain kills fires and sun kills waters.

    TTAR: I was just saying it's a bit redundant since they both mess up Psychics. And foul play actually 2hitko's latios;after 2 switch-ins to SR it's nearly dead. And messes up celebi. But still, sableye does appreciate them dead.

    Idk, sableye doesn't switch around that much. So i feel like a spinner is too much support. Tenta is an exception and i can mention that it also spins for him, but honestly, i feel like he appreciates spin very little and i don't want to just mention it because it's a thing, especially considering no spinner really has excellent synergy with him that I recall (Guess he does take Psychics for tenta). I personally run one with him, but that's a function of my team and not him himself.

    QC 1/3 now, i guess? Unless you feel like i didn't change hard enough.
  5. AJC

    AJC

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    i would say keep in mind WoW misses are the bane of this thing because nothing sucks more than WoW missing as you take a hit from the likes of CB terra stone edge or something like that because even if you live you have to switch out or use recover to avoid death even if you try to wisp again.
  6. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    ^yeah this, wow missing = dead sab most of the time and the 75% accuracy i think is one of the main reasons this cool set doesnt see more usage. that said sab is still a monster and worth using as a spinblocker primarily on sun balance/stall but it also works on any type of team as a utility annoyer and phys/spin check.

    i ran some calcs and realized that the 120def/136sdef set is dumb as hell, theres no reason to not be running 252hp/252sdef like i've been running on my rain stall forever. i dunno why some qc members are arbitrarily advocating what has been seen as the 'standard' sab ev spread when in reality it sucks. change pls and list 120/136 as an ac option!

    mention somewhere that night shade is the only move thats actually gonna beat subsd terrakion. snarl is lol and foul play breaks sub but gives terra +1 due to justified which prevents sab from walling it assuming it dances up on the broken sub (or just attacks). worth noting i guess.

    nice job tehy, just apply these changes and afaik this is good 2 go

    qc approved 2/3
  7. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    252 HP / 120 Def allow Sableye to beat CB Scizor 1 v 1, as Bullet Punch never 2HKOes, assuming WoW connects. Idk if this is a good enough reason to keep the spread, just pointing out the facts.
  8. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    yeah i know about that one but sab isnt exactly meant to take on cb scizor. espec if youre running this on a stall team then you will probably have 2-3 better answers to sciz, i know sun has tales/forry/tran usually and those all do a better job than sab. connecting with burn can make your life a whole lot easier vs it though.

    i guess the main point i was trying to get across (and maybe failed to do?) is that sab does better vs the things it's supposed to be good against by running a fully sdef spread. spinblocking especially is made a lot easier by just going 252/252. that's more important to me than cb sciz check
  9. tehy

    tehy

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    Yeah, I noticed this a while back.

    Basically the more def lets it take on some super strong physical attackers a lot better, but...those are so reluctant to come in anyways because they get burned and then they're near-useless. You can also burn Scizor if it tries to U-turn and it often does (I have no earthly idea why).

    And yeah, you can spinblock way more. You're also forced out by less special attackers (LO latias:Does not OHKO with draco meteor, even after SS some of the time.)

    But thanks for telling me why Alexwolf, because that was information that was super missing from the analysis.

    OKAY so i'm putting as qc 2/3 which means it is time me to GET ON UP. And... write it up. Etc. Which will happen at A POINT IN TIME not too far from now.
  10. nmitchell890

    nmitchell890

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    I would like to point out that 252HP 120Def has a decent chance to avoid the 2HKO from even 252+ Donphan Earthquake if Will-o-Wisp connects. But that is nothing compared to taking a dump on Starmie and Tentacruel, not to mention things like the aforementioned Life Orb Latios. I think simply 252HP 252SpD does best for Sableye nowadays.
  11. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    After doing some calcs, i found out that only 252 HP / 96 Def EVs are needed to avoid the 2HKO from CB Scizor's Bullet Punch, assuming Scizor is burned when attacking the second time. This means that unless there is something i am missing you can change the EV spread to 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SpD with a Calm nature.
  12. tehy

    tehy

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    Well the main spread will be max SpD, unless a lot of QC members disagree.

    But that can be an AC spread, i suppose, so thanks for that.
  13. tehy

    tehy

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    Looks like this analysis just got *Puts on shades* Written up.

    So let's get that third stamp. What did i miss. A lot? Probably. Parentheses have some cool information to share with you.
  14. BKC

    BKC
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    qc approved 3/3
  15. tehy

    tehy

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    Okay, tell you what

    I'll leave this for like... half a day in QC 3/3

    If no one has anything further to say i'll proofread it myself super hard and then it'll be GP 0/2. I still feel as though I may have missed some detail and i'd hate to submit an incomplete analysis. (Also:anyone got any OO's?)
  16. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    While you mention in the end of the overview that Sableye is a good stallbreaker, you haven't really explained why. So, add in the overview a sentence to talk about how Sableye shuts down and beats most defensive Pokemon with the combo of Taunt + WoW + Recover, with a few exceptions, such as Heatran, Poison Heal Gliscor, and Poison Heal Breloom (and the latter two can't do anything back and become setup bait for teammates after they get Taunted).

    Also, you really need to seperate your massive paragraphs to smaller ones. For example, the overview can be split to two parts, the second of which starts here: ''And yet...not all is rubies and sapphires for Sabley''.

    Furthermore, in the AC you can divide the huge wall of text you have right now based on what you talk about. EV spread explanation + alternative moves and spreads in one paragraph and teammates in another one.

    I guess that the paragraph issue could be fixed by the GP team, but it is an easy thing to do yourself anyway.

    Mention that Sableye can't directly switch-in to Tentacruel and Starmie, even more so in rain, as Scald + burn will leave Sableye recovering all the time and eventually getting crited, not to mention that offensive Starmie just 2HKOs Sableye and Tentacruel can also Toxic it on the switch. Also, leaving Sableye against Heatran and Volcarona is usually not a good idea, as Lava Plume will burn and cripple Sableye, while Volcarona often carries Flame Body and can also potentially burn Sableye with Flame Body.

    Overall the content of the analysis is good, but you tend to overexplain some things, a problem which the GP team can fix.
  17. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    As an important second notion on Alexwolf's part, PLEASE, and I do mean, PLEASE do your best to make this concise and easy for newer players to read; realistically, unless you're an avid newspaper reader, nobody will enjoy trying to trudge through an entire block of text, then move on to the other humongous block.

    Additionally, glancing at it, I can see you added a few "personal notes." I'd advise just removing those and letting QC/GP take care of what can be added and whatnot.

    Overall, keep it simple, if possible, since obviously everybody knows what Recover or will-o-Wisp or whatnot does in an objective point of view.
  18. tehy

    tehy

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    Hey alex and AG thanks for all this

    But Sableye CAN and actually does switch into Starmie/Tenta directly. Only LO hydro pump or Scald starmie really gets Sableye. LO surf is recover stalled, doubly so with SS and will have to recover before you die in most circumstances. Hydro will generally miss before you die, although you could get super unlucky. Surf can just be recover stalled for a bit until you have full HP.

    As for tenta sableye will get burned but so will tenta (Or toxic'd but eh, against rain teams sable rarely stays in so long in any case)

    I think the Heatran thing is more offensive heatran. As for volca, if you have snarl, it can't burn you. Essentially it'll spam Fiery Dance, and as long as it doesn't win every 50/50 boost, it'll gradually lose SpA. Or it'll spam QD and just get snarled forever (you can taunt if this is getting super annoying.)

    Okay so I did most of that, i'm going to go do stuff and come back in like 2 hours

    say whatever you want now or forever hold your peace. (Or just tell me in the GP stage but that's a bitch really)

    Well alex snarl drops every turn, fiery only half, so you get it low enough that you can recover safely, etc. I said they destroy him in rain already, basically. Also, yes you have to hit it as it comes in, but now you can actually have a chance of beating it was the point there. Sableye will most likely just stall it out of Fire Blasts, which is awesome.
  19. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    To make it clear, Tentacruel, LO and defensive Starmie outside of rain can be handled by Sableye. However, in rain all of offensive Starmie, Tentacruel, and defensive Starmie will be able to get past Sableye, so make sure to mention that rain really humpers Sableye's effectiveness against the best spinners in OU.

    Also idk about Volcarona, it's kind of a stalemate (where Sableye is on the loosing place as Snarl does little damage compared to Fiery Dance), so just mention that Sabelye can prevent Volcarona from setting up in a desperate situation. And offensive Heatran must be hit with Snarl on the switch in order to avoid the 2HKO, and you should switch out Sableye as long as you lower Heatran's SpA to levels where your team can take care of it, as Sableye can't do nothing in terms of damage to Heatran and may get burned ot OHKOed by a crit Fire Blast in the proccess.
  20. tehy

    tehy

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    Alright, this is ready for GP now

    Unless someone disagrees? Doubt anyone does at this point
  21. cbt

    cbt doom
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    amcheck

    changes (open)
    [Overview]

    Sableye is one of the most unique pokemon you'll ever meet, cursed with horrible stats but blessed with an amazing ability in Prankster and a movepool to match. Heabuse Prankster very well. It also has a nifty typing, sporting 3 immunities while totally lackhaving no weaknesses. The combination of these traits leaves many teams weak to himit without even knowing it, and many Pokemon can't even switch in without being either heavily damaged or burned. Although hSableye can't switch in very welleasily, once heit does switch in, a great deal of Pokemon simply cannot do anything to himit at all. HeIt also walls or checks a great deal of Psychic- and Fighting-types, and can smash many Psychic-types as they come in with Foul Play, generally scoring a 2HKO at the least, while also acting as an expert useful spinblocker.

    And yet...not all is rubies and sapphires for Sableye. Fire- and Water-types, especially bulkier ones such as Heatran and Gastrodon, check Sableye adeptly, and Poison Heal Gliscor and Breloom can essentially neutralize it in any given match. To make matters worse, Sableye's main source of offense and defense, Will-oO-Wisp, has a nasty 25% chance of missing, which can be detrimental to Sableye's health. In the end, while most Pokemon can do some damage once their checks and counters are down, Sableye is one of the few Pokemon that can actively assist in wearing down said checks and counters without being too inconvenienced, or too defensive to get off a clean sweep, all while being a useful defensive Pokemon, a spinblocker, and a stallbreaker.

    name: Standard
    move 1: Will-o-Wisp
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Taunt
    move 4: Foul Play / Snarl / Night Shade
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    The crux of this set, unfortunately, does not existis set has no main vital move, since Sableye's first three moves are all equally important. Will-oO-Wisp allows Sableye to cripple an innumerable amount of physical attackers who would otherwise eat himit alive, while giving him a way to wear down defensive Pokemon, and even annoy specially offensive one attackers. Recover lets Sableye heal, which allows it to stick around long enough to be more than a momentary nuisance, potentially lasting forever against more defensive teams. Taunt shuts down defensive Pokemon, while preventing pretty much every form of setup known to man, specifically letting you defeat bulky boosters and physical sweepers that attempt to fight through the burn with multiple boosts, and stops suicide leads in their tracks. Foul Play is a base 95 STABpower STAB move that makes use of the foe's attack while ignoring a foe's burn, while also conveniently hitting against multitude of troubling special attackers super effectively. These qualities let it heavily damage Espeon, Starmie, Celebi, Alakazam, Latias, Reuniclus, Gengar, Latios, Darmanitan, Lum Berry Dragonite, Darmanitan, Sspecially Ddefensive Xatu, Conkeldurr with Guts active, Victini, Tornadus-I, and generally any strong physical attacker as it comes in, while also letting it deal with the first seven in a one-on-one situation and just deal good damage in general.

    Snarl lets Sableye wall basically any special threat by hitting it on the switch-in, although you may need to Snarl again for extremely strong special attackers, such as Choice Specs Thundurus-T and Choice Specs or Life Orb KeldeoKeldeo with a boosting item in the rain, and also lets it deal with some of the aforementioned special attackers in a one-on-one situation more easily, giving Sableye the ability to spinblock Tentacruel and Starmie with ease, and even force offensive Heatran and Volcarona into a stalemate, or let another teammate switch in on them easily. However, Snarl is unable to deal with powerful physical attackers that can break you even when burned, and although it lets you wall threats, it won't get rid of them, and they will generally be back to make your life difficult. It also leaves Sableye unable to deal much damage and increases the amount of turns that Sableye is in, which usually results in a critical hit ruining Sableye's fun. Night Shade does consistent damage to most things, even when Sableye is burned, and lets you deal more damage to Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Scizor, while 2HKOing Ooffensive Volcarona after Stealth Rock and dealing heavy damage to Rotom-W. It is also Sableye's only way to deal any real damage to Heatran, its eternal bane, and it breaks the Substitute of Substitute Swords DanceSD Terrakion without giving it a Justified boost.

    Generally, Sableye checks or counters physical threats, notably countering Swords Dance Lucario or Toxicroak, while checking essentially every physical booster and handily dealing with Offensive Trick RoomTR Reuniclus and Alakazam. Meanwhile, it shuts down most bulky boosters, such as Calm Mind Reuniclus, Cosmic Power Sigilyph, Curse Cradily, and even to an extent Calm Mind Latias. It can also reliably spinblock Forretress and defensive Donphan, as well as most Starmie and Tentacruel outside of the rain. Offensive Donphan can get past it by hitting it on the switch-in with Earthquake, and Life Orb Starmie can take Sableye down with Hydro Pump in any weather but sun. Tentacruel and Starmie can destroy it in rain, although it can burn Tentacruel to strip it of its healing, and can still deal heavy damage to Starmie with Foul Play. The combination of Will-oO-Wisp, Taunt, and Recover lets Sableye defeat most common stall Pokemon by burning them, Taunting them to prevent recovery or status moves, and recovering off any damage taken from their weak attacks.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    Since Sableye is able to deal with the majority of physical attackers via Prankster Will-oO-Wisp, heit has full investment into SpDecial Defense and HP to tank special attackers better, with the last 4 EVs in Defense to take physical attacks slightly better. However, if you're looking to survive misses and take on Choice Banded physical attackers better, a balanced EV spread of 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SpD works, notably letting you avoid the 2HKO from a Choice Band Scizor's Bullet Punch. Full investment in physical defense is also a viable option. In terms of support, Sableye loves Heal Bell, since it can 1v1defeat bulky waters one-on- one with no fear of Scald burns, and no longer has to fear Toxic from defensive Pokemon as it comes in. Specially Defensive Celebi can provide Heal Bell, free switch-ins for Sableye via Baton Pass/U-turn, and take on Conkeldurr, Poison Heal Breloom and Gliscor, and most special attackers, especially rain-boosted ones. Blissey can do much of the same, while also walling Heatran and taking sun-boosted Fire attacks, and appreciates a good Fighting-Ttype switch-in.

    Entry hazards are Sableye's only real way of breaking its premier counter, defensive Heatran, so it definitely appreciates them. Ferrothorn willcan provide Stealth Rock and Spikes, and appreciates having Fighting-types taken care of for it and will take on Latios and most Water-types in return. Skarmory can also provide the samehazards and enjoys having physical threats burned, but it is also capable of doing the heavy lifting against many of them. Heatran and Tyranitar provide Stealth Rock while taking on Fire-types and strong special Dragons, and enjoy how Sableye can's ability to deal with most Fighting-types. Heatran in particular takes on Volcarona and lets Sableye come in on Choiced Fighting-type attacks with Protect, while Tyranitar's sandstorm lets Sableye wear down foes faster. Sableye generally prefers to be in either sand or hail, since they wear down Pokemon much faster. In particular, Hail makes it much easier to chip away at Gliscor and Heatran, and Abomasnow appreciates how Sableye deals with Fighting-types and suicide Stealth Rock leads. Of course, Hippowdon and Tyranitar provide sand and can both lay Stealth Rock. Tyranitar has much better synergy with Sableye, and although they create a redundancy by dealing with many of the same Psychic-types, Tyranitar can permanently take care of athe few Sableye can't with Pursuit.

    Of course, sun and rain can also be helpful to Sableye, nerfing Water-types or Fire-types that otherwise trouble Sableye and letting him enjoy Leftovers recovery. However, in sun Sableye is demolished by Fire-types, and in rain, Water-types, and letting them have this ability 100% of the time can be a hindrance. Toxic is an option if you crave more damage, but this shrinks Sableye's niche considerably, stripping him of the ability to stall out Steel-types and check physical threats. Mean Look can allow you to trap a threat that is unable to defeat you but is unaware of this or hoping to accomplish something as you burn it. Finally, Toxic Spikes trouble Sableye considerably, since even regular poison can render him unable to stall out some threats effectively, while Toxic poison is essentially a death warrant. Although its weather preferences and Sableye's don't mesh well, Tentacruel is the best choice for to absorb them, taking on Water- and Fire-types for Sableye, laying its own Toxic Spikes, spinning hazards, and just sponging special attacks, although any Poison-type will do, as they all share the same basic synergy of Sableye taking on Psychic-types for them. Starmie is a good choice if you feel Sableye needs spin support, as is the aforementioned Tentacruel. Starmie takes on Fire-types and can reliably switch into and take on bulky Waters without fearing a burn.

    [OTHER OPTIONS]

    Shadow Sneak lets Sableye hit many special threats weak to it before they can hit him, possibly KOing them if they're weakened. Prankster Confuse Ray and Swagger paired with Recover and possibly Substitute or Foul Play can induce rage and force switches, although it can also result in you accomplishing nothing. Sableye can get off a priority Rain Dance, but so can Tornadus and it can actually use the rain summoned. Metal Burst can smash a few threats, but Sableye has such low HP that you'll need to risk death to deal it, making this an inferior choice. A Calm Mind set can actually sweep or just get up to some stalling shenanigans, but always lacks a crucial move and is thus rendered mediocre at best. Sableye has priority Trick but has trouble landing that Trick on the right Pokemon. As a final note, Keen Eye and Stall are completely worthless. Do not even attempt to use them.

    [CHECKS AND COUNTERS]

    Any faster Prankster with Taunt gives Sableye headaches, although heit can 2HKO Tornadus even without Stealth Rock. Defensive Heatran cares little for anything Sableye does except Night Shade, and can become annoying with a Flash Fire boost, while Offensive Heatran is much easier to wear down but is much more dangerous with Flash Fire active. Xatu is much rarer, but is an even greater threat, reflecting back Taunt and Will-o-Wisp, all while Roosting and attacking or using Toxic on Sableye, although some Xatu are 2HKO'ed by Foul Play. Espeon can also reflect back those two moves, but is easily 2HKO'ed by Foul Play, and generally can't hit Sableye back for much. Poison Heal Breloom and Gliscor wall Sableye once statused, although if Sableye can burn them on the switch-in, then they can't do anything to him.

    Incredibly strong special attackers not weakthat resist or are neutral to Foul Play, such as Keldeo, Magnezone, Thundurus-T, and Landorus-I, to name a few, can destroy Sableye, and even those weak to it, such as Latios, Life Orb Starmie, and Life Orb Latias, can still cause problems for Sableye if they switch in safely. Guts Conkeldurr can take a burn and set up or attack, although Foul Play does respectable damage to it once burned. Very strong Choice Banded physical attackers can break Sableye despite the burn, and Choice Band Scizor can 2HKO Sableye with Bullet Punch if it comes in safely. Bulky Waters can take most of Sableye's hits and burn him with Scald while also dealing good damage, particularly Hydration Vaporeon in the rain, which laughs at anything Sableye does, and Gastrodon outside of Hail, which will take far too long to wear down. Fire-types generally don't mind anything Sableye can do, although Night Shade 2HKOs most Volcarona after Stealth Rock and Darmanitan, Victini, and Chandelure take heavy damage from Foul Play. Finally, any wielder of the move Magic Coat can reflect a Will-o-Wisp or Taunt back at Sableye, and generally renders himit useless.


    c/p (open)
    [Overview]

    Sableye is one of the most unique pokemon you'll ever meet, cursed with horrible stats but blessed with an amazing ability in Prankster and a movepool to abuse Prankster very well. It also has a nifty typing, sporting 3 immunities while having no weaknesses. The combination of these traits leaves many teams weak to it without even knowing it, and many Pokemon can't even switch in without being either heavily damaged or burned. Although Sableye can't switch in very easily, once it does switch in, a great deal of Pokemon simply cannot do anything to it at all. It also walls or checks a great deal of Psychic- and Fighting-types, and can smash many Psychic-types as they come in with Foul Play, generally scoring a 2HKO at the least, while also acting as a useful spinblocker.

    And yet...not all is rubies and sapphires for Sableye. Fire- and Water-types, especially bulkier ones such as Heatran and Gastrodon, check Sableye adeptly, and Poison Heal Gliscor and Breloom can essentially neutralize it in any given match. To make matters worse, Sableye's main source of offense and defense, Will-O-Wisp, has a nasty 25% chance of missing, which can be detrimental to Sableye's health. In the end, while most Pokemon can do some damage once their checks and counters are down, Sableye is one of the few Pokemon that can actively assist in wearing down said checks and counters without being too inconvenienced, or too defensive to get off a clean sweep, all while being a useful defensive Pokemon, a spinblocker, and a stallbreaker.

    name: Standard
    move 1: Will-o-Wisp
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Taunt
    move 4: Foul Play / Snarl / Night Shade
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    This set has no main vital move, since Sableye's first three moves are all equally important. Will-O-Wisp allows Sableye to cripple an innumerable amount of physical attackers who would otherwise eat it alive, while giving him a way to wear down defensive Pokemon, and even annoy special attackers. Recover lets Sableye heal, which allows it to stick around long enough to be more than a momentary nuisance, potentially lasting forever against more defensive teams. Taunt shuts down defensive Pokemon, while preventing pretty much every form of setup known to man, specifically letting you defeat bulky boosters and physical sweepers that attempt to fight through burn with multiple boosts, and stops suicide leads in their tracks. Foul Play is a base 95 power STAB move that makes use of the foe's attack while ignoring a foe's burn, while also conveniently hitting a multitude of troubling special attackers super effectively. These qualities let it heavily damage Espeon, Starmie, Celebi, Alakazam, Latias, Reuniclus, Gengar, Latios, Darmanitan, Lum Berry Dragonite, Darmanitan, specially defensive Xatu, Conkeldurr with Guts active, Victini, Tornadus-I, and generally any strong physical attacker as it comes in, while also letting it deal with the first seven in a one-on-one situation and just deal good damage in general.

    Snarl lets Sableye wall basically any special threat by hitting it on the switch-in, although you may need to Snarl again for extremely strong special attackers, such as Choice Specs Thundurus-T and Keldeo with a boosting item in the rain, and also lets it deal with some of the aforementioned special attackers in a one-on-one situation more easily, giving Sableye the ability to spinblock Tentacruel and Starmie with ease, and even force offensive Heatran and Volcarona into a stalemate, or let another teammate switch in on them easily. However, Snarl is unable to deal with powerful physical attackers that can break you even when burned, and although it lets you wall threats, it won't get rid of them, and they will generally be back to make your life difficult. It also leaves Sableye unable to deal much damage and increases the amount of turns that Sableye is in, which usually results in a critical hit ruining Sableye's fun. Night Shade does consistent damage to most things, even when Sableye is burned, and lets you deal more damage to Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Scizor, while 2HKOing offensive Volcarona after Stealth Rock and dealing heavy damage to Rotom-W. It is also Sableye's only way to deal any real damage to Heatran, its eternal bane, and it breaks the Substitute of SubSD Terrakion without giving it a Justified boost.

    Generally, Sableye checks or counters physical threats, notably countering Swords Dance Lucario or Toxicroak, while checking essentially every physical booster and handily dealing with OTR Reuniclus and Alakazam. Meanwhile, it shuts down most bulky boosters, such as Calm Mind Reuniclus, Cosmic Power Sigilyph, Curse Cradily, and even to an extent Calm Mind Latias. It can also reliably spinblock Forretress and defensive Donphan, as well as most Starmie and Tentacruel outside of the rain. Offensive Donphan can get past it by hitting it on the switch-in with Earthquake, and Life Orb Starmie can take Sableye down with Hydro Pump in any weather but sun. Tentacruel and Starmie can destroy it in rain, although it can burn Tentacruel to strip it of its healing, and can still deal heavy damage to Starmie with Foul Play. The combination of Will-O-Wisp, Taunt, and Recover lets Sableye defeat most common stall Pokemon by burning them, Taunting them to prevent recovery or status moves, and recovering off any damage taken from their weak attacks.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    Since Sableye is able to deal with the majority of physical attackers via Prankster Will-O-Wisp, it has full investment into Special Defense and HP to tank special attackers better, with the last 4 EVs in Defense to take physical attacks slightly better. However, if you're looking to survive misses and take on Choice Banded physical attackers better, a balanced EV spread of 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SpD works, notably letting you avoid the 2HKO from a Choice Band Scizor's Bullet Punch. Full investment in physical defense is also a viable option. In terms of support, Sableye loves Heal Bell, since it can defeat bulky waters one-on- one with no fear of Scald burns, and no longer has to fear Toxic from defensive Pokemon as it comes in. Specially Defensive Celebi can provide Heal Bell, free switch-ins for Sableye via Baton Pass/U-turn, and take on Conkeldurr, Poison Heal Breloom and Gliscor, and most special attackers, especially rain-boosted ones. Blissey can do much of the same, while also walling Heatran and taking sun-boosted Fire attacks, and appreciates a good Fighting-type switch-in.

    Entry hazards are Sableye's only real way of breaking its premier counter, defensive Heatran, so it definitely appreciates them. Ferrothorn can provide Stealth Rock and Spikes, and appreciates having Fighting-types taken care of and will take on Latios and most Water-types in return. Skarmory can also provide hazards and enjoys having physical threats burned, but it is also capable of doing the heavy lifting against many of them. Heatran and Tyranitar provide Stealth Rock while taking on Fire-types and strong special Dragons, and enjoy Sableye's ability to deal with most Fighting-types. Heatran in particular takes on Volcarona and lets Sableye come in on Choiced Fighting-type attacks with Protect, while Tyranitar's sandstorm lets Sableye wear down foes faster. Sableye generally prefers to be in either sand or hail, since they wear down Pokemon much faster. In particular, Hail makes it much easier to chip away at Gliscor and Heatran, and Abomasnow appreciates how Sableye deals with Fighting-types and suicide Stealth Rock leads. Of course, Hippowdon and Tyranitar provide sand and can both lay Stealth Rock. Tyranitar has much better synergy with Sableye, and although they create a redundancy by dealing with many of the same Psychic-types, Tyranitar can permanently take care of the few Sableye can't with Pursuit.

    Of course, sun and rain can also be helpful to Sableye, nerfing Water-types or Fire-types that otherwise trouble Sableye and letting him enjoy Leftovers recovery. However, in sun Sableye is demolished by Fire-types, and in rain, Water-types, and letting them have this ability 100% of the time can be a hindrance. Toxic is an option if you crave more damage, but this shrinks Sableye's niche considerably, stripping him of the ability to stall out Steel-types and check physical threats. Mean Look can allow you to trap a threat that is unable to defeat you but is unaware of this or hoping to accomplish something as you burn it. Finally, Toxic Spikes trouble Sableye considerably, since even regular poison can render him unable to stall out some threats effectively, while Toxic poison is essentially a death warrant. Although its weather preferences and Sableye's don't mesh well, Tentacruel is the best choice for to absorb them, taking on Water- and Fire-types for Sableye, laying its own Toxic Spikes, spinning hazards, and just sponging special attacks, although any Poison-type will do, as they all share the same basic synergy of Sableye taking on Psychic-types for them. Starmie is a good choice if you feel Sableye needs spin support, as is the aforementioned Tentacruel. Starmie takes on Fire-types and can reliably switch into and take on bulky Waters without fearing a burn.

    [OTHER OPTIONS]

    Shadow Sneak lets Sableye hit many special threats weak to it before they can hit him, possibly KOing them if they're weakened. Prankster Confuse Ray and Swagger paired with Recover and possibly Substitute or Foul Play can induce rage and force switches, although it can also result in you accomplishing nothing. Sableye can get off a priority Rain Dance, but so can Tornadus and it can actually use the rain summoned. Metal Burst can smash a few threats, but Sableye has such low HP that you'll need to risk death to deal it, making this an inferior choice. A Calm Mind set can actually sweep or just get up to some stalling shenanigans, but always lacks a crucial move and is thus rendered mediocre at best. Sableye has priority Trick but has trouble landing that Trick on the right Pokemon. As a final note, Keen Eye and Stall are completely worthless. Do not even attempt to use them.

    [CHECKS AND COUNTERS]

    Any faster Prankster with Taunt gives Sableye headaches, although it can 2HKO Tornadus even without Stealth Rock. Defensive Heatran cares little for anything Sableye does except Night Shade, and can become annoying with a Flash Fire boost, while Offensive Heatran is much easier to wear down but is much more dangerous with Flash Fire active. Xatu is much rarer, but is an even greater threat, reflecting back Taunt and Will-o-Wisp, all while Roosting and attacking or using Toxic on Sableye, although some Xatu are 2HKOed by Foul Play. Espeon can also reflect back those two moves, but is easily 2HKOed by Foul Play, and generally can't hit Sableye back for much. Poison Heal Breloom and Gliscor wall Sableye once statused, although if Sableye can burn them on the switch-in, then they can't do anything to him.

    Incredibly strong special attackers that resist or are neutral to Foul Play, such as Keldeo, Magnezone, Thundurus-T, and Landorus-I, to name a few, can destroy Sableye, and even those weak to it, such as Latios, Life Orb Starmie, and Life Orb Latias, can still cause problems for Sableye if they switch in safely. Guts Conkeldurr can take a burn and set up or attack, although Foul Play does respectable damage to it once burned. Very strong Choice Banded physical attackers can break Sableye despite the burn, and Choice Band Scizor can 2HKO Sableye with Bullet Punch if it comes in safely. Bulky Waters can take most of Sableye's hits and burn him with Scald while also dealing good damage, particularly Hydration Vaporeon in the rain, which laughs at anything Sableye does, and Gastrodon outside of Hail, which will take far too long to wear down. Fire-types generally don't mind anything Sableye can do, although Night Shade 2HKOs most Volcarona after Stealth Rock and Darmanitan, Victini, and Chandelure take heavy damage from Foul Play. Finally, any wielder of the move Magic Coat can reflect a Will-o-Wisp or Taunt back at Sableye, and generally renders it useless.
  22. tehy

    tehy

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,617
    Well, i implemented that, but a few things

    Firstly, i can use He so long as i'm consistent about it, and i am

    Secondly, the Crux thing is pretty specifically a jab at that phrase in general, while also explaining that you need all three of those moves for Sableye to work and they're all about equally important.

    Other than that a few things i didn't implement, a good bit of cleanup I did myself, thanks CBT!

    Edit: and even more cleanup, which i should've done in the first place. Now let's get a GP stamp, hopefully
  23. sirndpt

    sirndpt
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  24. tehy

    tehy

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,617
    Implemented

    And ashamed, hot damn did I miss too much shit

    Double proofreading if I ever do this again
  25. Rohail

    Rohail Vaporeon <3
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    [​IMG]GP Check[​IMG]
    ADD
    REMOVE
    COMMENTS

    Reason for the sentence removal (second sentence; set comments): If you choose to implement my change on the numerous Pokemon mentioned in the paragraph before this one, the sentence serves no purpose. If you don't choose to implement my change, then you will find that this sentence has already been stated (just in different words) in the last sentence of the first paragraph and in the beginning of the second paragraph (in set comments).

    If you have questions (you probably do), feel free to VM me.

    Anyway, good job on this.

    [​IMG]
    GP Approved 2/2

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