Sableye [QC 3/3] (GP 2/2)

SpaceBass

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Overview
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  • Great stop to Mega Kang and physical attackers in general as Prankster Will-o-Wisp allows you to cripple them before they attack
  • Able to disrupt speedy attackers by abusing Prankster Quash, letting your slower mons deal with the threat before it strikes
  • Fits well on teams that have pokemon that are on the physically frail side or are not quite fast enough, as quash and WoW help
  • While Taunt is a good choice, if the role you need is purely to stop Tailwind and Trick Room, Thundurus-I is a better choice. It is also threatened by faster taunts as they can stop Sableye from doing its job
  • Almost no offensive presence at all, so your team mates must be able to take advantage of the support Sableye provides
  • If opponents don't fear burns or Quash, Sableye can become dead weight very quickly
  • Its average bulk is a drawback
  • Functions well vs speed control as Quash ignores Tailwind and Trick Room, allowing you to strike first and waste opposing field conditions
  • Its moveset is unique and no other pokemon can fulfil the specific job it provides

Prankster
########
name: Prankster
move 1: Will-o-Wisp
move 2: Quash
move 3: Feint / Taunt / Fake Out
move 4: Protect / Foul Play / Recover
ability: Prankster
item: Sitrus Berry / Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 SpD
nature: Impish / Careful

Moves
========
  • Will-o-Wisp allows Sableye to threaten almost all of the physical attackers in the tier, as if they don't switch out they risk a burn, as well as wear things down with residual damage
  • Quash makes the target move last, ignoring Trick Room, Tailwind and Choice Scarfs. This allows a partner to pick off a threat that would normally outspeed and KO
  • Feint can break Protect and Quick / Wide guard for a turn, ensuring a KO on something trying to defend, Taunt lets you prevent status to you and your partners and also stops opponents from using Protect. Fake Out can disrupt opposing leads and buy a turn for yourself. Sableye is immune to Fake Out, aswell as having the move itself, so its almost guaranteed you'll be able to flinch something
  • Protect lets Sableye protect itself from an incoming attack or Taunt while the threat is removed by a partner, Foul Play gives Sableye some damage output without investing in attack. Recover gives reliable healing, and is great for stalling burnt physical attackers

Set Details
========
  • 252 HP EVs to aid overall bulk
  • 184 SpD allows Sableye to always live a sun boosted Zard Y Heat Wave, and a Rain Boosted Ludicolo Hydro Pump in rain
  • Remaining 72 put into Def, and with an Impish nature lives a Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off with a little room to spare
  • Sitrus Berry is used normally, but if using detect, Leftovers are an option for more gradual recovery
  • An alternate spread of 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 SpD with a Careful nature if you want Sableye to take hits better from special attackers, as when faced with Sableye, physical attackers will usually protect while a special attacker deals with it. The 68 Def is to live an Adamant Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off in case Will-o-Wisp misses
  • If using Foul Play, you can drop your speed IVs to 0 and use a Relaxed or Sassy Nature so that Foul Play hits after Aegislash changes to blade form and OHKO
Usage Tips
========
  • Can stand up to almost any physical attacker in the game as they risk being burnt if they stay in, so they will almost always either protect or switch out
  • Sableye's main role is to disrupt the opposing team and make it more difficult to deal with your teammates
  • Quash can be very effective as it effectively nullifies all forms of speed control in place, allowing you to get a move in that wouldn't have been possible otherwise, taking alot of pressure off your partner. It also helps while Trick Room is up, for example, Quashing an Amoonguss while Trick Room is up, and substituting with your partner to avoid a Spore
  • Is a great lead to disrupt the opponent, but Sableye can also switch in using its immunities to support late game

Team Options
========
  • Pokemon with good special bulk but low physical bulk like Sylveon, Mega Gardevoir and Mega Charizard Y enjoy the burn support that Prankster WoW gives
  • Steel Types that can sponge Fairy attacks such as Heatran and Aegislash help, both are kinda slow, bulky and very powerful and in return like the Quash and burn support that Sableye provides
  • Sableye is threatened by Fire types like Charizard Y and Heatran, so partners like Heatran and Keldeo fit well to switch-in to these attacks
  • Partners like Mega Charizard and Mega Abomasnow benefit from Quash, as it can protect Zard Y from a scarfed Landorus T Rock Slide and hit it with Overheat before it attacks, while Abomasnow is slow, it can be protected by Quash while it lets off a Blizzard, but be careful as this stacks a weakness to Fire-types.
  • Mega Kangaskhan is a good partner as Sableye can burn the Fighting types that threaten it, aswell as switch-in to Fighting attacks, use Quash to let Kang KO a faster threat, and burn an opponent to weaken its offence vs Kang so it can set up with Power Up Punch easier

Other Options
########
  • It gets Helping Hand although other mons do this better
  • Trick can be used with a Lagging Tail to make the target always move last in its priority bracket, as Sableye has Prankster and isn't really affected by it
  • Trick can also be used with Iron Ball, and while Lagging Tail is generally better, Iron Ball removes Ground immunities so works well with Landorus-T or Rhyperior
  • Mental Herb can allow Sableye to safely Taunt the faster Thundurus I and Whimsicott
  • Knock Off lets you remove troublesome items like Sitrus Berries and Leftovers, as well as preventing Sableye for being Thundurus Taunt bait
  • Snarl lowers both opponents SpA by 1 stage which is effective coupled with the burns from Will-o-Wisp


[OVERVIEW]

Sableye is a great stop to physical attackers in general, particularly Mega Kangaskhan, as it can burn them using Prankster Will-O-Wisp before they can attack. Prankster Quash gives Sableye the ability to disrupt speedy attackers by allowing its partner to get an attack in before the foe can strike. It fits well on teams with a weakness to physical attackers or teams that aren't quite fast enough and need some support. While it carries Taunt, its main role is not to prevent Trick Room or Tailwind being set up; if this is your aim, Thundurus is a better choice. Its niche over Thundurus is that it fits better on teams with a weakness to physical attackers. Faster Prankster Taunt users threaten Sableye, as it is naturally slower than them. Your team must be able to capitalize on the support Sableye provides, as Sableye has next to no offensive presence. If the opponent is not troubled by Quash or Will-O-Wisp, Sableye becomes dead weight quickly. Its average bulk is quite a drawback. Quash is great against teams with Trick Room or Tailwind, as it nullifies the opponent's Speed advantage and wastes a turn of their field condition.

[SET]
Prankster
########
name: Prankster
move 1: Will-O-Wisp
move 2: Quash
move 3: Feint / Taunt / Fake Out
move 4: Protect / Foul Play / Recover
ability: Prankster
item: Sitrus Berry / Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 SpD
nature: Impish / Careful

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========


Will-O-Wisp allows Sableye to threaten almost all of the physical attackers in the tier, as if they don't switch out they risk being burnt, as well as to wear things down with residual damage. Prankster Quash ignores Tailwind, Trick Room and faster Pokemon, allowing Sableye's partner to move before a threat and take it out. Feint can break Protect and Quick / Wide Guard for a turn, ensuring a KO on something trying to defend, and Taunt lets you prevent status to Sableye and its partners and also stops foes from using Protect. Fake Out can disrupt opposing leads and buy a turn for your Pokemon. Sableye is immune to Fake Out, as well as having the move itself, so it's almost guaranteed that it'll be able to cause an opposing Pokemon to flinch. Protect lets Sableye protect itself from an incoming attack or Taunt while the threat is removed by a partner, whereas Foul Play gives Sableye some damage output without investing in Attack. Recover gives reliable healing and is great for stalling burnt physical attackers. Detect can be used over Protect if you fear Imprison, but Imprison is very rare.

Set Details
========


252 HP EVs are used to aid Sableye's fairly poor bulk. 184 Special Defense EVs allow Sableye to live Mega Charizard Y's sun-boosted Heat Wave, as well as Ludicolo's rain-boosted Hydro Pump. The remaining 72 EVs are put into Defense, and with an Impish nature so Sableye can live Bisharp's Life Orb-boosted Knock Off with a little room to spare. Sitrus Berry is used normally to improve Sableye's longevity, but Leftovers can be used alongside Protect for a more gradual form of healing. An alternate spread of 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 SpD with a Careful nature can be used if you want Sableye to take hits from special attackers better, as, when faced with Sableye, physical attackers will usually Protect while their specially attacking partner deals with Sableye. The 68 Defense EVs are used to live Adamant Bisharp's Life Orb-boosted Knock Off in case Will-O-Wisp misses. If using Foul Play, you can drop Sableye's Speed IVs to 0 and use a Relaxed or Sassy nature so that Sableye can OHKO Aegislash with Foul Play by moving after it changes to Blade forme.

Usage Tips
========


Sableye has a good match-up against almost every physical attacker in the tier, as they won't want to risk the burn and will either Protect or switch out most of the time. Sableye's role is to disrupt the opponent as much as it can while its teammates take advantage of this and deal damage. Quash can be very effective, as it effectively nullifies all forms of speed control, allowing your Pokemon to use a move that it wouldn't have been be able to otherwise. It also helps while Trick Room is up; for example, Quashing an Amoonguss under Trick Room and Substituting with Sableye's partner to avoid a Spore. Leading with Sableye can be very disruptive to your opponent; however, Sableye can also switch in and support its teammates late-game, thanks to its three immunities.

Team Options
========

Pokemon whose special bulk is acceptable but whose physical bulk is lacking appreciate the burn support Sableye provides; such Pokemon include Sylveon, Mega Gardevoir, and Mega Charizard Y. Slow and powerful attackers that resist Fairy, such as Heatran and Aegislash, are good partners because they can sponge Fairy-type attacks aimed at Sableye and take advantange of the Quash and burn support that Sableye provides. Sableye is threatened by Fire-types such as Mega Charizard Y and Heatran, as it can't burn them, so partners like Heatran and Keldeo fit well to switch into these attacks. Partners like Mega Charizard Y and Mega Abomasnow benefit from Quash, as it can allow Mega Charizard Y to use Overheat on Choice Scarf Landorus-T before being hit by its Rock Slide. Mega Abomasnow is slow, so it can be protected by Quash while it uses Blizzard, but be careful, as using Mega Abomasnow stacks a weakness to Fire-types. Mega Kangaskhan is a good partner, as Sableye can burn the Fighting-types that threaten it, as well as switch into Fighting attacks, use Quash to let Mega Kangaskhan KO a faster threat, and burn a foe, weakening its physical power and allowing Mega Kangaskhan to set up with Power-Up Punch more easily.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============


Sableye gets Helping Hand, but it is not an ideal choice and is a role provided better by another Pokemon. Sableye can use Lagging Tail with Trick, as due to Prankster Sableye is seldom affected by Lagging Tail's effect of making the user move last in its priority bracket. Iron Ball can also be used with Trick to remove a foe's Ground-type immunity and halve their speed, which works well with Ground-type teammates such as Landorus-T and Rhyperior. Mental Herb can protect Sableye from opposing Taunts from faster Pokemon such as Thundurus and Whimsicott, allowing Sableye to Taunt them in return. Knock Off lets Sableye remove troublesome items like Sitrus Berry and Leftovers, as well as preventing Sableye from being completely shut down by Taunt. Snarl lowers both foes' Special Attack by one stage, which is effective when combined with the burns from Will-O-Wisp. Mega Sableye is generally not a very good use of your Mega Evolution, as its proficiency at stallbreaking doesn't really apply to Doubles, where stall teams do not exist, and Cresselia is a better Calm Mind user.

Checks and Counters
===================


**Typing Advantage**: Fairy-types such as Mega Gardevoir and Sylveon can easily OHKO Sableye with Hyper Voice. Mega Mawile has a 75% chance to OHKO Sableye with Play Rough even while burnt. Mega Diancie can OHKO Sableye with Moonblast and has Magic Bounce, so it can't be threatened by Will-O-Wisp. Fire-types such as Heatran and Rotom-H also can't be burnt, and as a result, all Sableye can do if it isn't carrying Snarl is use Quash in the hope that a partner can deal with them. Sableye isn't particularly bulky, so neutral attacks do take their toll without recovery. Talonflame can't be burned and can ignore Quash with faster priority.

**Strong Special Attackers**: Any special attacker that can 2HKO Sableye is a check to it. Sableye can't do anything meaningful to them unless they are weak to Foul Play, and it can't Recover stall against them. Some, like Hydreigon and Latios, can OHKO Sableye, in these cases with Draco Meteor. Slower special attackers such as Rotom-W and Aegislash do not mind Quash; however, Aegislash must watch out for Foul Play.

**Utility**: Pretty much all of the other Prankster Taunt users are faster than Sableye, and it is vulnerable to this. Also, you might be surprised by a Taunt user like Keldeo or Talonflame. Whimsicott can also Encore Sableye into an unfavorable move. Safeguard users such as Cresselia and Whimsicott leave Sableye unable to burn anything, but they can be Taunted. Talonflame and Keldeo can use Quick Guard to block priority moves from Sableye.

**Guts**: Hariyama and Conkeldurr can use Guts to absorb burns and become more powerful.
 
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Not QC, but mega sableye should carry dark pulse bc of 0 immunities and can hit mega kang, or at least slashed I think.
 
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Darkmalice

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Overview - I refer you to Stratos' guide to an overview
You also need to put more emphasis on the moves it has over the other Prankster users



I would change the set to this

move 1: Will-O-Wisp
move 2: Quash
move 3: Taunt / Fake Out / Detect
move 4: Foul Play / Knock Off
ability: Prankster
item: Sitrus Berry
evs: 252 HP / 8 Def / 248 SpD

WoW and Quash are its best moves and differentiate it from the other Prankster users. They should be on every Sableye set. Quash is very underrated, and it lets Sableye not suck too much against special attackers since they're usually enjoy Speed

Fake Out is not the best option for every team. Sableye has things it wants to get done like spread burn which is much harder to get done when Sableye is using Fake Out. Sableye also encourages a lot of switches which really hurts Fake Out use. Meanwhile I like Taunt because prankster Taunt is awesome, and it greatly improves it's effectiveness against support Pokemon like Amoonguss and TR users who otherwise only feared Knock Off (and losing your item isn't that big of a deal in such a fast-paced metagame). Detect is slashed as it helps get around Sableye's bad bulk. I want some further QC opinion on the slashes, as most people prefer Fake Out - srk1214 BLOOD TOTEM Arcticblast Stratos

Foul Play is there as it's the only way Sableye can deal decent damage; uninvested 75 base attack is disappointing. Sableye needs one attacking move so that it isn't utterly destroyed by Prankster Taunt.

The reason for the 8 Def is that it guarantees survival from LO Talonflame's Brave Bird

Move Recover to OO. Sableye usually doesn't have time for it or the bulk to make good for use

in OO, mention Trick with Lagging Tail, not Scarf. Remove Choice Scarf. Sableye is a horrible choice for Tricking it as it's so limiting for Sableye should it not want to Trick Scarf, where as Lagging Tail has little impact on Sableye itself

Also OO Mental Herb and Roseli Berry

I'd also remove all mentions of the non-mega set, as you shouldn't ever be using the mega set
 

SpaceBass

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Yeah I figured sableye would be a fiddly mon.

I forgot I even wrote this until now, I did it after not sleeping for a while lol
 

Bughouse

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I agree with the general trends of the set DM posted, but still think it's off. Willo is definitely mandatory, and Quash almost is too. It's a really neat move.

I personally think Fake Out is a terrible move on Sableye. While Sableye is there to disrupt, a move that only works on one turn, during which you might actually prefer to Quash or WoW seems so bad on paper, regardless of how good Fake Out is.

On the other hand, Feint can be used to break Protects, and Taunt can be used to sort of prevent them in the first place, though it doesn't work if they protect that turn...

I'm also not convinced Sableye needs an actual damaging attack at all (beyond maybe Feint). It probably does if you're using Fake Out, but since I disagree with Fake Out in the first place, that's a moot point to me. The set I've used most is Willo, Quash, Feint, Protect (which yes should be detect, my bad)

Finally, I've always preferred mixed defenses, but that was probably mostly just laziness. I don't know good benchmarks, but I'm sure we can find em.
Maybe something like:
252+ SpA Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 184 SpD Sableye in Rain: 256-303 (84.2 - 99.6%)
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 184 SpD Sableye in Sun: 247-292 (81.2 - 96%)

Sableye should still be carrying some level of Def, since one of the whole points is to be able to check physical threats. Priority Willo is great, but not if you can't even switch in in the first place.
 

Darkmalice

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Sableye is one of those Pokemon that can be used in many ways. Sadly most players who use it aren't good and use it ineffectively. Some players have their preferences, I like Taunt and Foul Play more than most people, Lolk likes Snarl, srk likes Feint. Other than WoW and Quash, it can be varied quite a bit and there should be some flexibility with those last 2 moves. I wanna hear what other QC say before deciding on those 2 moves.

srk - 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 SpD?

It achieves your benchmarks whilst also providing just enough Def to survive Bisharp's Knock Off in case of a miss or you mispredict a Sucker Punch

252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 68 Def Sableye: 255-302 (83.8 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 

Bughouse

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no, actually you don't need +spdef to live the hits I mentioned. I've used Impish.
My spread is 252 / 72 / 184 Impish

In any case, living that Bisharp hit is a minimum so that you can switch in if you have to and then Willo it.

So unless there's something between 184 SpDef and 188+ SpDef that matters a ton, I don't want to go beyond there. I mean it's already living a Char-Y Heat Wave in Sun and a Ludi Hydro in Rain. What more do you want? Even going to 188+ doesn't guarantee safety from something like Latios or Hydreigon. I'd rather dump the rest into Def since Sableye is primarily a check to physical mons.
 

Level 51

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hi ran into this from spacebass's siggy :] i'm not qc, but i use sableye a lot, so here is a little bit of input:
- slash recover, or at the very least OO it! it's really annoying to deal with especially when half your team is burnt and the other half is getting mauled by pokemon slower than them thanks to quash
- optimise the EV spread. srk's spread is pretty nice imo :)
 

SpaceBass

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I think I got everything, but I was going from a few posts so it wasn't clear what was going where at the end of it.
 

Bughouse

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Snarl is not worthy of being on the main set, and is barely OO imo.
Leftovers is probably worth a slash with Sitrus for the sets that run Detect.

I think I'm gonna try to tackle the slash-itis:

move 1: Will-o-Wisp
move 2: Quash
move 3: Feint / Taunt / Fake Out
move 4: Detect / Foul Play / Recover

I think QC agrees that Willo and Quash are too good to give up and are the reason you would use Sableye in the first place. Beyond that you get 2 more.

Taunt, Feint, and Fake Out are all ways to disrupt opponents. Feint breaks protects, which in combination with Quash can prove to be deadly mindgames. Taunt works well to prevent future protects, and is particularly nasty on switch-ins, as well as typical supportive mons like Amoonguss and Togekiss, as well as locking Aegislash into Blade-Forme by preventing KS. Fake Out is Fake Out; Sableye is hardly the best user of it, but it's still a great move and Sableye's own immunity to the move makes it a unique user for leading turn 1.

The last slot can go many ways. If you are running Taunt or Fake Out in slot 3, you will possibly want an attack in slot 4 so that you aren't completely useless after getting Taunted by a fast Prankster Taunt. Foul Play is the best option I think, but you should mention both Knock Off and Snarl in OO. If you're running Feint in slot 3, you are at least not totally useless after getting Taunted, as Feint is still a nifty move that still can break protects. You'll likely want to switch out anyway, but Feint at least means you won't have to struggle if you go with another support move. The two best options are Detect and Recover.

You can also probably get away with running 2 moves from slot 3 and none from slot 4 (though not the other way around).




P.S. I know speed creep is heavily discouraged (outlawed) in C&C, but it is maybe worth noting that if and only if you're running Taunt, it can be worth it to try to creep other Sableye. (don't hurt me totemo and dm)
 

SpaceBass

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Yeah the slashes were what I wasn't sure about. I've changed them to reflect the movesets you posted.
 

Darkmalice

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SpaceBass, slash Leftovers with Sitrus Berry, mention you can use it if using Detect.

At this stage I think the slashes are fine. There are so many variations you can have with the last two slots and they really come down to personal preference. I can argue move this move here in those two slots, or remove this move, but that'll just lead to arguments going around in circles.

I would still mention 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 SpD with Careful nature in set details as an alternate spread if one wants to take hits better from special attackers. Sableye commonly finds itself against one physical attacker and one special attacker at the time, and the physical attacker plays cautiously with Protect or switches out, leading to the special attacker dealing the damage.


I would also mention if using Foul Play, you can lower your Speed IV to 6 in order to become slower than Aegislash. This allows you to hit it with Foul Play after it switches to blade form to attack, securing a OHKO with Foul Play.

In Checks and Counters
  • mention Mega Mawile; the only physical attacker that can OHKO Sableye even when burnt (75% chance to OHKO)
  • have a tag **Special Attackers** - any special attacker that can 2HKO is a check. Sableye can't do any meaningful to them unless they are weak to Foul Play and can't Recover stall against them. Some like Hydriegon and Latios can OHKO with Draco Meteor. Slower special attackers like Rotom-W and Aegislash also do not mind Quash; however Aegislash must watch out for Foul Play.
 

Bughouse

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  • Bulky pokemon with unfortunate speed tiers such as Mega Venusaur, Gyarados and Mega Scizor benefit from Quash and Prankster Taunt
Eh, Scizor is just kinda bad and also doesn't benefit that much since it can BP a lot of things anyway.
The real partners for Quash are things like Mega Charizard or Mega Abomasnow. Mega Mawile probably works too though I haven't tried that.
 

Darkmalice

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Overview
-Mention almost zero offensive presence; does little outside of providing support. Make sure your teammates can effectively utilise this support.
-Can be dead weight against opponents that don't fear WoW or Quash
-Only average bulk

Set details
-184 SpD, not SpA
-With the alternate physical spread, mention 68 Def is to survive Bisharp's Knock Off in case WoW misses

Usage Tips
-You missed the overall description of Sableye's role. Its role is to disrupt the opponent, and in doing so, make it significantly harder for your opponent to deal with Sableye's partners.
-Quash takes a lot of pressure off your ally (you left ally blank). you mention it's to get KOs that wouldn't have been possible otherwise, but it is more correct to say that your ally can pull off moves that it wouldn't otherwise be able to do against a faster opponent. Your example illustrates a case when it isn't a KO anyways
---Before that example, I would mention for example having one of your slower Pokemon KO a faster Pokemon before it can KO the former.
-Move that point about Fake Out to Moves and combine it with what you've already describe about Fake Out
-Mention it works well as a lead for early-game disruption, but can also switch in latter using its immunities, in particular against Mega Kang

Team options
-remove that point about Sableye leading - that belongs in usage tips
-I like Mega Kang as an ally - Sableye can switch into and neuter Fighting-types who otherwise check Mega Kang like Terrakion. Meanwhile, Kang appreciates Quash support against faster opponents for quick KOs, and it makes good use of the burn support (helps set up PuP).

Checks & Counters
-mention Talonflame in typing advantage (Fire-type that also outspeeds Sableye thanks to Gale Wings so doesn't even care about Quash)
-With Safeguard users, mention they can be Taunted.
-add Quick Guard to utility (screws with moves boosted by Prankster) - Talonflame, Keldeo
-could also add a Miscellanous tag for Guts Conkeldurr (enjoys being burnt)

Update all this and I'll give you a check
 

Darkmalice

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Quash can be very effective as it effectively nullifies all forms of speed control in place, allowing you to get a KO that wouldn't have been possible otherwise, taking alot of pressure off your partner. It also helps while Trick Room is up, for example, Quashing an Amoonguss while Trick Room is up, and substituting with your partner to avoid a Spore
As I said before, you should say move instead of KO. Especially considering the example you gave is not a KO.

With Mega Kang, remove the last part about "or take advantage of Power up Punch." How you've worded it is incorrect-Quash does not help set up Power Up Punch
-How Sableye helps Kang set up PuP is by burn to weaken your opponent's offence against Kang. Quash then helps to let Kang KO a faster threat after using PuP i.e. with the boost


Let's get the ball rolling

QC 1/3
 

Electrolyte

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Some suggestions:

OVERVIEW:
- "Faces competition as a Prankster user from Thundurus-I and Whimsicott as they have a faster Taunt, but both of those mentioned have differing movepools to Sableye and neither can fulfil its role specifically. It is also threatened by these faster taunts as they can stop sableye from doing its job"

Instead of that just say that the unique combination of Prankster + WilloWisp + Quash allows Sableye to support its team in a way that no other Pokemon can even come close to doing... Thund and Whimsi serve drastically different purposes so comparing them just on the basis of Prankster is a bit misleading

- The typing is great for what it does, 3 immunities and 1 resistance with only 1 weakness to the fairly rare and quite easily covered Fairy-type


SET:
It seems like 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 SpDef+ is overall more worth it than 252 HP / 72 Def+ / 184 SpDef. There are quite a lot of significant threats avoided in the jump from 184 --> 188+, and most of the physical attackers you beat with 68 --> 72+ aren't used very frequently at all (regular Blaziken, Non mega Mawile, AV Escav, and Mega Pinsir, for example, lol)

srk asked for things you beat when making the jump so here goes:
THINGS THE SPDEF LEANING SPREAD GAINS:
always survives Heatran's Eruption (as opposed to surviving ~75% of the time factoring in spread)
always survives Timid LO Salamence's Draco Meteor (as opposed to surviving ~56% of the time)

Against:
LO Modest Shaymin-S's Seed Flare
LO Timid Hydreigon's Draco Meteor
LO Modest Goodra's Draco Meteor,

your chances of survival all rise by 50+% (from around 20-25% to 70-75%)

Also...

Always avoid the 2HKO from Mega Manectric's Thunderbolt
Avoid the 2HKO from Gengar's Shadow Ball 91% of the time

While still being able to always survive LO Bisharp's Knock Off!


And, being that you've got WoW at your disposal and therefore are less threatened by physical attackers, it would probably be a better idea to invest more in Special bulk. I think 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 SpDef Careful should be the main spread; then put 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 Impish in Set Details.

Finally:
[12:28] Stratos: i agree with an sdef spread tho


MOVES:
- Mention that Prankster ensures that Sableye moves first usually, so you can neuter physical attackers with WoW before they can attack - benefit over other WoW because most of them are slow (besides Talon)


SET DETAILS:
- Refer to above


USAGE TIPS:
- Mention that WoW is pretty safe to spam so long as there aren't any WoW immunes because even if u hit a SpAtker the residual damage still hurts. Just make sure you don't clash with any other status your team is trying to spread
- Say that players should be ready to switch out Sableye whenever necessary because staying in while you're useless will drain your momentum so fast


TEAM OPTIONS:
- Powerful spread attackers - you might want to mention because they can make up for Sableye's lack of offensive presence and most directly benefit from Quash / Taunt / Feint
- HEATRAN - good Fairy killer, Heat Wave spread, can even burn it for the Flash Fire boost. In similar lines, CHANDELURE too kind of
(mfw u already have it... but put the reasoning down will you)
- MEGA DIANCIE - can switch into and reflect taunts and other status, has powerful spread in Diamond Storm (which also beats Fire-types, which are WoW immune), loves WoW support because honestly it is kind of frail, and loves Quash support because faster glass cannons are threatening


OTHER OPTIONS:
- Nothing to add here, thank god not mentioning Swagger / Confuse Ray


CHECKS AND COUNTERS:
- Gud


Fix the sprite in ur sig, boy, this ain't no Mega Sableye analysis
 

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
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always survives Heatran's Eruption (as opposed to surviving ~75% of the time factoring in spread)
always survives Timid LO Salamence's Draco Meteor (as opposed to surviving ~56% of the time)

Against:
LO Modest Shaymin-S's Seed Flare
LO Timid Hydreigon's Draco Meteor
LO Modest Goodra's Draco Meteor,

your chances of survival all rise by 50+% (from around 20-25% to 70-75%)

Also...

Always avoid the 2HKO from Mega Manectric's Thunderbolt
Avoid the 2HKO from Gengar's Shadow Ball 91% of the time

While still being able to always survive LO Bisharp's Knock Off!
I can't support this when the examples you give are bad. Hydreigon is Modest, not Timid. Skymin is Timid not Modest. Goodra is rare and isn't even guaranteed to use LO (mostly I've seen AV). Eruptran is incredibly rare (and arguably just bad) now that Mega Camel is a thing. I'm not particularly concerned about something like a 2hko from Gengar either when Sableye has Quash and Gengar is frail.

Your passable examples therefore boil down to Mega Manectric (and btw the more phys defensive spread still doesn't get 2hkoed by 85.5% of the time) and Salamence, which is relevant, I'll give you that one.

But the problem is that these are pretty negligibly important benchmarks for Sableye. The spread I gave will live Char-Y's Heat Wave, Ludi's Hydro in Rain, and Keldeo's LO Hydro. Those are great benchmarks to hit bc they're super common. Anything beyond that for a few lesser used threats is far less useful overall than beefing up Sableye's physical defense when it is overwhelmingly meant to be used as a check to physical mons.

Meanwhile, since you're throwing out random calcs, how about something like this:
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 72+ Def Sableye: 246-291 (80.9 - 95.7%)
vs
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 68 Def Sableye: 271-321 (89.1 - 105.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 72+ Def Sableye: 283-334 (93 - 109.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
vs
252+ Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 68 Def Sableye: 313-369 (102.9 - 121.3%)
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
let's look at the arguments laid out by each of the above posters.

Electrolyte's spread lives Eruptran (Exists! but extremely rare, and if you quash it + do literally any damage, irrelevant), timid lo mence (exists! but very rare), LO Modest Skymin (doesn't exist), Timid Hydra (doesn't exist), Goodra (doesn't exist), Mega Manectric (doesn't exist), and normal gengar (exists! but rare). Srk's spread lives Adamant Mega Meta Meteor Mash (doesn't exist, and why didn't you burn it), and adamant victini v-create less than half the time (exists! but rare, and you only live it half the time so ??? good argument???).

so verdict: you guys suck at choosing relevant calcs and should both hang yourselves

Overall though I agree with an sdef spread for Sableye because nobody in their right mind is going to leave in a physical attacker that isnt named Talonflame, Victini, or Diancie in on a priority will-o-wisp, so sab ends up taking mostly special hits (unless theres redirection present but now we're going deep down the rabbit hole). but the calcs provided by the above users gave me cancer like i cant describe, so idk what youd ev to live. maybe like, talonflame bb and aegis shadow ball
 

Darkmalice

Level 3
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I prefer a special spread too. Pretty much what Stratos said and what I said before. Sableye has to take hits from special attackers to do stuff cause physical attackers will hide and switch out or Protect.

I like 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 SpD for the reasons so it still survives Bisharp's Knock Off in case of a WoW miss. And by extension Jolly MegaGross' Meteor Mash in case of a miss or you mispredict a Zen Headbutt instead of Meteor Mash for a switch-in.

The other spread I'd like is 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD. It's a mixed spread. It's more about being safe than being logical and handling common threats - the Def is to survive Adamant CB Talonflame BB. CB Talonflame isn't that common (about 20% on 1825 ladder, seen less in tourney play); but it's more about safeguarding yourself against it cause if Talonflame can OHKO, Sableye can't even move. I would prefer the 68 Def spread though.


Btw the physical spread has a chance to be OHKOed by Timid LO Skymin's Seed Flare (relevant).
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin-S Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 184 SpD Sableye: 269-317 (88.4 - 104.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

Meanwhile
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin-S Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 188+ SpD Sableye: 243-289 (79.9 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin-S Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Sableye: 259-305 (85.1 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO


tl;dr 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 SpD, Careful
 

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