I don't know, but I'd say if you wanna run Dazzling Gleam, you'd be better pairing it with Shadow Ball. I do think it's important to hit fairies with at least neutral. Maybe it really doesn't matter and you just lose to them, but till we get the actual stats of Mega Sableye and can do proper calcs, I'd say not to forget about Shadow Ball. I do think, however, if you wanna run Power Gem, Dark Pulse should be favored.
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Pokémon Sableye
- Thread starter farranpoison
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Poor Sableye seems to be so good that it now has a 4MSS and it must choose between 4 of taunt, will-o-wisp, recover, calm mind, mean look, dazzling gleam, Shadow Ball, dark pulse and power gem lol
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I don't think it's that big of a problem. Honestly I wouldn't run mega instead of normal for a support one, just for how vital is Prankster.
The thing is, thanks to magic bounce you don't really need taunt. And you only really need two attacks to do some damage if you plan on going that route. The problem lies in will-o vs Recover.
Taunt would prevent Special Attackers from coming in and setting up on you while Recover is mandatory because you don't have Lefties.
Considering there's nothing immune to Sableye's Dark STAB, he might be able to pull off a Mono-Attacking set.
Assuming a set of
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpA (With a proposed stat change to 50/75/135/105/85/30 I've seen from some others)
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Dark Pulse/Shadow Ball
- Recover
- Will-o-Wisp/Dazzling Gleam
What Special Attackers will give him the most trouble with either that two move coverage or trying to wear a Boosted Sableye down through Recover and their own burn damage?
Taunt certainly seems useful, but I feel like it's a lot less useful/required compared to normal Sableye.
Fairies, especially Clefable (who can set up on you). Resist Dark Pulse and hit you back super effectively.
Fair enough, though if Clefable comes in, would Sableye really stay in himself? Base Sableye is slower, so even with Taunt, the Mega grants it at least one CM without Prankster. If it's Unaware, it doesn't even need to boost itself.
(Calcs made with previous stat spread)
4 SpA Unaware Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sableye: 224-266 (73.6 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Sableye Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Unaware Clefable: 49-58 (12.4 - 14.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Magic Guard (Assuming switched in on Sableye's first boost)
4 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Sableye: 152-180 (50 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Sableye: 114-134 (37.5 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 4 SpA Sableye Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Clefable: 74-87 (18.7 - 22%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
Without Leftovers and/or Prankster, Sableye will never survive 2 hits from even unbolted Clefable, and even if it gets a second boost in, it would have no time to do anything with it.
I certainly understand what you mean about Taunt's utility to Mega Sableye, but Clefable might be a poor example, since it'd counter Mega Sableye even without boosting alongside it.
The point is that Clefable gets a free CM from you (and potential sleep immunity if it's Magic Guard).
I also just realized that losing Prankster means that physical attackers can actually check you (or cripple you) since they'll go before you do. For example, Azumarill can come in and more than likely one-shot you with a Banded Play Rough or get a free turn to Belly Drum as you switch out.
The thing with Sableye is it can always choose when to mega evolve and so it can spend the early game spreading burns and prankster recovering, and then the later part of the match sweeping with CM
Faries counter Sableye hard. If that's your point then congrats on pointing out the obvious, but quite frankly every pokemon has counters. That's like saying Unaware Clefable counters Dragonite. It's true, but what exactly are you trying to prove? If there was a way to make Sableye not be countered by Fairies then you would have a point, but as of now every Sableye set is hard-countered by every Fairy-type in the game. Yes, even Azumarill:
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power burned Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Sableye: 339-399 (111.5 - 131.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Literally the best thing Sableye has to hit Fairies is Poison Jab from a base 75 Atk (lol) which doesn't have a place on any competitive set. This is why mono-attacking sets like the Sableye set I posted on page 8, or things like Crocune for that matter have teammates to take out the counters that stop them from sweeping. It's not like Sableye is useless before attempting a sweep either, checking nearly every physical attacker with priority Will-o-Wisp, then it can sweep late game as user dinotrek27 pointed out.
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I wouldn't really leave Sableye to face Azumarill anyway. Even a burned play rough still hits TOO hard after burn.
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power burned Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Sableye: 255-300 (83.8 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I guess mega won't last long either, especially since azumarill moves first before you can burn it.
If you're using a Keen Eye or Stall Sableye maybe. Don't forget that turn of Prankster when you activate the stone.
The point is nobody is sending in a physical attacker against you until you've MEvo'd.
And even then you can't just simply switch in, Sableye might still have it (weird, but possible).
You're ignoring the calc I placed.
Even when burned, Azumarill still kicks regular sableye ass.
Personally, I'm interested to see how well Metal Burst works on Megalye. Obviously it's always been a pretty situational move, but there's something satisfying about OHKOing a Greninja after it tries to Hydro Pump you on turn one. With buffed defences perhaps it will become even less situational. I can also see it having great synergy with Magic Bounce. Opinions?
In all honesty Mega Sableye seems like a step backwards in terms of abilities. Before mega evolving Sableye has a combination of priority taunt, recover and WoW, assisted by stab foul play. In generation V Sableye had a flawless combination of movepool,type and ability. Its only flaw was its defensive stats which themselves could only be solved by an evolution (and even if the evolution branched away from what Sableye did in gen V there was still eviolite Sableye if it did evolve).
Megaleye's only real advantage is higher defense, but Sableye really wanted higher special def since it has (or really had) priority burn. Priority taunt already keeps locked down what magic bounce does, the only caveat (and I admit it is a significant one) is that you can't stop status moves directed at your side on the switch like magic bounce can. You lose out on leftovers recovery, priority burn, priority recover, and taunt becomes slightly redundant. The only real advantage Megaleye has over regular Sableye is sheer defensive stats, which still aren't entirely impressive due to mega evolution's mechanics leaving his abysmal 50 hp unchanged and depriving him of leftovers. A lack of priority burn ironically leaves you more susceptible to physical hits, and a lack of priority recover makes you far easier to 2HKO.
Put simply, Mega Sableye is looking to be a more defensively inclined Espeon that still can't take a lot of punishment, rather than the massive annoyance it was last gen but doubly so.
Megaleye's only real advantage is higher defense, but Sableye really wanted higher special def since it has (or really had) priority burn. Priority taunt already keeps locked down what magic bounce does, the only caveat (and I admit it is a significant one) is that you can't stop status moves directed at your side on the switch like magic bounce can. You lose out on leftovers recovery, priority burn, priority recover, and taunt becomes slightly redundant. The only real advantage Megaleye has over regular Sableye is sheer defensive stats, which still aren't entirely impressive due to mega evolution's mechanics leaving his abysmal 50 hp unchanged and depriving him of leftovers. A lack of priority burn ironically leaves you more susceptible to physical hits, and a lack of priority recover makes you far easier to 2HKO.
Put simply, Mega Sableye is looking to be a more defensively inclined Espeon that still can't take a lot of punishment, rather than the massive annoyance it was last gen but doubly so.
Maybe they'll give Mega Banette recover and we'll have what is pretty much a mega version of normal sableye. Won't have stab foul play, but who needs that with 165 attack lol.
Trick room sets you on a timer...so in deal circumstances you get 3 turns to use it, one of prankster mevo, one settibng up and prolly other one recovering....and then its over...Trick room is better for offense rigth off the bat.
I'm seeing mSableye leaning more towards a "CroBleye(?)" (best set namer ever btw). If not a pretty good full Stall mon.
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