1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Sableye

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Move_Zero, Sep 23, 2010.

  1. Move_Zero

    Move_Zero

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2008
    Messages:
    28
    [​IMG]
    Sableye
    Type: Ghost/Dark​

    Stats:​

    HP:50
    Atk:75
    Def:75
    SpAtk:65
    SpDef:65
    Spd:50​

    Traits:

    Keen Eye: Prevents accuracy loss/Decreases wild Pokemon encounter rate.

    Stall: Makes Sableye go last.​

    Mischievious Heart (Dream World): Non-Attacking moves gain +1 priority.




    Level-Up Moves (open)

    Lv1:Leer
    Lv1:Scratch
    Lv4:Forsight
    Lv8:Night Shade
    Lv11:Astonish
    Lv15:Fury Swipes
    Lv18:Fake Out
    Lv22:Detect
    Lv25:Shadow Sneak
    Lv29:Knock Off
    Lv32:Faint Attack
    Lv36:Punishment
    Lv39:Shadow Claw
    Lv43:Power Gem
    Lv46:Confuse Ray
    Lv50:Trickery-[Physical][95 BP][100 Acc][15 PP]Uses opponent's strength against them; the higher the opponent's Attack stat, the more damage this move deals.
    Lv53:Zen Headbutt
    Lv57:Shadow Ball
    Lv60:Mean Look


    TMs/HMs (open)

    TM01:Claw Sharpen-[Support][15 PP]Raises user's Attack and Accuracy.
    TM04:Calm Mind
    TM06:Toxic
    TM10:Hidden Power
    TM11:Sunny Day
    TM12:Taunt
    TM17:Protect
    TM18:Rain Dance
    TM19:Telekinesis-[Support][15 PP] Makes Target easier to hit for 3 turns.
    TM21:Frustration
    TM27:Return
    TM28:Dig
    TM29:Psychic
    TM30:Shadow Ball
    TM31:Brick Break
    TM32:Double Team
    TM39:Rock Tomb
    TM40:Aerial Ace
    TM41:Torment
    TM42:Facade
    TM44:Rest
    TM45:Attract
    TM46:Thief
    TM47:Ankle Sweep-[Physical][60 BP][100 Acc][20 PP]Damages opponent and lowers Speed by 1.
    TM48:Sing-A-Round-[Special][60 BP][100 Acc][15 PP]It attacks the opponent with song. If everyone sings together, you can use the move in succession and increase its power.
    TM56:Fling
    TM59:Incinerate-[Special][30 BP][100 Acc][15 PP]Destroys opponent's berry.
    TM61:Will-O-Wisp
    TM63:Embargo
    TM65:Shadow Claw
    TM66:Payback
    TM67:Vengeance-[Physical][70 BP][100 Acc][5 PP]It takes revenge for a fainted teammate. If a teammate fainted the turn before, this move's power increases.
    TM70:Flash
    TM77:Psych Up
    TM84:Poison Jab
    TM85:Dream Eater
    TM87:Swagger
    TM90:Substitute
    TM94:Rock Smash
    TM95:Bark Out-[Special][55 BP][95 Acc][15 PP]Causes damage and may severly lower SpAtk.
    HM01:Cut


    egg moves (open)

    Recover
    Moonlight
    Nasty Plot
    Flatter
    Feint
    Sucker Punch
    Trick
    Captivate
    Mean Look
    Metal Burst


    Since its inception, Sableye has been the underdog of the Ghost types (only marginally better than Shedinja and NFE Ghosts), and its only saving grace--its Ghost/Dark typing--was stolen by Spiritomb in Gen IV. WIth Gen V, however, the Darkness Pokemon finally has something to differentiate itself from the rest of the ghosts, in the form of its new Dream World ability, Mischievious Heart!

    This new ability gives priority to support moves like Will-O-Wisp and Substitute. Combine this with the fact that Sableye is the only Ghost type to recieve this ability, and the fact that it resists 5 popular priority moves (Fake Out, Extremespeed, Quick Attack, Mach Punch, and Vacuum Wave), and you have yourself one monster of a problem. Granted, its movepool hasn't really changed, and despite the kick-assity of its new ability, Sableye just doesn't have the stats to abuse them, and will most likely be standing pretty in the NU/UU tier as it did in the last Generation.

    Movesets:

    Prioriteyes(lol):
    Sableye @ Leftovers
    Careful (+SpDef, -SpAtk)
    Mischievious Heart
    252 HP, 120 Def, 136 SpDef
    ~Will-O-Wisp
    ~Recover/Fake Out
    ~Taunt/Toxic
    ~Night Shade/Shadow Claw/Knock Off

    This set abuses Mischievious Heart to the fullest extent, with Priority for Will-O-Wisp, Recover (provided that you can breed Dream World abilities, otherwise use Fake Out for free damage), and Taunt/Toxic for Fire-types/defensive Pokes that are immune to/not bothered by Will-O-Wisp and/or want to set up on you. Night Shade or Shadow Claw provide offense in case you're taunted (Seismic Toss, unfortunantely, is no longer viable, as its a Gen III/IV Move Tutor move). Knock Off can also be used for further support, getting rid of an important item like Swimming Goggles or a Choice Item on the switch.

    Those Lying Eyes:
    Sableye @ Iron Ball/Lagging Tail/etc
    Careful (+SpDef, -SpAtk)
    Mischievious Heart
    252 HP, 120 Def, 136 SpDef
    ~Will-O-Wisp/Toxic/Taunt
    ~Trick
    ~Recover/Rest
    ~Shadow Claw/Night Shade/Sucker Punch

    This set also takes advantage of the Mischievious Heart priority by bypassing the speed drop of items such as Iron Ball and Lagging Tail. Swich in on a immune hit and Trick away your item, potentially screwing up your opponent's sweep and/or wall. Will-O-Wisp or Toxic will further cripple your opponent, Recover for healing (or rest, depending on whether you can breed Dream World abilities), and Shadow Claw/Night Shade/Sucker Punch for damage output.

    An alternate set, suggested by The King of Harts, would be 252 HP, 4 Atk, 252 SpDef with the Aiming Mark item. With this, Sableye can switch into threats like Gengar and Skarmory, survive with roughly half its health, and use a priority Trick to take away their natural immunities. BE CAREFUL when you use this set, however, as Aiming Mark takes away YOUR OWN immunities, which are important to Sableye as its stats are too terrible to survive more than 1 attack.

    Tricky Dick (originally suggested by howabe):
    Sableye @ Focus Sash
    Impish (+Def, -SpA)
    Mischievous Heart
    252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpD
    ~Taunt
    ~Will-o-Wisp/Toxic
    ~Trickery
    ~Shadow Sneak/Fake Out/Protect

    This set utilizes Sableye's sole, new level-up move, Trickery; it also functions well as an anit-lead. Lead with Taunt to prevent the opponent from setting up, WoW or Toxic, depending on who you're facing, Trickery for physical attackers (I'm not sure if Trickery accounts for stat boosts like Choice Band or Swords Dance, though), and your choice of Shadow Sneak for finishing off weakened opponents, Fake Out for free damage, and protect for an extra turn of Poison/Burn damage.

    Sableye the Tormentor(suggested by Instynct):
    Sableye@leftovers
    Careful
    252Hp/124def/136spdef
    Mischevious Heart
    -Torment
    -Substitute
    -Protect/Recover
    -Will-o-Wisp/taunt/toxic

    Basically come in on Gengar etc. use a priorty sub or protect to lure a shadow ball etc. if it hasn't already used it then use priorty torment to make sableye practically untouchable. Furthermore priorty subs mean the opponent can't outpredict sableye and not use the damaging move when they can as sableye has , in essence, two protects (although one results in loss of HP).

    On top of this sableye can come in after any choice user has ko'd a pokemon and set up a priorty sub in case it switches and if it doesn't use torment and sub on the switch. It looks to me like a pretty good annoyer at least in UU with support from entry hazards (especially as it can't be spun against) as this is going to be causing a lot of switches if it comes off right.

    Recover can be used over protect to create a sort of sub roost set although protect is preferred here due to sableye's poor stats and the health it is losing from it's subs meaning it may be too low to take a hit and recover. Leftovers is obvious with torment and protect etc. Taunt is used for substitute set uppers whereas WoW is probably better as it can stop pretty much any other set upper and also provides sableye with some residual damage to work with as it is stalling. Toxic can be used for better stalling but usually WoW is better due to it's ability to stop physical attackers cold.

    Emphasis on sp.def is because of the psychics and ghosts which sablyeye probably has the most chance to come in on and set up on, also because with priorty WoW sableye is cutting any physical attack by half before it can even hit him.

    Spin(cock)Blocker(Suggested by adventureguy):
    Sableye @ Leftovers
    Careful Nature
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SDef
    ~ Recover
    ~ Will-O-Wisp
    ~ Knock-Off
    ~ Taunt

    This set shuts down a ton of stuff. It's also a great spikes blocker. I highly recommend trying it. It doesn't have to rely on trick and can just mash knock off forever. It rips apart stall teams like nothing, shuts down physical threats, and makes an incredible asset to stall teams with its status and item removal. Wish support also lets it switch into anything, essentially negating its poor physical defense and letting it throw out a burn for free.

    And, so, that's the end. Let me know if you guys can make a better set, as I'm not the best analyst :P
  2. howabe

    howabe

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2010
    Messages:
    79
    I think the new move Trickery would be his best attacking option. I don't know if we have its exact mechanics down yet, but if it allows him to attack using an opponents Attack stat, it's likely to cause the most damage against anything physically based.

    I think he could make an OK anti-lead in a lower tier, maybe with something along the lines of:

    Sableye
    @ Focus Sash
    Impish (+Def, -SpA)
    Mischievous Heart
    252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpD
    - Taunt
    - Will-o-Wisp/Toxic
    - Trickery
    - Shadow Sneak/Fake Out/Detect

    Taunt is obvious... Get it up first with Mischievous Heart to stop setup.
    Will-o-Wisp/Toxic depends on preference for crippling a physical attacker or higher damage output. The EVs and nature are titled towards Will-o-Wisp, boosting Def to work in tandem with a burned opponent with Atk lowered. Focus Sash allows Sableye to at least take one special attack...
    Trickery is for standard attacking.
    Fake Out can break a Sash, Shadow Sneak finish off something that uses Sash or Sturdy. Detect allow an extra turn of poison/burn damage. Your choice.


    He's obviously not going to tear up the higher tiers, but he's definitely got a few decent improvements.
  3. Acklow

    Acklow

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    3,605
    Hrm...You can't forget Fake Out!

    Sableye @ Leftorvers
    Careful
    Mischievious Heart
    252 HP, 120 Def, 136 SpDef
    -Fake Out
    -Will-o-Wisp/Toxic
    -Taunt/Substitute
    -Night Shade

    Same Set as Prioriteyes, but uses Fake Out instead of Recover, just in case the Dream World abilities are non-breedable.
  4. iruchii

    iruchii

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    Messages:
    674
    Why wouldn't they when Stun Spore does?
  5. Pit[y]Lord

    Pit[y]Lord

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Messages:
    27
    I really like the Iron Ball/Lagging Tail trick set. Makes for a potent anti sweep tactic while potentialy giving you a good item or a choice item to trick onto another target. I think Iron Ball is the better one to use from the 2, mostly cause it can screw both walls like Bronzong and Skarmory and offensive flying types or levitators like Salamence or Gengar.
  6. Green Mage

    Green Mage

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2008
    Messages:
    567
    There is some mischiveous heart confusion at the moment. First of all, some people are saying that status moves aren't given priority by mischievous heart, while others say that it does, so noone knows for sure. Another thing is that mischievous heart is given in the dream world, and noone knows if dream world abilities can be passed on through breeding or not, which means dream world abilities might not be compatible with egg moves (ie sableye's recover).
  7. Shimrit As

    Shimrit As

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2009
    Messages:
    270
    Prioriteyes haha! Mischievious Heart is cool but I agree, its stats really let it down. It can Trick a choice item/status orb if it needs to halt an emergency sweep but it's going to get mauled immediately after that. Can't think of any reason to use this as a spinblocker in regular play either. If I haven't misconstrued the effects of Torment, it can screw up mono-attackers by activating Torment before it can get a hit in, which is one possible use for this.

    EDIT: nvm, apparently false.
  8. conway

    conway

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2010
    Messages:
    117
    You know, with focus sash and and thanks to his immunity against fake out, he could run a lead set with metal burst.
  9. Rykard

    Rykard

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
    Messages:
    86
    could you combine swagger with trickery? i feel like that would give it a ridiculous combination despite it being somewhat gimmicky
  10. Move_Zero

    Move_Zero

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2008
    Messages:
    28
    Why would Sableye use Detect if it learns Protect through TM?

    Also, I really hope WoW and Toxic get priority because Sableye's essentially a TauntBot without it :( Thanks to all of you who've posted new sets--I'll be sure to update Sableye's page as soon as possible!
  11. iruchii

    iruchii

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    Messages:
    674
    Toxic does get priority. I tested it less than an hour ago.

    I don't see why WoW wouldn't.
  12. JGSabino

    JGSabino

    Joined:
    May 19, 2010
    Messages:
    145
    Sableye
    @ Focus Sash
    Careful (+SpD, -SpA)
    Mischievous Heart
    252 HP, 4 Def, 252 SpD
    - Taunt
    - Will-o-Wisp
    - Night Shade
    - Fake Out

    So much epic win... This thing is crying for Destiny Bond :(.
  13. Mew

    Mew

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2010
    Messages:
    488
    Does Substitute get priority? If so, an ultimate will-o-wisp/toxic/protect/substitute set could kick-ass.
  14. The King of Harts

    The King of Harts

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    424
    I didn't realize Sableye got trick. How about taking your Trick idea and combine it with Aiming Mark? Something like this:

    Sabelye @Aiming Mark
    Sassy
    HP 252 / ATK 4 / SPDEF 252
    -Trick
    -Taunt
    -Sucker Punch
    -Night Shade/(filler)

    You switch into Gengar (or any Ghost, really), eat the Shadow Ball (52.6% - 62.5% Timid with Life Orb) and then Trick him the Aiming Mark. That gets rid of ALL of Gengar's immunities. No more spin blocking, Dynamic Punch taking, or Earthquake avoiding for him. Then you can OHKO him with Sucker Punch if he decides to stay in. Worst case scenario is that he switches out and you trick Aiming Mark on to something else, but is that really so bad? Besides, you can always Trick it back if you want.

    Also, if you were to, say, Trick Skarmory, you get rid of his Poison and Ground immunities and get his Leftovers/Shed Shell, which makes trapping a lot easier. Getting rid of immunities and stealing Items gives Sableye a real niche.

    I can't belive I'm about to say this, but Sableye has a lot of...potential.
  15. Move_Zero

    Move_Zero

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2008
    Messages:
    28
    An interesting idea, but we're still not sure yet if Aiming mark gets rid of Abilities, too. I'll add Aiming Mark to the Trick list :)

    This could be a viable set, but you'd have to replace Toxic with Taunt, or else Sableye's gonna be walled by anything with Taunt.
  16. The King of Harts

    The King of Harts

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    424
    Iruchii tested it in the Research Thread and concluded that Levitate isn't affected by Aiming Mark, so it's safe to assume other abilities aren't either. However, that doesn't take away from it's effectiveness, especially since only a handful of Pokemon actually learn Trick and the only other Ghost that does is Banette, but he's not a used too often. So once you trick a Ghost with Aiming Mark, you can Rapid Spin away without fear of being re-tricked.
  17. IcyyDreams

    IcyyDreams

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Messages:
    44
    I like this set with Sableye
    Sableye@LifeOrb
    Impish/Adamant
    252 HP 200 Attack 56 Defense
    Stall
    -Will-o-wisp
    -Payback
    -Recover
    -Shadow Sneak

    This works around going last :D stab payback after being hit has 150 BP and will-o-wisp helps by lowering damage then you can recover it off when you get too low. Bullet Punch from Adamant Choice Banded Scizor does around 60 damage.
  18. howabe

    howabe

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2010
    Messages:
    79
    I could be being stupid here... but is there a difference?
  19. ZephyrNightstorm

    ZephyrNightstorm

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2010
    Messages:
    10
    Problem is that it isn't confirmed that dream world abilities are breedable, ( or is it?)
    So that would mean that he cannot recover without rest.
    I love the idea to use mean look on something and then outstall it, I doubt substitute will work for it, it gives sableye a nice niche above other ghosts, but I doubt it will reach OU or BL...
    Though I always liked Sableye ^^
  20. reaverz

    reaverz

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2007
    Messages:
    307
    Unless something's changed, then Protect has 10 PP to Detect's 5.

    In the Research Thread it was confirmed that Dream World abilities are breedable.
  21. ZephyrNightstorm

    ZephyrNightstorm

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2010
    Messages:
    10
    Then it's official :) Sableye is on my team ;)
  22. Sphyxius

    Sphyxius

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2007
    Messages:
    147
    It probably only gives priority to status moves that don't actually cause damage in any way directly or passively, which would explain why Toxic and WoW don't get it but stun spore does (burn and poison cause damage, paralysis doesn't, thus the former two equate to "attacking" moves).

    I could be wrong but that makes the most sense to me.
  23. sensible

    sensible

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Messages:
    188
    In the research thread it says Dream World Abilities are in fact breedable. This makes me happy. The only problem I ever had with Sabeleye was its speed. Now it can really be an alright competitor in UU and annoy the shit out of everything with Knock off and Recover.
  24. ZephyrNightstorm

    ZephyrNightstorm

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2010
    Messages:
    10
    I believe toxic was tested in the research tread and it went first, so toxic and WoW will get +1 priority since they do not have a base power...
  25. Move_Zero

    Move_Zero

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2008
    Messages:
    28
    Protect has 10 PP while Detect has 5 :P

    This set wouldn't be viable because of Sableye's low stats. Combining it with LO damage, and its life on the battlefield will be a short one indeed. Sableye's better off being a Trick Pokemon :)

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)