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Sail Away On Teary Seas (BW2 OU)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Cerulean21, Jul 17, 2012.

  1. Cerulean21


    Jan 22, 2008



    Sail Away On Teary Seas


    With proper support, SubCM Jirachi is an absolute beast in the current metagame and that's how I started out when making this team. The advent of B2W2 brought some new tweaks to Generation V OU, among them the Therian formes and Keldeo. Rain was everywhere and with it, many of Jirachi's prime counters, such as Heatran and Tyranitar became less common, making a sweep even easier.
    The team has brought me a solid win rate on PS, still having some weaknesses, which is why I put it up for rating. Have fun reading and thanks a lot in advance for any suggestions.

    I changed the team around considerably, which is why I revive the thread (according to the rules). The changes I made are outlined in this colour.

    Team Building Process (open)

    I knew I wanted to build a team around SubCM Jirachi, that's where I started out on. I wanted to try the Sub/CM/Water Pulse/Thunder set, as I thought the idea of Parafusion seemed nice, and Water Pulse would also help against some of CMrachis main adversaries like Heatran, Magnezone and Tyranitar.

    This set obviously requires Drizzle support, so Politoed was an obvious pick. It powers up Water Pulse, makes Thunder 100% accurate and removes Jirachi's Fire weakness. I went for the 'Physically Defencive' set with Scald/Toxic/Perish Song/Protect as this has been proven useful in the past.

    Next, I thought of the Pokemon who could trouble Jirachi the most. The first thought that came to mind were Gastrodon, Blissey and Chansey. The former is completely immune to any of Jirachi's moves thanks to Storm Drain while the latter two can tank hits with their massive Special Defense. One way pretty secure way to beat them are Toxic Spikes. I decided to go for Tentacruel (Scald/Toxic Spikes/Rapid Spin/Protect), which would benefit greatly from permanent Rain thanks to Rain Dish and is arguably the best Toxic Spiker in OU. I wanted to be sure to have a plan B for killing Gastrodon and needed a Electric resist, preferably one that could also set up Stealth Rock: Celebi, a staple on many of my teams. It also forms a great defencive core with Taddle, so that seemed pretty solid.

    Next I wanted a physical set up sweeper. I also went for an old favourite and added Dragonite, who also has great synergy with Jirachi, resisting each other's weaknesses. The moveset was a bit tricky as Fire Punch would be weakened by rain and Earthquake would leave me horribly walled by the likes of Skarmory and Bronzong, so I went with Waterfall for the time being.

    Next, I needed an Electric immunity to balnce things out a bit and went for Toxic Stall Gliscor (Eartquake/Taunt/Substitute/Protect), who would also be useful in wearing down opposing walls. The team seemed alright thus far, so I went into the testing phase.

    What came out of the first few battles were the first changes to the metagame since the release of B2W2. Terrakion, Cunkeldurr and associated Fighting types became less common (at least I didn't run into many of them), making Gliscor less of a necessity. Furthermore, many Physical attackers such as Tyranitar and Landorus now run Ice attacks for Gliscor and the various Dragon types. It also seemed that the team was leaning a tad to heavy to the defencive side, so I decided to forego Gliscor...

    ...and added Thundurus-T. While the Genie is still weak to Ice attacks, it doesn't have that crippling 4x weakness, is considerably faster and boosts amazing offencive prowess. Having more Electric attacks for opposing Rain teams was a nice benefit. However, with Gliscor gone, I had even more issues with Physical Dragon types and physical sweepers in general, so I replaced Tentacruel with Forretress, which can also run both Rapid Spin and Toxic Spikes. I went for Stealth Rock/Toxic Spikes/Rapid Spin/Volt Switch, which freed a spot for Perish Song on Celebi and let me run Ice Beam on Politoed.


    I still noticed some issues with certain types of stall. Since Celebi has trouble in rain (as it weakens HP [Fire] and while HP [Ice] is extremely useful against Dragon types, it is horribly walled by the likes of Skarmory and Scizor), and after looking far an wide, I tried Stallbreaker Mew over Celebi.


    Thundurus-T didn't perform quite as well as I thought, so I replaced it. I wanted an Electric immunity and immediately looked towards Mamoswine. Thanks to Thick Fat, Mamo now resists the BoltBeam combo and gains a resistance to Fire in rain. Now that Amoongus and Tentacruel are everywhere, Toxic Spikes are not as useful as they were, and since Mamo can run Stealth Rock, there wasn't much reason to keep Forretress, especially since this team lacked oomph, somewhat. I thus added Starmie to the mix, which works great against opposing rain teams.


    After playing the team for a while I still noticed some weaknesses to Rotom-W, Ferrothorn and - to a lesser extend - Gastrodon. Going through the strategy dex, I stumbled upon Breloom, particularly its Bulk Up set, which would allow it to set up on the likes of Ferrothorn and Rotom-W, as well as scaring Gastrodon with STAB Grass attack. I replaced Mew for it, though that was the hardest change I had to make.

    The Team

    Dragonite @ Lum Berry
    Adamant | 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spe
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - Fire Punch
    - Roost

    Dragonite has always been a favourite of mine. And thanks to Multiscale, he can finally shine. His gargantuan attack, coupled with Dragon Dance and useable bulk makes it quite a ferocious sweeper. The EVs are pretty standard as well. 252 Attack with Adamant to hit as hard as possible, 200 Speed to outspeed max Speed Tyranitar as well as bulky Celebi, Jirachi, Mew, etc, who all aim to outspeed TTar as well. The rest is dumped into HP.
    My physical sweeper. Dragonite has some nice synergy with Jirachi, completely resisting each other's weaknesses. He also adds a nice and useful ground resistance to the team. Sadly, it's getting harder and harder for 'nite to set up.Outrage is the main STAB attack. Outrage wields amazing power, at least 2HKOing every non-steel type after a DD (and SR damage in case of 252/244 Impish Hippowdon who takes 50.7% min.). The danger of being locked into Outrage before all steel types are eliminated is high, but the power drop with Dragon Claw is too high to pass up.
    Fire Punch offers great coverage alongside Outrage and is there for the sake of hurting Steel types (read: Ferrothorn). Due to rain, Fire Punch is weakened, but I usally lead with Dragonite anyway, making it less of an issue. Lastly, Roost is there as with Lum Berry, Multiscale will be broken by Sand and Hail damage, making it even more important. General recovery move that helps when setting up. I do consider trying Waterfall or Earthquake over Roost though.

    Politoed @ Leftovers
    Bold | 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    - Scald
    - Perish Song
    - Toxic
    - Protect

    Good old Politoed. It's rather bulky (if only it got a reliable recovery move) and thanks to Scald's nifty burn rate, it can take physical hits even better. Max Defence means it can take on a number of pysical attackers.
    Scald is one of the greatest additions of GenV, at least for bulky water types. It's burn rate comes in pretty handy, especially when they think they can safely switch in Salamence, Haxorus and the like. It's power is further boosted by Drizzle which lets me hurt things like Forretress, Skarmory and Metagross for more damage. Perish Song, on the other hand, has been one of the most useful moves of the entire team, ensuring I'm not set up on by various last Pokemon set-uppers and also works nice as a kind of PHazing move. Politoed's weakness to Electric hurts it a bit as it's not that easy walling SubCM Jirachi (Celebi is much better in that respect). Still, a nice move to have around.Toxic was kind of a given. It helps wearing down opposing water types and walls in general, while Protect has many uses. It eases prediction (especially from Trick), scouts and racks up Leftover healing. It also works rather nicely in conjunction with Toxic, racking up yet another turn of damage, and uses up one turn of the Perish count.
    Drizzle, Drizzle, Drizzle. While most members of this team function well without the permanent rain, all of them appreciate it. Jirachi depends on it as it makes Thunder 100% accurate and boosts Water Pulse. Same goes for Thundurus-T. Mew likes Leftover recovery, while Forry appreciates the weakening of Fire attacks. Politoed is also a nice switch in to opposing water types (though Scald burns are annoying) and draws Electric attacks which heal Thundurus-T and Grass attacks which basically mean a free switch in for most of my team. Irreplaceable.

    Mamoswine @ Choice Scarf
    Thick Fat
    Jolly | 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    - Icicle Spear
    - Earthquake
    - Superpower
    - Stealth Rock

    Mainly revenge killer for those various Dragon and Flying types running rampant in OU. While Ice and Ground are great types offensively, they can be walled easily while choiced, meaning Mamo can't really act as a late game sweeper. He forces switches though, giving him the opportunity to set up Stealth Rock. EVs are pretty straight forward. 252 in Attack to maximize damage output, with max speed to outspeed the likes of +1 Adamant Dragonite.
    Icicle Spear is the reason why Mamoswine is such a great revenge killer. Thanks to hitting multiple times, it breaks Multiscale (murdering Dragonite), Focus Sashes and Substitutes. It's also a decent STAB attack, hitting for 75 base power on average. If it hits trice, it will OHKO offensive Latios and 252/184 Impish Gliscor after Stealth Rock. It also keeps the Terians from switching in freely. Earthquake is the second STAB attack and a pretty nice one too. It allows me to severely hurt (if not KO) many of those steel types rampant in OU, such as Jirachi, Heatran and Magnezone. Since there are many Pokemon immune to Ground in OU, it's use it with caution, however. Superpower, on the other hand, is mainly for coverage, but it 2HKOs Blissey and does a lot of damage to Ferrothorn. It also murders Tyranitar. Stealth Rock, because of lack of alternatives for setting them up.
    Thanks to Thick Fat, Mamoswine now resists Ice attacks, letting it resist the BoltBeam combo (since he's immune to Electric attacks anyway) and under rain, he's also resistant to Fire. Unlike Thundurus-T he isn't weak to Stealth Rock (albeit, he takes Spikes damage). Mamoswine also adds some much needed Physical attacking prowess to the team.

    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Natural Cure
    Timid | 136 HP / 120 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thunder
    - Rapid Spin
    - Recover

    Starmie is great. Its fast and has a set of useful resistances, namely Water, Fire, Ice, Fighting, Steel and Psychic, which let it switch in a lot easier, since most of them are pretty common. It works as a great check to the rare Gyarados and generally against opposing water types and also holds Keldeo at bay somewhat (Psyshock would help here). The offensive power it brings to the team compared to Forretress is also pretty useful. The HP EVs ensure that Starmie is never 2HKOed by Scarftran's Earth Power/Dragon Pulse and gives it a tad more bulk, while the rest is pumped int SpA to Power up Hydro Pump and Thunder (120 EV ensure the 2HKO with Thunder on Bold 252/4 Politoed).
    Hydro Pump is the main STAB attack, and under rain, it packs quite a punch and is enough to scare many opposing Pokemon out, leaving the opportunity to spin. It furthermore has a good chance to OHKO specially defensive Heatran after Stealth Rock. Thunder is mainly for coverage. It hurts the likes of Politoed hard, which makes Starmie an excellent counter for rain teams. Thanks to rain, it's also 100% accurate. I'm considering Psyshock for Keldeo here, or Grass Knot for Gastrodon, but I haven't seen many of them so far.Rapid Spin is mainly for keeping Stealth Rock off the field to keep Dragonite's Multiscale intact upon switching in. Furthermore, all other members of this team are hurt by Spikes/Toxic Spikes, so getting rid of them is a huge plus. Recover for healing. It keeps my spinner healthy and works great in combination with Natural Cure.
    Mainly the spinner. It's also a good switch in to a myriad of Pokemon, such as Politoed and specially defensive Heatran, as unlike Politoed, Starmie does not care about Toxic or Lava Plume burns thanks to Natural Cure.

    Breloom @ Toxic Orb
    Poison Heal
    Careful | 236 HP / 212 SpD / 60 Spe
    - Spore
    - Bulk Up
    - Drain Punch
    - Seed Bomb

    Description: I had quite some problems with Rotom-W, Blissey/Chansey and Ferrothorn, so Breloom was a nice addition to the team as it can easily set up on all of them. When rain is up, it can also switch into Tyranitar, as Fire Blast will be weakened and the damage can be recovered by Drain Punch. It profits greatly from rain as it has it's Fire weakness removed. The EVs give good overall bulk in Special Defence, to make it easier setting up on Water types, while 60 EVs in Speed guarantee to outspeed minimum Speed Heatran, Tyranitar, Skarmory and defensive Politoed. Poison Heal keeps Breloom healthy over the course of the match and protect it from Status (being hit by a scald burn switching in is annoying though).
    Spore is probably the most annoying move in the game, and what makes Breloom so annoying to face, as most teams must sacrifice one of their members to take the sleep. Bulk up boosts it's great attack and defence, making it quite hard to take down with physical moves (not named Brave Bird) after a couple of boosts (he usually gets more than one). Drain Punch is for STAB and recovery and breaks Steel types and Tyranitar, while Seed Bomb is Breloom's strongest STAB move and hits all those water types for great damage.
    Breloom adds a nice set of resistances to the team, most importantly Rock, Ground, Dark, Water and Electric, all of them pretty common in today's Metagame. Having an additional physical sweeper is also nice, especially if Blissey is in play. This thing has singlehandedly won me a couple of matches, simply because they underestimate it. Breloom has a couple of hard counters (after it has spored something already) in Tornadus-T, Skarmory, Dragonite and Salamence (the latter only if Breloom hasn't many Bulk Ups under it's belt, as then it will usually win, the same goes for non-Acrobatics Gliscor), but that's what teammates are for.

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Serene Grace
    Timid | 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    - Substitute
    - Calm Mind
    - Water Pulse
    - Thunder

    The core sweeper. Jirachi is great: great typing, balanced stats and an awesome movepool. In rain, this thing becomes very hard to break, thanks to the removal of it's fire type weakness (leaving one manageable weakness to Ground) and the Parafusion strategy, which allows it to set up 6 CM quite often (not that that was necessairy anyway). 252 HP EVs to make 101 HP substitutes (which certain pink blobs can't break) and 252 Speed with Timid to tie with other positive natured base 100s, as well as outrunning a myriad of other Pokemon). Serene Grace boosts Thunder's paralysis chance to 60% and Water Pulse's confusion rate to 40%.
    Substitute works great on Jirachi. Thanks to Sand Storm immunity, it will still recover HP thanks to Leftovers. 101 HP subs also mean Chansey/Blissey can't break it with a single Seismic Toss. It also blocks Status and Ditto's Imposter, and is generally great to avoid being revenge killed. Early game, it can also work for scouting, using sort of a hit and run strategy. Calm Mind works great in rain as it allows Jirachi to set up on certain would-be counters like Heatran. In rain, Water Pulse acts as sort of pseudo STAB. The advantage of using Water Pulse over Jirachi's STAB option is the handy confusion rate, working nicely with Thunder as a parafusion set, and it hits many of Jirachi's switch ins for super effective damage, namely Heatran, Hippowdon, Tyranitar, Gliscor and Mamoswine. Water also has nice coverage alongside Thunder. Speaking of which, a 100% accurate (in rain) 120 BP attack with a 60% paralysis chance (thanks to Serene Grace) is nothing to laugh at and puts large dents into most things that don't resist it (and are not named Blissey/Chansey). In today's rainswept metagame, Electric is a great type, murdering the likes of Starmie, Politoed, Keldeo, Tentcruel and Jellicent, to name but a few. Everything that isn't KOed won't enjoy being paralysed.
    The main sweeper. It works pretty well with Dragonite as they cover each other's weaknesses. It's sort of my only answer to Tornadus-T (which is annoying as hell). Jirachi is one of the most devastating rain sweepers, thanks to parafusion and great stats. Solid.​


    Some set up sweepers can be a real pain in the behind, if they're not handled early enough. Furthermore, status can be really problematic (I seem to be really unlucky when it comes to taking opposing Scalds). Last but not least, Tornadus-T can pose a real problem, depending on the set, especially if Jirachi is down or already weakened...

    Well, that's the team.
    Thanks a lot for reading.

    Former Members (open)

    • Thunderstrike the Thundurus-T
    • Item: Choice Scarf
    • Nature: Timid
    • EVs: 4 Def, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
    • Ability: Volt Absorb
    • Moves:
      • Thunder Fireworks. Thunder off a 145 base Special attack hurts anything that does not outright resist it. With rain, it becomes perfectly accurate, allowing Thundurus-T to fire off Thunders as if there's no tomorrow. Decent STAB option for late-game sweeping once resistant/immune Pokemon are eliminated.
      • Hidden Power [Ice] Perfect coverage move alongside Thundurus-T's Electric STAB. It hits the various Dragon and Grass types that resist Electric. Its also great for revenge-killing +1 Speed Salamence and Dragonite (if Multiscale is broken), as well as non-Scarf Landorus and Gliscor. Not much to say - pretty standard.
      • Focus Blast is here to not be completely walled by the likes of Ferrothorn and Tyranitar, given, it actually hits (which it seemingly never does). It also OHKOs Mamoswine on the switch, which is handy (again, IF it ever hits). I've been thinking of replacing it with Grass Knot, but that would make Ferrothorn a lot more threatening.
      • Volt Switch This is great for scouting early in the match and for wearing down opposing Pokemon. It also allows me to switch out doing some decent damage thanks to Thundurus-T's great Special Attack stat. I thought of using U-turn as it has no resists but decided against it since the power drop is significant, and because Volt Switch can be used as a perfectly accurate Electric STAB attack should sand, hail or especially sun be up.
    • Description: Thundurus-T adds some needed offense to the team. It's fast, powerful and has a handful of useful resistances (e.g. Fighting, Bug, Steel) and two extremely common immunities in Electric and Ground to make up for it's sub-par defenses.
      EVs are pretty straight forward, 252 in both SpA and Speed to make the most of its useful stats and 4 in Defense instead of HP to keep the latter at an odd number. Timid in order to outspeed +1 Pokemon of the 100 speed tier such as Scarf Salamcence and Jirachi thanks to Choice Scarf.
    • Synergy: As I said, Thundurus-T has a bunch of great resistances, resisting Scizors usual moves (except Pursuit) and adding a much needed Ground and Electric immunity to the team. The former is useful as Jirachi draws Earthquake like a magnet and Politoed attracts Grass and Electric attacks, both an easy switch in for Thundurus-T. The healing provided by Volt Absorb help easing Stealth Rock damage and it's always great if a sweeper can switch into Thunder Wave with impunity. Overall a great addition to the team.

    • Cyclone the Forretress
    • Item: Leftovers
    • Nature: Bold
    • EVs: 252 HP, 4 Def, 252 SpD
    • Ability: Sturdy
    • Moves:
      • Stealth Rock Easily one of the most useful moves in the entire game. I prefer it over spikes since it hits Dragonite (breaking Multiscale) and almost ruins Volcorona. It also helps wearing down Ninetales and Abomasnow. Entry hazards are especially important since this team seems to force a lot of switches.
      • Toxic Spikes Since this team is built around Jirachi, there are three reasons I run Toxic Spikes: Blissey, Chansey, and Gastrodon; the former two both a nuisance to any Calm Mind sweeper without Psyshock, the latter being immune to both Thunder and Water Pulse. Toxic damage will gradually chip away their health, forcing them to heal themselfs more often, leaving more time for Jirachi's set up. It also helps wearing down grounded non-steel walls and furthermore opposing weather changers as neither Tyranitar, Hippowdon, Abomasnow nor Ninetales enjoy Toxic poison.
        The currently rising popularity of Tentacruel and Amoonguss severely hampers the effectiveness of TS though.
      • Rapid Spin Pretty obvious. Dragonite and Thundurus-T detest Stealth Rock as it breaks Multiscale on the former and wears down the latter as he switches in and out a lot. Since most of my team are grounded, they are all hit by Spikes/Toxic Spikes (which is especially problematic for Politoed), so getting rid of them is pretty essential.
      • Volt Switch Since I'm running Leftovers, Volt Switch allows me to escape Magnezone and live another day. Since Forry is rather slow, it will usually go last, which allows me to safely switch in a counter without having to sacrifice a Pokemon.
    • Description: Thanks to Forry's great physical bulk, it can switch in a myriad of attackers and set up. The EVs are tailored for just that. 252 HP is obvious, while 252 EV in Special Defence help taking special attacks slightly better (it won't take a fire attack though), as Forry's Defence is already sky high. The bagworm works also great in rain as its massive fire weakness is somewhat weakened. Sturdy works great on Forry, acting like a Focus Sash (Overcoat is useless seeing Forry is already immune to Sand Storm and Hail is rather rare). I run Leftovers for overall survivability.
      Due to the increased popularity of Poison types (Tentacruel, Amoonguss), I'm considering HP [Ice] over Toxic Spikes.
    • Synergy: Dragonite absolutely requires Rapid Spin support to function properly, same goes for Thundurus-T. Forry will also set up hazards itself, making a sweep for DDnite and Jirachi much easier. Forry also adds a much needed Dragon resist (although it can't do much back). Resisting U-turn is also nice.

    • Teardrop the Mew
    • Item: Leftovers
    • Nature: Bold
    • EVs: 252 HP, 220 Def, 36 Spe
    • Ability: Synchronize
    • Moves:
      • Taunt One of the reasons this set is so great. Taunt (especially when followed by WoW) completely shuts down the likes of Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Forretress, Chansey and Blissey, since Mew is reasonably fast for a wall. It can also prevent sweepers from setting up on me, though these are usually faster than Mew and might grab at least one boost, so in case of physical attackers, it's often more useful to just burn them.
      • Will-O-Wisp Mew lures in Tyranitar and Scizor, which is why Will-o-Wisp works great on it and allows it to take on these threats more easily. Taunt will prevent SD Scizor from setting up/Roosting, meaning that Mew can wear both of them down, simply by using healing off the reduced damage they cause. It doesn't end with Tyranitar and Scizor though, there's a myriad of physical attackers who are crippled by a burn, most notably Haxorus, Terrakion and Dragonite (as a burn will break Multiscale). It also renders Gliscor and Breloom nearly useless when they're hit before Toxic Orb activates.
      • Softboiled Quite obviously, Mew needs to stay healthy as long as however possible. Softboiled does just that.
      • Dragon Tail After some testing I replaced Psychic with Dragon Tail, which proved far more useful as to not become set up fodder for Latias/Latios and generally for Phazing.
    • Description: This set can be really frustrating. Mew can often have a field day against Sand teams, severely crippling many of their sweepers as they are usually physical. It's also a good answer to Ferrothorn, which can be annoying to face (as it technically walls my entire team). Mew breaks stall for me, which was an issue before. Great Pokemon - underestimate it at your own peril.
    • Synergy: Pure psychic is a horrible defencive typing, and Fighting attacks are a non-issue for this team. What makes Mew important for this team is it's luring and crippling abilities, and the fact that it's a great answer to many of today's physical attackers and walls.
  2. Cerulean21


    Jan 22, 2008
    Thanks for your rate.
    I've been trying Superpower. It packs quite a punch, but sadly the Atk/Def drop is rather undesirable as I'm being forced to DD again after using it (which, once Multiscale is broken, can be really tough to accomplish).
    I'm still testing Ice Beam. It has pros and cons. It helps a lot against Landorus, Thundurus and the like, but leaves me more vulnerable to the likes of Toxicroak (or Guts Conkeldurr). Hitting Tornadus-T for super effective damage is a huge plus though, as Hurricane is quite difficult to handle.
  3. Asek


    Apr 28, 2012
    Good team, I can't suggest much but as Expert Physics said, Blissey is a pain. I know you probably like your current Dragonite set but I think a better set would be a Stallbreaking Dragonite over your current DDance set. The stallbreaker set can help soften up Jirachi's counters so that a late game sweep will be a lot easier for it. An EV spread of 112Atk/ 200SpA/ 196 Spe with Rash nature and moves Draco Meteor/ Thunder/ ExtremeSpeed/ Superpower and Life Orb can help your team a fair bit and also lures in Dragonites usually counters and disposes of them promptly
    GL with the team
  4. Cerulean21


    Jan 22, 2008
    Thanks for the rate. I'll try it out, as it seems like quite an interesting idea.
    Losing a set up sweeper might hurt though (especially against sun teams), but I'll see.

    I found that Rotom-W can give me quite some trouble still, especially if they're not choiced as Hydro Pump hurts a lot in rain, as does Thunder...
  5. Cerulean21


    Jan 22, 2008
    Bump, according to the rules:

    I changed the team around considerably after quite a bit of testing. And ended up replacing Forretress, Thundurus-T and Mew. Gives a new quality to the team.

    It has quite a nice win rate, but I'm sure there's room for improvement, so I'd like to hear your thoughts on it.

    Please read and rate.

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