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Salamence (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Delta 2777, Mar 7, 2011.

  1. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
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    Salamence

    -----

    [Overview]

    <p>Salamence possesses an enormous offensive movepool, which, when tied in with its fantastic offensive stats—base 135 Attack and 110 Special Attack—has the potential to tear through even the most prepared of teams. Despite not changing very much since Generation IV, Salamence still has all the tools needed to pose a major threat to the opponent, whether it be early-, mid-, or late-game. While Salamence does face competition from new threats such as Latios, Haxorus, and Hydreigon, it has its advantages over each of them and remains the omnipresent menace that it has always been.</p>

    <p>Perhaps Salamence's greatest advantage over its competition is its versatility. Due to its ability to go physical, special, or even mixed, true counters to Salamence remain few and far between. Its defensive capabilities are not to be overlooked either. 95 HP / 80 Def / 80 SpD isn't too shabby, and in conjunction with reliable recovery in Roost and Intimidate to weaken physical attacks, Salamence is one of the most durable sweepers available. A purely defensive set is also more than viable due to these traits, which can utilize a new move in Dragon Tail in order to phaze enemies and rack up entry hazard damage. Overall, despite the fact that Salamence hasn't changed much, it still remains one of the most dangerous Pokemon in OU, and has the potential to change the course of any match in the blink of an eye.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Dragon Dance
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Outrage / Dragon Claw
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Fire Blast / Roost
    nature: Naive / Naughty
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While many threats from previous generations struggled to adapt to the new generation, Salamence continues to be a force to be reckoned with, with its relic Dragon Dance set. Dragon Dance is Salamence's vice; it boosts both its Attack and Speed one stage, making it not only more powerful, but due to the Speed boost, also much more difficult to revenge kill. Outrage will be your primary attack. While it may lock you into your Dragon-type STAB for 2-3 turns, the attack's 100% accuracy and 120 Base Power is devastating when combined with Salamence's high Attack and the power boost from Life Orb. After a boost, Outrage will OHKO everything that doesn't resist it with the exception of only the most defensive of Pokemon. However, because a Salamence locked into Outrage is much easier to revenge kill, Dragon Claw is a viable alternative, although there is a significant drop in power. Earthquake has great synergy with Outrage, dealing with the Steel-types that resist it, namely Heatran, Jirachi, Metagross, and Empoleon. Fire Blast rounds off the set with perfect neutral coverage, and gives Salamence a method of dealing with Bronzong, Ferrothorn, and Scizor, among others.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs and nature are given to maximize both Speed and power, and allow Salamence to at the very worst tie with opposing base 100s. A Naughty nature is also a viable alternative for greater offensive power, although in exchange for this offensive buff, Salamence may no longer outspeed certain threats such as Hydreigon, Darmanitan, and numerous opposing base 100s such as Jirachi, Zapdos, and Volcarona. Roost is an option over Fire Blast if Pokemon such as Scizor, Bronzong, Skarmory, and Ferrothorn are not overly threatening to you, as it allows Salamence to restore the inevitable passive damage inflicted by Stealth Rock, sandstorm, and Life Orb recoil. Keep in mind that if running Roost over Fire Blast, a Jolly or Adamant nature is preferred.</p>

    <p>Life Orb gives this set the power that it needs to be such a devastating threat. With it, Salamence's attacks receive a 30% boost, ensuring many important KOs after a Dragon Dance, such as on Jirachi with Earthquake, Ferrothorn with Fire Blast, and Blissey with Outrage. However, because of the massive amounts of residual damage Salamence will be taking from the combination of sandstorm, Stealth Rock, and Life Orb, there is always the option of running Leftovers, Lum Berry, or even Yache Berry as the item. Leftovers can counteract sandstorm damage, and give Salamence the opportunity to set up an additional Dragon Dance. On the other hand, a Lum Berry can shed an unwanted Burn, Paralysis, Sleep, or Confused staus that may otherwise plague your sweep. Finally, Yache Berry may allow Salamence to survive certain Ice-type attacks that would otherwise destroy it, and in retaliation either take the opportunity to set up another Dragon Dance or attack outright.</p>

    [SET]
    name: MixMence
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Fire Blast
    move 3: Brick Break / Earthquake
    move 4: Roost / Outrage
    nature: Rash / Naive
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 116 Atk / 216 SpA / 176 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While the Dragon Dance set attempts to sweep the opponent's entire team, this set aims to break down walls and wreak as much havoc as possible. Draco Meteor is the crux of the set; in addition to OHKOing most non-Steel-types not named Blissey, Chansey, or Tyranitar, it can surprise many Pokemon who switch in expecting the Dragon Dance variant, such as Hippowdon and Slowbro. Fire Blast is the next staple, which prevents Skarmory, Bronzong, Jirachi, and Scizor from walling Salamence. Of course, if Fire Blast's lack of accuracy is discouraging, Salamence can still use the more reliable Flamethrower, although it will miss out on some damage output.</p>

    <p>The decision on the next two moves is where it gets tricky. While Salamence greatly appreciates the powerful STAB Outrage in its arsenal, locking yourself into a move for 2-3 turns could be risky. Should you choose Outrage for Salamence's fourth attack, then Earthquake is your best option for slot #3, as it hits Heatran, who otherwise resists all of its attacks, along with Empoleon and Tentacruel, who can also stand up to Salamence's other moves. Of course, with a weakness to Stealth Rock, Life Orb recoil, and potential sandstorm damage stacking up each turn, Salamence loves having a way to heal itself, and Roost gives Salamence the ability to do so. If you choose Roost instead of Outrage, it is recommended that you use Brick Break instead of Earthquake, as otherwise Blissey will be able to stall Salamence out, since Earthquake can't manage to 2HKO it. Brick Break also hits the omnipresent Tyranitar harder than Earthquake, which is important, as Tyranitar is very capable of taking Salamence's Draco Meteor thanks to its sandstorm-boosted Special Defense.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>This set has a variety of options in terms of EVs. The suggested EV spread of 116 Atk / 216 SpA / 176 Spe gives Salamence great overall attacking power, while allowing it to outrun everything up to neutral natured Pokemon with base 90 Speed. Of course, there are several threats that can outspeed Salamence with this EV spread, such as Darmanitan, Haxorus, Hydreigon, Timid Rotom-A, and all other base 100 Speed Pokemon that use a Speed-boosting nature. For this reason, an EV spread of 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe with a Naive nature is viable, although there is a significant drop in power.</p>

    <p>Prediction is often key when using this set. While Draco Meteor is very destructive, it will still do little damage to Pokemon such as Blissey, Tyranitar, and most Steel-types. Meanwhile, Salamence cannot afford to take residual damage from switching into Stealth Rock, as well as taking Life Orb and possibly sandstorm damage (although, as mentioned, Roost is a minor remedy for this). Furthermore, once Draco Meteor is used once, its power (as well as Fire Blast's) drops significantly, often forcing Salamence to switch out. Hitting a switch-in with the most appropriate move, whether it be Draco Meteor, Fire Blast, or Brick Break, will not only help in eliminating an opponent's Pokemon faster, but spare Salamence from future residual damage, ensuring that it survives longer into the match.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Wish
    move 2: Protect / Roost
    move 3: Dragon Tail
    move 4: Flamethrower
    nature: Bold / Relaxed
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While usually regarded as an offensive Pokemon, Salamence can also switch roles and make for an excellent team supporter. Boasting defenses greater than those of Gyarados, Intimidate, reliable recovery, 5 resistances, decent Speed, and a phazing move in STAB Dragon Tail, Salamence can check a wide variety of Pokemon, such as Excadrill and Victini, while simultaneously providing team support thanks to Wish. However, in order to heal reliably, Salamence needs to use either Protect or Roost in addition to Wish. Protect allows Salamence to avoid being hit the turn after Wish is used, guaranteeing that Salamence's health will be restored. On the other hand, Roost allows Salamence to heal itself without waiting an extra turn to do so, which can be useful considering Salamence may want to heal itself on the same turn it would expect to receive an otherwise fatal hit. Roost also has the advantage of eliminating Salamence's Rock and Ice weaknesses for one turn, allowing it to stall out certain Ice Beams and Stone Edges.</p>

    <p>Salamence's final two moves are for the sake of both coverage and utility, and for the fact that it would be criminal not to take advantage of Salamence's amazing offensive stats. Dragon Tail forces out stat boosters such as Scrafty and Sigilyph, while also doing a significant amount of damage to most targets. It is highly recommended to use this set alongside Spikes, as forcing opponents out, and thus racking up residual damage when grounded Pokemon switch in, can add up. Finally, Flamethrower is useful to fry certain Pokemon such as Scizor, Ferrothorn, Excadrill, Skarmory, and others.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The option of whether to use a Relaxed or Bold nature is relatively trivial. While Bold allows Salamence to speed tie with other minimum Speed base 100s, Relaxed will slightly increase the power of Dragon Tail. Should you run a Bold nature, it is advised that you run 16 Speed EVs, as this will allow Salamence to outrun all Adamant Breloom, allowing it to hit them with Flamethrower before being crippled by Spore. </p>

    <p>As mentioned, Salamence appreciates entry hazard support in order to spread more damage with Dragon Tail. In the same regard, Salamence hates switching into Stealth Rock, as the 25% health loss seriously hampers its walling potential. Forretress stands out of the crowd as a teammate that can not only aid Salamence in its endeavors in both of these regards, but also has great synergy with Salamence. Of course, Forretress is only one of many excellent teammates to Salamence; any other Pokemon that can assist with entry hazards or appreciates the Wishes Salamence can pass will more often than not be a good partner.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Salamence has numerous additional options at its disposal, and while all of them are usable, there is usually another Pokemon that can do it better. Choice Band Salamence is a devastating force, thanks to the power of Outrage right off the bat. However, with options such as Dragonite and Haxorus available, each with their own advantages over Salamence, its Choice Band set will never truly have the chance to shine, with the exception of on teams that simply try to abuse multiple Dragons. Choice Specs Salamence is also surprisingly powerful, thanks to its base 110 Special Attack stat and moves such as Draco Meteor, Hydro Pump, and Fire Blast. However, with the introduction of Hydreigon, who all but outclasses this set, Choice Specs Salamence should only be used either for its two base Speed points over Hydreigon, or for the sheer surprise factor. Latias and Latios also give Salamence competition for a Choice Specs set due to their higher Speed, Special Attack, and lack of a Stealth Rock weakness. A Choice Scarf set is also usable, but due to Salamence's Stealth Rock weakness, as well as competition it faces from Pokemon such as Hydreigon, it is generally discouraged.</p>

    <p>In addition to Choice items, there are several unique ways in which Salamence can take advantage of Dragon Dance. First and foremost, a bulky Dragon Dance set is viable, which takes advantage of Salamence's decent bulk in combination with Roost and Intimidate. The goal of this set is to accumulate multiple Dragon Dances thanks to defensive investment, Roost off any damage taken, and then sweep. However, Salamence must rely on Fire Blast or Earthquake as its secondary attacking move, each of which has its own disadvantages. Dragonite, on the other hand, not only has the more reliable Fire Punch, but also boasts Multiscale, which is generally superior to Intimidate when trying to accumulate multiple boosts.</p>

    <p>A Dragon Dance set with Draco Meteor is also usable, as it allows Salamence to unleash a powerful STAB move without locking itself into Outrage. Draco Meteor also has the advantage of doing serious damage to certain physical walls such as Slowbro, Hippowdon, and Gliscor. Of course, this does have several downsides. For one, Fire Blast cannot be used after Draco Meteor, or it will be nowhere nearly as powerful, doing laughable damage to threats such as Skarmory and Bronzong even considering their weakness to Fire moves. Even if Earthquake is used over Fire Blast, Pokemon such as Skarmory, Bronzong, and Ferrothorn become much more capable of walling Salamence, meaning more team support is needed. Lastly, using Draco Meteor forces Salamence to shift either more Attack or Speed EVs into Special Attack in order to have a respectably powerful Draco Meteor, and whichever the choice, those EVs will be missed.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Because of Salamence's fantastic stats, offensive typing, and enormous movepool, countering all sets at once is virtually impossible. However, there are some Pokemon that come close.</p>

    <p>While niche, Porygon2 is the closest thing to a counter to Salamence in existance. Thanks to the new item Evolite, Porygon2 boasts superb defenses, and thanks to Trace, can use Salamence's own Intimidate against it to weaken its physical attacks even further. Porygon2 can then either paralyze Salamence with Thunder Wave or OHKO it with Ice Beam. Cresselia is your next best bet, as much like Porygon2, she can switch in on nearly any set thanks to her incredible defenses and either cripple Salamence with Thunder Wave or inflict massive damage with Ice Beam. However, Cresselia is 2HKOed by a Choice Band Salamence's Outrage, and takes upwards of 80% minimum from the combination of Draco Meteor and Outrage from MixMence, meaning she is not completely safe. Rhyperior and Regirock in sandstorm can also withstand the majority of Salamence's attacks, although the former can not take a Hydro Pump or boosted Draco Meteor. Registeel can also take two Fire Blasts or Earthquakes, depending on how it is EVed, and can either paralyze Salamence or hit it with Ice Punch. Bronzong can switch in on anything but Fire Blast, and inflict massive damage with either Gyro Ball or Hidden Power Ice.</p>

    <p>Steel-types in general are often the first Pokemon to be looked at when considering countering a Dragon-type, as they are the only Pokemon that resist the powerful Outrages and Draco Meteors that dominate the metagame. Choice Band Scizor can switch into any move with the exception of Fire Blast, and deal over 60% damage with Bullet Punch. Metagross, Ferrothorn, Jirachi, Forretress, Skarmory, and other defensive Steel-types can all sponge an Outrage or Draco Meteor and retaliate accordingly. It should be noted that if rain is on the field, both Skarmory and Bronzong become hard counters, as a neutered Fire Blast will not be powerful enough to defeat them so long as they have not sustained prior damage. Overall, forcing a Salamence into locking itself into Outrage should never be one's main strategy in terms of countering it, but should it come to that, it is always a good last resort.</p>

    <p>There are several other Pokemon that can switch in on the Dragon Dance set and survive a boosted hit. Swampert, Hippowdon, Suicune, and several others can all take a +1 Outrage, Salamence's best means of offense against them, and attack back with their Ice moves. Quagsire ignores Salamence's stat boosts thanks to Unaware, and can use the Dragon Dance set as setup fodder with Curse. However, if Salamence is running a set with Draco Meteor, this tactic can backfire, as Unaware ignores the Special Attack drops from Draco Meteor as well. Lastly, while it can't take any attacks, and requires good prediction to be effective, Whimsicott can switch in on a Roost or Dragon Dance, Encore it, and proceed to Leech Seed Salamence to death if it stays in.</p>

    <p>Weavile and Mamoswine are both excellent users of Ice Shard, and therefore can revenge kill even a +6 Salamence, so long as it doesn't have a Yache Berry; however, neither can risk switching in on a Fire Blast or Draco Meteor. Donphan is also capable of using Ice Shard, and can withstand a boosted Outrage to back it up. However, Donphan's Ice Shard is incredibly weak otherwise, and Donphan itself is not very common in OU play. Cloyster is in the same boat as Donphan, boasting great Defense and having access to Ice Shard (which, unlike Donphan, it gets STAB on).</p>

    <p>Unfortunately, revenge killing is also often a common method of dealing with Salamence, as defeating it without losing a Pokemon either requires lots of luck or good prediction, neither of which should be completely depended on. Starmie, Thundurus, Landorus, and Latios all have a higher base Speed than Salamence, and can revenge Salamence either with or without utilizing a Choice Scarf, depending on whether Salamence has a Dragon Dance under its belt. Excadrill in sandstorm can also finish off a weakened Salamence with a Rock Slide, as long as it has not used Dragon Dance twice or more.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Salamence receives Moxie as its Dream World ability. While a free Attack boost after a kill may seem like an amazing asset at first, it also means that Salamence may not use any moves exclusive to previous generations, the important ones being Outrage and Roost. Because of this, Salamence struggles to gain much use out of its Dream World ability, as it means it would have to use Dragon Claw rather than Outrage on the Dragon Dance set. Intimidate is also a great ability for Salamence, and giving it up could mean the difference between surviving an attack and being KOed by it. While it still has the potential to be very useful, Moxie, once released, will still generally be overshadowed by Intimidate in terms of overall usefulness.</p>
  2. Bloo

    Bloo
    is a Tutoris a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris Smogon Frontier's Pike Queenis a Past WCoP Winnerdefeated the Smogon Frontier
    Head TD

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    Hey Delta, are you still working on this?
  3. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
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    Yeah, forgot to mention I was going on vacation last week. If it's not at least started soon I'll give it to someone else

    (sorry!!)
  4. DankDawson

    DankDawson

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    If you can't do this, I can help out, although I've never done one before.
  5. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

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    I'd actually do this to give Salamence his fair shot. I've been loyal to the dragon this gen.
  6. shipship

    shipship

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    I suggest an alternate EV spread on the Dragon Dancer. The 24 special attack EVs aren't doing anything. They were originally put there to guarantee 100% damage on physically-defensive Skarmory. However, the buff to Sturdy means that you're never OHKOing Skarmory from 100% health. If Skarmory has taken Stealth Rock damage, then no special attack EVs are needed to OHKO it.

    Standard Ferrothorn is also OHKOed by 0 EV Fire Blast and a Naive nature. A Jolly nature is not recommended because you lose the guaranteed OHKO on Ferrothorn.

    New EVs: 252 Atk, 4 Def, 252 Speed.
  7. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
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    You have a point but it is nice to be able to have good chances to OHKO 252/252 Sassy Ferrothorn, who is still relatively common. I'll adjust the spread a little; I'm giving Salamence 248 Atk EVs for the same reason as I mentioned in theScrafty thread.
  8. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    I hate rushing you, but could we get the stuff up please? It's been over two months. :(
  9. yee

    yee
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    Ive actually seen Wish+Protect used very well. It probably looked something like this-

    Salamence @ Leftovers
    Ability- Intimidate
    Nature- Impish
    EVs- 252 HP, 252 def, 4 atk
    -Wish
    -Protect
    -Dragon Tail
    -Flamethrower

    All of the moves should be self-explanatory. Impish because Dragon Tail will be used more and Bold doesn't OHKO Excadrill but if Bold allows for a 2HKO on Ferrothorn by all means make it standard.

    Don't forget about the mixed Dancer-

    Rash, 176 atk, 252 spA, 80 spe
    -Dragon Dance
    -Draco Meteor
    -Outrage
    -Earthquake/Fire Blast

    If you get a boost you will be breaking a team in half. Because DD will likely become the standard again with better Draco abusers and the incredible damage output DD gives, physical walls like Gliscor, Hippowdon and Slowbro will be very tempted to come in, letting you destroy them with a max spA Draco Meteor and open the flood gates for another physical sweeper. Earthquake at +1 is more powerful than Fire Blast at -2 so it is listed first but neither is completely superior. The EV spread allows for the most power and outruns base 130s after a DD, if you want more speed you have to go up to max with a speed boosting nature to get the most benefit out of its speed so you can outrun Haxorus, Hydreigon, Darmanitan etc. and those may be scarfed so you're still not in a solid position one on one. 80 speed also puts you well ahead of the "I outrun Jolly Tyranitar at 244" crowd. Naive Mence also has trouble OHKOing Slowbro and Hippo.

    This seems to be near all Mence can do along with the sets you have, I was gonna recommend a bulky Dancer but Dragonite outclasses it now (I guess). It would be Dragon Dance/Dragon Claw/Fire Blast/Roost, im sure its usable plus the stats its boosting are higher than Dragonite's and you have Fire Blast coming off of a higher spA. I would use 80 spe and possibly a Life Orb to help it muscle through steels.
  10. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
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    Ok shit is about to get done.
  11. prem

    prem failed abortion
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    is spec mence viable or is it only gonna be ac material. its not an inferior latios because his coverage moves are much higher base powers (120 for both fire blast and hydro pump over hp fire and surf)
  12. Smith

    Smith is a 90's bitch
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    Yes, but lower base speed and base special attack, Stealth Rock weakness and lack of Trick / Psycho Shock means Lati@s is better in most scenarios. Even with the higher base power coverage moves, the increase in power isn't significant.

    Not a HUGE damage increase, and really Specs Dragons are best for laying dents in things with DM anyway.
  13. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
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    We talked it over and the sets listed will be the only ones included in the analysis.

    -CB is outclassed by Garchomp/Ononokusu/Dragonite
    -Choice Scarf sucks
    -Choice Specs faces too much competition from Sazandora, Latios, and Latias
    -Bulky DD is kind of outclassed by Dragonite
    -Mixed Dragon Dancer was close but we just decided it generally wasnt worth it
  14. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

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    Who decided on this shit?

    Choice Band - Intimidate is better than Multi-scale so its really not outclassed. you should be running that set with 2 dragons ANYWAY. I'd still add this.

    Scarf - yeah piece of shit.

    Bulky DD outclassed by dragonite? No. Salamence is a physical wall with Intimidate which is probably top 3 abilities in the damn game. Bulky DD should in no way be omitted.

    Mixed Dragon Dancer being omitted is foolish as fuck. Draco Meteor OHKOs Gliscor and many other pokemon so you don't lock yourself into outrage. Why the hell would this be omitted??

    This analysis probably needs a skeleton, because mence is one of those dudes with a lot of viable disputed shit. Like currently the sets need work as it is because a lot of shit isn't cut and dry.

    Heres a skeleton I would suggest having used literally every Mence set this gen.

    Mixmence honestly should be the top dog for mence. And add the ability tag since Overconfidence is unreleased.

    [SET]
    name: MixMence
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Fire Blast / Flamethrower
    move 3: Brick Break
    move 4: Roost
    nature: Rash
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 116 Atk / 216 SAtk / 176 Spe

    This should be the standard Mence. I would actually split mixmence into two like last gen. The classical one is better anyway (yes it is). I'd slash Flamethrower.. its good for picking off weakened things like Gliscor with 100% accuracy without having to resort to Draco. Roost is good on switches. For those who like a tankier spread, remember Mence can abuse Roost and Intimidate and is one of the best breloom counters. I would mention this spread in AC: 152 HP / 108 Def / 216 SpA / 32 Spe This makes Salamence hard hitting and very bulky at the expense of speed. 32 Spe outspeeds Tyanitar and Adamant Breloom, the main reason (along with other fighters) to run RoostMixMence.

    [SET]
    name: All-Out Attacker
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Fire Blast / Flamethrower
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Dragon Claw / Outrage / Brick Break
    nature: Naive
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    This set is really good and will be even better when overconfidence is released. It just plays so much differently from the first set that they deserve to be separate.



    [SET]
    name: Offensive Dragon Dance
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Outrage / Dragon Claw
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Fire Blast / Roost
    nature: Naive / Naughty
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    Dragon Claw makes this a better sweeper, where as Outrage makes this a better pure wall breaker. I would rather slash Naughty there for additional power and just mention Jolly / Adamant in AC.

    [SET]
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Wish
    move 2: Roost / Protect / Roar
    move 3: Dragon Tail
    move 4: Fire Blast
    nature: Bold / Impish
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe

    16 Speed outspeeds Adamant Breloom. 248 HP is better for SR. Fire Blast > Flamethrower for 2HKOing Skarmory and doing more in general to things you will use it on. Bold is better than Impish because Dragon Tail is for shuffling not attacking.

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Dragon Dance
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Dragon Claw
    move 3: Fire Blast / Fire Fang
    move 4: Roost
    nature: Adamant
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 248 HP / 56 Atk / 148 Def / 56 Spe

    pretty simple. Good wall, good bulky sweeper. Fire Blast does more initially to Ferrothorn, Scizor, Skarmory, Forretress, but Fire Fang does more tho SpDef Jirachi and Bronzong and gets boosted by Dragon Dance. I'll happily debate this set with anyone. Oh wait, this counters SD scizor also...

    (USER WAS INFRACTED FOR THIS POST: Be civil when making suggestions so you don't come off as a jerk.)
  15. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
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    To answer your first question, the Quality Control team decided on "this shit". The only thing contested at all was Eo for the mixed DD set, who agreed that an Other Options mention was fine. Everything else was pretty unanimous (although Iconic did have a SpecsMence fetish).

    I kind of fought for Bulky DD, but Intimidate is kind of overshadowed by Multiscale, and Intimidate only works on the initial switch anyway (Multiscale can be "unreliable" but with Roost its usable multiple times).

    EDIT: If you want to argue your opinion further please do it on #QC on IRC.
  16. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

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    For the record, Intimidate is still consistently a better ability than multi-scale. Salamence can counter a fuckton more shit than Dragonite can, and doesn't need rapid spin or clear skies to activate
  17. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    Mixed DD needs to get out of Other Options, seriously. Mence's real catch over the other physical dragons is his great base 110 Special Attack. Without Draco Meteor, you're not going to get past Slowbro or Gliscor without getting Thunder Waved or Ice attacked. It also means Mence can do more than one thing at once. MixMence can't sweep, pure DD can't wallbreak. Mixed DD can do both.
  18. Nickg07

    Nickg07

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    I've been running Adamant, with DD, Dragon Claw, Firefang and Brick Break as a slightly bulky affair with 252 attack, only 120 speed and the rest into defence or HP.

    I must say, having Brick Break has pulled me out of a lot of situations, especially Tyranitar etc but maybe EQ could have done it better, i dont know!
  19. prem

    prem failed abortion
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    on the ddance set, slash dragon claw next to outrage so you don't have to lock yourself into a dragon move while sweeping.

    for the ddance set maybe slash brick break or comment on the fact that balloon tran walls the entire moveset with the air balloon intact

    also in the set comments you mention 404 attack before boosts, which is a lie unless mence is running an adamant nature. with the current spread he has 368 attack before boosts
  20. En-kin

    En-kin

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    Why isnt there a set for Dream World mence, because i find Moxie on mence EXTREMEly Potent
  21. Bugbot

    Bugbot

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    MoxieMence has not been released yet. No analysis can be done if the Pokemon does not exist (yet).

    I disagree with the 248 Atk / 8 SpA / 252 Spe spread. Unlike Scrafty, you do not gain an extra point in Attack after a boost. Either max Attack or give it sufficent SpA investment to OHKO Sassy 252/252 Ferrothorn.
  22. Iconic

    Iconic
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    ddmixmence or no ddmixmence it doesnt matter really...

    QC Approved 1/3
  23. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Let me be the first to stamp this magnificent analysis. Seriously, good job!

    QC APPROVED (2/3)

    EDIT: Fuk Iconic
  24. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
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    Don't want to bother waiting since it's been so long so I'll stamp my own analysis...

    QC Approved (3/3)

    Mixed DD may be added at a later date, may not be; it doesn't have much use outside of hitting Gliscor, Hippowdon, and Slowbro, and sacrafices coverage, making it pretty iffy. I am also debating removing Earthquake and/or Outrage from the mixed set, although it is helpful in certain situations. Bulky DD was rejected. Any more input on anything not addressed above is welcome.
  25. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I saw Salamence doesn't learn Heal Bell; that's Dragonite when purified from XD.

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