Ubers Salamence (Defensive) [GP 2/2]

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Defensive
########
name: Defensive
move 1: Dragon Tail
move 2: Roost
move 3: Body Slam
move 4: Defog
ability: Intimidate
item: Salamencite
evs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe
nature: Impish

Moves
========

Dragon Tail is very effective at exerting defensive pressure on the foe, which Salamence can do with its solid bulk. Roost usefully keeps Salamence alive throughout the match to check threats and remove entry hazards. Body Slam also keeps offensive threats on their toes with above-average damage and a looming paralysis chance. Salamence's ability to use Defog is assisted by Intimidate and its above-average offensive presence, letting it do its job against powerhouses such as Primal Groudon and Extreme Killer Arceus. If balance or stall is a concerning problem to the team, Toxic can be used over Defog or Body Slam to whittle down opposing walls and tanks if needed, and Refresh can take the place of Dragon Tail to keep Salamence status free and make it a more consistent Ho-Oh check.

Set Details
========

The EV spread lets Mega Salamence outspeed Adamant Rayquaza and Modest Kyurem-W. If one wishes to aim for a higher benchmark, an EV spread of 248 HP / 172 Def / 88 Spe with an Impish nature lets Salamence outspeed Modest Xerneas and Yveltal. An even higher benchmark is 248 HP / 136 Def / 124 Spe with an Impish nature, letting Salamence outspeed maximum Speed Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre. Overall, each of the above options largely depend if the team is specifically weak to any of the threats mentioned, which helps Salamence act as a more flexible defensive Pokemon.

Usage Tips
========

When to Mega Evolve is key to using Salamence, as balancing Intimidate and the increased Speed and power of its Mega Evolution during a match increases Salamence's effectiveness. This is because Salamence can effectively check common offensive threats such as Rock Polish Primal Groudon and Extreme Killer Arceus, but it sometimes needs to Mega Evolve to either take particularly powerful attacks or use Mega Salamence's Speed tier. If a wallbreaker is likely to switch in to punish Salamence for trying to Defog, using either Dragon Tail or Body Slam can deter or cripple them, which therefore makes Defog less difficult to utilize. Also, if Refresh is not opted for, avoid burn, paralysis, and poison, as they can reduce Salamence's effectiveness in checking most offensively oriented Pokemon.

Team Options
========

Support variants of Primal Groudon are good partners for Salamence, as Primal Groudon checks the Fairy-types that can threaten Salamence in addition to providing Stealth Rock for Salamence to take advantage of with Dragon Tail. In the same vein, Klefki has great type synergy with Salamence, checks Xerneas, Latios, and Latias, absorbs Toxic, and can set up Spikes to defensively pressure the opponent with the help of Salamence's Dragon Tail. Aegislash also has good synergy with Salamence, checking Latios and Latias through Pursuit and can check Xerneas, which are three major offensive threats to Salamence. Defensive variants of Primal Kyogre appreciate having Primal Groudon checked by Salamence, can soak up most Ice-type attacks, and almost freely have the ability to spread burns with Scald, giving Salamence's defenses more of an edge. Ghost Arceus can cover Stone Edge Extreme Killer Arceus for Salamence, and the freedom of not running Defog can let Ghost Arceus run multiple different utility moves to support its team better. Ferrothorn and Skarmory also assist Salamence in checking Stone Edge Extreme Killer Arceus and have access to entry hazards that Salamence can use in conjunction with Dragon Tail.

Other Options
########

Iron Defense allows Salamence to handle Swords Dance Primal Groudon variants by itself, which gives it a solid niche on certain stall teams at the cost of usually foregoing Defog. Wish support is something both Salamence and its Mega Evolution can provide, with both having a solid HP stat to take advantage of Wish, and regular Salamence's ability to hold Leftovers can open up the Mega Evolution slot for another Pokemon to use. Earthquake can give Salamence the opportunity to lure some of its common defensive checks such as Klefki, Mega Diancie, and Rock Arceus (if it is paralyzed by Body Slam), and beat them one-on-one, but prevents Salamence from running an integral move.

Defensive
########
name: Defensive
move 1: Dragon Tail
move 2: Roost
move 3: Body Slam
move 4: Defog
ability: Intimidate
item: Salamencite
evs: 248 HP / 88 Def / 172 Spe
nature: Impish

Moves
========

  • Dragon Tail+ Body Slam is extremely effective in exerting defensive pressure on the opposing team while spreading status
  • Roost for recovery
  • With Intimidate pre-evo and solid bulk, Salamence can find more opportunities to Defog than most hazard removers despite its Stealth Rock weakness
  • Toxic is nice against opposing walls+Pdon
  • Refresh can usually let Salamence outlast most stall teams or can be used if its team does not have a sufficient Ho-Oh check

Set Details
========

  • Above EVs allow Salamence to outspeed the base 95 Speed tier (i.e. Rayquaza+Kyurem-W)
  • 248 HP / 172 Def / 88 Spe Impish can outspeed Modest Xern+Ygod
  • Alternatively, more bulk can be implemented on Salamence with 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe and a Jolly nature while outspeeding the base 90 Speed tier

Usage Tips
========

  • Mega Evolve only when you absolutely need to take a hit well, as Intimidate is a very useful defensive tool. However, don't stay un-evolved for most of the match, as Body Slam hits relatively hard with Aerialate factored in
  • By extension, Salamence is able to pressure common sweepers (RP PDon+EKiller), but be wary of these Pokemon carrying lure moves such as Stone Edge or Toxic. Try to scout out moves like these with other team members if necessary.
  • When preparing to Defog, using Dragon Tail on likely switches to wallbreakers can be a solid solution to keep them from forcing Salamence out entirely.
  • If not carrying Refresh, avoid status if possible

Team Options
========

  • Support Pdon is great; checks Fairies while providing defensive pressure from Salamence's Dragon Tail through SR
  • Keys can lay Spikes for DTail spam, absorb Toxic, and check Latis
  • Aegislash also synergizes well with Salamence's defensive capabilities and can Pursuit trap the Latis and check Xerneas
 
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Thugly Duckling

I play TCG now
Edgar had a nice DD RestTalk set (Rest / Sleep Talk / Dragon Dance / Thrash + Max defense) in one of his SPL matches, that'd be cool if you included it.
 
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PISTOLERO recommended me to use 16 Speed EVs with a Jolly Nature on Defensive MMence.
Unfortunately, I don't know what the EVs are for but anyways, a little speed creep is important imo, even on the most defensive set.
 

Minority

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Running Jolly + 16 EVs isn't for creep against base 120s, it ensures you out-speed max base 90s and you beat base 91, 95s, and 99s running 252 or less investment.
 

tehy

Banned deucer.
You can gain 2 points in Defense by going Impish and investing in Speed (124 Speed EVs for +spe base 90s, but if 308 speed means something you can still reach it and get 1 more point in defense).

Just my 2 defense
 

tehy

Banned deucer.
Speed creep is more about throwing on random EVs to outspeed same base mons, a huge no-no in analyses. A little speed creep is important, but keep it to yourself

That said, 100% outspeeding certain Pokemon is definitely a different story. (Simply put: other Salamence can use 20 speed evs to outspeed your set, so that's what usually happens, but a Kyogre can't use 256 Speed EVs for your set since that's impossible.)
 
I'm not english men and I'm trying to explain my point of view with my little vocabulary.

I didn't mean "speed creep", I meant "100%" outspeeding things like 90 BS & co.

That said, thx for the explainations everybody.
 
I think it should be pointed out that this set can only be used for the most part in Pokémon Showdown, and the only way to use it in the games is with a Salamence that was Purified in Colosseum (if I'm right, I'm not exactly an expert on these things, even though I try. God knows I try...), and then taught Body Slam in FR/LG via Move Tutor. Oh, and Defog hasn't been available since Gen 4 (too bad, since I like it better than Rapid Spin).
If I ever get into PokéShowdown, or if the moves ever become available in the game again, I might give this set a whirl, 'cause it looks really great, and matches well with my more defensive play strategy.

We need a thumbs up icon emoticon, because that is what I'd give the work on this set if I could.
 

Lemonade

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I think it should be pointed out that this set can only be used for the most part in Pokémon Showdown, and the only way to use it in the games is with a Salamence that was Purified in Colosseum (if I'm right, I'm not exactly an expert on these things, even though I try. God knows I try...), and then taught Body Slam in FR/LG via Move Tutor. Oh, and Defog hasn't been available since Gen 4 (too bad, since I like it better than Rapid Spin).
If I ever get into PokéShowdown, or if the moves ever become available in the game again, I might give this set a whirl, 'cause it looks really great, and matches well with my more defensive play strategy.

We need a thumbs up icon emoticon, because that is what I'd give the work on this set if I could.
Once again, these analyses are for Smogon Ubers, which plays on sim, so there is no reason to mention they are for PS. Also you can get Mence in RSE so you don't need Col, though it's still a pain to get ingame.
 
Once again, these analyses are for Smogon Ubers, which plays on sim, so there is no reason to mention they are for PS. Also you can get Mence in RSE so you don't need Col, though it's still a pain to get ingame.
True, but I know I can't be the only one to use these analyses for ideas to create in-game sets, or even copy them and use them, when breeding new Pokémon, and making new sets.

Or am I still that much of a n00b?
 

Lemonade

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True, but I know I can't be the only one to use these analyses for ideas to create in-game sets, or even copy them and use them, when breeding new Pokémon, and making new sets.

Or am I still that much of a n00b?
I'm sure you aren't the only one, but the point is that mentioning something about ingame in these analyses is not relevant. I do recommend trying PS out though, since it's pretty fun having access to everything and focusing on battling instead of training your Mons ingame.
 
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I'm sure you aren't the only one, but the point is that mentioning something about ingame in these analyses is not relevant. I do recommend trying PS out though, since it's pretty fun having access to everything and focusing on battling instead of training your Mons ingame.
Yeah, I've had PS recommended to me, but haven't tried it yet, due to being very busy recently. But I'd decided that when I do have the time, I'll try it out.
 
Mention why support Primal Groudon is a great teammate in team options (you can mention one or more of the following: Fairy check / Kyogre check / SR support for DTail Spam / Salamence provides a Ground check for PDon).

I'd make 56 speed standard, Rayquaza is fairly common and striking it first is worth the small loss in physical bulk IMO.

I'd remove the "very easily" part from the intro, 30% isn't that high a para rate.

Finally, add a little bit to Usage Tips. The first bullet point is good but mention what kinds of Pokemon this should come in on (Rock Polish Groudon for example) and what you should be careful about (Stone Edge LO EKiller, status from support Don, etc). Salamence isn't gonna be your only check to these threats so switching in, say, Rest Kyogre on an expected Toxic from support Don might not be a bad idea. Just some things to think about, I don't expect you to include all this.

Looks good so far.
 
Mention why support Primal Groudon is a great teammate in team options (you can mention one or more of the following: Fairy check / Kyogre check / SR support for DTail Spam / Salamence provides a Ground check for PDon).

I'd make 56 speed standard, Rayquaza is fairly common and striking it first is worth the small loss in physical bulk IMO.

I'd remove the "very easily" part from the intro, 30% isn't that high a para rate.

Finally, add a little bit to Usage Tips. The first bullet point is good but mention what kinds of Pokemon this should come in on (Rock Polish Groudon for example) and what you should be careful about (Stone Edge LO EKiller, status from support Don, etc). Salamence isn't gonna be your only check to these threats so switching in, say, Rest Kyogre on an expected Toxic from support Don might not be a bad idea. Just some things to think about, I don't expect you to include all this.

Looks good so far.
Implemented. Setting up for QC.
 

shrang

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248 HP / 88 Def / 172 Spe Impish is just as fast and has 2 more points in Def
canman98 once you replace the EV spread with this I'll approve.

bombarrows Mence's lower HP doesn't make it very worthwhile Wish passer, especially when you're using up a slot that's better off spent on something else.
 
Finished writing. This is now ready for its 3rd QC Check (I would appreciate feedback on if Water Arceus is a good teammate or not, and if so, what should replace it).
 

Fireburn

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Honestly you probably only need enough Speed to outrun Adamant Rayquaza. Modest Xerneas doesn't run max Speed unless Scarfed and you probably don't want to fight LO Yveltal anyway. Sweep Hack PROBLEMS steelphoenix any second opinions?

Waterceus is cool to help take on Ice attackers, also means you don't have to run Defog on it. I would probably sooner mention Arceus-Ghost however, as it helps take on Stone Edge EKillers that Mence can struggle to fight. Other alt SE EKiller checks are worth mentioning too.

I'll approve once QC gives their thoughts on point #1.
 
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