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Salamence (Dragon Dance) (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by jackm, Nov 21, 2012.

  1. jackm

    jackm

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    Messages:
    381
    [SET]
    name: Dragon Dance
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Outrage
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Fire Blast
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Intimidate / Moxie
    nature: Naive
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Salamence's combination of Speed, ability, and typing allow it to be a potent sweeper, capable of swiftly setting up and stealing the opponent's momentum. Once it has set up, Salamence is nigh unstoppable due to its excellent coverage; this is augmented by its excellent base 100 Speed, which allows it to outspeed many of the common Uber Choice Scarf users at +1. Unfortunately, without a boost Salamence's Attack is noticeably lacking when compared to Uber behemoths like Groudon, Zekrom, and Rayquaza. The choice of ability will help Salamence either get going or stay going; Moxie enables Salamence to break through walls that would ordinarily be able to sponge its attacks, while Intimidate is immensely helpful while setting up. Without Intimidate, Salamence has an incredibly hard time setting up without Wobbuffet or dual screens support, but without Moxie it can be difficult to put a full-fledged sweep into action. Really, it's up to personal preference, although in general Intimidate tends to be more effective due to its utility.</p>

    <p>Due to Salamence's apparent inferiority in this role to Rayquaza, many would choose to run the latter if picking between the two. Because of this, the best way to utilize Dragon Dance Salamence is as a partner to Rayquaza. The reasoning behind this logic goes as follows: the opponent will rarely carry more than one hard check to the generic "Dragon Dancing Dragon / Flying type"; by carrying both Salamence and Rayquaza, one can overwhelm this check by way of sheer pressure and force. Any variant of Rayquaza will do, really, but they all perform slightly different roles: mixed shreds Salamence's counters to pieces, Dragon Dance aims to get rid of its own checks (and, by extension, Salamence's), and Swords Dance works like a combination of the two.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Max Speed is incredibly important for Dragon Dance Salamence, as going lower will open it up to all sorts of revenge killers at +1. This is especially important for beating Genesect; at +1 Attack, Salamence outspeeds and 2HKOes it on the switch. At +2&mdash;presumably attained by Moxie after a kill&mdash;Genesect is outsped and OHKOed. This is one of the biggest reasons to use Salamence over, say, Rayquaza. While Salamence lacks the raw mixed attacking power of our favorite meteorological serpent, its higher Speed means that it can assuredly avoid revenge kills from common Choice Scarf users like Genesect and Kyurem-W. Unfortunately for Salamence, its high Speed means nothing against priority, nor can its paltry bulk stand up to many of the powerful revenge killers that still outrun it at +1.</p>

    <p>Within Salamence's diverse movepool, there are several alternate move choices that are viable. Because of their similar coverage, Brick Break and Earthquake are somewhat interchangeable; Brick Break allows Salamence to hit Chansey without locking itself into Outrage and to break Ferrothorn at +2 regardless of weather. It also hits Air Balloon Heatran which, though rare, is nonetheless a threat. Earthquake has more general utility, however, as it hits threats like Jirachi, Steel Arceus, and Dialga harder. Stone Edge and Aqua Tail could be used to hit Lugia and Skarmory (under rain) hard, respectively. However, Salamence's need for neutral coverage usually discourages this choice&mdash;no matter what one does, running one of them will cause certain walls to be able to counter Salamence with increased ease. Finally, Dragon Claw could be run over Outrage to pick off miscellaneous Dragon-types that Salamence conveniently outspeeds. However, such a role is better left to a Choice Scarf set; Dragon Claw simply lacks the raw power that Dragon Dance Salamence requires to sweep.</p>

    <p>While Dragon Dance Salamence greatly appreciates the boost that Life Orb grants it, other items deserve mention due to their ability to enhance Salamence's ability to set up. Lum Berry allows Salamence to shrug off miscellaneous status; this can be pivotal when Salamence requires a free turn to set up or land an attack. Dragon Gem could also be used to get the ball rolling, due to the powerful Outrage that it grants Salamence (so powerful, in fact, that it OHKOes specially defensive Giratina at +0!). When running one of these items, it's still important to provide Salamence with plenty of opportunities to set up. Though it will be easier, getting a sweep going still requires near-perfect timing when using something as frail as Salamence.</p>

    <p>Due to its relative lack of offensive power, Salamence greatly appreciates hazards to facilitate its sweep. Deoxys-S is a great choice for setting these up, being able to provide both hazards and screens; especially when running Moxie, dual screens give Salamence the opportunities it needs to set up effectively. Forretress, Skarmory, and Groudon are also viable partners. Forretress and Skarmory have excellent defensive synergy with Salamence, being able to sponge ExtremeSpeeds and Scarf Dragon-type attacks. Forretress also has the notable ability to spin, which is incredibly useful due to Salamence's frailty and weakness to Stealth Rock. Groudon powers up Fire Blast, as well as being able to take priority aimed at Salamence.</p>

    <p>When running Salamence, it's important to recognize that its lack of power means that it has several counters that need to be accounted for. Groudon can give this set major problems, especially if it's carrying Stone Edge. Wallceus, Skarmory in rain, and Lugia can all counter Salamence as well; Skarmory in particular is one of the few things that can stall out a +2 Outrage, even after Stealth Rock. This is where carrying Rayquaza along with Salamence is helpful. When running Dragon Dance Salamence, a mixed, Swords Dance, or even Dragon Dance Rayquaza can come in immensely handy for dealing with these opponents; due to its ability to carry different coverage moves and sheer attacking power, all of the threats mentioned above can be dealt with with relative ease.</p>
  2. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    HONESTLY, only the DD set needs to be revamped as now Moxie + Outrage is available, but the fact that Intimidate grants it more setup opportunities means the revamp might not be that big. I'm against a full revamp because of that; not much has changed. QC step in.
  3. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

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    Outrage + Moxie was legal in BW1, its Outrage + Dragon Dance + Moxie was what BW2 made legal.
  4. jackm

    jackm

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    I'll change it to a revamp of the DD set.
  5. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    Change nature to Naive; the priority attacks you will face are physical and not special.

    AC Lum Berry and Dragon Gem.

    More teammates in AC: Forretress, Groudon (hazards and spin, basically), CB Terrakion and other hard-hitters, Deoxys-S for Dual Screens...

    Make sure this analysis actually has some material to read.

    [QC]1/3[/QC]
  6. trickroom

    trickroom
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    [​IMG]

    QC APPROVED 2/3

    Make sure this analysis actually has some material to read <-- this thing.

    Intimidate first slash, you beat Rayquaza with it even after taking Stealth Rock damage. It can allow you to survive things like one Ho-Oh Brave Bird.

    switch in on stuff like non-Stone Edge Groudon <--- Groudon will just Dragon Tail you out. Mention Intimidate helps annoy certain attackers instead, such as Intimidate makes Rock Polish Groudon hit significantly weaker, provided it lacks Swords Dance.

    Stone Edge mention for hitting Lugia a bit harder, allows you to get an OHKO sometimes.
    Mention what stops this set or gives it problem, Groudon, Defensive Arceus, Skarmory in rain and Lugia.
    This set must mention how the use of Rayquaza is really important for maximum effectiveness.

    ExtremeSpeed from Arceus will revenge kill you pretty easily after you are weakened by SR and LO damage, so mention how to stop it. Forretress and Skarmory share good typing synergy and they provide hazards to weaken Salamence checks.

    Mixed Rayquaza as a great partner for getting rid of usual checks. Draco Meteor slays Groudon and Fire Blast maims Skarmory. Draco Meteor + ES + SR = Dead Lugia/Arceus. Rayquaza does not always need to be the Dragon Dancer to pair with this set. It can be any version, even SD, Mixed, Mixed Dancer.
  7. polop

    polop
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    ctrl + f = Dragon Claw -> No results.

    I know Dragon Claw is really weak, but its reliable STAB that's not Outrage (or a move that doesn't lock you into a move and prevent you from switching). Its useful for those moments you have to kill an enemy Dragon-type (ex: a Giratina-O, Zekrom, Reshiram, Kyurem-W, Kyurem-B, Rayquaza) but there's still a Steel-type on the field that threatens your sweep. Its not as strong as Outrage, I don't want it to be slashed with it, but its strong enough to get the job done for sure.

    I think in AC mention of its merits works. Its not enough for its own slot IMO. Anyone else have opinions on this?

    An AC mention of Aqua Tail sounds cool too, seeing as its Salamence's strongest move against Skarmory in the rain.

    If your running Moxie its next to impossible to setup UNLESS you have Wobbufett support (well Dual Screens too but you already have that). A mention of that ought to be nice too.
  8. gookie

    gookie Administrator
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    [qc]3/3][/qc]
  9. melvni

    melvni
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    GP check. Good job on writing this. Just remember not to capitalize set names outside the normal conventions (like if the set name is something like Swords Dance which is always capitalized), to capitalize Speed, and to use XHKOes instead of XHKO's.
    Additions in Blue
    Subtractions in Red
    Comments in Purple

    Show Hide
    [SET]
    Name: Dragon Dance
    Move 1: Dragon Dance
    Move 2: Outrage
    Move 3: Earthquake
    Move 4: Fire Blast
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Intimidate / Moxie
    Nature: Naive
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Salamence's combination of speed Speed, ability, and typing allow it to be a potent sweeper, capable of swiftly setting up and stealing the opponen't opponent's momentum. Once it has set up, Salamence is nigh unstoppable due to its excellent coverage; this is augmented by its excellent base 100 speed Speed, which allows it to outspeed many of the common Uber scarfers Choice Scarf users at +1. Unfortunately, without a boost Salamence's inferior Attack becomes noticeable is noticeably lacking when compared to Uber behemoths like Groudon, Zekrom, and Rayquaza. The choice of ability will either help Salamence either get going or stay going; while Moxie enables Salamence to break through walls that would ordinarily be able to sponge its attacks, while Intimidate is immensely helpful while setting up. Without Intimidate, Salamence has an incredibly hard time setting up without Wobbuffet or dual screens support, but without Moxie it can be difficult to get put a full-fledged sweep in into action. Really, it's up to personal preference, although in general Intimidate tends to be more effective due to its utility.</p>

    <p>Due to Salamence's apparent inferiority in the this role compared to Rayquaza, many would choose to forgo running it run the latter if picking between the two. Because of this, the best way to utilize Dragon Dance Salamence is as a partner to Rayquaza. The reasoning behind this logic goes as follows; (change to colon) the opponent will rarely carry more than one hard check to the generic "Dragon Dancing Dragon/Flying-Type Dragon / Flying type"; this means that by carrying both Salamence and Rayquaza, one should be able to break can overwhelm this check by way of sheer pressure and force. Any variant of Rayquaza will do, really, but they all perform slightly different roles: Mixed mixed shreds Salamence's counters, Dragon Dance aims to get rid of its own checks (and, by extension, Salamence's), and Swords Dance works like a combination of the two.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Max speed Speed is incredibly important for Dragon Dance Salamence, as going lower will open you it up to all sorts of revenge killers at +1. This is especially important for beating Genesect; at +1 Attack, Salamence outspeeds and 2HKO's 2HKOes it on the switch while at +2&mdash;presumably attained by Moxie after a kill&mdash;, at which point Genesect could ordinarily come in for a revenge kill&mdash;Genesect is outsped and OHKO'd OHKOed. This is one of the biggest reasons to use Salamence over, say, Rayquaza. While Salamence lacks the raw mixed attack attacking power of our favorite meteorological serpent, its higher speed Speed means that it can assuredly avoid revenge kills from common scarfers Choice Scarf users like Genesect and Kyurem-W. Unfortunately for Salamence, its high speed Speed means nothing against priority, nor can its paltry bulk stand up to many of the powerful revenge killers that still outrun it at +1.</p>

    <p>Because of Within Salamence's diverse movepool, there are several alternate move choices that are viable. Because of their similar coverage, Brick Break and Earthquake are somewhat interchangeable; Brick Break allows Salamence to hit Chansey without locking itself into Outrage and to break Ferrothorn at +2 regardless of weather. It also hits Air Balloon Heatran which, though rare, is nonetheless a threat. Earthquake has more general utility, however, as it hits threats like Jirachi, Arceus-Steel, and Dialga harder. Stone Edge and Aqua Tail could be used to hit Lugia and Skarmory (under rain) hard, respectively. However, Salamence's necessity need for neutral coverage usually discourages this choice&mdash;no matter what one does, running one of them will cause certain walls to be able to counter Salamence with increased ease. Finally, Dragon Claw could be run over Outrage to pick off miscellaneous dragons Dragon-types that Salamence conveniently outspeeds. Unfortunately However, such a role is better left to a Choice Scarf set; Dragon Claw simply lacks the raw power that Dragon Dance Salamence requires to sweep.</p>

    <p>While Dragon Dance Salamence greatly appreciates the boost that Life Orb grants it, other items deserve mention due to their ability to enhance Salamence's ability to set up. Lum Berry allows Salamence to shrug off miscellaneous status; this can be a pivotal advantage when Salamence requires a free turn to set up or land an attack. Dragon Gem could also be used to get the ball rolling, due to the powerful Outrage that it grants Salamence (so powerful, in fact, that it OHKO's SDef OHKOes specially defensive Giratina at +0!) When running one of these items, it's still important to provide Salamence with plenty of opportunities to set up. Though it will be easier, getting a sweep going still requires near-perfect timing when using something as frail as Salamence.</p>

    <p>Due to its relative lack of offensive power, Salamence greatly appreciates hazards to facilitate its sweep. Deoxys-S is a great choice for this role setting these up, being able to provide both hazards and screens; especially when running Moxie, dual screens give Salamence the opportunities it needs to set up effectively. Forretress, Skarmory, and Groudon are also viable partners. Forretress and Skarmory have excellent defensive synergy with Salamence, being able to sponge Extremespeeds ExtremeSpeeds and scarfed Dragon-type attacks. Forretress also has the notable ability to spin, which is incredibly useful due to Salamence's frailty and weakness to Stealth Rock. Groudon powers up Fire Blast, as well as being able to take priority aimed at Salamence.</p>

    <p>When running Salamence, it's important to recognize that its lack of power means that it has several counters that need to be accounted for. Groudon can give this set major problems, especially if it's carrying Stone Edge. Wallceus, Skarmory in rain, and Lugia can all counter Salamence as well; Skarmory gets props for being in particular is one of the few things that can stall out a +2 Outrage, even after Stealth Rock. This is where carrying Rayquaza along with Salamence is helpful. When running Dragon Dance Salamence, a Mixed mixed, Swords Dance, or even Dragon Dance Rayquaza can come in immensely handy for dealing with these checks opponents; due to its ability to carry different coverage moves and sheer attacking power, all of the aforementioned threats mentioned above can be dealt with with relative ease.</p>


    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  10. jackm

    jackm

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    Thanks for the check! It's been implemented.
  11. Oglemi

    Oglemi gimme
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    [SET]
    name: Dragon Dance
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Outrage
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Fire Blast
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Intimidate / Moxie
    nature: Naive
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe


    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Salamence's combination of Speed, ability, and typing allow it to be a potent sweeper, capable of swiftly setting up and stealing the opponent's momentum. Once it has set up, Salamence is nigh unstoppable due to its excellent coverage; this is augmented by its excellent base 100 Speed, which allows it to outspeed many of the common Uber Choice Scarf users at +1. Unfortunately, without a boost Salamence's Attack is noticeably lacking when compared to Uber behemoths like Groudon, Zekrom, and Rayquaza. The choice of ability will help Salamence either get going or stay going; Moxie enables Salamence to break through walls that would ordinarily be able to sponge its attacks, while Intimidate is immensely helpful while setting up. Without Intimidate, Salamence has an incredibly hard time setting up without Wobbuffet or dual screens support, but without Moxie it can be difficult to put a full-fledged sweep into action. Really, it's up to personal preference, although in general Intimidate tends to be more effective due to its utility.</p>

    <p>Due to Salamence's apparent inferiority in this role to Rayquaza, many would choose to run the latter if picking between the two. Because of this, the best way to utilize Dragon Dance Salamence is as a partner to Rayquaza. The reasoning behind this logic goes as follows: the opponent will rarely carry more than one hard check to the generic "Dragon Dancing Dragon / Flying type"; by carrying both Salamence and Rayquaza, one can overwhelm this check by way of sheer pressure and force. Any variant of Rayquaza will do, really, but they all perform slightly different roles: mixed shreds Salamence's counters to pieces, Dragon Dance aims to get rid of its own checks (and, by extension, Salamence's), and Swords Dance works like a combination of the two.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Max Speed is incredibly important for Dragon Dance Salamence, as going lower will open it up to all sorts of revenge killers at +1. This is especially important for beating Genesect; at +1 Attack, Salamence outspeeds and 2HKOes it on the switch. At +2&mdash;presumably attained by Moxie after a kill&mdash;, at which point Genesect could ordinarily come in for a revenge kill&mdash;Genesect is outsped and OHKOed. This is one of the biggest reasons to use Salamence over, say, Rayquaza. While Salamence lacks the raw mixed attacking power of our favorite meteorological serpent, its higher Speed means that it can assuredly avoid revenge kills from common Choice Scarf users like Genesect and Kyurem-W. Unfortunately for Salamence, its high Speed means nothing against priority, nor can its paltry bulk stand up to many of the powerful revenge killers that still outrun it at +1.</p>

    <p>Within Salamence's diverse movepool, there are several alternate move choices that are viable. Because of their similar coverage, Brick Break and Earthquake are somewhat interchangeable; Brick Break allows Salamence to hit Chansey without locking itself into Outrage and to break Ferrothorn at +2 regardless of weather. It also hits Air Balloon Heatran which, though rare, is nonetheless a threat. Earthquake has more general utility, however, as it hits threats like Jirachi, Steel Arceus, and Dialga harder. Stone Edge and Aqua Tail could be used to hit Lugia and Skarmory (under rain) hard, respectively. However, Salamence's need for neutral coverage usually discourages this choice&mdash;no matter what one does, running one of them will cause certain walls to be able to counter Salamence with increased ease. Finally, Dragon Claw could be run over Outrage to pick off miscellaneous Dragon-types that Salamence conveniently outspeeds. However, such a role is better left to a Choice Scarf set; Dragon Claw simply lacks the raw power that Dragon Dance Salamence requires to sweep.</p>

    <p>While Dragon Dance Salamence greatly appreciates the boost that Life Orb grants it, other items deserve mention due to their ability to enhance Salamence's ability to set up. Lum Berry allows Salamence to shrug off miscellaneous status; this can be pivotal when Salamence requires a free turn to set up or land an attack. Dragon Gem could also be used to get the ball rolling, due to the powerful Outrage that it grants Salamence (so powerful, in fact, that it OHKOes specially defensive Giratina at +0!). When running one of these items, it's still important to provide Salamence with plenty of opportunities to set up. Though it will be easier, getting a sweep going still requires near-perfect timing when using something as frail as Salamence.</p>

    <p>Due to its relative lack of offensive power, Salamence greatly appreciates hazards to facilitate its sweep. Deoxys-S is a great choice for setting these up, being able to provide both hazards and screens; especially when running Moxie, dual screens give Salamence the opportunities it needs to set up effectively. Forretress, Skarmory, and Groudon are also viable partners. Forretress and Skarmory have excellent defensive synergy with Salamence, being able to sponge ExtremeSpeeds and Scarf Dragon-type attacks. Forretress also has the notable ability to spin, which is incredibly useful due to Salamence's frailty and weakness to Stealth Rock. Groudon powers up Fire Blast, as well as being able to take priority aimed at Salamence.</p>

    <p>When running Salamence, it's important to recognize that its lack of power means that it has several counters that need to be accounted for. Groudon can give this set major problems, especially if it's carrying Stone Edge. Wallceus, Skarmory in rain, and Lugia can all counter Salamence as well; Skarmory in particular is one of the few things that can stall out a +2 Outrage, even after Stealth Rock. This is where carrying Rayquaza along with Salamence is helpful. When running Dragon Dance Salamence, a mixed, Swords Dance, or even Dragon Dance Rayquaza can come in immensely handy for dealing with these opponents; due to its ability to carry different coverage moves and sheer attacking power, all of the threats mentioned above can be dealt with with relative ease.</p>


    [gp]2/2[/gp]
  12. jackm

    jackm

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    Oglemi's check has been implemented. This is ready to be uploaded.

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