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Salamence (Moxie + Update)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by AccidentalGreed, Dec 2, 2011.

  1. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    So. I'm going to take on this whole monster all by myself (thanks Bloo), but there shouldn't be too many circumstantial changes outside the addition of three sets and editing here and there. Moxie Salamence IS a big deal otherwise.

    Status: Writing

    QC Approvals (3/3): (PK Gaming) (Iconic) (Pocket)

    GP Approvals (2/2): (Sirndpt) (Engineer Pikachu)
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    [​IMG]
    I hate you all because you banned me.

    [Overview]

    <p>Salamence possesses an enormous offensive movepool, which, when combined with its fantastic offensive stats of base 135 Attack and 110 Special Attack, has the potential to tear through even the most prepared of teams. Despite not changing very much since DPP, Salamence still has all the tools needed to pose a major threat to the opponent, whether it be early-, mid-, or late-game. While Salamence does face competition from new threats such as Latios, Haxorus, and Hydreigon, it has its advantages over each of them.</p>

    <p>Perhaps Salamence's greatest advantage over its competition is its versatility. Due to its ability to go physical, special, or even mixed between various sets, true counters to Salamence remain few and far between. Its defensive capabilities are not to be overlooked either. 95 / 80 / 80 defenses aren't too shabby, and in conjunction with reliable recovery in Roost and Intimidate to weaken physical attacks, Salamence is one of the most durable sweepers available. A purely defensive set is also more than viable due to these traits, which can utilize a new move in Dragon Tail in order to phaze enemies and rack up entry hazard damage. Overall, Salamence remains one of the most dangerous Pokemon in OU, and has the potential to change the course of any match in the blink of an eye.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Dragon Dance
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Outrage / Dragon Claw
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Fire Blast / Roost
    item: Life Orb / Lum Berry
    nature: Naughty / Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While many threats from previous generations struggle to adapt to BW, Salamence's established Dragon Dance set continues to be a force to be reckoned with. Dragon Dance is obviously the foundation of this set; it boosts both Salamence's Attack and Speed by one stage, making it not only more powerful, but also much more difficult to revenge kill. Outrage is Salamence's primary attack; while the locking effect and subsequent confusion might seem unappealing, the attack's 100% accuracy, great neutral coverage, and high Base Power are devastating when boosted by STAB and possibly Life Orb. After a boost, Outrage will OHKO everything that doesn't resist it with the exception of only the most defensive of Pokemon. However, because a Salamence locked into Outrage is much easier to revenge kill, Dragon Claw is a viable alternative, although there is a significant drop in power. Earthquake has great synergy with Outrage, as it deals with the Steel-types that resist Dragon-type attacks, namely Heatran, Jirachi, and Metagross. Fire Blast rounds off the set with perfect neutral coverage, and gives Salamence a method of dealing with Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Scizor, among others.<p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>As far as abilities are concerned, there is no universally preferred choice. Intimidate gives Salamence more opportunities to set up in the face of resisted physical attacks, and sometimes neutral ones. Moxie, however, has the benefit of stacking more Attack boosts after Salamence gains a kill, making it even more powerful and foiling the opponent's efforts to use death fodder. If Moxie is given the nod, Dragon Dance is incompatible with Outrage, making Dragon Claw the only other viable STAB move. Keep in mind that a +1 Outrage is approximately 12% more powerful than a +2 Dragon Claw, so it'll take some time and kills for Dragon Claw to match Outrage's immediate power.</p>

    <p>The EVs and nature given maximize both Speed and power, and allow Salamence toat the very worsttie with opposing base 100s. The reason why an Attack-boosting nature is preferred over a Speed-boosting one is because there is little of note that Salamence can outrun with the extra Speed. Additionally, Choice Scarf users that might be able to outrun +1 neutral-natured Salamence, such as Hydreigon, Haxorus, and Darmanitan, also commonly run neutral natures of their own. Roost is also an option over Fire Blast if Pokemon such as Scizor, Bronzong, Skarmory, and Ferrothorn do not overly threaten your team, as it allows Salamence to restore the inevitable passive damage inflicted by Stealth Rock, sandstorm, and Life Orb recoil. Keep in mind that if running Roost over Fire Blast, a Jolly or Adamant nature should be used.<p>

    <p>Life Orb gives this set the power that it needs to be such a devastating threat. With it, Salamence's attacks receive a 30% boost, ensuring many important KOs after a Dragon Dance, such as Jirachi with Earthquake, Ferrothorn with Fire Blast, and Blissey with Outrage. However, because of the massive amounts of residual damage Salamence will be taking from the combination of sandstorm, Stealth Rock, and Life Orb, there is always the option of running Lum Berry, Leftovers, or even Yache Berry as the item. Lum Berry has the most use out of the three, mainly because it nullifies attempts at stopping Salamence with status, a scenario that is common with Pokemon that Salamence can't KO immediately, such as Chansey and Cresselia. Lum Berry can also give Salamence an opportunity to gain another boost or 2HKO bulkier opponents, making it even harder to revenge kill for simple Choice Scarf Pokemon. Leftovers negates sandstorm and hail damage, and heals lost health in other weathers, giving it more leeway in setting up and attacking. Finally, Yache Berry allows Salamence to survive certain Ice-type attacks that would otherwise destroy it, most notably from Rotom-W, Weavile, and Mamoswine, and either take the opportunity to set up another Dragon Dance or KO the foe.</p>

    <p>As previously stated, Dragon Dance Salamence's biggest issue is its vulnerability to residual damage. The issue of Stealth Rock damage can easily be fixed by employing a Rapid Spin user, such as Starmie, Forretress, or Donphan, on your team. Each of these Pokemon also offer additional benefits, with Starmie offering offensive support, while Forretress and Donphan can sponge attacks and utilize entry hazards. Eliminating sandstorm and hail also helps decrease the amount of damage Salamence takes each turn. Using automatic weather inducers of your own easily fixes this issue, though keep in mind that using Drizzle Politoed will greatly weaken Fire Blast. At the same time, rain opens up an opportunity for Salamence to use Hydro Pump for physical walls, though it won't be as powerful against the Steel-types previously mentioned, especially Ferrothorn and Scizor. If the prospect of fighting in weather wars do not appeal to you, you may also consider using Sunny Day Heatran or Rain Dance Starmie so the opponent isn't so fixated on keeping his or her weather inducer alive.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Classic MixMence
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Fire Blast
    move 3: Brick Break / Earthquake
    move 4: Roost
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Intimidate
    nature: Rash / Naive
    evs: 100 Atk / 176 SpA / 232 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While other sets attempt to sweep or break through the opponent's entire team, this set aims to break down defensive Pokemon and wreak as much havoc as possible on various teams. Draco Meteor is the crux of the set; in addition to OHKOing most non-Steel-types not named Blissey, Chansey, or Tyranitar, it can surprise switch-ins that expect to wall the Dragon Dance variant, such as Hippowdon and Slowbro. Fire Blast is the next staple, which prevents Skarmory, Forretress, Scizor, and Ferrothorn from walling Salamence. Even after Draco Meteor's Special Attack drop, Fire Blast OHKOes physically defensive variants of the former two, and also 2HKOes Ferrothorn. Of course, if Fire Blast's lack of accuracy is discouraging, Salamence can still use the more reliable Flamethrower, but it will miss out on the aforementioned KOs without prior damage.</p>

    <p>The decision on the third move comes down to which Pokemon are more of a threat to Salamence's team. It is recommended that Salamence uses Brick Break if the 2HKO against Blissey (and Chansey, with prior damage) is vital; otherwise, they can stall Salamence out simply by healing and using status moves. Brick Brick also ensures a 2HKO on Heatran, and an OHKO against all variants of Tyranitar after Stealth Rock damage. If OHKOing Heatran is necessary or Jirachi poses a problem, Earthquake can replace Brick Break. Of course, with a weakness to Stealth Rock, Life Orb recoil, and potential sandstorm damage stacking up each turn, Salamence loves having a way to heal itself. Roost gives Salamence the ability to do so, in addition to granting it more opportunities to switch in and continue weakening teams.</p>

    <p>Notice that there are two separate sets featuring this type of Salamence; the one you are reading now is the Classic MixMence, while the other is named New MixMence. As denoted by their separation, both sets play differently: while this set aims to switch in and deal damage many times with Intimidate and Roost, the other should be used more aggressively. If you're looking for raw power and don't mind resorting to Outrage, consult the New MixMence set.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>This set can be EVed in many different ways. The suggested EV spread of 100 Atk / 176 SpA / 232 Spe Rash gives Salamence great overall attacking power, while allowing it to outrun everything up to neutral-natured Haxorus. The 100 Attack EVs let Salamence's Brick Break always OHKO 252/0 Tyranitar after Stealth Rock damage, and 2HKO both Blissey and Chansey after either Draco Meteor or Stealth Rock damage. The Speed EVs allow Salamence to outpace max speed Adamant Haxorus, but leaves it outsped by the likes of Hydreigon and Timid Rotom-A, as well as all other base 100 Speed Pokemon that run Speed-boosting natures. For this reason, an EV spread of 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Naive is viable, but the loss of power will be sorely missed.</p>

    <p>Prediction is often key when using this set. While Draco Meteor is very destructive, it will still do little damage to Pokemon such as Blissey, Tyranitar, and most Steel-types. Meanwhile, even with Roost, Salamence cannot afford to take too much residual damage from switching into Stealth Rock, especially when Life Orb recoil and sandstorm damage are added to the equation. Furthermore, once Draco Meteor is used once, its power (as well as Fire Blast's) drops significantly, which often forces Salamence to switch out. This situation applies mostly to Steel-type Pokemon that can take Brick Break, including defensive Jirachi and Metagross. Hitting a switch-in with the most appropriate move, whether it be Draco Meteor, Fire Blast, or Brick Break, will not only help in eliminating an opponent's Pokemon faster, but also spare Salamence from future residual damage, ensuring that it survives for longer. Offensive Pokemon with either Volt Switch or U-turn, notably Rotom-W and Scizor, can help Salamence switch in safely; they can also revenge kill most threats that try to set up on a -2 Salamence. Rapid Spin support, preferably from an offensive Starmie or Donphan, ensures that Salamence loses as little health as possible when switching in. Although Ninetales may seem like a seem like an odd teammate due to the Stealth Rock weakness it shares, pairing Salamence with it is a considerable option due to the sun it summons, which greatly helps Salamence break through Steel-types by boosting the power of Fire Blast. Ninetales also keeps other weathers at bay, which Salamence appreciates as hail and sandstorm chip away at its health, while rain decreases the power of its Fire Blast.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Outrage
    move 2: Dragon Claw
    move 3: Fire Blast / Brick Break
    move 4: Earthquake / Brick Break
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Moxie
    nature: Naughty / Adamant / Naive / Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Feast your eyes on what may possibly be the most vicious Choice Scarf user in OU, popularized by the release of its Dream World ability, Moxie. Much like other Moxie users, Salamence has many opportunities to do its job; many opponents often switch in their least useful Pokemon to take incoming assaults, or attempt to set up a speed boost in preparation for a sweep. These plans will backfire, however, as Salamence gains an Attack boost for each kill it gets, punishing the opponent and forcing him to reconsider his strategy. Furthermore, Salamence's traits, including powerful Dragon-type STAB moves and high offensive stats, enable it to perform more consistently than its competitors. After the Choice Scarf and an Attack boost from Moxie factored in, Salamence will effectively have a Dragon Dance boost.</p>

    <p>Outrage is the main move on this set due to its high Base Power, STAB boost, and excellent neutral coverage. Dragon Claw should be used either for late-game sweeping or when Salamence cannot afford to lock itself into Outrage, for example when physical walls or Steel-types are abound. The last two moveslots depend on which targets Salamence needs to hit. Although Fire Blast seems odd on a physically based set, this is Salamence's only good option against Skarmory, Forretress, and Ferrothorn, all of whom take any other move comfortably. Earthquake is preferred in the last slot because it provides coverage against other Steel-types, most notably Heatran and Jirachi, and also takes advantage of the set's physical power. If these Steel-types are of no concern, Brick Break can be used to do more damage to Tyranitar and Ferrothorn.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Simply maximize Salamence's Attack and Speed to get the best of its attacking and revenge killing capabilities. The nature of choice comes down to which targets Salamence needs to outspeed and destroy. Either a Naughty or a Naive nature should be used if running Fire Blast, but if not, use either Adamant or Jolly. As explained in the Dragon Dance set, Attack-boosting natures are generally preferred to Speed-boosting ones as the only significant Pokemon Salamence loses to are +1 Jolly Haxorus, Hydreigon, and Darmanitan. If the possibility of tying with other +1 base 100s—especially opposing Salamence and Volcarona—is important to your team, you can use a Speed-boosting nature, but the loss of offense might result in a few lost KOs, most notably an OHKO against 4/0 Rotom-A, or a clean 2HKO against physically defensive Politoed. It should be noted that even with a neutral Speed nature, Salamence outruns up to Timid Choice Scarf Rotom-A, another common Choice Scarf user.</p>

    <p>Other attacks to consider are Stone Edge and Fire Fang. With Stone Edge, Salamence is guaranteed to OHKO bulky Volcarona at full health, a feat which Outrage cannot achieve without prior damage, and even then, Outrage risks a Flame Body burn. Stone Edge also offers a harder hit on Flying- and Ice-types, but most of these threats are likely to be KOed by Outrage after Stealth Rock damage anyway. Fire Fang is an option over Fire Blast for two reasons: it is stronger against Ferrothorn, and benefits from Moxie Attack boosts. Outside of these benefits, though, Fire Blast is generally superior due to the specially weak Skarmory and Forretress.</p>

    <p>Salamence doesn't need support as far as revenge killing is concerned, but when it comes down to sweeping or cleaning up, Steel-types and physical walls must be eliminated to take full advantage of Outrage's sheer power. As Steel-types are more common than random physical walls, Magnezone is a great go-to partner because of its ability to trap and kill most Steel-types. Alternatively, you can employ offensive Pokemon that can lure or outright beat these threats with Fire-, Ground-, or Fighting-type attacks, examples being Infernape, Terrakion, Jirachi, and Heatran. This set appreciates Rapid Spin support too, as it switches very often and will otherwise get worn down by Stealth Rock quickly. Some Pokemon to consider for this role are Forretress, who also offers entry hazard support, and Starmie, who can break down potential checks and counters with its great coverage.</p>

    [SET]
    name: New MixMence
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Outrage
    move 3: Fire Blast
    move 4: Earthquake / Brick Break
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Naive / Rash
    evs: 64 Atk / 192 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is a more aggressive variant of the previous MixMence set; it trades survivability for the ability to slash through balanced and offensive teams alike. Although the lack of Roost might seem daunting, Outrage enables Salamence to bring down more threats, expanding the list of targets Salamence can safely attack. This Salamence should ideally aim to KO a physical wall with Draco Meteor, then attack the next target with a boosted Outrage. Additionally, even after Draco Meteor's Special Attack drop, this Salamence is harder to set up on due to the threat of Outrage. Keep in mind, however, that as this Salamence has no means of recovery, it functions best as an early-game battering ram that clears the way for its other teammates to sweep.</p>

    <p>Due to the sheer power of Salamence's dual STAB moves, only a few dedicated walls can hope to survive its assaults. Fire Blast is mandatory as several Steel-types, especially Scizor, Skarmory, and Ferrothorn, can otherwise easily switch into Draco Meteor and retaliate. Earthquake is also a requirement to super effectively hit Jirachi and Heatran, both of whom take Fire Blast more comfortably than Earthquake. Brick Break, however, can take this moveslot so Salamence can dent Blissey, Tyranitar, and Air Balloon Heatran without having to resort to Outrage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Unlike its sister set, New MixMence has the option of using either of its abilities—Moxie is illegal with Roost. With the provided EV spread and one Attack boost, Outrage grabs the guaranteed OHKO on Blissey, in addition to numerous other defensive Pokemon. Intimidate shouldn't be discounted too easily, however, mainly because it allows Salamence more opportunities to switch in and wreak havoc. The Attack boosts provided by Moxie might also prove ineffective against teams packing many faster foes, although the same might apply to Intimidate's Attack drop. Therefore, take each abilities' benefits and downsides into account so Salamence can perform effectively to your team's liking.</p>

    <p>There are many variations to this type of Salamence, so the nature and EVs come down to personal preference. Maximum Speed investment and a Naive nature lets Salamence tie with opposing base 100s, including Jirachi and Celebi, making it much harder to revenge kill. The 64 EVs in Attack ensure a KO on 252/252+ Blissey with Outrage if either Salamence's Attack is boosted once (via Moxie), or Blissey has been damaged by Draco Meteor on the switch-in. The rest is poured into Special Attack to juice up Draco Meteor and Fire Blast. If you are not concerned with threats between the base 95-100 Speed range, you can consider using a spread of 64 Atk / 228 SpA / 216 Spe with a Naive nature for more Special Attack and the ability to outrun maximum Speed Gliscor and Darmanitan. Salamence can become even more specially offensive by utilizing a spread of 64 Atk / 206 SpA / 240 Spe with a Rash nature, which also allows it to outrun neutral-natured maximum Speed Hydreigon.<p>

    <p>Teammates mentioned in the Classic MixMence set by and large also apply to this set. Due to this set's tendency to go down quickly, it performs best when paired with other offensive Pokemon in need of Salamence's wallbreaking skills. For instance, the likes of Metagross might find it difficult to get past dedicated walls such as Skarmory and Jellicent, most of whom Salamence can weaken or KO easily with the appropriate move. In addition to boasting significant power, Metagross is also a decent switch-in to priority moves aimed at Salamence, such as Bullet Punch and Ice Shard. Magnezone is also highly recommended for its ability to eliminate Steel-types, which will allow Salamence to freely spam Draco Meteor and/or Outrage.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Outrage
    move 2: Dragon Claw
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Fire Blast / Fire Fang
    item: Choice Band
    nature: Naughty / Adamant / Naive / Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>No matter how tempting the mixed, Choice Scarf, or Dragon Dance sets might seem in comparison, a Choice Band set is a still a possibility due to Salamence's high Attack and Speed stats. Although Salamence may seem outclassed by other Choice Band Dragon-types, its higher Speed enables it to face off against targets that Haxorus and Dragonite cannot outrun. Salamence will therefore be free to spam Outrage against a greater range of targets, including Hydreigon, Ninetales, Timid Rotom-A, and the main Choice Band Dragon-type itself, Haxorus. Like the Choice Scarf set, Choice Band Salamence now has the ability to immediately break through Pokemon without the need to take recoil damage or set up beforehand. With Choice Band, however, Salamence's goal is to break through defensive Pokemon, as most of them cannot switch in and comfortably take two Outrages. Additionally, unlike the Choice Scarf set, Salamence can afford to spam Outrage early-game in order to decimate unsuspecting switch-ins. All other moves hit targets that Salamence can't afford to use Outrage against, with the usual issue of Fire Fang versus Fire Blast. After the appropriate checks and counters have been accounted for, Dragon Claw should be used to sweep late-game and avoid confusion.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>This set can fully utilize either of Salamence's two abilities; while Moxie is pretty much a requirement on the Choice Scarf set due to its lack of power otherwise, Choice Band Salamence faces no such problem. Moxie is still exceptionally usable since Salamence can easily acquire a kill and more Attack boosts; Intimidate, however, should still be considered because the Attack drop helps it switch in more easily and fire off attacks more easily, which makes up somewhat for its lack of defensive presence. As a bonus, Intimidate Salamence can run Aqua Tail to beat bulky Ground-types and take advantage of rain—Moxie Salamence cannot, as Aqua Tail is incompatible with Moxie.</p>

    <p>An Attack-boosting nature is preferred to a Speed-boosting one, as Salamence still outspeeds most threats and greatly appreciates the extra Attack points. Specifically, the added power lets Salamence secure an OHKO on 4/0 Multiscale Dragonite. Naive or Jolly Salamence still has a fair chance of doing so, but the decrease in power will be evident, especially against the likes of Chansey and Porygon2.</p>

    <p>Eliminating Steel-types and physical walls isn't as much a requirement for this Salamence as it is for the Choice Scarf variant, as a Choice Band Outrage rips off a huge portion of their health. Nevertheless, weakening these threats before going all-out with Outrage is recommended so Salamence can stay in service for as long as possible. The same teammates to get rid of Steel-types still apply, with Magnezone being a top pick, and teammates with Fighting-, Fire- or Ground-type moves being good choices as well. If you intend on sweeping with Salamence late-game, then eliminating or weakening faster Pokemon should be a priority. An easy way to thwart attempts at revenge killing is to provide Salamence with paralysis support from the likes of Jirachi, Rotom-W, and Blissey.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Wish
    move 2: Protect / Roost
    move 3: Dragon Tail
    move 4: Flamethrower
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Intimidate
    nature: Bold / Relaxed
    evs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While usually regarded as an offensive Pokemon, Salamence can also switch roles and become an excellent team supporter. Boasting decent defenses (by OU standards), Intimidate, reliable recovery, five useful resistances, decent Speed, and a phazing move in STAB Dragon Tail, Salamence can check a wide variety of Pokemon, such as Conkeldurr and Scizor, while simultaneously providing team support thanks to Wish. In order to heal reliably, Salamence needs to use either Protect or Roost in addition to Wish. Protect allows Salamence to avoid being hit the turn after Wish is used, guaranteeing that Salamence's health will be restored. On the other hand, Roost allows Salamence to heal itself without waiting an extra turn to do so, which can possibly save it from an otherwise fatal hit. Roost also has the advantage of eliminating Salamence's Rock- and Ice-type weaknesses for one turn, allowing it to stall out weaker Ice Beams and Stone Edges. Salamence's final two moves grant it coverage and utility, and take advantage of its amazing offensive stats. Dragon Tail forces out stat boosters such as Scrafty and Conkeldurr, while also doing decent damage to most targets. Finally, Flamethrower can be used to remove Pokemon such as Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Skarmory.<p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The option of whether to use a Relaxed or Bold nature is relatively trivial. While Bold allows Salamence to Speed tie with other minimum Speed base 100s, Relaxed slightly increases the power of Dragon Tail. Should you run a Bold nature, it is advised that Salamence runs 16 Speed EVs to outspeed Adamant Breloom, allowing it to hit Breloom with Flamethrower before being crippled by Spore. More EVs can be invested to outrun specific threats, such as positive-natured max Speed Tyranitar or Scizor, both of which require 32 EVs and 64 EVs, respectively. Keep in mind that investing an extraneous amount of EVs in Speed will greatly detract from its bulk.<p>

    <p>This Salamence should be used alongside Spikes, as it forces many opponents out and hence racks up a lot of residual damage. In the same regard, Salamence hates switching into Stealth Rock, as the loss of health seriously hampers its walling potential. Forretress stands out of the crowd as a teammate that not only provides Salamence with both forms of support, but also has great synergy with Salamence. Of course, Forretress is only one of many excellent teammates to Salamence; any other Pokemon that can assist with entry hazards or that appreciates the Wishes Salamence can pass will more often than not be a good partner. Be sure that these Pokemon also have decent defensive synergy with Salamence, or you'll be better off with another Wish user, such as Jirachi, Latias, or Blissey.<p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Salamence has numerous additional options at its disposal, and while all of them are usable, there is usually another Pokemon that can do it better. Choice Specs Salamence is surprisingly powerful, thanks to its base 110 Special Attack stat and moves such as Draco Meteor, Hydro Pump, and Fire Blast. Theoretically, Salamence can even differentiate itself from other similar attackers with its immunity to Ground-type attacks and Intimidate letting it switch in more often. However, with the introduction of Hydreigon, who gives this set much competition, Choice Specs Salamence should only be used either for its two base Speed points over Hydreigon, or for the sheer surprise factor. Latias and Latios also give Choice Specs Salamence some competition due to its higher Speed, Special Attack, and lack of a Stealth Rock weakness.</p>

    <p>In addition to Choice items, there are several unique ways in which Salamence can take advantage of Dragon Dance. First and foremost, a bulky Dragon Dance set is viable, taking advantage of Salamence's decent bulk in combination with Roost and Intimidate. The goal of this set is to accumulate multiple Dragon Dances thanks to defensive investment, Roost off any damage taken, and then sweep. However, Salamence must rely on Fire Blast or Earthquake as its secondary attacking move, each of which has its own disadvantages. Dragonite, on the other hand, not only has the more reliable Fire Punch, but also boasts Multiscale, which is generally superior to Intimidate when trying to accumulate multiple boosts. A Dragon Dance set with Draco Meteor is also usable, as it allows Salamence to unleash a powerful STAB move without locking itself into Outrage. Draco Meteor also has the advantage of doing serious damage to physical walls such as Slowbro, Hippowdon, and Gliscor. Of course, this does have several downsides. For one, Fire Blast cannot be used after Draco Meteor, or it will do laughable damage to even the likes of Skarmory and Bronzong. If Earthquake is used over Fire Blast, Pokemon such as Skarmory, Bronzong, and Ferrothorn become much more capable of walling Salamence, meaning more team support is needed. Lastly, going mixed means Salamence must shift either Attack or Speed EVs into Special Attack in order to have a respectably powerful Draco Meteor, and whichever the choice, those EVs will be missed.</p>

    <p>Another way to make use of the Attack boosts Moxie offers is by running a mixed attacking set with Substitute. Often, many opponents will assume Salamence is holding a Choice item with Moxie due to its lack of Intimidate, prompting them to switch in their Steel-type to stop any incoming Dragon-type attacks. Salamence can take advantage of this opportunity by using Substitute, then using the appropriate move to take out the switch-in. There is little that can take Salamence's boosted attacks, especially with Substitute easing prediction. Life Orb would obviously be counterproductive on such a set due to not only Substitute, but also the lack of Roost, which is incompatible with Moxie. Therefore, items such as Dragon Gem, Draco Plate, or even Leftovers are viable alternatives so that Salamence can retain as much health as possible.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Because of Salamence's fantastic stats, offensive typing, and enormous movepool, countering all sets at once is virtually impossible. However, there are some Pokemon that come close. Pokemon that can switch in on the Dragon Dance set and survive a boosted hit include those with great physical bulk, such as Porygon2, Hippowdon, Cloyster, and several others, who can attack back with their respective Ice-type moves. Quagsire ignores Salamence's stat boosts thanks to Unaware, and Curse variants can use the Dragon Dance set as setup fodder with Curse. However, if Salamence is running a set with Draco Meteor, this tactic can backfire, as Unaware ignores the Special Attack drops from Draco Meteor as well. Cresselia is also a good bet, and much like the aforementioned threats, she can switch in on nearly any set thanks to her incredible defenses and either cripple Salamence with Thunder Wave or inflict massive damage with Ice Beam. However, Cresselia is 2HKOed by +1 Outrage and takes a minimum of 80% from the combination of Draco Meteor and Outrage from MixMence, meaning she is not completely safe.</p>

    <p>Steel-types in general are often the first Pokemon to go to, as they are the only Pokemon that resist the powerful Outrages and Draco Meteors that Dragon-types are known for. Choice Band Scizor can switch into any move bar Fire Blast or Fire Fang and deal over 60% with Bullet Punch. Metagross, Ferrothorn, Jirachi, Forretress, Skarmory, and other defensive Steel-types can all sponge an Outrage or Draco Meteor and retaliate accordingly. It should be noted that if rain is on the field, both Skarmory and Bronzong become hard counters, as a neutered Fire Blast will not be powerful enough to defeat them so long as they are healthy. Overall, forcing a Salamence to lock itself into Outrage should never be one's main way to counter it, but it remains a good last resort.<p>

    <p>Revenge killing is often a common method of dealing with Salamence, as defeating it without losing a Pokemon either requires lots of luck or good prediction, neither of which should be completely depended on. Terrakion, Landorus, and Latios all have a higher base Speed than Salamence, and can revenge kill Salamence especially if using a Choice Scarf. Weavile and Mamoswine are both excellent users of Ice Shard and therefore can revenge kill even a +6 Salamence as long as it doesn't have a Yache Berry. However, neither can risk switching in on a Fire Blast or Draco Meteor. Donphan is also capable of using Ice Shard, and can withstand a boosted Outrage as well. However, Donphan's Ice Shard is incredibly weak, and Donphan has other flaws of its own.</p>
  2. cartercr

    cartercr

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    Any set with Moxie should run Fire Fang instead of Fire Blast. That way the move is boosted by Moxie. I've been running the basic DD Salamence on my team, and if I can get the DD up, they just watch their team fall to pieces.
  3. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Thing is, even with the Moxie boost, Fire Fang's power output isn't as powerful as Fire Blast's on certain physically defensive targets. I would be obliged to give it a mention on the Choice sets, though, if it actually works on them. Then again, any Fire-type move finds extremely limited use either way.
  4. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Boss revamp, AccidentalGreed! You really covered all of your bases, so there's really little to suggest. A part of me feels that Intimidate is a good enough ability to be even used on the Choice sets, being able to tank a Lucario's ESpeed / Toxicroak's Sucker Punch better for instance. If it doesn't deserve a slash with Moxie, you could still mention it in the AC imo.

    I also have a recommendation for the Classic and Moxie MixMence. I suggest 140 Atk / 136 SAtk / 232 Spe, Rash Nature for Classic. This lets it outrun Adamant Haxorus, which I always view as an important threshold Speed tier to overcome.

    In a similar vein, I also suggest 64 Atk / 212 SAtk / 232 Spe, Rash Nature for Mix. I do not suggest this spread over the main MoxieMixMence spread, but the one listed on AC. I think its safe to assume that Pokemon below base 100 Speed doesn't have positive speed nature. The spread provides more SAtk.

    EDIT: Lum Berry should be slashed with Life Orb on the Dragon Dance set.
  5. Aerodactyl Legend

    Aerodactyl Legend

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    When it all comes together, it looks good. Nothing much to suggest but will back Pocket up in the small mention of Intimidate being viable on the Choice sets (especially the Band).

    On the Band set, Adamant is for the most immediate power. Even if you don't slash it, it should be mentioned in AC.
  6. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Sorry for not responding to the thread sooner! It's unusual of me, so will do so now:

    Both abilities are perfectly viable on the Choice Band set, having tested with Outrage + Intimidate and Moxie being a great snowball ability in general.

    Alright, but first, I'd like to challenge the spreads by saying Hydreigon is a better target to outrun for obvious reasons, and that 16 EVs from Speed looks like borderline Speed Creep.

    Now what was I thinking?

    Seeing RaikouLover's post in the previous thread tells me all I need to know, and an Attack-beneficial is generally a good alternative (if not main) option on this set. Therefore, I should list Adamant and Naughty (that shashitis though).
  7. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Err, Speed Creep? I am pretty sure with Rash Nature, 232 Spe gives its Speed 294, which is just enough to outrun Haxorus :o

    The reason why I usually don't bother outrunning Hydreigon is b/c a good portion of them is Scarfed, and it is just not as common a threat as Haxorus.

    Thanks, AG :d
  8. yee

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    Why not outrun Hydreigon when it's only 8 more EVs? At that point you're at 240 so you might as well max it. I also have a beef with running 140 atk EVs when youre only physical attack is Brick Break. The beef of the set comes from Draco/Flame and IMO if that's there only to 2HKO Chansey I would still rather just wear it down than lose all that spA to instantly threaten a 2HKO.
  9. Pocket

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    Hmm, true. It's just that Haxorus is a MUCH more prominent threat than Hydreigon, which I rarely see. On a mixed attacker, whose offensive EVs are spread thin already, you want to be pretty frugal with your Speed EVs. Base 100 Spe mons that max Speed are usually coupled with a +Spe Nature (except for perhaps Celebi), so I wouldn't bother maxing it.

    You're right, yee, about the 140 Atk EVs. With those Atk EVs it has a large chance in 2-shotting Blissey without Rocks, but it's not worth the heavy investment. 100 Atk EVs is sufficient, imo, as it allows Mixmence to 2HKO Chansey after SR + 1 layer of Spikes damage. However, if that's too situational, then it can also settle with 64 Atk EVs, like the New MixMence, to score a min. 88% on Max HP TTar, while also scoring a 2HKO on Blissey with Rocks.

    Here's the revised alternative EV spread for Classic MixMence after weighing in yee's insightful input: 100 Atk / 176 SpA / 232 Spe. The New MixMence could go with 64 Atk / 204 SpA / 240 Spe to outrun Hydreigon (alt. spread).

    Under Teammates and Counters for the MixMence sets, it should be noted that Jirachi under the rain is tough to beat without Earthquake. Also Chansey can survive any 2 hits from Mixmence's unboosted move even accounting SR; Spikes support is necessary.

    I begin to feel that Naughty / Adamant is viable on the Dragon Dance set. Other than Speed-tieing other base speed 100 mons before the DD boost, there is really little use in going Naive / Jolly. There's no Scarfers / revenge killers that outruns +1 Adamant Salamence but not +1 Jolly Salamence; Adamant Salamence is just barely faster than Scarf Rotom-W. At worst you'll Speed-tie with lead Deoxys-S that invested enough Speed to outrun Scarf Rotom-W.
  10. ssbbm

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    On the Defensive Set, wouldn't you want to run 36 Speed EVs so as to outspeed max speed Scizor?
  11. AccidentalGreed

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    Actually, I'd go as far as attempting to outrun max Speed Breloom, since those certainly exist (and isn't as creepy as Max Speed Ttar because Breloom is in the base 70 range rather than the niche base 61) and Salamence won't mind a few EVs taken away due to Intimidate and invested bulk, which is still relatively high despite EV drops.

    I'll go run some calcs and test out Pocket's suggestions as soon as I get a solid keyboard and stationary.
  12. Ditto

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    I'm pretty sure you can't Outrage and DD on MoxieMence. I am guessing that Intimidate is going to be the first ability listed for the DD set and Dragon Claw with Moxie, but mentioning just in case.
  13. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Yeah, I'll mention those things in the writeup, which is why there isn't a specified ability on the DD set.
  14. Lord of Bays

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    I'm running a Moxie DD Salamence on one of my teams, and I can attest to just how powerful it is. Unless you are playing a very hardcore stall teams, something WILL go down eventually (especially if you have plenty of hazards. I just have Rocks) and then it's all downhill from there.
  15. complete legitimacy

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    Just a nitpick on Classic MixMence. I find that the speed is enough, but you must stay at that speed. I don't have access to a calculator atm, but I would suggest a tad more investment in Attack. The main thing you carry Brick Break for (in this meta) is Tyranitar. However, I sometimes just barely miss the KO with it, doing about 98% at the minimum with an LO and 116 Atk. Maybe increase by 12-16, whatever the calculation comes out to.
  16. Aerodactyl Legend

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    Did calcs. Got 91.1% - 107.9% against the standard Tyranitar (252 Hp, neutral nature) and 96.8% - 114.7% against Choice Band (156 Hp, Adamant). You'll need 252 Evs total for the former and 160 Evs total for the latter to beat them guaranteed.
  17. elDino

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    Oh just pointing out that it's Naive not Naïve. Also mention Draco Plate somewhere on the DD set just because the boost to Outrage is great and Salamence doesn't lose any HP unlike with LO. Can also be used to help bluff a Choice item.

    Also, just throwing this out there, but has anybody tried Specs Salamence? Just theorymonning here but it has a Special Attack stat equal to that of Latias and can also boast great surprise value. Also Specs Surf or Fire Blast can deal out massive damage in the rain/sun, making it very effective on weather teams in that respect.
  18. Danilo

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    I tried it a couple of months ago but it was pretty much outclassed by Latios. It did have that "wtf" factor, but i didn't find it very viable. Then again, that was a couple of months ago; the set could be a little more viable now.
  19. IronGross

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    Why no mention of SpecsMence?
  20. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Many options and quite unexpected, but hindered by a Stealth Rock weakness, unlike Latios and Hydreigon. Additionally, others could argue that SpecsMence may be outclassed by MixMence because Salamence actually has something to do after Draco Meteor's stat drop (destroy all existence with Outrage). Salamence does have potential due to that Special Attack, Intimidate, and unpredictability though, so I'll test it out tentatively.

    I'll also edit in the Brick Break fixes after I recieve stationary.
  21. Cherub Agent

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    Fire Blast, Hydro Pump and intimidate set SpecsMence apart from Latios, whereas Hydro Pump, Intimidate and higher Speed set it apart from Hydreigon. It should probably be the last set, but I believe it's viable
  22. Danilo

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    Test it and prove me wrong.
  23. Eggbert

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    Moxie isn't working with aqua tail and outrage for me, is my client outdated?
  24. Bruno Magno

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    I guess, even if Fire Blast is stronger, Fire Fang, on Moxiemence, is way, way better
    Moxie is a DW ability, so Mence can't have any 3G / 4G Tutor Move (Aqua Tail, Outrage, Tailwind, Roost, Sleep Talk etc.)
    Salamence is so offensive that Choice Specs is reductive: just look at Outrage + Draco Meteor + Fire Blast + Earthquake, there are no free switch-in. Choice Specs is great on Timid Latios / Hydreigon, as for them a mixed set is quite bad (except Mixed DD Latios, but still has only 90 Base Attack, and must spam Outrage as Dragon Claw sucks), while Special Attack is really high (130, 125)

    I suggest to post this set, it's extremely powerful and easy to play with. Later some calculations, just one now

    Fire Fang vs 252/252+ Ferrothorn: 81% - 95%
  25. SilentRevolver

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    Outrage and Moxie are legal together it's just they haven't updated the server yet. Aqua Tail with Moxie, however, is not compatible. Also Bruno Magno, Thunder Fang is a terrible to use. Just run Dragon Claw or Outrage as it deals more damage with STAB than a super effective Thunder Fang......A question relating to that set too, what does the 88 Special Defense EV's do?

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