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VGC Salamence

Discussion in 'Preliminary Pokedex' started by Chenkovsky, Mar 4, 2014.

  1. Chenkovsky

    Chenkovsky Hula's waifu.
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    Overview
    ########

    Salamence has quite a lot going for it in VGC. For one, its ability, Intimidate, weakens physical attackers on the switch-in. On top of that, Salamence also has decent bulk and combined with its Dragon typing giving it resistances to many common types, it will survive for a relatively long time for an attacker. Salamence has a respectable Special Attack and the movepool to back it up. Salamence's base Speed is 100, which lets it Speed tie or outspeed many Pokemon in the format.

    Salamence has a 4x weakness to Ice-type moves, though, which makes it easily OHKOed. Many of the Pokemon which outspeed Salamence, be this through Choice Scarf or higher base Speed, can OHKO it with their STAB moves. Although Salamence's movepool gives it all it needs, Salamence is quite predictable due to it not being too expansive; this is only worsened by Salamence's reliance of low accuracy moves.

    Choice Scarf
    ########
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Dragon Pulse
    move 3: Fire Blast
    move 4: Rock Slide / Stone Edge / Hydro Pump
    ability: Intimidate
    item: Choice Scarf
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid / Modest

    Moves
    ========

    Both Draco Meteor and Dragon Pulse are run, with Draco Meteor being run for picking up OHKOes against opposing Dragon-types and frailer attackers. Dragon Pulse is a more reliable STAB option that doesn't miss or result in Salamence's Special Attack being halved. The next move is Fire Blast to hit Steel-types, which would otherwise be able to take its Salamence's Dragon-type STAB attacks. It is also used to hit Grass-types like Amoonguss, which can take Draco Meteor, for super effective damage. The final moveslot is reserved for coverage moves, the choice of which depends on what your team needs. Rock Slide has a percentage chance to OHKO both Mega Charizard Y and Talonflame. Stone Edge can be run over Rock Slide to guarantee the OHKO on Mega Charizard Y and Talonflame and generally hits a lot harder than Rock Slide. Because of how common Rock Slide is, Mega Charizard Y and Talonflame are often paired with a Wide Guard user to block Rock Slides. Stone Edge has the advantage of hitting through Wide Guards as it isn't a spread move. However, it comes at the cost of accuracy and the loss of the flinch chance. Hydro Pump can be used with a Timid nature, as it also guarantees an OHKO against Talonflame, and hits other Fire-types harder coming off the more invested Special Attack.

    Set Details
    ========

    A Speed-boosting nature is run to outspeed and Speed tie with other Choice Scarf Salamence running Modest or a Speed-boosting nature respectively. The EVs on this spread are simple; their purpose to both maximize Speed and Special Attack so that Salamence hits as hard and as fast as possible. A Modest nature could be run for a slight Special Attack buff if your team doesn't fear opposing Choice Scarf Pokemon.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Salamence is commonly played as a lead thanks to its high Speed, coverage, and Intimidate. Getting off an early-game Intimidate weakens your opponent's physical attackers before they have a chance to attack. The move that should be most used on this set is Draco Meteor, as it hits significantly harder than any other move Salamence has access to. Although there is a Special Attack drop, switching out isn't hugely detrimental as it gives Salamence another chance to activate Intimidate. The only times you will find yourself using Dragon Pulse are against weakened opposing Pokemon or when you can't switch to reset Salamence's Special Attack.

    Team Options
    ========

    Mega Kangaskhan provides Fake Out support, which is always appreciated. On top of that, it can take on many of Salamence's checks and counters such as Gardevoir and Tyranitar by simply overpowering them with its ability, Parental Bond. Although Salamence and it share many of the same weaknesses, Garchomp has great offensive synergy alongside Salamence, partlydue to Garchomp's ability to fire off Earthquake freely thanks to Salamence's Flying typing. Rotom-W and Rotom-H both provide Will-O-Wisp support, also dealing with Steel-types that can take a Fire Blast in the case of Rotom-H. However, Rotom-W has the advantage of not sharing Salamence's weakness to Rock. Steel-types like Mega Mawile and Aegislash both have good defensive and offensive synergy alongside Salamence. This is because they can take any super effective hits that threaten Salamence and also dish out a sizable amounts of damage to many of Salamence's checks and counters, Gardevoir and Tyranitar for instance.

    Special Attacker
    ########
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Dragon Pulse
    move 3: Fire Blast
    move 4: Protect
    ability: Intimidate
    item: Haban Berry / Life Orb
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid / Modest

    Moves
    ========

    Draco Meteor is Salamence's most powerful STAB move, and can pick up many KOs on common frail Pokemon or against opposing Dragon-types. While Draco Meteor is for power, Dragon Pulse is for consistency. It has the benefits of guaranteed accuracy and no effect on Salamence's Special Attack. Fire Blast is to hit the Steel-types that resist Salamence's STAB Dragon-type moves for super effective damage. As this set isn't running a Choice item and Salamence is a highly targeted pokemon, Protect is a strongly recommended move for not only scouting but also waiting a turn so your partner can take down the threat.

    Set Details
    ========

    Haban Berry is run to allow Salamence to survive a Dragon-type hit. Draco Meteor is then fired off against the opposing Dragon-type for super effective damage, usually for an OHKO. However, for those who want extra power, Life Orb can be used, on top of which a Modest nature could also be run to further maximize Salamence's Special Attack. That said, it is advisable not to run a Modest nature when not carrying a Haban Berry as you are then losing Speed as well as the ability to survive a super effective hit. The EV spread is again to make Salamence's Special Attack and Speed as high as possible.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Because of the immense usefulness of Intimidate to weaken physical attackers, Salamence is often played as a lead. This is done to to somewhat check other common leads such as Mega Kangaskhan. Unlike any of the other sets, this set carries Protect. Protect is played to ease prediction and scout for an unexpected coverage move, like Ice Beam on Tyranitar. On top of that, it gives Salamence's partner a chance to KO the opposing threat. Dragon Pulse should be used when using Draco Meteor is not recommended, for instance when Salamence is one of the last Pokemon on field and needs to maintain its Special Attack for some later use. It is also used when the extra power of Draco Meteor isn't necessary and the loss of Special Attack would be a unneeded hindrance to your team.

    Team Options
    ========

    As Steel-types are problematic to Salamence even with Fire Blast, running Salamence alongside Fire- and Fighting-types to take on the Steel-types that can survive a Fire Blast is always a good idea. Other Intimidate Pokemon such as Mawile and Mega Manectric provide nice support and further weaken physical attackers; however, be cautious of Pokemon like Bisharp that can utilize this to boost their Attack higher thanks to Defiant. Fairy-types, which are immune to Salamence's Dragon-type STAB moves, are weak to Steel-type moves. Steel also resists all of the types that Salamence is weak to. Steel-types thereby have both good defensive and offensive synergy alongside Salamence. Good partners are Mawile, Aegislash, and Ferrothorn.

    Choice Specs
    ########
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Dragon Pulse
    move 3: Fire Blast
    move 4: Hydro Pump
    ability: Intimidate
    item: Choice Specs
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Modest / Timid

    Moves
    ========

    As with the sets above, both Draco Meteor and Dragon Pulse are run to give Salamence both a powerful and reliable STAB option. Fire Blast hits significantly harder than the above sets, and hits Steel-types for super effective damage which that would otherwise wall this set. Finally this set runs Hydro Pump to hit common Fire- and Rock-types for super effective damage and complement the rest of Salamence's coverage.

    Set Details
    ========

    Unlike the previous sets this set uses a Modest nature to hit as hard as possible. However, a Timid nature can be run to maximize Speed if needed. Choice Specs hits far harder than either of the previous sets, which also guarantees more OHKOes than any other set. This power is such that a Modest Choice Specs Salamence's Draco Meteor is the most powerful Dragon-type move in the format.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    As stated, Draco Meteor is the hardest hitting Dragon-type move in the format, and because of this a lot of the time it is a good idea to just use Draco Meteor. As stated before, switching out to reset Salamence's Special Attack can be beneficial, as it also allows another Intimidate to further weaken physical attackers later in the game. If a Modest nature is run you must bear in mind that Salamence no longer outspeeds many Pokemon it did with Timid; however, the increase in power is very noticeable and you must play it to these strengths. As a lot of other Pokemon with a base Speed of 100 run an Attack- or Special Attack-boosting nature, Speed ties might not be lost. Do not bank on this, however. For instance Mega Kangaskhan and Mega Charizard Y both commonly run a neutral nature.

    Team Options
    ========

    Tailwind is far more appreciated on this set than any other as it focuses more heavily on power than Speed. This extra Speed allows Salamence to take care of many of its old checks and counters. Fast Pokemon like Choice Scarf Gardevoir and Mamoswine can take on opposing Dragon-types that threaten Salamence. Steel-, Fire-, and Fighting-types are also all welcome partners for Salamence as they care of Steel- and Fairy-types.

    Other Options
    ########

    Flamethrower can be run over Fire Blast for increased accuracy; however, but it comes at the price of power. This drop in power is very noticeable as you Salamence loses out on 2HKOes on bulkier Pokemon. Such as Aegislash. Hidden Power Flying can be run as a secondary STAB move to hit Fighting- and Grass-types for super effective damage. However, it is weaker than Dragon Pulse. If you fear Dark Void Smeargle or sleep-inducing moves in general, Sleep Talk is an option on Choice sets to somewhat bypass these negative effects. A bulkier spread could be run, but know that what you are investing in bulk normally comes at the cost of Speed. Losing Speed for bulk isn't always advisable on sets with Choice items as Speed ties are generally very important to at least maintain for Salamence. Yache Berry or Focus Sash can be run to the same effect allowing Salamence to survive a hit before dealing out an attack of its own. Yache Berry is usually worse than Haban Berry given how much more common Dragon-type moves are, though. A Focus Sash can be used to allow Salamence to survive any move from full health, though given the presence of sand Salamence can often find itself being KOed at the end of the turn. A fully physical set could be run with moves like Dragon Claw, Earthquake, Crunch, Fire Fang, and possibly even Steel Wing and Zen Headbutt could be used to some effect, but the presence of Will-O-Wisp and Intimidate mean that it will end up hitting far less hard than the special sets very quickly.

    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Gardevoir**: Gardevoir is hands down the best Salamence counter, as it can easily take any of Salamence's moves, being immune to its STAB Dragon-type moves and having enough bulk not to fear the coverage options that Salamence carries. On top of that it can easily OHKO Salamence back with its STAB Moonblast.

    **Mega Mawile**: Although Mega Mawile fears Fire-type moves that Salamence commonly carries, none of them can OHKO it, and even after the Intimidate drop, Mega Mawile can OHKO Salamence with Play Rough.

    **Tyranitar**: Tyranitar can take any of Salamence's moves with relative ease and OHKO back with Ice Beam, while STAB Rock Slide will 2HKO most of the time even at -1 Attack.

    **Mamoswine**: Mamoswine's STAB Ice-types moves can easily OHKO Salamence. Draco Meteor will do massive damage to Mamoswine, however. It is worth mentioning that at -1 Ice Shard does not OHKO Salamence.

    **Aegislash**: Aegislash only needs to fear the 2HKO from Fire Blast. However, after a boost from Weakness Policy, Aegislash can OHKO at +2 with Shadow Ball or Flash Cannon.

    **Mega-Manectric**: Mega Manectric can't shrug off Salamence's moves, but it can OHKO it with ease with Hidden Power Ice.

    **Faster Dragon-Types**: Faster opposing Dragon-types can potentially OHKO with their super effective STAB moves. This goes both ways, though, as Salamence threatens them just as much.


    Skeleton (open)
    Overview
    ########
    [Pros]
    • Fast, base 100, speed ties or out speeds many common Pokemon
    • Intimidate is a great ability in doubles
    • Access to Draco Meteor, Fire Blast, and Hydro Pump are nice with Salamence's decent Special Attack
    • Dragon is a great defensive typing
    • Respectable bulk alongside Intimidate
    [Cons]
    • Four times weak to ice makes it easily OHKO'd
    • Many of the Pokemon that out speed non-scarf'd variants can OHKO Salamence
    • Limited Special movepool
    • Relies on low accuracy moves

    Choice Scarf
    ########
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Dragon Pulse
    move 3: Fire Blast
    move 4: Rock Slide / Stone Edge / Hydro Pump
    ability: Intimidate
    item: Choice Scarf
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid / Modest

    Moves
    ========
    • Both Draco Meteor and Dragon Pulse are run, Draco Meteor is for picking up OHKOes against opposing Dragon-types and frailer attackers. Whereas Dragon Pulse is run for a more reliable STAB option which doesn't result in you Special Attack being halved.
    • Fire Blast is run to hit Steel- and Grass-types for super effective damage. It gives Salamence perfect neutral coverage alongside its Dragon-type STAB.
    • The final slot is reserved for coverage options Rock Slide has a percentage chance to OHKO Mega-Charizard-Y and Talonflame.
    • Stone Edge can be run over Rock Slide to guarantees an OHKO Mega-Charizard-Y and Talonflame and generally hit's a lot harder than Rock Slide. However it is at the cost of even more accuracy.
    • However Hydro Pump can be used with a Timid nature, it also guarantees an OHKO against Talonflame and hit other Fire-types harder.

    Set Details
    ========
    • On spreads with Rock Slide a hasty nature is preferable as not to limit the damage output with a Timid nature, thanks to intimidate the defense drop from the Hasty nature is more than made up for. However on full special sets a Timid nature is preferable for little extra bulk it gives.
    • A Speed positive nature is run to outspeed or speedtie with other Choice Scarf Salamences running Modest or a Speed positive nature.
    • The EV's on this spread simple to both maximize Speed and Special Attack, so that Salamence hits as hard and as fast as possible.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    • The move most used on this set is Draco Meteor as it harder than any other move Salamence has access to, although there is a Special Attack drop switching out isn't hugely detrimental as it gives you another chance to activate intimidate and weaken physical attackers again.
    • Dragon Pulse is only really used for against weakened opposing Dragon-types and frail attackers, or when Salamence can't switch out and thereby the Special Attack drop would quickly render Salamence dead weight.
    • Salamence is a good lead because of Intimidate and a high Speed stat, with perfect neutral coverage hit can hit many common Pokemon for super effective damage .

    Team Options
    ========
    • Mega-Kangaskhan provides Fake Out support and can take care of many of Salamence's checks and counters, with its Fighting-type moves.
    • Although they share many of the same weaknesses Garchomp has great offensive synergy alongside Salamence.
    • Rotom-Wash and -Heat both provide Will-o-Wisp support, in the case of Rotom-Heat it can deal with the Steel-types that can survive Salamence's Fire Blast.
    • Steel-types like Mega-Mawile and Aegislash both have good Defensive and Offensive synergy alongside Salamence. As they can take any super effective hits that threaten Salamence, and also dish out huge amounts of damage to many of Salamences checks and counters.
    Special Attacker
    ########
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Dragon Pulse
    move 3: Fire Blast
    move 4: Protect
    ability: Intimidate
    item: Haban Berry / Life Orb
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid / Modest

    Moves
    ========
    • Draco Meteor hits hard at the cost of -2 Special Attack, whereas Dragon Pulse is more reliable but weaker.
    • Fire Blast hits Steel-types, which would otherwise easily take it's Dragon-type moves, for super effective damage.
    • As this set isn't running a Choice item and Salamence is a highly targeted pokemon, and thereby protect is a strongly recommended move for not only scouting but also waiting a turn so your partner can take down the threat.
    Set Details
    ========
    • Haban Berry is run to allow Salamence to survive a Dragon-type hit. Draco Meteor is then fired off against the attacker normally for super effective damage, as Dragon-type is generally not great coverage.
    • Life Orb however like Modest nature can be run to boost your damage output.
    • Again the EV's are run to both it as hard and fast as possible.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    • Salamence is commonly played as a lead to allow you to get a fast Intimidate of early in the match.
    • Protect is played to ease prediction and scout for an unexpected coverage move, like Ice Beam Tyranitar. It also gives your partner a chance to KO the threat.
    • Dragon Pulse is run for weaker, yet more reliable damage for situations that the extra power of Draco Meteor isn't required.


    Team Options
    ========
    • Fire- and Fighting-types are useful for dealing with Steel-types which are able to survive Fire Blasts from Salamence.
    • Other Intimidate Pokemon such as Mawile and Mega-Manectric provide nice support and further weaken physical attacker, however you must be cautious of Pokemon like Bisharp who can abuse this to boost its attack higher.
    • Steel-types can also be used as they take on many of the pokemon with attempt to check or counter Salamence.
    Choice Specs
    ########
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Dragon Pulse
    move 3: Fire Blast
    move 4: Hydro Pump
    ability: Intimidate
    item: Choice Specs
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Modest / Timid

    Moves
    ========
    • As with the above sets Dragon Pulse and Draco Meteor are both run to give you a reliable and powerful STAB option.
    • Fire Blast is run, and with Choice Specs hits considerably harder, for Steel-types which aim to take a Dragon-type move for resisted damage.
    • Finally this set runs Hydro Pump as a coverage move to hit Fire- and Rock-types for super effective damage.

    Set Details
    ========
    • Unlike the previous sets this set runs maximum Special Attack to hit as hard as possible with a Modest nature, however a Timid nature can be run to maximize Speed.
    • Choice Specs hits far harder than wither of the previous sets picking up more guaranteed OHKOes.
    • Choice Specs Draco Meteor is the hardest hitting Dragon-type move in the format.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    • As stated Draco Meteor is the hardest hitting Dragon-type move in the format, because of this a lot of the time you will find yourself simply using Draco Meteor. As stated before switching out to reset your Special Attack when done correctly can be beneficial as it also allows you to pull off another Intimidate and further weaken physical attackers.
    • If a Modest nature is run you must bare in mind that you no longer outspeed many Pokemon you did with timid however the increase in power is very noticeable and you must play it to these strengths.
    • A lot of other Pokemon with a Speed Base Stat of 100 run an Attack or Special Attack positive nature so speedties may not be lost. Do not bank on this however.

    Team Options
    ========
    • This set appreciates Tail Wind more than the others as it isn't so invested in Speed.
    • As above Steel-, Fire-, and Fighting-types are all support Salamence.
    • Fast Pokemon which deal with Dragon-types, like Choice Scarf Gardevoir aid in clearing the field of Pokemon which would otherwise deal with Salamence.

    Other Options
    ########
    • Flamethrower can be run over Fire Blast for increased accuracy, however it comes at the price of power.
    • Hidden Power Flying could be run to hit Fighting- and Grass- types for super effective, it is however a generally weak move even with STAB.
    • Sleep Talk can be run on Choice'd sets if your scared Sleep, however it uses a moveslot which could be used for coverage options.
    • A bulkier spread could be run, however you must know what you are investing in bulk for as it comes normally at the cost of Speed. Which is highly important in this current Meta-Game.
    • A fully physical set could be run with moves like Dragon Claw, Earthquake, Crunch, Fire Fang, possibly even Steel Wing, and Zen Head Butt could be used to some effect however the presences of Will-o-Wisp and Intimidate it will end up hitting far less hard than the Special sets very quickly.
    • Yache Berry or Focus Sash can be run to the same effect allowing you to survive a hit before dealing out an attack of its own.

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    • Gardevoir can easily take any of Salamence's hits and hit back hard with either Dazzling Gleam or Moon Blast, the latter of which easily OHKOes.
    • Mawile when Mega-evolved is 2HKO'd, however even at -1 Attack Mega-Mawile can OHKO with Play Rough.
    • Tyranitar can take any hit from Salamence and either OHKO Ice Beam or can deal a lot of damage with Rock Slide If not at -1 Attack.
    • Aegislash can take any hit relatively comfortably barring a Choice Specs Fire Blast, which won't OHKO but will deal massive damage, and can OHKO back with a Weakness Policy boosted Shadow Ball or Flash Canon.
    • Mega-Manectric can dispatch of non-Choice Scarf Salamences with Hidden Power Ice.
    • Faster opposing Dragon-types can potentially OHKO with their super effective STAB moves.
    Last edited: May 4, 2014
  2. lucariojr

    lucariojr it's nothing to sneasel at
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  3. bwebber

    bwebber

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    My two cents;

    Scarf set should be Timid / Modest, not Hasty / Timid. You really don't want to compromise bulk, especially since Salamence is important for Intimidate support. Last move should also be Stone Edge / Hydro Pump. Rock Slide is just too weak for what it's supposed to do.

    Also, same thing with the Specs set, kinda. Hydro Pump doesn't really hit much outside of Rotom-H and Tyranitar (the latter is only 3HKOed 95% of the time with Timid, ouch), so I'd slash Stone Edge in there for Charizard and Talonflame.
  4. Chenkovsky

    Chenkovsky Hula's waifu.
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    252 SpA Salamence Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 76-90 (43.4 - 51.4%) -- 5.1% chance to 2HKO
    252 SpA Salamence Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar: 112-134 (64 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252 SpA Choice Specs Salamence Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 112-134 (64 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Choice Specs Salamence Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar: 170-200 (97.1 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

    According to the official statistics 43% of Tyranitars are running Choice Scarf or Life Orb which don't run any bulk, now I acknowledge that many Tyranitars carry Ice Beam so staying in isn't always recommended but Salamence is limited for options. Even Timid Choice Specs is a guaranteed 3HKO against fully invested Tyranitar's, I don't how you got your calculations.

    252 SpA Choice Specs Salamence Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 82-98 (39.6 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    Now I understand Stone Edge, but Rock Slide has a percentage chance to OHKO which I know can be EV'd to survive. However it doesn't have the accuracy or the flinch chance of Rock Slide nor does it give the same coverage as Hydro Pump. I was going to include it in other options. The lack of power doesn't hugely matter either as neither Talonflame nor Charizard-Y can OHKO Salamence, outside of the very rare Hidden Power Ice Charizard-Y.

    EDIT: You might have been doing your calculations at level 100, attacks do more at level 50 than they do at 100.
  5. bwebber

    bwebber

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    No the calcs I did were correct, I just put that anecdote in the wrong spot lol. The first calc you posted was what I was talking about

    Hydro Pump is still pretty limited though. If you're Scarfed, it's pitifully weak, and if you're Specs, you still don't do enough to Tyranitar and can be OHKOed by Ice Beam (and if you're facing Scarf Tar you lose the matchup without having done anything, since it's faster than you and all Scarfed Tar carry Ice Beam). Rotom-H and Tyranitar are the only things you hit with Hydro Pump.

    Also, that bit about Charizard and Talonflame either isn't true at all or is misleading. Modest Charizard's Overheat does a massive (for a resisted hit) three quarters to 4/0 Salamence, and Banded Talonflame has a chance to OHKO if it switched in after Salamence, and is a guaranteed 2HKO even at -1. You don't want to be trading blows when you could just outright OHKO with Stone Edge.
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2014
  6. Chenkovsky

    Chenkovsky Hula's waifu.
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    That's true for them as, well it is there in other options for now. I'll think about it.


    This is false no matter where it is.

    Like I said: Tyranitars carry Ice Beam so staying in isn't always recommended.
  7. bwebber

    bwebber

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    You just posted the calc showing where Hydro Pump was a 3HKO lol

    Besides, if you're not gonna want to stay in on Tyranitar, what's the point of Hydro Pump then? Rotom-H is only 3HKO when you factor in Sitrus, and you also have to keep in mind that Charizard's Sun is extremely prevalent in the meta.

    Rock Slide also doesn't KO what it needs to, and when you're using it over Stone Edge (OHKOes both Fire birds) for a 47% chance to flinch one opponent (factoring in accuracy, and not to mention you don't choose which target you flinch) you're going to run into a lot of situations where you're not accomplishing what you need to do. You would never use a rock move against anything but Talonflame/Charizard anyway, and as I said, Rock Slide doesn't even OHKO either of them.
  8. lucariojr

    lucariojr it's nothing to sneasel at
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    sorry i didnt realize my silly picture was an invitation to start commenting on a wip skeleton
    TheMantyke likes this.
  9. TheMantyke

    TheMantyke Larvitard
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    yeah really, lol. I did actually have a few comments prepared for this analysis and posted earlier only to remember that this was a wip and I should wait until everything is fleshed out to start commenting.

    You have some valid points bwebber, but give chev some time to iron out everything before making constructive criticism.
  10. bwebber

    bwebber

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    Yep, I honestly didn't mean to be confrontational, and my points are largely nitpicky anyway. I can remember maybe two occasions where I actually used that last spot; it's been mostly just about clicking Draco and profiting.
  11. Chenkovsky

    Chenkovsky Hula's waifu.
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    Finished this for Friday.
  12. TheMantyke

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    Okay, now that this is QC ready I would like to see the natures listed be solely Timid and Modest. sacrificing your defenses is not something Salamence enjoys when it has its numerous resistances and Intimidate to switch in multiple time per game. The attack drop you suffer isn't too huge considering you still do major damage to Rock Slide's primary targets and that running a neutral nature still won't guarantee OHKOs (IIRC).

    I'd also like to see Stone Edge slashed alongside Rock Slide and Hydro Pump since it can completely snipe out a Talonflame and Charizard and stops them even if they're trying to cheese their way past your OHKOs with Rock Slide with a few defensive EVs.
  13. Audiosurfer

    Audiosurfer have one on me
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    looks good enough for a first check. QC 1/2
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 8, 2014
  14. TheMantyke

    TheMantyke Larvitard
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus
    VGC Leader

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    I'm happy with this now that my requested edits have been made; QC 2/2
  15. Chenkovsky

    Chenkovsky Hula's waifu.
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    Thank you, both. The write up shouldn't take more than a week or so.
  16. Chenkovsky

    Chenkovsky Hula's waifu.
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    Just a quick update my week was unexpectedly busy, I'm about a third of the way through so I should finish this weekend or early next week.
  17. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    Overview
    ########

    Salamence has quite a lot going for it in VGC; for one, its ability, Intimidate, weakens physical attackers on the switch-in. On top of that, Salamence also has decent bulk and with its Dragon typing giving it resistances to many common types it will survive for a relatively long time for an attacker. Salamence has a respectable Special Attack base stat of 110 stat and the movepool to back it up. Salamence's base Speed is 100 which lets it Speed tie or outspeed many Pokemon in the format.

    Salamence has a 4x weakness to Ice-type moves which makes it easily OHKOed. Many of the Pokemon which outspeed Salamence, be this through Choice Scarf or higher base Speed, can OHKO it with their STAB moves. Although Salamence's movepool gives it all it needs, Salamence is quite predictable due to it not being too expansive; this is only worsened by Salamence's reliance of low accuracy moves.

    Choice Scarf
    ########
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Dragon Pulse
    move 3: Fire Blast
    move 4: Rock Slide / Stone Edge / Hydro Pump
    ability: Intimidate
    item: Choice Scarf
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid / Modest

    Moves
    ========

    Both Draco Meteor and Dragon Pulse are run, with Draco Meteor being run for picking up OHKOes against opposing Dragon-types and frailer attackers. Dragon Pulse is run for a more reliable STAB option that doesn't miss or result in its Special Attack being halved. The next move is Fire Blast it is run to hit the Steel-types, which would otherwise be able to take its Dragon-type STAB attacks. It is also used to hit Grass-types like Amoonguss, which can take Draco Meteor, for super effective damage. The final moveslot is reserved for coverage moves, the choice of which is depends on what your team needs. Rock Slide is run as it has a percentage chance to OHKO both Mega Charizard Y and Talonflame. Stone Edge can be run over Rock Slide to guarantee the OHKO on Mega Charizard Y and Talonflame and generally hits a lot harder than Rock Slide. Because of how common Rock Slide is, Mega Charizard Y and Talonflame are often paired with a Wide Guard user to block Rock Slides. Stone Edge has the advantage of hitting through Wide Guards as it isn't a spread move. However, it comes at the cost of accuracy and the loss of the flinch chance. Hydro Pump can be used with a Timid nature, as it also guarantees an OHKO against Talonflame and hits other Fire-types harder, coming off the more invested Special Attack.

    Set Details
    ========

    A Speed positive nature is run to outspeed and Speed tie with other Choice Scarf Salamence running Modest or a Speed-boosting nature respectively. The EVs on this spread are simple; their purpose to both maximize Speed and Special Attack, so that Salamence hits as hard and as fast as possible. A Modest nature could be run to give its Special Attack a slight buff if you don't fear opposing Choice Scarf Pokemon.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Salamence is commonly played as a lead thanks to its high Speed, coverage, and Intimidate. Getting off an early game Intimidate can weaken your opponent's physical attackers before they have a chance to attack. The move most used on this set is Draco Meteor as it hits significantly harder than any other move Salamence has access to. Although there is a Special Attack drop, switching out isn't hugely detrimental as it gives you another chance to activate Intimidate and weaken physical attackers again. The only times you will find yourself using Dragon Pulse are against weakened opposing Pokemon, or when you can't switch to reset Salamence's Special Attack.

    Team Options
    ========

    Mega Kangaskhan provides Fake Out support, which is always appreciated. On top of that, it can take on many of Salamence's checks and counter by simply overpowering them with its immense Attack stat (this is innaccurate, as parental bond is why it's such a nuke). Although Salamence and it share many of the same weaknesses, Garchomp has great offensive synergy alongside Salamence, partly due to Garchomp's ability to fire off Earthquake freely thanks to Salamence's Flying typing. Rotom-W and Rotom-H both provide Will-O-Wisp support, dealing with Steel-types that can take a Fire Blast in the case of Rotom-H. However Rotom-W has the advantage of not sharing Salamence's weakness to Rock. Steel-types like Mega Mawile and Aegislash both have good defensive and offensive synergy alongside Salamence. This is because they can take any super effective hits that threaten Salamence, and also dish out a sizable amounts of damage to many of Salamence's checks and counters.

    Special Attacker
    ########
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Dragon Pulse
    move 3: Fire Blast
    move 4: Protect
    ability: Intimidate
    item: Haban Berry / Life Orb
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid / Modest

    Moves
    ========

    Draco Meteor is Salamence's most powerful STAB move, and can pick up many KOs on many of the frailer common Pokemon or against opposing Dragon-types. While you run Draco Meteor for power, you run Dragon Pulse for consistency. It has the benefits of guaranteed accuracy and no effect on Salamence's Special Attack unlike Draco Meteor, which lowers its Special Attack by two stages. Fire Blast is run to hit the Steel-types that resist Salamence's STAB Dragon-type moves for super effective damage. As this set isn't running a Choice item and Salamence is a highly targeted pokemon, Protect is a strongly recommended move for not only scouting but also waiting a turn so your partner can take down the threat.

    Set Details
    ========

    Haban Berry is run to allow Salamence to survive a (specific examples unless it survives them all??) Dragon-type hit. Draco Meteor is then fired off against the opposing Dragon-type for super effective damage, usually for the OHKO. However, for those who want extra power, Life Orb can be used, on top of which a Modest nature could also be run to further maximize Salamence's Special Attack. That said, it is advisable not to run a Modest nature when not carrying a Haban Berry as you are then losing Speed and the ability to survive a super effective hit. The EV spread is again run to both take your Special Attack and Speed to the highest possible it can be.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Because of the immense usefulness of Intimidate to weaken physical attackers Salamence is often played as a lead. This is done to to somewhat check other common leads such as Mega Kangaskhan. Unlike any of the other sets, this set carries Protect. Protect is played to ease prediction and scout for an unexpected coverage move, like Ice Beam on Tyranitar. On top of that, it gives your partner a chance to KO the opposing threat. Dragon Pulse is run to be used when using Draco Meteor is not recommended; for instance, when Salamence is one of the last Pokemon on field and needs to maintain its Special Attack for some later use. It is also used when the extra power of Draco Meteor isn't necessary and the loss of Special Attack would be a unneeded hindrance to your own team.

    Team Options
    ========

    As Steel-types are problematic to Salamence even with Fire Blast, running Salamence alongside Fire- and Fighting-types to take on the Steel-types that can survive a Fire Blast is always a good idea. Other Intimidate-using Pokemon such as Mawile and Mega Manectric provide nice support and further weaken physical attackers; however, you must be cautious of Pokemon like Bisharp who can utilize this to boost its Attack higher thanks to Defiant. The newly introduced Fairy-types, which are immune to Salamence's Dragon-type STAB moves, are generally weak to Steel-type moves. Steel also resists all of the types that Salamence is weak to. Steel-types thereby have both good defensive and offensive synergy alongside Salamence. Good examples of this are Mawile, Aegislash, and Ferrothorn.

    Choice Specs
    ########
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Dragon Pulse
    move 3: Fire Blast
    move 4: Hydro Pump
    ability: Intimidate
    item: Choice Specs
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Modest / Timid

    Moves
    ========

    As with the sets above, both Draco Meteor and Dragon Pulse are run to give you both a powerful and reliable STAB option. Fire Blast hits significantly harder than the above sets, and hits the Steel-types for super effective damage which would otherwise wall this set. Finally this set runs Hydro Pump to the common Fire- and Rock-types for super effective damage and complements the rest of Salamence's coverage.

    Set Details
    ========

    Unlike the previous sets this set runs maximum Special Attack to hit as hard as possible with a Modest nature; however, a Timid nature can be run to maximize Speed. Choice Specs hits far harder than either of the previous sets. This also guarantees more OHKOes than any other set. This power is such that a Modest nature Choice Specs Salamence's Draco Meteor is the most powerful Dragon-type move in the format.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    As stated, Draco Meteor is the hardest hitting Dragon-type move in the format, because of this a lot of the time you will find yourself simply using Draco Meteor. As stated before, switching out to reset your Special Attack when done correctly can be beneficial, as it also allows you to pull off another Intimidate and further weaken physical attackers later in the game. If a Modest nature is run you must bear in mind that Salamence no longer outspeeds many Pokemon it did with Timid; however, the increase in power is very noticeable and you must play it to these strengths. As a lot of other Pokemon with a base Speed of 100 run an Attack- or Special Attack-boosting nature Speed ties may not be lost. Do not bank on this, however.

    Team Options
    ========

    Tailwind is far more appreciated on this set than any other as it focuses more heavily on Special Attack than on Speed. This extra Speed allows you to take care of many of Salamence's checks and counters. Fast Pokemon like Choice (choiced? scarf????) Gardevoir and Mamoswine can take on opposing Dragon-types that threaten Salamence. Steel-, Fire-, and Fighting-types are also all welcome partners for Salamence as they care of Salamence's checks and counters.

    Other Options
    ########

    Flamethrower can be run over Fire Blast for increased accuracy; however, it comes at the price of power. This drop in power is very noticeable as you lose out on 2HKOes on bulkier Pokemon. Hidden Power Flying can be run as a secondary STAB move to hit Fighting- and Grass-types for super effective. However, it is weaker than STAB Dragon Pulse against super effective targets (except this is not true, because you get the stab boost ?_?_?_?). If you fear Dark Void Smeargle or sleep-inducing moves in general, Sleep Talk is an option on sets Choice items to somewhat bypass sleeps negative effects. A bulkier spread could be run; however, you must know what you are investing in bulk for as it comes normally at the cost of Speed. Losing Speed for bulk isn't always advisable on sets with Choice items as speedties are generally very important to at least maintain for Salamence. Yache Berry or Focus Sash can be run to the same effect allowing you to survive a hit before dealing out an attack of its own. Yache Berry is usually worse than Haban Berry given how much more common Dragon-type moves are. A Focus Sash can be used to allow you to survive any move from full health, yhough given the presence of sand it can often find itself being KOed at the end of the turn. A fully physical set could be run with moves like Dragon Claw, Earthquake, Crunch, Fire Fang, and possibly even Steel Wing, and Zen Headbutt could be used to some effect, but the presence of Will-O-Wisp and Intimidate mean that it will end up hitting far less hard than the special sets very quickly.

    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Gardevoir**: Gardevoir is hands-down the best Salamence counter it can easily take any of Salamence's moves, being immune to its STAB Dragon-type moves and having enough bulk not to fear the coverage options that Salamence carries. On top of that it can easily OHKO Salamence back with its STAB Moonblast.

    **Mega Mawile**: Although Mega Mawile must fear Fire-type moves that Salamence commonly carries, none of them can OHKO it, and even after the Intimidate drop, Mega Mawile can OHKO Salamence with Play Rough.

    **Tyranitar**: Tyranitar can take any of Salamence's moves with relative ease and OHKO back with Ice Beam, while STAB Rock Slide will 2HKO most of the time even at -1 Attack.

    **Mamoswine**: Mamoswine's STAB Ice-types moves can easily OHKO Salamence. Draco Meteor will do massive damage to Mamoswine if not OHKO, however. It is worth mentioning that at -1 Ice Shard does not OHKO Salamence.

    **Aegislash**: Aegislash only needs to fear the 2HKO from Fire Blast. However thanks to Weakness Policy Aegislash can OHKO at +2 with Shadow Ball or Flash Cannon.

    **Mega-Manectric**: Mega Manectric can't shrug off Salamence's moves, but it can OHKO it with some ease with Hidden Power Ice.

    **Faster Dragon-Types**: Faster opposing Dragon-types can potentially OHKO with their super effective STAB moves. This goes both ways, though, as Salamence threatens them just as much.

    GP 1/2, please read through the Spelling and Grammar Standards.
  18. Professor Birch

    Professor Birch

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    969
    I have found a major issue with this analysis and I apologize if I am mistaken but according to serebii, Salamence is unable to learn Drace Meteor without transfer. Therefore, it is VGC 14 illegal.

    Link: http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/373.shtml
  19. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Deleting...
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,144
    No, they just messed up. Draco Meteor is a tutor move in XY, just like in every other game since DP.
  20. Professor Birch

    Professor Birch

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    969
    Ah ok, I just wanted to point it out just in case it was true.
  21. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego No matter if it seems so hard, friends are near
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    3,098
    Chenkovsky

    REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

    Show Hide

    Overview
    ########

    Salamence has quite a lot going for it in VGC. For one, its ability, Intimidate, weakens physical attackers on the switch-in. On top of that, Salamence also has decent bulk and combined with its Dragon typing giving it resistances to many common types, (AC) it will survive for a relatively long time for an attacker. Salamence has a respectable Special Attack and the movepool to back it up. Salamence's base Speed is 100, (AC) which lets it Speed tie or outspeed many Pokemon in the format.

    Salamence has a 4x weakness to Ice-type moves, though, which makes it easily OHKOed. Many of the Pokemon which outspeed Salamence, be this through Choice Scarf or higher base Speed, can OHKO it with their STAB moves. Although Salamence's movepool gives it all it needs, Salamence is quite predictable due to it not being too expansive; this is only worsened by Salamence's reliance of low accuracy moves.

    Choice Scarf
    ########
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Dragon Pulse
    move 3: Fire Blast
    move 4: Rock Slide / Stone Edge / Hydro Pump
    ability: Intimidate
    item: Choice Scarf
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid / Modest

    Moves
    ========

    Both Draco Meteor and Dragon Pulse are run, with Draco Meteor being run for picking up OHKOes against opposing Dragon-types and frailer attackers. Dragon Pulse is run for a more reliable STAB option that doesn't miss or result in its Salamence's Special Attack being halved. The next move is Fire Blast it is run to hit the Steel-types, which would otherwise be able to take its Salamence's Dragon-type STAB attacks. It is also used to hit Grass-types like Amoonguss, which can take Draco Meteor, for super effective damage. The final moveslot is reserved for coverage moves, the choice of which is depends on what your team needs. Rock Slide is run as it has a percentage chance to OHKO both Mega Charizard Y and Talonflame. Stone Edge can be run over Rock Slide to guarantee the OHKO on Mega Charizard Y and Talonflame and generally hits a lot harder than Rock Slide. Because of how common Rock Slide is, Mega Charizard Y and Talonflame are often paired with a Wide Guard user to block Rock Slides. Stone Edge has the advantage of hitting through Wide Guards as it isn't a spread move. However, it comes at the cost of accuracy and the loss of the flinch chance. Hydro Pump can be used with a Timid nature, as it also guarantees an OHKO against Talonflame, (AC) and hits other Fire-types harder, (RC) coming off the more invested Special Attack.

    Set Details
    ========

    A Speed-boosting positive nature is run to outspeed and Speed tie with other Choice Scarf Salamence running Modest or a Speed-boosting nature respectively. The EVs on this spread are simple; their purpose to both maximize Speed and Special Attack, (RC) so that Salamence hits as hard and as fast as possible. A Modest nature could be run for a slight to give its Special Attack a slight buff if your team doesn't don't fear opposing Choice Scarf Pokemon.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Salamence is commonly played as a lead thanks to its high Speed, coverage, and Intimidate. Getting off an early-game Intimidate can weakens your opponent's physical attackers before they have a chance to attack. The move that should be most used on this set is Draco Meteor, (AC) as it hits significantly harder than any other move Salamence has access to. Although there is a Special Attack drop, switching out isn't hugely detrimental as it gives you Salamence another chance to activate Intimidate and weaken physical attackers again. The only times you will find yourself using Dragon Pulse are against weakened opposing Pokemon, (RC) or when you can't switch to reset Salamence's Special Attack.

    Team Options
    ========

    Mega Kangaskhan provides Fake Out support, which is always appreciated. On top of that, it can take on many of Salamence's checks and counters such as what by simply overpowering them with its ability, Parental Bond. Although Salamence and it share many of the same weaknesses, Garchomp has great offensive synergy alongside Salamence, partlydue to Garchomp's ability to fire off Earthquake freely thanks to Salamence's Flying typing. Rotom-W and Rotom-H both provide Will-O-Wisp support, also dealing with Steel-types that can take a Fire Blast in the case of Rotom-H. However, (AC) Rotom-W has the advantage of not sharing Salamence's weakness to Rock. Steel-types like Mega Mawile and Aegislash both have good defensive and offensive synergy alongside Salamence. This is because they can take any super effective hits that threaten Salamence, (RC) and also dish out a sizable amounts of damage to many of Salamence's checks and counters. again explain what they are

    Special Attacker
    ########
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Dragon Pulse
    move 3: Fire Blast
    move 4: Protect
    ability: Intimidate
    item: Haban Berry / Life Orb
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid / Modest

    Moves
    ========

    Draco Meteor is Salamence's most powerful STAB move, and can pick up many KOs on many of the frailer common frail Pokemon or against opposing Dragon-types. While you run Draco Meteor is for power, you run Dragon Pulse is for consistency. It has the benefits of guaranteed accuracy and no effect on Salamence's Special Attack unlike Draco Meteor, which lowers its Special Attack by two stages. Fire Blast is run to hit the Steel-types that resist Salamence's STAB Dragon-type moves for super effective damage. As this set isn't running a Choice item and Salamence is a highly targeted pokemon, Protect is a strongly recommended move for not only scouting but also waiting a turn so your partner can take down the threat.

    Set Details
    ========

    Haban Berry is run to allow Salamence to survive a Dragon-type hit. Draco Meteor is then fired off against the opposing Dragon-type for super effective damage, usually for an the OHKO. However, for those who want extra power, Life Orb can be used, on top of which a Modest nature could also be run to further maximize Salamence's Special Attack. That said, it is advisable not to run a Modest nature when not carrying a Haban Berry as you are then losing Speed and as well as the ability to survive a super effective hit. The EV spread is again to make Salamence's Special Attack and Speed as high as possible run to both take your Special Attack and Speed to the highest possible it can be.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Because of the immense usefulness of Intimidate to weaken physical attackers, (AC) Salamence is often played as a lead. This is done to to somewhat check other common leads such as Mega Kangaskhan. Unlike any of the other sets, this set carries Protect. Protect is played to ease prediction and scout for an unexpected coverage move, like Ice Beam on Tyranitar. On top of that, it gives your Salamence's partner a chance to KO the opposing threat. Dragon Pulse is run to be should be used when using Draco Meteor is not recommended, (comma) for instance, (RC) when Salamence is one of the last Pokemon on field and needs to maintain its Special Attack for some later use. It is also used when the extra power of Draco Meteor isn't necessary and the loss of Special Attack would be a unneeded hindrance to your own team.

    Team Options
    ========

    As Steel-types are problematic to Salamence even with Fire Blast, running Salamence alongside Fire- and Fighting-types to take on the Steel-types that can survive a Fire Blast is always a good idea. Other Intimidate-using Pokemon such as Mawile and Mega Manectric provide nice support and further weaken physical attackers; however, you must be cautious of Pokemon like Bisharp who that can utilize this to boost its their Attack higher thanks to Defiant. The newly introduced Fairy-types, which are immune to Salamence's Dragon-type STAB moves, are generally weak to Steel-type moves. Steel also resists all of the types that Salamence is weak to. Steel-types thereby have both good defensive and offensive synergy alongside Salamence. Good examples of this partners are Mawile, Aegislash, and Ferrothorn.

    Choice Specs
    ########
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Dragon Pulse
    move 3: Fire Blast
    move 4: Hydro Pump
    ability: Intimidate
    item: Choice Specs
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Modest / Timid

    Moves
    ========

    As with the sets above, both Draco Meteor and Dragon Pulse are run to give you Salamence both a powerful and reliable STAB option. Fire Blast hits significantly harder than the above sets, and hits the Steel-types for super effective damage which that would otherwise wall this set. Finally this set runs Hydro Pump to hit the common Fire- and Rock-types for super effective damage and complements the rest of Salamence's coverage.

    Set Details
    ========

    Unlike the previous sets this set uses runs maximum Special Attack to hit as hard as possible with a Modest nature to hit as hard as possible. (period) However, a Timid nature can be run to maximize Speed if needed. Choice Specs hits far harder than either of the previous sets, (AC) which This also guarantees more OHKOes than any other set. This power is such that a Modest nature Choice Specs Salamence's Draco Meteor is the most powerful Dragon-type move in the format.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    As stated, Draco Meteor is the hardest hitting Dragon-type move in the format, and because of this a lot of the time you will find yourself simply using it is a good idea to just use Draco Meteor. As stated before, switching out to reset your Salamence's Special Attack when done correctly can be beneficial, as it also allows you to pull off another Intimidate and to further weaken physical attackers later in the game. If a Modest nature is run you must bear in mind that Salamence no longer outspeeds many Pokemon it did with Timid; however, the increase in power is very noticeable and you must play it to these strengths. As a lot of other Pokemon with a base Speed of 100 run an Attack- or Special Attack-boosting nature, (AC) Speed ties may might not be lost. Do not bank on this, however. Give some examples

    Team Options
    ========

    Tailwind is far more appreciated on this set than any other as it focuses more heavily on Special Attack power than on Speed. This extra Speed allows you Salamence to take care of many of its old Salamence's checks and counters. Fast Pokemon like Choice Scarf Gardevoir and Mamoswine can take on opposing Dragon-types that threaten Salamence. Steel-, Fire-, and Fighting-types are also all welcome partners for Salamence as they care of Steel- and Fairy-types Salamence's checks and counters.

    Other Options
    ########

    Flamethrower can be run over Fire Blast for increased accuracy; however, but it comes at the price of power. This drop in power is very noticeable as you Salamence loses out on 2HKOes on bulkier Pokemon. such as Hidden Power Flying can be run as a secondary STAB move to hit Fighting- and Grass-types for super effective damage. However, it is weaker than Dragon Pulse. If you fear Dark Void Smeargle or sleep-inducing moves in general, Sleep Talk is an option on sets Choice sets items to somewhat bypass sleeps these negative effects. A bulkier spread could be run; however, but you must know that what you are investing in bulk for as it comes normally comes at the cost of Speed. Losing Speed for bulk isn't always advisable on sets with Choice items as Speed ties are generally very important to at least maintain for Salamence. Yache Berry or Focus Sash can be run to the same effect allowing you Salamence to survive a hit before dealing out an attack of its own. Yache Berry is usually worse than Haban Berry given how much more common Dragon-type moves are, though. A Focus Sash can be used to allow you Salamence to survive any move from full health, though given the presence of sand it Salamence can often find itself being KOed at the end of the turn. A fully physical set could be run with moves like Dragon Claw, Earthquake, Crunch, Fire Fang, and possibly even Steel Wing, (RC) and Zen Headbutt could be used to some effect, but the presence of Will-O-Wisp and Intimidate mean that it will end up hitting far less hard than the special sets very quickly.

    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Gardevoir**: Gardevoir is hands down the best Salamence counter, (AC) as it can easily take any of Salamence's moves, being immune to its STAB Dragon-type moves and having enough bulk not to fear the coverage options that Salamence carries. On top of that it can easily OHKO Salamence back with its STAB Moonblast.

    **Mega Mawile**: Although Mega Mawile must fears Fire-type moves that Salamence commonly carries, none of them can OHKO it, and even after the Intimidate drop, Mega Mawile can OHKO Salamence with Play Rough.

    **Tyranitar**: Tyranitar can take any of Salamence's moves with relative ease and OHKO back with Ice Beam, while STAB Rock Slide will 2HKO most of the time even at -1 Attack.

    **Mamoswine**: Mamoswine's STAB Ice-types moves can easily OHKO Salamence. Draco Meteor will do massive damage to Mamoswine if not OHKO, however. It is worth mentioning that at -1 Ice Shard does not OHKO Salamence.

    **Aegislash**: Aegislash only needs to fear the 2HKO from Fire Blast. However, (AC) thanks to after a boost from Weakness Policy, (AC) Aegislash can OHKO at +2 with Shadow Ball or Flash Cannon.

    **Mega-Manectric**: Mega Manectric can't shrug off Salamence's moves, but it can OHKO it with some ease with Hidden Power Ice.

    **Faster Dragon-Types**: Faster opposing Dragon-types can potentially OHKO with their super effective STAB moves. This goes both ways, though, as Salamence threatens them just as much.
    [​IMG]
    2/2

    There were a lot of things in here that should have been fixed earlier
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
    Kingler12345 likes this.
  22. hidood5th

    hidood5th

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Messages:
    11
    I'm sorry, but did everyone on earth suddenly lose track of the GIANT 130 BASE ATTACK MOXIE SWEEPER?!?!!?
    I know, he has a good special movepool, but his physical movepool IS SO MUCH BETTER! Outrage, Fire Fang, Earthquake, Crunch, Stone Edge, WHY SPECIALLY BUILD A POKEMON WHO WAS DESIGNED FOR PHYSICAL??
  23. Aragorn the King

    Aragorn the King https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQZmCJUSC6g
    is a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2013
    Messages:
    1,465
    It's often outclassed in fully offensive roles. You have to work with what you're given with a Pokemon like Salamence.
    CyclicCompound likes this.
  24. bwebber

    bwebber

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    Messages:
    379
    VGC is a completely different animal compared to singles
    WreckDra likes this.
  25. WreckDra

    WreckDra got wet...
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2012
    Messages:
    688
    It's plain to see when there is Intimidate and Will-O-Wisp around every single corner in order to deal with Kang and Mawile. Mence is the hardest hitting Special Dragon that is in the Kalos Dex and with how many anti physical measures there are, why not take advantage of a base 110 SpA Dragon with passable speed and a respectable special movepool.
    It also doesn't get access to Outrage as a Kalos native, but even then Outrage is garbage in doubles.

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