Doubles Salamence

Lord Alphose

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Overview
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Salamence returns for another generation of Doubles as a powerful special attacker with support potential. Intimidate and Tailwind allow it to help out its allies, while its incredible movepool and solid offensive stats allow it to threaten its enemies. Salamence receives competition from Hydreigon or Latios as a specially attacking Dragon-type, but its ability is what really sets it apart. In truth, Intimidate and Salamence's fortunate typing are the main reasons to use Salamence over either of these Pokemon.

However, despite its large special movepool, Salamence's Special Attack is only decent. Its most powerful STAB, Draco Meteor, forces it to switch out constantly, but Intimidate turns this constant switching into an advantage. Salamence would love to run a physically attacking set, but the prominence of Intimidate and burn and the unreliable nature of Outrage leave something to be desired. Its Dragon / Flying typing leaves holes both offensively and defensively, as it has no viable Flying-type attacks, and its weakness to Ice-, Fairy-, and Rock-type attacks severally hinder how freely it can be used.


Special Attacker
########
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: Protect
move 4: Hyrdo Pump / Tailwind
ability: Intimidate
item: Life Orb / Yache Berry
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
nature: Timid / Modest

Moves
========

Draco Meteor is a STAB heavy nuke, hitting many Pokemon hard. Fire Blast sears through the Steel-types that resist Draco Meteor, such as Aegislash and Scizor. Protect is a staple of Doubles because it gives Salamence a free turn of safety. During this turn, Salamence's partner can take out whatever is threatening Salamence. Hydro Pump hits Fire-, Ground-, and Rock-types much harder than Draco Meteor or Fire Blast, specifically Heatran, which resists Draco Meteor and is immune to Fire Blast because of Flash Fire. Tailwind doubles the Speed of Salamence and its allies for four turns, which can help slower Pokemon keep up with faster threats.

Set Details
========

Maximum EVs should be invested into Special Attack and Speed to increase Salamence's damage potential. Life Orb increases Salamence's damage output significantly, but Yache Berry covers for Salamence's Ice-type weakness. Ice is common for an attacking type in Doubles, so Yache Berry can be a lifesaver. If Salamence is running Life Orb, it should only run 29 HP IVs in order to minimize recoil damage. If Salamence is running Yache Berry, though, it should run full HP IVs. Timid increases Speed while Modest increases Special Attack, both at the expense of Attack. The increased Speed that Timid provides should be used to keep up with base 100 Speed Pokemon, like Mega Charizard Y and Mega Kangaskhan. Intimidate lowers the Attack of both opposing Pokemon, which can inhibit a lot of would-be threats.

Usage Tips
========

Protect helps Salamence avoid dangerous attacks like Fake Out, and Tailwind helps slower allied Pokemon take out faster enemies. Salamence should switch in, use Draco Meteor, nuking a Pokemon, then switch out to rid itself of the Special Attack drop. This also reapplies the Intimidate. Salamence's typing, along with Intimidate and Protect, help it switch in and out with relative ease. There are occasions, however, when Intimidate can be dangerous. Defiant Pokemon, such as Bisharp and Tornadus, get an Attack boost when Intimidated, making them more dangerous as threats.

Team Options
========

Slower Pokemon that benefit from a Speed boost give Salamence purpose in carrying Tailwind. Some examples are Heatran, Excadrill, Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Heracross, and Sylveon; what you want are slower Pokemon with bulk and offensive capability that just need Speed to be a threat. These Pokemon are also helped out by Intimidate. Fake Out support from Kangaskhan and Hitmontop can give Salamence a free turn, which is useful to set up Tailwind or use a super effective attack. Hitmontop can also provide Wide Guard and Helping Hand support, but the second Intimidate can be dangerous considering the prominence of Bisharp. Helping Hand users, such as Cresselia and Jirachi, help increase Salamence's damage output. Pokemon that Salamence can switch to that absorb Ice-type attacks, like Rotom-W and Suicune, make good partners. Steel-type Pokemon, such as Jirachi, Heatran, and Aegislash, can take out Ice- and Fairy-type Pokemon with ease, as well as resist Ice-, Fairy-, and Dragon-type attacks. Jirachi can use Follow Me to redirect super effective attacks aimed at Salamence while resisting all of Salamence's weaknesses. Aegislash provides Wide Guard support, which is excellent at deterring Rock Slide, Icy Wind, and Pixilate Hyper Voice. Bisharp deters Icy Wind through Defiant while also benefiting immensely from Tailwind, due to its middling Speed. Scizor deals with Latios and Latias, as well as Terrakion, Choice Scarf Tyranitar, and Weavile.

Choice Scarf
########
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: Hydro Pump
move 4: Stone Edge
ability: Intimidate
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Modest

Moves
========

Draco Meteor is an immensely powerful STAB attack. Fire Blast is used in order to destroy Steel-types that resist Draco Meteor. Hydro Pump deals with Landorus-T, as well as several dangerous Fire-types, such as Heatran, which resist Draco Meteor and Fire Blast. Despite being a physical move in a special set, Stone Edge meritse use because it hits for 4x damage against some extremely common Pokemon, specifically Mega Charizard Y, Talonflame, and Volcarona. Although Rock Slide may seem like a better move to have, the damage it deals it minuscule and isn't worth the moveslot.

Set Details
========

Use Maximum Speed and Special Attack EVs to pose the biggest threat to opposing Pokemon. A Choice Scarf increases Salamence's Speed dramatically, allowing it to outspeed the entire unboosted metagame. Modest increases Special Attack at the expense of Attack, though Timid can be used to outspeed Choice Scarf Genesect and +2 base 70 Speed Pokemon, like Ludicolo in the rain or Bisharp with Tailwind, but the power drop is noticeable. Attack EVs or an Attack-positive nature are not necessary, as Stone Edge should OHKO Mega Charizard Y, Talonflame, and Volcarona, with no investment. Intimidate lowers the Attack of both opposing Pokemon, which can improve the longevity of Salamence and it's team.

Usage Tips
========

If all attacks hit neutrally, Draco Meteor will hit for the most damage, so that is the preferred means of attack. However, the Special Attack drop from Draco Meteor will start to become apparent with increased usage, so be prepared to switch Salamence out. Because of this, Salamence's gameplay will be hit-and-run, coming in, Intimidating the enemies, firing off a Draco Meteor, then switching out to undo the Special Attack drop. It switches in and out with relative ease, due to its defensive typing and Intimidate. Be careful what move you lock Salamence into, as often times the wrong move could mean the game. Stone Edge is solely intended for 4x damage against Mega Charizard Y, Talonflame, and Volcarona, and won't deal much damage otherwise. Do not Intimidate Bisharp, Tornadus, or any other Defiant or Competitive Pokemon, because they will get a boost and deal tons of damage. Rage Power, Quick Guard, or Follow Me can help Salamence to avoid a Defiant-boosted Sucker Punch, and Salamence's Fire Blast can OHKO Bisharp.

Team Options
========

While Choice Scarf Salamence is fast, there are still faster Pokemon, so Pokemon that can check or counter these Pokemon are useful. For example, Heatran can take out Timid Choice Scarf Genesect. Cresselia and Jirachi are great as Helping Hand users, increasing Salamence's damage output. Steel-type Pokemon, like Heatran, Jirachi, and Aegislash, deal with Ice- and Fairy-types with their super effective attacks. They are also immensely useful for switch-ins, as they resist the Ice-, Fairy-, and Dragon-type attacks that scare Salamence. Jirachi can use Follow Me to redirect super effective attacks aimed at Salamence. Aegislash provides Wide Guard support, which is excellent at deterring Rock Slide, Icy Wind, and Pixilate Hyper Voice, and it can effectively take out the Pokemon that carry these moves. Bisharp deters Icy Wind through Defiant.

Other Options
########

Flamethrower or Heat Wave are both more accurate but weaker than Fire Blast, and Heat Wave can hit both opposing Pokemon. Dragon Pulse is also a more conservative option than Draco Meteor, sacrificing power for consistency and accuracy. Hidden Power Flying and Air Cutter are Salamence's only Flying-type STAB moves, but both of them are bloody weak. Roost can be used on the Life Orb set to compensate for the recoil and residual damage that accumulates over time.

Salamence has an enormous base 135 Attack stat, maning, it can run a Dragon Dance set, increasing its Attack and Speed and then attempting to sweep with its wide physical movepool. Among these moves are some powerful options, including Outrage, Aqua Tail, Earthquake, Crunch, Dragon Claw, Iron Tail, Shadown Claw, and Zen Headbutt. This set's potential power can also be augmented by Moxie, which would increase its power for every Pokemon that it KOes. However, Moxie is considered to be a much less useful ability compared to Intimidate.

Checks & Counters
########

**Offensive Typing Advantage**: Ice-type attacks pose a massive threat to Salamence and are common in Doubles. Thundurus and Mega Manectric commonly carry Hidden Power Ice and easily outpace the special attacker set, but have trouble outspeeding the Choice Scarf set. Abomasnow's or Mamoswine's Ice Shard will OHKO any Salamence without a Yache Berry and has priority to hit Salamence regardless of whether it has a Choice Scarf or not. Fairy-types are immune to Draco Meteor and deal considerable damage to Salamence. Slyveon and Mega Gardvoir especially pose a threat, as their massive special bulk allows them to survive Salamence's other attacks with ease. Azumarill resists Fire Blast and Hydro Pump, is immune to Draco Meteor, and can easily OHKO if it avoids the Intimidate Attack drop. Dragon-types deal super effective damage, and Garchomp or Latios outspeed the special attacker set and can OHKO, while either of them with a Choice Scarf will outspeed the Choice Scarf set. Bisharp and Tornadus have their Attack boosted when Salamence switches in on them. This makes them a problem and discourages Salamence from switching in. Bisharp, for example, can almost always OHKO with a Defiant-boosted Sucker Punch, while Tornadus has a small chance to OHKO with a Defiant-boosted Acrobatics.

**Speed Control**: Icy Wind will not only deal super effective damage to Salamence, it will also slow Salamence and its partner down. Trick Room will make Salamence move last almost all of the time. Salamence is impeded by Thunder Wave or opposing Tailwind, especially on the Choice Scarf set, as it needs to outspeed to be a serious threat.

**Utility**: Priority Encore or priority Taunt from Whimsicott lock the first set into a move or keep Salamence from using Tailwind or Protect, both of which could inhibit Salamence's usefulness. Even merely fast Encores or Taunts can inhibit Salamence's usefulness, but most of the Pokemon that can get off a fast Encore can't comfortably take a Draco Meteor.

**Defensive**: Jirachi and Togekiss can force a Draco Meteor to hit them, either resisting it or taking no damage from it, respectively. They can also easily take all of Salamence's other hits, with the exception of Fire Blast for Jirachi. Pokemon that commonly run Assault Vest, like Scrafty, Ludicolo, or Conkeldurr, are less threatened by Salamence due to their increased bulk, and they carry moves that can threaten Salamence, like Ice Punch or Ice Beam. Pokemon with large special bulk, like Politoed and Cresselia, wall Salamence by taking little damage from its attacks, and both of these Pokemon can even deal super effective damage back with an Ice Beam.

Overview
########

+Great support ability: Intimidate
+Solid offensive stats
+Access to several extremely useful moves, mostly Tailwind
+Incredible special movepool
+Salamence gets competition from Hydrogein and Latios as a specially attacking Dragon-type, however its movepool, typing, and ability set it apart.
+Typing provides several defensive advantages
-Only good moveset is Specially attacking, while its only good STAB attack, Draco Meteor, forces it to switch out.
-Okay Special Attack stat
-Its Dragon / Flying typing leaves holes both offensively and defensively.


Special Attacker
########
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: Protect
move 4: Hyrdo Pump / Tailwind
ability: Intimidate
item: Life Orb / Yache Berry
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
nature: Timid / Modest

Moves
========

- Draco Meteor is a nuke, hitting hard with STAB and a Base Power of 130.
- Fire Blast sears through Steel-types, such as Aegislash and Scizor, that resist Draco Meteor.
- Protect is a staple of Doubles because it gives Salamence a free turn of safety. During this turn, Salamence's partner can take out whatever is threatening Salamence.
- Hydro Pump hits Fire-types, Ground-types, and Rock-types much harder than Draco Meteor or Fire Blast. Hydro Pump is a brilliant option that provides incredible coverage against Tyranitar and Heatran, some of the most common Pokemon in the metagame.
- Tailwind doubles the speed of Salamence and allies for four turns. This can help slower Pokemon keep up with faster threats.

Set Details
========

- Maximum Special Attack and Speed increase Salamence's sweeping potential.
- Life Orb increases damage output significantly, while Yache Berry covers for Salamence's Ice-type weakness which is a common attacking type in Doubles.
- 29 HP IVs if Life Orb; if Yache Berry, full HP IVs
- Timid increases Speed while Modest increases Special Attack, both at the expense of Attack. The increased Speed should be used to keep up with base 100 Speed Pokemon, like Mega Charizard-Y and Mega Kangaskhan.
- Intimidate lowers the Attack of both opposing Pokemon. This can inhibit a lot of would-be threats.

Usage Tips
========

- Use Protect to avoid dangerous attacks like Fake Out.
- Set up Tailwind to help slower Pokemon take out faster Pokemon.
- Salamence should switch in and out, using Draco Meteor, nuking some Pokemon, than switching out to rid itself of the Special Attack drop. This also reapplies the Intimidate.
- It switches in and out with relative ease, due to its defensive typing and Intimidate.
- Do not Intimidate Bisharp, Tornadus, or any other Defiant or Competitive Pokemon, because they will get a boost and deal tons of damage.
- Bisharp is going to be switching in every now and then, fishing for a Defiant boost, but a Fire Blast can nail it hard.

Team Options
========

- Slower Pokemon that benefit from a Speed boost give Salamence purpose in carrying Tailwind. Some examples are Heatran, Excadrill, Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Heracross, and Sylveon; what you want are slower Pokemon with bulk and offensive capability that just need Speed to be a threat .
- Fake Out support from Kangaskhan or Hitmontop can give Salamence a free turn to attack the opponent. This free turn is useful for Salamence to set up Tailwind or rattle off a super effective attack.
- Hitmontop can also provided Wide Guard and Helping Hand support, but the second Intimidate can be dangerous considering the prominence of Bisharp.
- Pokemon that Salamence can switch out to that absorb Ice-type attacks, like Rotom-W or Suicune.
- Helping Hand users, such as Cresselia and Jirachi, help increase Salamence's damage output.
- Steel-type Pokemon, such as Jirachi, Heatran, Aegislash, and Bisharp, take out Ice- and Fairy-type Pokemon with ease, as well as resist Ice-, Fairy-, and Dragon-type attacks.
-Jirachi can use Follow Me to redirect super-effective attacks aimed at Salamence whilst resisting all of Salamence's weaknesses.
-Aegislash provides Wide Guard support, which is excellent at deterring Rock Slide, Icy Wind, and Pixilate Hyper Voice.
-Bisharp deters Icy Wind through Defiant, whilst also benefiting immensely from Tailwind, due to its middling Speed.
- Scizor deals with Latios and Latias, while greatly appreciating Tailwind support.

Choice Scarf
########
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: Hydro Pump
move 4: Stone Edge
ability: Intimidate
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Modest

Moves
========

- Draco Meteor is an immensely powerful STAB nuke that halves Special Attack upon use.
- Fire Blast is used in order to destroy Steel-types that resist Draco Meteor.
- Hydro Pump deals with Landorus, as well as several dangerous Fire-types, like Heatran and Talonflame.
- Stone Edge deals with Mega Charizard-Y and Volcarona brilliantly.

Set Details
========

- Max Speed and Special Attack in order to pose the biggest threat to opposing teams.
- Choice Scarf increases Salamence's Speed dramatically, allowing it to outspeed the uboosted metagame.
- Modest increases Special Attack at the expense of Attack. Timid can be used to outspeed Choice Scarf Genesect and +2 base 70 Speed Pokemon, like Ludicolo in the rain or Bisharp with Tailwind, but the power drop is noticeable
- Attack EVs or an Attack positive nature are not necessary, as Stone Edge should OHKO Mega Charizard-Y and Volcarona.
- Intimidate lowers the Attack of both opposing Pokemon. This can improve Salamence's longevity.

Usage Tips
========

- If all attacks hit neutrally, Draco Meteor will hit for the most damage, so that is the preferred means of attack.
- However, the Special Attack drop from Draco Meteor will start to become apparent with increased usage, so be prepared to switch Salamence out.
- Be careful what move you lock Salamence into. Often times the wrong move could mean the game.
- It switches in and out with relative ease, due to its defensive typing and Intimidate.
- Stone Edge is solely intended for 4x effective damage against Mega Charizard-Y and Volcarona. Otherwise, it won't do that much damage.
- Do not Intimidate Bisharp, Tornadus, or any other Defiant or Competitive Pokemon, because they will get a boost and deal tons of damage.

Team Options
========

- While Choice Scarf Salamence is fast, there are still faster scarfers. Pokemon that take out these scarfers are useful, like Heatran to take out Timid Choice Scarf Genesect.
- Pokemon that Salamence can switch out to that absorb Ice-type attacks, like Rotom-W.
- Helping Hand users, such as Cresselia and Jirachi, help increase Salamence's damage output.
- Steel-type Pokemon, like Heatran, Jirachi, Aegislash, and Bisharp, deal with Ice- and Fairy-types with ease. They are also immensely useful for switch-ins, as they resist the Ice-, Fairy-, and Dragon-type attacks that scare Salamence.
-Jirachi can use Follow Me to redirect super-effective attacks aimed at Salamence whilst resisting all of Salamence's weaknesses.
-Aegislash provides Wide Guard support, which is excellent at deterring Rock Slide, Icy Wind, and Pixilate Hyper Voice.
-Bisharp deters Icy Wind through Defiant.

Other Options
########

- Flamethrower or Heatwave as a more accurate option over Fire Blast
- Dragon Pulse as a more conservation option over Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power Flying
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Pure Physical set-Aqua Tail, Earthquake, Crunch, Dragon Claw, Iron Tail, Shadow Claw, Zen Headbutt
- Moxie
- Roost

Checks & Counters
########

**Offensive Typing Advantage**: Ice-type attacks pose a massive threat to Salamence and are common in Doubles. Thundurus and Mega Manectric commonly carry Hidden Power Ice and easily outpace the special attacker set, but have trouble outspeeding the Choice Scarf set. An Abomasnow or Mamoswine Ice Shard will OHKO any Salamence without a Yache Berry and has priority to hit Salamence regardless of whether it has a Choice Scarf or not. Fairy-types are immune to Draco Meteor and deal considerable damage to Salamence. Slyveon and Mega Gardvoir especially pose a threat, as their massive Special Bulk allows them to survive Salamence's other attacks with ease. Azumarill resists Fire Blast and Hydro Pump, is immune to Draco Meteor, and can easily OHKO if it avoids the Intimidate Attack drop. Dragon-types deal super effective damage, so Garchomp or Kyurem-B outspeed the special attacker set and OHKO, while either of them with a Choice Scarf will outspeed the Choice Scarf set. Bisharp and Tornadus, as well as some other, less common Defiant Pokemon, have their Attack boosted when an Intimidate Pokemon switches in on them. Since Salamence should be running Intimidate, this makes them a problem, as it discourages Salamence from switching in. Bisharp, for example, can almost always OHKO with a Defiant-boosted Sucker Punch, while Tornadus will almost always OHKO with a Defiant-boosted Acrobatics.

**Speed Control**: Icy Wind will not only deal super effective damage on Salamence, it will slow Salamence and its partner down. Trick Room will make Salamence move last almost all of the time. Salamence is impeded by Thunder Wave or opposing Tailwind, especially on the Choice Scarf set, as it needs to outspeed to be a serious threat.

**Utility**: Priority Encore or Priority Taunt, from Whimsicott, lock the first set into a move or keep Salamence from using Tailwind or Protect, which could inhibit Salamence's usefulness. Even just fast Encore or Taunt can inhibit Salamence's usefulness, but most of the Pokemon that can get off a fast Encore can't comfortably take a Draco Meteor.

**Defensive**: Jirachi and Togekiss can force a Draco Meteor to hit them, either resisting it or taking no damage from it, respectively. They can also easily take all of Salamence's other hits, with the exception of Jirachi taking a Fire Blast. Pokemon that commonly run Assault Vest, like Scrafty, Ludicolo, or Conkeldurr, are less threatened by Salamence, due to their increased bulk, and carry moves that can threaten Salamence, like Ice Punch or Ice Beam. Pokemon with large Special Bulk, like Politoed and Cresselia, wall off Salamence by taking little damage from its attacks, and both of these Pokemon can even deal super effective damage back with an Ice Beam.
 
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Stratos

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The best set is DM/Fblast/Protect/ (hydro pump or tailwind). Ironically, 134 atk mence can't do physical well at all
 

BLOOD TOTEM

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Special is just better than phys in Doubles. Scarf is most used item and should be used as the first set.

Choice Scarf
########
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: Hydro Pump
move 4: Stone Edge / Rock Slide
ability: Intimidate
item: Life Orb / Yache Berry
evs: 4 HP 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

DMeteor / Fire Blast are obvious. Hpump deals with Tranner and Scarf Lando. Stone Edge is great for sniping Zard Y and TFlame, Rock Slide has better accuracy, flinch chance and spread but is way weaker and also prone to Wide Guard.

Special Attacker
########
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: Hydro Pump / Tailwind
move 4: Protect
ability: Intimidate
item: Life Orb / Yache Berry
evs: 4 HP 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Pretty Much the same as the above but you pick up Protect.

Edit @ Bellow: I'm cool with non scarf being first. I just don't have huge amounts of experience with either so based my decision off usage. That said, the fact that 30 percent are scarfed means 70 aren't I forgot to consider that :>
 
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Lord Alphose

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I realize that this needs to be filled out a little bit more, but I'll put it in QC in order to get some feedback while I continue.
 

Darkmalice

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Scarf is most used item and should be used as the first set.
ladder metagame usage stats said:
Items | | Yache Berry 39.031% | | Life Orb 19.051% | | Choice Scarf 17.631% | | Leftovers 8.796% | | Lum Berry 5.931% | | Choice Specs 1.819% | | Dragon Fang 1.686% | | Assault Vest 1.371% | | Other 4.683% | +-----------------
I agree with Pwnemon that the second set is the best, so I would list that before Scarf - sorry Totem

Also Slash Modest on both sets. The extra power is handy

I'll comment on more later after you've finished with your skeleton Alphose.
 
Overview:
  • I would probably mention that its only STAB attack forces it to switch out before it can attack again, making it easier to play around.
  • Sum up the bottom two bullets into a generic "its typing has a lot of holes offensively and defensively" statement. We don't need that specific of detail.
  • It's Special attack is more "okay", than "lacking".
Moves:
  • Fire Blast doesn't hit Fairy-types any harder than any other neutral type :/ Just leave it as hitting Steel-types.
  • I wouldn't say Hydro Pump is for Terrakion, as Salamence is outspeed and KOed easily by it.
  • Make sure you don't have any extra bullets with repeated ideas.
Usage Tips:
  • The part about Salamence not being able to switch in against a lot of the meta is not true. With Intimidate and a great defensive typing, it is more able to switch in than most of Doubles. Also, it kinda has to switch around due to its only STAB's SpAtk drop.
  • Set up Tailwind ASAP.
  • Plays hit-and-run with Draco Meteor.
Team Options:
  • Running double Intimidate is very bad with Bisharp in the meta. Take out the first bullet.
  • Helping Hand users increase its damage output.
  • Make sure you list specific examples in each bullet.
Set #2

Set:
  • Take out Rock Slide. With a Timid Nature and being a spread move, it is piss weak. It doesn't even KO Zard Y. Stone Edge does fine.
  • Modest is the only nature it needs imo, as it still outspeeds Deoxys-A, the fastest unboosted threat in Doubles. And the power is kinda important.
Moves:
  • Once again, Fire Blast doesn't hit Fairy-types especially hard.
  • Add Hydro Pump is for Heatran.
  • Hydro Pump is a more reliable attack to deal with Talonflame; just say Stone Edge is for Zard-Y and Volcarona.
Usage Tips:
  • Once again, Salamence plays a hit-and-run style. You can even repeat the mention of how easily it can switch in with Intimidate and its typing because it is a different set.
  • Take out the bullet about Stone Edge, you already said the exact same thing earlier.
Team Options:
  • Tailwind support for a Scarf Pokemon? It would be better just to list partners that can handle the faster scarfers such as Timid Genesect (which is the only scarfer that is faster that i can think of). Heatran wrecks Genesect and synergizes nicely, so put that.
  • No double Intimidate
  • List more Steel-types, and focus more on their ability to take out Ice-, Fairy-, and Dragon-types than their ability to take a hit of that type.
Other Options:
  • No Defog pls
Checks & Counters:
  • Make sure you specify which set (or both) that the listed counters beat.
  • You can combine all of the tags that just list a specific type of Pokemon into an **Offensive Typing Advantages** tag to save space and remain organized.
  • Ice Shard stops all but Yache Mence. HP Ice is common and on fast Pokes such as Thundurus and Mega Manectric so it needs to be watched out for.
  • BISHARP.
  • Sylveon and Mega Gardevoir should be mention as Fairy-types, as their special bulk can handle any of mence's attacks.
  • No Stealth Rock tab pls and Sticky Web is unseen in Doubles.
  • A **Utility** tab works well because Salamence is stopped by Thunder Wave (especially the Scarf set), Tailwind teams (for just the scarf set), Assault Vest Pokes, Priority Encore, Priority Taunt
 
I would add the draco part in the overview to a bullet about how it's only good doubles movesets are special, because it obviously has a stab outrage and dragon claw.

list specific tailwind partners

Bisharp doesn't need its own tab it can fit into offensive typing advantages

list specific popular assault vest users

you dont need to say mega gardevoir in defensive because you already said it in offensive typing advantages.
 

Lord Alphose

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Bisharp doesn't need its own tab it can fit into offensive typing advantages
I did this, but my logic was pretty much based off of Bisharp's stark difference in how he threatens Salamence and its team. Instead of being a problem because it straight up attacks the opponent, its a problem because of something Salamence does, namely, switching in. Just pointing out that I'm not crazy.

For tl;dr, implemented
 
I agree Bisharp is a special case. If other QC members want something different it won't bother me much.

Hitmontop and Ttar dont run Ass Vest. Good users are Scrafty and Ludicolo.

You didn't add partners that appreciate tailwind. :o
 

Lord Alphose

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I agree Bisharp is a special case. If other QC members want something different it won't bother me much.

Hitmontop and Ttar dont run Ass Vest. Good users are Scrafty and Ludicolo.

You didn't add partners that appreciate tailwind. :o
- I'll leave it together for now.
- I must have been looking at the wrong usage stats, because they both had Assault Vests as relatively common items. But it shall be changed.
- Lol, I put it in the wrong spot.
 
You probs used ou's usage stats i guess idk. The ladder is pretty bad nonetheless.

Aegislash is 2slow4tailwind, add cool stuff like Mega Kanga, Mega Hera, and Sylveon :o

Thx QC 1/3
 

Darkmalice

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Overview
Mention that it has competition from other specially orientated Dragon-types like Latios and Hydriegon, but its ability, movepool, and dfferent typing distinguish it from them. Whilst definitely not outclassed by them or inferior to them, the competition is there.
Special attacker
Salamence should switch in and out, using Draco Meteor, nuking some Pokemon, than switching out to rid itself of the Special Attack drop.
Add that you reset Intimidate by switching out too. Intimidate is one of the big perks of using it compared to Hydreigon and Latios

- Steel-type Pokemon, such as Jirachi and Heatran, take out Ice- and Fairy-type Pokemon with ease, as well as resist Ice-, Fairy-, and Dragon-type attacks.
Add Aegislash and Bisharp too. Also to mention about individual Steel-types:
-Jirachi can use Follow Me to redirect super-effective attacks aimed at Salamence whilst resisting all of Salamence's weaknesses
-Aegislash provides Wide Guard support, which is excellent at deterring Rock Slide, Icy Wind, and Pixilate Hyper Voice
-Bisharp deters Icy Wind through Defiant, whilst also benefiting immensely from Tailwind.


- Fake Out support from Kangaskhan or Hitmontop can give Salamence a free turn to attack the opponent. This free turn is useful for Salamence to set up Tailwind or rattle off a super effective attack.
Hitmontop can also provide Wide Guard and Helping Hand support, however, the extra Intimidate puts you at great risk of activating opposing Bisharp's Defiant. Whilst I'm not against having two Intimidators on the same team, I am against suggesting it, and I am only making an exception for Hitmontop as it offers quite a bit of support to Salamence. Your average Joe reading this will forget to consider Bisharp.

- Helping Hand users, such as Whimsicott and Jirachi, help increase Salamence's damage output.
Mention Cresselia instead of Whimsicott; Cresselia is a better and more common Pokemon.

IVs should be 29 IVs to lessen Life Orb damage with remaining EVs into Special Defence (for Download users). AC mention that if using Yache Berry, IV HPs should be maxed.

Scarf set

- Steel-type Pokemon, like Heatran and Mawile, deal with Ice- and Fairy-types with ease. They are also immensely useful for switch-ins, as they resist the Ice-, Fairy-, and Dragon-type attacks that scare Salamence.
Remove Mawile. Intimidate.

This is very similar to the Steel-type mention of the first set, so I would briefly mention what you mention in 1st set, taking into account that Mence is Scarfed and not using Tailwind. Also mention that Bisharp and Aegislash are effective at checking TR settlers, as Scarf Mence is useless under TR.

- Physically weak Pokemon appreciate the Intimidate support.
I would actually remove this. Almost every Pokemon enjoy the support. Furthermore, the physically weak Pokemon may actually be some of the Pokemon that make less use out of it. Bulky Pokemon's bulk becomes that much more notable with Intimidate, where as frail Pokemon only improve from frail to average and are still easily 2HKOed or OHKOed with super-effective attacks (and some like Deoxys remain frail).

Also remove the Fake Out mention. Scarf Salamence will very likely be moving first, so it doesn't need the support.

AC mention that Timid nature can be used to outrun positive nature Choice Scarf Genesect, and +2 neutral nature 70s (Ludicolo in rain, Bisharp with a Tailwind boost), but the extra Speed is usually not worth the power drop.

OO is good

Checks and counters


Offensive
Mention that Mega Manetricand Thundurus outpeed Salamence (just not when using a Scarf).

Definitely mention Azumarill with Fairy-types - it resists Draco Meteor, Fire Blast, and Hydro Pump, and it will OHKO if it can avoid Intimidate.

Remove Choice Scarf from Garchomp; Garchomp rarely carries Scarf and outspeeds Salamence without it. ALso add they will be outspeed if Salamence carries a Scarf of its own.

Also mention that Bisharp has a 93.8% chance of OHKOing Salamence with Sucker Punch if it gets a Defiant Boost.

Mention that Tornadus can also get a Defiant boost and has a chance to OHKO wiht +1 Acrobactics (guaranteed after one turn of Life Orb recoil), where as Tornadus will never be OHKOed by a Draco Meteor assuming there is no Life Orb boost.

Utility
You can mention faster Encore and Taunt with priority Encore and Taunt. Mention, however, that users of faster or priority Encore and Taunt generally do not enjoy tanking a hit from Draco Meteor or one of its coverage moves, so prediction is needed when using them.

Tailwind Thunder Wave should be mentioned under a separate Speed Control tab. Also mention Icy Wind and Trick Room here, they are more threatening than the fomer two. Icy WInd also deals a lot of damage to Salamence, and Salamence does not function well under TR, especially the TR set.

Defensive
You absolutely must mention that Togekiess and Jirachi can redirect Salamence's Draco Meteor and resist them (or be immune to them). They can also tank Salamence's other attacks thanks to their special bulk with the exception of Fire Blast on Jirachi. Togekiss can also 2HKo with Dazzling Gleam. Before the speciallu bulky Pokemon like Politoed.

Mention Cress with Pokemon with large special bulk before Politoed (removing Togkiess as it was mentioend above).
 
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Lord Alphose

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M'kay.
Tailwind Thunder Wave should be mentioned under a separate Speed Control tab. Also mention Icy Wind and Trick Room here, they are more threatening than the fomer two. Icy WInd also deals a lot of damage to Salamence, and Salamence does not function well under TR, especially the TR set.
I actually originally had these under separate tabs, but was told to join them together. But I separated them again.

Oh, but yeah. Implemented.
 
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BLOOD TOTEM

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Overview
  • I wouldn't say they're great offensive stats, it's more decent stats coupled with good coverage
Moves
  • Expand on Protect, talk about how teammates can handle threats to mence while it Protects
  • You oversell Hydro Pump a bit, just say it rounds of the coverage and lets you hit w/e
  • Just say Tailwind allows slower teammates to handle faster threats easier, Smogon Doubles is a metagame not a tier :>
Set Details
  • Say why you'd chose Timid if you want to tie with the base 100 Spe threats like Zard Y and MKhan and beat shit like Gene and co
Usage Tips
  • You can generalize the bit about Protect a bit more, say you use it to avoid troublesome attacks such as fake out. Drop the ''it's better to wait a turn and be sure than to die needlessly.''
  • For TWind, you don't need it as soon as possible. Just say to get it up when a teammate is too slow to handle a certain threat or somth.
Team Options
  • You forgot the n in sylveon n_n

Set 2
Set Details
  • I think you undersell mence's defenses here, Just say that Intimidate improves bulk and longevity or somth
Other Options
  • ROOST

Implement for 2/3 =]
 

Electrolyte

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Overview:
- Typically, being forced to switch out from moves like DMeteor is annoying, but not really in this case. Mence is a hit and run attacker; it can take advantage of DMeteor easily because it doesn't mind swtching in & out, all the while adding more Intimidate. All it usually needs to do once it switches in is set Tailwind / KO one thing and then you should call it back. (probs should mention this in Usage Tips too)
- Its typing doesn't only hurt it. Mence resist Water, Fire, Fighting, and Grass, which is pretty big. It's also immune to EQ, which is always a boon.


Special Attacker:

Moves:
- Fire Blast also hits Bisharp hard, notable because it'll be jumping around, trying to get a boost from you.

Usage Tips:
- Look @ my overview comments.

Teammates:
- Scizor! It checks Lati@s, provides priority BP to beat Terrakion, and absolutely loves Tailwind.


Choice Scarf:

Moves:
- Don't think Grass-types are worth a mention with Fire Blast; I guess Amoonguss can spore you but you wall them anyway and it's not like Fire Blast is gonna KO it.
- Without LO / Yache, Hydro Pump cannot be used to beat TTar, as 252+ HPump cannot 2HKO 252/0 TTar in Sand. Heatran too, but Heatran can't hurt you so it doesn't really matter

Set Details:
- Explain how things like Mild nature isn't necessary because Stone Edge is only meant as coverage for Zard Y and Talonflame, both of which it OHKOs regardless.

Team Options:
- Scizor again
- The Scarf sets appreciates offensive typing coverage support too. Throw in Poison-types like MGengar to trap + kill fairies so DMeteor spam isn't interrupted.
- Don't forget Helping Hand!



Everything else was solid
Not QC so take these suggestions as you will
 
Overview:
  • by no means is its supporting potential unmatched.
  • You cant really call it a special sweeper either because it has to switch out every time it uses its STAB.
  • "allow it to take out its enemies" implies that Salamence can OHKO whatever it wants, which it cannot.
  • I would add something to the Special attacking part like "Due to the high presence of Intimidate and Burn, as well as Outrage's shaky nature in Doubles, Salamence is forced to use its weaker Special Attack stat blablabla..." This way the reader isn't confused about why Salamence isn't using its Higher Base Attack stat.
  • It's movepool doesn't differentiate itself from Hydreigon and Latios (they have better movepools, higher Special Attack, and a secondary STAB), Intimidate does. Mention that Intimidate is the ONLY reason to use it over one of those threats.
  • Add Rock to types it hates.
I'm not gonna go through the rest of this right now. Go through this and make sure you don't oversell it anywhere and check again that all your info is accurate. Look for corrections similar to the ones I made in the overview. In addition, you don't have to read off the definition of each attack, such as the base power, you explain why it is used (ex: most efficient STAB, hits this pokemon, etc.)

At the moment there is quite a bit of stuff to fix, so please clean this up to a point that a QC can focus on Salamence themselves instead of worrying about your general writing.
 

Lord Alphose

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Well, I've never been told that I've oversold something. Dang. I'll go back through and make it sound less appealing.
 

Lord Alphose

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Alright, the majority of these Problems were in the Overview. The rest of it is accurate, as far as I can tell.
 

Darkmalice

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Alright, the majority of these Problems were in the Overview. The rest of it is accurate, as far as I can tell.
Nah there's more. Some obvious, some not so obvious



In overview, Intimidate isn't the only reason to use Salamence over the other Dragon-types, but it is the main one. Reword the last sentence of the last paragraph. You can also add typing to the second sentence of the same paragraph (Flying-type has some useful resists like Fighting-type, and Bug-type can be useful too e.g. when paired with Cress and Tyranitar)

1st set
Hydro Pump hits Fire-types, Ground-types, and Rock-types much harder than Draco Meteor or Fire Blast. Hydro Pump is a brilliant option that provides coverage against Tyranitar and Heatran, some of the most common Pokemon in the metagame.
You oversell Hydro Pump. Hydro Pump is good or even great but not brilliant. It doesn't offer much additional neutral coverage which is what you really want with Draco Meteor. It's mainly useful for Heatran and for avoiding the special drop from Draco Meteor against Pokemon weak to Hydro Pump.

Salamence should switch in and out, using Draco Meteor, nuking some Pokemon, than switching out to rid itself of the Special Attack drop.
Nuking a Pokemon, not some.

Defiant Pokemon, such as Bisharp, Tornadus, or several other, less significant, Pokemon, get an attack boost when Intimidated, making them more dangerous as threats. A Fire Blast can nail Bisharp pretty hard, though.
You can just say Defiant Pokemo, such as Bisharp and Tornadus, get an attack boost etc. It's not even worth mentioning others, as said other Pokemon aren't significant. Mention that these said two Pokemon have a chance to OHKO Salamence after the boost (93.6% with Sucker Punch and 37.5% chance with Acrobatics respectively).

Fire Blast against Bisharp isn't relevant when +1 LO Sucker Punch has a 93.6% of OHKOing. Remove it.

Some examples are Heatran, Excadrill, Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Heracross, and Sylveon; what you want are slower Pokemon with bulk and offensive capability that just need Speed to be a threat.
Also add that these Pokemon already noticeable bulk is amplified by Intimidate

2nd set
Hydro Pump deals with Landorus, as well as several dangerous Fire-types, like Heatran and Talonflame.
Heatran is the main concern with Hydro Pump, not Landorus. You could rephrase it to hitting Fire- Ground, and Rock-types, especially Heatran who resists Draco Meteor and receives a Flash Fire boost from Fire Blast.

Stone Edge deals with Mega Charizard-Y and Volcarona brilliantly. Despite being a physical move in a special set, it hits 4x effectively against some of these extremely common Pokemon and merits use despite its abnormality, its an important move to have.
Add Talonflame to this list.

Mention that Stone Edge is preferred over Rock Slide because Rock Slide does not have a guaranteed OHKO against Mega Charizard Y, and if Salamence is affected by the ever common Iintimidate, Rock Slide will never OHKO but Stone Edge will still always OHKO.

Attack EVs or an Attack positive nature are not necessary, as Stone Edge will OHKO Mega Charizard-Y and Volcarona barring a miss


Intimidate lowers the Attack of both opposing Pokemon. This can improve Salamence's longevity.
Not just Salamence's, the team as a whole. You can add that it gels well with Salamence's hit and run nature

There should be more emphasis on revenge killing and hit-and-run in Usage Tips

While Choice Scarf Salamence is fast, there are still faster Choice Scarf users, so Pokemon that can check or counter these Pokemon are useful. An example is using Heatran to take out Timid Choice Scarf Genesect.
It is not only limited to Choice Scarf users, so you can say Pokemon that can outspeed Choice Scarf Salamence instead. Mention examples in the first sentence - Timid Scarf Genesect and Sand Rush Excadrill in sandstorm are good examples. Rotom-W can check Excadrill, as well as Heatran.

Also try to change the wording of Team Options so that it's not so similar to that in the first section. You can make it more concise as well seeing as you're repeaitng stuff.



OO
Flamethrower or Heatwave are both a more safe option than Fire Blast as they have better accuracy.
Safe is not the best word to describe it (it's not more safe if it misses out on a KO that Fire Blast does). More accurate but less powerful is better. Mention Heat Wave is a spread attack that hits both opponents but has even less power. Probably good to have one sentence for Flamethrower and another for Heat Wave.
This set's potential power is also augmented by Moxie, which would increase its power for every Pokemon that it KOes.
Moxie can be used with such a set, but Intimidate provides a much more consistent benefit

Counters and checks
Dragon-types deal super effective damage, so Garchomp or Kyurem-B outspeed the special attacker set and OHKO, while either of them with a Choice Scarf will outspeed the Choice Scarf set.
Replace with Latios

Bisharp and Tornadus, as well as some other, less common Defiant Pokemon, have their Attack boosted when an Intimidate Pokemon switches in on them. Since Salamence should be running Intimidate, this makes them a problem, as it discourages Salamence from switching in. Bisharp, for example, can almost always OHKO with a Defiant-boosted Sucker Punch, while Tornadus will almost always OHKO with a Defiant-boosted Acrobatics
1) Bisharp and Tornadus are the only notable users, you don't need to mention other Defiant Pokemon.
2) Tornadus will not almost always OHKO. 37.5% chance.
3) can be made more concise. You don't need to say stuff like when an Intimidate Pokemon switches in on them, just say Salamence thanks to Intimidate (this is an analysis about Salamence, not other Intimidate usrs). you also don't need to say since Salamence should be running Intimidate, pretty much just says it


This should be good to go for GP after all this is implemented, but I want myself or another QC member to check it first
 
The way i read it was "stone edge is the last move so salamence can hit talonflame" (implying it couldnt hit talonflame before) and i just meant to say that hydro also hit it already, but yea obv stone egde hits harder. Just a wording issue with me sorry.
 

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