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Salamence

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Aerrow, Sep 19, 2010.

  1. thatgirl

    thatgirl

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    All this talk about Mence falling to UU is ridiculous. Dragonite was severly outclassed for the longest time in Gen4, but he never fell to UU.
  2. Destiny Warrior

    Destiny Warrior also known as Darkwing_Duck
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

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    Electivire didn't fall to UU. Would you call it an important, gamechanging threat?
  3. IcyMan28

    IcyMan28

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    Mence may have "lost" quite a bit, but it is still quite viable, especially this meta with the rain lost. It is the best option if you need a Dragon Dancer, and ScarfChomp has declined in use quite a bit. The flying type + intimidate helps against fighting-types as well, and it pulls off a great mixed DD set. Disregard it at your peril.
  4. Destiny Warrior

    Destiny Warrior also known as Darkwing_Duck
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

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    This is a lot more fair judgement of Salamence. The problem with Mence is not that its too weak, its that people kind of forget to sue it because of all the powerful things running around. That's why its possible it'll go to UU, because people forget it, rather than it being too weak.
  5. IcyMan28

    IcyMan28

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    Exactly. I'm actually kind of hoping no one remembers Mence, as the DD / Fire Blast / DM / Outrage set is great. Mence has not been left behind at all as far as offense goes.
  6. gabezj

    gabezj

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    I dont think ive ever seen an electivire besides just once or twice, how was it ever used enough to be OU? Anyway, Salamence wont be going to UU, after a dragon dance he out speeds both scarf hydreigon and latios, two big threats. he also still has great attacking stats and an amazing movepool.
  7. JSND

    JSND

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    This gen everyone forget that almost everything that keep mence OU in DP return.
    We have Garchomp, Pory2 IMPROVEEDDDDDDD, and some shit that can take his attacks.

    But i think saying UU isnt to crazy. I mean, lets say terakion become UU(like PO server no offend just an example). The reason things become UU or OU is something is not used much(usualy as of now from lack of development) and everyone judge it to be bad and not using it enough time. What bad from this is the fact that if something is legitimatelly a Top OU threats but is UU, it might happen that most are blinded that that thing is not broken because yeah on that tier the top threats is HIS counter(this is what exactly happen to terrakion on beta server.) while OU cant handle him as well as "UU".
  8. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    BL is technically UU's ubers, so I'm theorymonning that he ends up there, since running a mixed set has the potential to eat a lot of stuff in UU.
  9. Fluffy Otters

    Fluffy Otters

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    UU/BL is going to be really interesting this time around with so many new things (by sheer volume) forcing formerly good pokemon down. I mean OU pokemon last time around like Infernape, Swampert, Latias (only because Latios exists although there are certain advantages to using it), Cresselia (with all the new power, Cresselia might finally be UU seeing as no one uses it and you need something to take base 147 Outrages in UU unless Haxorus gets banned which would be totally understandable), etc as well as new ones like Haxorous, Chandelure (without Shadow Tag, I wonder how that is going to work out, ban S-Tag in UU?), Zoroark (bleh, ignore this at your peril, I see this as BL-low OU), Kyurem (I predict this to utterly destroy much of UU and totally BL, I'm disappointed people don't use it because he's awesome), etc.

    But I doubt Salamence will ever drop to UU (or even be allowed). It's power is still phenomenal and it no longer needs +spd natures usually since tying with base 100s seems a bit pointless this time around since things are either faster or slower. Draco Meteor+/Outrage spamming is deadly and unlike Haxorus, has a fire move to kill through common Nattorei, Forretress, and Skarmory (although all of those would need to beware of +2 Outrages since even they are 2 hit koed, Skarmory could Whirlwind and Nattorei paralyze and Forretress Counter but ouch). Being able to hit both sides hard with the almighty 140 Draco Meteor and 120 Outrage resisted only by Steel hurts. And you could double up on Dragons since there are only so many steels that can be had on the opponents team and Salamence can clear the way for things like Latias/Latios, Garchomp, etc. Having 2 things to tear apart the opponent's team with Draco Meteor hurts and while Salamence's isn't as strong as Latios' or Sazandora's, it hurts a lot and still 2 hit koes many things (140 stab hello). Intimidate is also useful to weaken physical hits. Salamence can also run bulky (although I prefer Dragonite for that, Salamence does have some useful things there too with Wish and Intimidate).

    What do people think of Dragon Dance/Brick Break/Outrage/Fireblast? Brick Break still hits floaters and Fireblast/Outrage still kill everything else (except things like Porygon 2 which will give trouble). The power of 607+Life Orb (after 1 Dragon Dance) is awesome. Still, Salamence is thankfully held somewhat in check this time around with things like the new and improved P-2, Latios (before Dragon Dance), Voltlos (before Dragon Dance and could paralyze), Tornelos, Latios, Scizor and Starmie are still around, etc. Still, Salamence can still do the holy terror and kick butt so it's still freaking awesome.
  10. voodoo pimp

    voodoo pimp Apply directly to the forehead
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    Salamence should definitely still run +Spd. Aside from speed tying with other base 100s, he really needs to stay ahead of Haxorus and Hydreigon.
  11. IcyMan28

    IcyMan28

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    Eh. The only other base 100s he will commonly be tying with are max speed Volcarona and maybe Jirachi. Haxorus isn't really common enough, IMO, but I'll give you Hydreigon. There is also +speed Gliscor to consider, so that's another point toward +Spe.
  12. BattleStar

    BattleStar

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    I predict salmence will be a bit more defensive this generation
  13. Innocent Criminal

    Innocent Criminal

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    Don't forget that the metagame is still far from stabilized... Underrated 5th Gen pokemons are still being discovered (*cough* Tornadus *cough*), and Terakion seeing such low usage is probably the best example, as there's no way it will end up UU/BL. Salamence isn't used much because of all the fancy new stuff, but with the fall of Steel/Normal Priority in favor of Fighting (and somewhat Water) making up for its new checks, it's still a very potent threat.
  14. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    Terrakion is already being used far too much to fall to UU. As is Salamence.
  15. PlatinumDude

    PlatinumDude

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    How so? Salamence's specialty has been straight-out offense since Gen III. Yes, it can do defensive sets, but Dragonite can do it much better.
  16. Katakiri

    Katakiri Listen, Brendan...
    is a Pokemon Researcher

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    I wouldn't be surprised if Salamence goes the Gyarados route this Gen and Bulky Dragon Dance with Intimidate becomes one of his stables. For a while at least.
  17. jamashawalker

    jamashawalker

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    Couldnt agree more! Salamence will always be that beast to look out for...right now it is not outshine nor outclassed by anything, just alot of people want to try out something new lol i wonder though if we'll be back on the topic again about banning him to ubers..but i dont think so
  18. jamashawalker

    jamashawalker

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    Well there are 156 new pokes around this time lol so yeah they have to fill in somewhere..lol might really be over 150 NUs
  19. VaporeonIce

    VaporeonIce

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    I still stand by a usage based tier system (anything else seems really arbitrary), but I've been wondering lately whether people have thought about expanding OU at all. Obviously, there are more Pokemon this generation, so it makes sense that there might be more OU-viable Pokemon. Has anyone thought about increasing the cutoff percentage? I guess that sort of discussion might wait until we have official Smogon usage statistics, though.
  20. Kefka Palazzo™

    Kefka Palazzo™

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    People seem to forget that UU =/= Bad pokemon.

    Poor Salamence :/
  21. MtNiesen

    MtNiesen

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    this was a really fun set to use, nothing ground breaking, but more fun...
    Salamence @ life orb/ (i'm consedering rechargeable battery...)
    hasty
    moxie
    252 spe/176att/80spa
    ~draco meteor
    ~fire blast
    ~dragon claw
    ~earthquake

    outrage at times can be a hinderance, and well, the goal with this guy is to just kill stuff, draco meteor, and fire blast are to kill physcical walls, then just keep up your killing spree!!(or at least don't die)
  22. alphatron

    alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!

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    Moxie and outrage is illeagal since outrage is a move tutor 4th gen move.
  23. MtNiesen

    MtNiesen

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    i know, and i'm perfectly fin using dragon claw, you're harder to revenge that way, not being stuck and all...
  24. the kbxe

    the kbxe

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    I seriously don't understand that system.

    This means that just because some Pokémon like for example Latios isn't used much, then it ends in UU? Can Latios be in UU? No. So this system doesn't seem to be working well does it?
  25. Lucindril

    Lucindril

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    Not really relevant to the conversation, but I've found MixMence to be more effective this Generation, at least for me. Dragon Dancing just allows the opponent to tease you by switching in and out their Steel-types, preventing you from using Outrage and confining you to Fire Blast and Earthquake, which have a far lower damage roll and will often get your Salamence killed by residual damage and/or misprediction before you can seriously hurt anything. Most people expect a Dragon Dance and switch to something to (p)haze it, only to get a Draco Meteor to the face. And if they then switch to a special wall when it's switched back in again, you can nail them with Outrage. It's pretty effective.

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