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Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Aerrow, Sep 19, 2010.

  1. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Dec 22, 2004
    Mostwanted, Outrage is legal with Moxie! Dragon Dance + Outrage is illegal with Moxie.

    I still think CB is the way to go, since it already packs a punch, and Moxie-boost would just make it even a more unstoppable wall-breaker. It also already has decent Speed to outrun common mons like Lucario, Dragonite, Haxorus, etc.
  2. LizardMan

    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion

    Aug 20, 2008
    It seems like Outrage is the special move available on DW Bagon, so it looks like we can have that "really good" idea. :D

    Definitly going to use Sub DD though. Seems to have so much potential if you lead with it against the right pokemon.
  3. Run

    Run Poster of the Month

    Mar 27, 2009
    I can finally post my MixMoxMence (if nobody else has already)

    Salamence @ LO
    Ability: Moxie
    Nature: Mild, Rash (+SpA, -Def/SpD)
    EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 Atk
    -Dragon Claw
    -Draco Meteor

    Simply plow through a mon with Draco Meteor then switch to physical attacks, or finish off a weak enemy and Draco Meteor the physical wall that comes in when it sees moxie. Very potent set. EVs may need tweaking.
  4. CanadiEntei


    Oct 1, 2010
    So what kind of damage could a Power Herb Fly deal to Fighting threats, before and maybe after a +1 from Moxie?
    Once upon a time, Salamence was my HM Slave for GBA...

    And with Moxie out, should Fire Blast still always be used versus Fire Fang?
  5. alphatron

    alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!

    Oct 5, 2010
    ^Definitely. Fire blast is used to ohko things like skarmory afterall, who would shurg off your pitiful +1 attacks without it. Actually, I'd recommend fire blast even more on moxiemence, since it will net you the moxie boost for your physical moves when you take out the opposing steel type.

    Currently running this guy with DD mixed set and 40 attack EVs on a sun team with Wobb support for scarfers. Specifically, just 2 scarfers. We all know who they are.
  6. Joel


    May 15, 2009
    I've seen Sub/DD Gyarados run Waterfall plus either Stone Edge, or Bounce. Bounce for extra turns of Lefties recovery and so as to not be walled by Ferrothorn.

    Maybe Sub/DD Mence could run Earthquake plus Fly? @_@
  7. NoUserName


    Jan 31, 2010
    I think DD Outrage Moxie Salamence altogether would be too much.
  8. blarajan

    blarajan Rest in Bling
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a defending SPL Champion
    VGC Co-Leader

    Aug 29, 2010
    Choice Band Outrage MoxieMence. GGGGGG. I'm so excited to use that.

    892 attack after a KO? Yes please.
  9. Dr. Alex

    Dr. Alex

    Jan 23, 2011
    Wouldn't Naive be better? (+Spe, -SpDef)
  10. Choice Socks

    Choice Socks

    Jan 15, 2010
    I hope Mence can take his place as the king dragon of OU again now. So to clear up the confusion can he has Moxie, DD and Outrage at once, or not?
  11. breh

    breh 強いだね

    Feb 6, 2010
    even though it's been reiterated quite a bit, pick only two of the following:
    dragon dance

    for a set.
  12. bluemon


    Oct 21, 2010
    moxie+dd legal
    moxie+outrage legal
    moxie+dd+outrage illegal
  13. Blue Kirby

    Blue Kirby Never back down.
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis a Past SPL and WCoP Champion

    Nov 1, 2007
    You can have Moxie + DD or Moxie + Outrage, but not both. Assuming you want to use Moxie at all.

    At least initially, I plan on trying the mixed offense route with Moxie. I'm still not convinced I won't just switch back to Intimidate though. Remember that without it, you're only looking at 196 Defense; switching in on those Fighting attacks won't be as easy as it used to be, and that's normally a great way to get Salamence into play. It doesn't take long for secondary damage to build up. Maybe people will find a more permanent slot for Roost.
  14. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Dec 22, 2004
    I could actually see MoxieMence being fierce in a Dual Screen HO Team. It wouldn't miss its Intimidate too much with Reflect up. Let your other mons bang up the opponent's walls so that Salamence can take one out with +1 LO DClaw, and then rest is history.

    Run's MixMoxieMence certainly seems terrifying for slower teams to face, though :o
  15. Aeromence


    Jun 3, 2011
    read my sig lol.

    can't wait til outrage is up on the server. Finally Mence can shine, not as a dragonite that doesn't need spinning, but as the boss that he was made to be. personally, I already love spamming banded or scarfed dclaws. When Outrage is on the server... god
  16. Kaos


    Oct 30, 2011
    I don't see why you would be running Moxie over Intimidate on MixMence. If your opponent allows you to sweep with a MixMence, they probably wouldn't be too hard to beat anyway. Also, Chansey, an increasingly common mon on stall teams, walks all over this set. Even Blissey isn't threatened by it. And uninvested EQ does very little to Jirachi. If you are lucky enough to be facing a full stall team without any of these three mons, you'll fare very well, but otherwise Intimidate is gonna be better than Moxie. Besides, normal MixMence is threatening enough to most stall.

    The one place where MoxieMence is better without a doubt than Intimidate Mence is as a SmashPass recipient. Moxie prevents people from making all the sacrifices they normally resort to to take a recipient down. Ironically, it's especially nice against Intimidate-users, who could otherwise slow you down with repeated switch-ins. Here's the set that took me to 1400 tonight:

    Salamence (M) @ Leftovers/Lum Berry
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 148 SAtk / 108 Spd
    Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
    - Dragon Claw
    - Flamethrower
    - Earthquake
    - Substitute/Brick Break/Hidden Power (Grass)

    The extra power boosts from Moxie secure your KOs, so you can run Lefties to cancel out Sand and buffer you against priority when Sand isn't up, or Lum to help with status. The speed EVs let you outspeed Scarf Base 110s at +2, which is extremely important right now with Scarf Gengars and Latios' popping up (did you know that both those guys outspeed Modest Chlorosaur? Damn...). Dumping some or all of the SpA EVs into Speed isn't a bad idea, as a little more speed lets it beat Scarf Starmie (an admittedly rare sight), and a lot more guarantees you don't get outrun by the odd heavily-invested Chlorophyller. You should never really be straying from your Naughty Nature though, as losing the physical power for speed just isn't worth it. Dragon Claw is the better option for your main STAB even once Outrage is usable, as the confusion and move-locking is really bad for a receiver. EQ and Flamethrower are the vital coverage, with Flamethrower being taken over Fire Blast because at +2 SpA you get all the needed OHKOs out of Rain, and in Rain Ferrothorn is a 2HKO either way. The last move is a tough decision. If you're running Leftovers, Substitute is very nice for status protection, especially vs Ferrothorn under Rain. It can also provide a buffer against anxious priority-users. Obviously Substitute is retarded with Lum. Alternatively, Brick Break can be used to power through Chansey and Rain Ferro much more easily, or HP Grass can be used with the sole purpose of hitting Quagsire, who otherwise walls you to high heaven.

    Really, the only thing that's gonna reliably stop Smash-receiving Mence is priority, a lot of which Mence is weak or neutral too. Having a backup receiver that resists a lot of the priority Mence is weak or neutral to is often a good idea (Steel-types come to mind).
  17. Katakiri

    Katakiri Listen, Brendan...
    is a Pokemon Researcher

    Jun 11, 2010
    Were you that guy that kept Taunting my Uxie with Deoxys-S only to get U-turned then KO'd by Dragonite's Extremespeed, and then had your Gorebyss & Huntail Shell Smash only to have my Ninetales use Power Swap...twice?

    If not, then there's more than one person using this exact same strategy. It seems like it would work fine but the guy I was playing was using it as his main strategy and he had nothing left once I broke it. 4 Pokemon with good synergy and then Gorebyss & Salamence would probably work great, but I really would base my entire team around trying to get a Greedymence sweep.

    Oh and Scarf Greedymence is the worst Pokemon in the game. It doesn't have anything to do with Smash Pass but I keep seeing it.
  18. Taylor

    Taylor i am alien
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Dec 11, 2006
    Choice Scarf, Outrage and abusing the hell out of Moxie with its already insane Atk and BP/coverage means that this will be the Dragon that gives us all a good reason to go with six in a team and spam Outrage/DClaws until you see an opening.

    No longer should we be seeing Magnezone unless BW OU gets ridiculously Dragon-based considering the team building options, but I doubt there is any reason to run either Zone/Ton given Latios' Specs Meteor, CBOutrage from Haxorus and MoxieMence; and lastly but perhaps most importantly, not forgetting our oldest Dragon to date, Dragonite.
  19. NoUserName


    Jan 31, 2010
    I thought the same, but I forgot to say, the main trouble I found is Outrage lasts for me only 2 turns and the third confused and hit.
    Or another variation, all the hazards onto the opponents' field.

    I am thinking Tailwind support instead of Scarf since Salamence is outspeed by many common scarfers, Landorus and Terrakion, and also it will allow to go with Adamant and also remaining Ev's could be in Sp. Att for providing Moxie support, but Tailwind only lasts 4 turns, counting the turn it's used and I can't remember if someone has a Suicide move.
  20. TM13IceBeam


    Oct 22, 2010
    Tailwind means that only mence has 2 turns to attack, unless you want your Tailwind user to die immediately after using Tailwind...
  21. min min

    min min

    Jun 26, 2010
    Well, Whimsicott has Tailwind and Memento, guess that would be a cute teammate to have.
  22. muramusaw8


    Mar 2, 2008
    I've tried a tailwind team before; Whimsicott running Tailwind, Memento, Taunt, and U-Turn @ Eject Button with offensively inclined 'mons, and maybe one more Tailwind user, can wreck havoc.
  23. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed Please leave.
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Jun 12, 2009
    Interesting. A Salamence named after my suffix.

    A compilation of possible GreedMence sets:

    Possible GreedMence sets (open)

    name: Mixed (Moxie)
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Fire Blast
    move 3: Outrage / Dragon Claw
    move 4: Earthquake / Dragon Claw
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Moxie
    nature: Naïve / Rash
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    name: Substitute + Dragon Gem (Moxie)
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Draco Meteor
    move 3: Outrage
    move 4: Earthquake / Fire Blast
    item: Dragon Gem
    ability: Moxie
    nature: Naïve / Rash
    evs: 76 Atk / 182 SpA / 252 Spe

    name: Dragon Dance (Moxie)
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Dragon Claw
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Fire Blast / Substitute
    item: Life Orb / Lum Berry / Leftovers
    ability: Moxie
    nature: Naïve / Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    name: Choice
    move 1: Outrage
    move 2: Dragon Claw
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Stone Edge / Fire Fang
    item: Choice Band / Choice Scarf
    ability: Moxie
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    Please note that Dragon Claw + Outrage is a legal combination on all sets but those using Dragon Dance. By using them on the same set, you gain a pseudo-Latios strategy: Draco Meteor vs Dragon Pulse in certain situations.
  24. Aerodactyl Legend

    Aerodactyl Legend

    Apr 18, 2008
    Man, Moxie is underrated. Intimidate is good, but I think people are just riding on it too much. And Dragon Claw is strong enough. One kill after a Dragon Dance, and it'll sweep just as clean as Outrage.

    Can wait for the Outrage tutor to come back, this'll be strong as hell.
  25. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Dec 22, 2004
    Haha, nice compilation, AccidentalGreed! Moxie Salamence should be your signature mon :p

    Btw, the Sub set that shrang suggested was not Sub + 3 Atks (although I could see that working, too), but Sub + DD + DClaw + EQ with Magnezone support :d.

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