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Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Aerrow, Sep 19, 2010.

  1. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Doubles Co-Lead

    Dec 22, 2004
    Haha, nice compilation, AccidentalGreed! Moxie Salamence should be your signature mon :p

    Btw, the Sub set that shrang suggested was not Sub + 3 Atks (although I could see that working, too), but Sub + DD + DClaw + EQ with Magnezone support :d.
  2. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus

    Sep 4, 2011
    I think that Dragon Dance will be the most viable set for MoxieMence. While Outrage does have a huge amount of power,the ability to switch up moves to nail specific KO's is critical for Moxie. The boost in Speed is critical for Salamence as well, since you never achieve the same amount of Moxie boosts if you switch out as opposed to if you didn't.
  3. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Jun 12, 2009
    For those of you considering Moxie Dragon Dance Salamence:

    Keep in mind that a +1 Life Orb Outrage will do approximately more than +2 Life Orb Dragon Claw (which you have to achieve with DD + Moxie).

    +1 Life Orb Outrage vs. 252 HP /252 Def+ Swampert: 75.4% - 88.8%
    +2 Life Orb Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252 Def+ Swampert: 67.2% - 79.2%

    So if you're looking for a Salamence that's more immediately powerful, go with Intimidate Salamence.

    I think the only reason why Gyarados uses Moxie is because it doesn't have anything better to run with Intimidate except for bulky DD. It's only other most usable Water-type STAB is....Aqua Tail.
  4. Aerodactyl Legend

    Aerodactyl Legend

    Apr 18, 2008
    The only immediately powerful part about it though is just the Attack drop. But what if you switch in on someone who doesn't use their Attack stat? Same results.

    The 1+ LO Outrage vs 2+ LO Dragon Claw is an argument originally for the matter of trying to acquire two or more Dragon Dance Boosts and whether you are using DC/O, holding LO or not, etc.

    Moxie gives you the chance to make the most out of just one boost (an important topic regarding Speed especially).

    Moxie is almost strictly late game, but Salamence is used best at that point in most cases anyways.


    Haha, wow. Forgot about Outrage being the immediate power too.

    There's of course the freedom to switch moves, which no matter what, is a considerable bonus.
  5. Cipher Admin Lovrina

    Cipher Admin Lovrina

    Jun 10, 2008
    So should I use Dragon Dance or Outrage--which Moxiemence should I focus on getting first?
  6. Aeromence


    Jun 3, 2011
    I'd say outrage, because he can use mixed sets and choice sets too, while dd only has dd sets.

    I'm really liking a SubDD + Dragon Gem set. I've been testing for a bit, and I love it. At +2, Gliscor falls to a dragon gem DClaw after SR
  7. November Blue

    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Oct 31, 2010
    I had worked out a pretty effective Moxie build a while ago, it worked pretty well in DW:

    name: MixedMoxieMence
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Draco Meteor
    move 3: Dragon Claw
    move 4: Earthquake / Fire Fang
    item: Draco Plate
    ability: Moxie
    nature: Naive
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    Might need some tweaking.


    Apr 6, 2010
    It depends on what you want Salamence doing. Late game, go with the a dd because after the speed boost and +2 attack following your first ko you will clean up nicely.

    If you want something powerful that can take a chunk out of any mon go with outrage. In fact, why not try a lum berry set to get rid of the confusion like is used on so many dnites. Mence is able to 2hko a vast majority of ou with outrage. That means bring him in, Outrage on the switch, outrage again for the ko. Now youre at +1 attack, and hopefully have been confused and cured, ready to go again.
  9. Xephyr


    Mar 7, 2009
    Honestly I think Salamence's standard should be scarf now. Better speed than Dragonite, better bulk and typing (arguably) than Haxorus, and a great ability can make it more than just a revenge killer. It can OHKO Dragonite even with Multiscale iirc, and once you get a kill SOMETHING will take a dent from the extra Outrage hits. It's just really good.
  10. Aerodactyl Legend

    Aerodactyl Legend

    Apr 18, 2008
    I must be missing something. Is Moxie and Outrage already compatible together (100% confirmation?) ? I'm seeing a Scarf Set post in C&C now.
  11. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers Self-proclaimed DEAD king
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Nov 15, 2006
    Moxie + Dragon Dance, Moxie + Outrage and Dragon Dance + Outrage are possible, but not Moxie + Dragon Dance + Outrage.
  12. The Dark Hero

    The Dark Hero

    Oct 15, 2011
    Actually, it gets both Outrage and Dragon Dance from the Dream World.
  13. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Jun 12, 2009
    That's exactly what he means, except they can't be both on the same set.
  14. deluge


    Sep 19, 2009
    How about a Sub + DD MoxieMence similar to the Sub + DD Dragonite?
    Well Roost is illegal with Moxie so let's say Sub + DD Gyarados instead.

    I was thinking:
    -less bulky, more chaotic version of the Nite set.
    -better Dragon + Fire coverage than Gyarados' Waterfall + Bounce.
    -anything Salamence KOs will give it an attack boost so it could start a snowball sweep with fewer DDs.
    -Sub allows it to setup on Pokemon such as Ferro without Gyro Ball avoiding TWave and Leech Seed.
    -Sub may draw in offensive Pokemon that are more vulnerable to a fatal blow from Salamence resulting in an Atk boost.

    I guess the movest would look like:
    Moxie Salamence@Leftovers
    ~Dragon Dance
    ~Dragon Claw
    ~Fire Blast

    It'd be nice to be able to roast Skarm (with SR) and get an attack boost while keeping your sub but I didn't calc EVs.
  15. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

    Mar 2, 2011
    Go ahead and use only fire blast and outrage, its fun being walled by the 4th most common pokemon in the metagame, Heatran.
  16. DDRMaster


    Jun 26, 2008
    Yeah you'd probably be better off with Dragon Claw and Earthquake and then running Magnezone to take out Skarmory and Bronzong. Earthquake also benefits from the Atk boost from Moxie.

    Although, I'm still not really sure what Substitute helps you do, especially considering the fact that you can't use Intimidate to make it so weaker physical attackers can't break your Sub. Ferrothorn will get OHKO'd by LO Fire Blast and you can always start off by using Dragon Claw mid-game to hit whatever comes in as there aren't many Pokemon that can both outspeed Salamence and resist Dragon Claw.
  17. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Jun 22, 2008
    Heatran is easier to muscle past than Skarmory due to its lack of recovery, so I prefer Dragon+Fire move for coverage. Ferrothorn becomes a problem too when you go Dragon/Ground, since it can ruin your day with Leech Seed or Thunder Wave. You really want that thing dead at all costs.
  18. Thundur


    Aug 5, 2011
    Since this has already been bumped, I just want to say MixMence is strong.
  19. deluge


    Sep 19, 2009
    The idea of sub would be to make setup bait out of Pokemon that rely on status to cripple Mence. Ferrothorn that forgo Gyroball for Thunder Wave or Protect were the main thing I had in mind. You could easily get two DDs if you subbed on such a Ferrothorn's Thunder Wave or Leech Seed and it switched out while you retained your substitute. Ordinarily you'd have to KO Ferrothorn right away for fear of status.

    Certain forms of Tentacruel would be vulnerable as well and, with significant defensive investment, specially defensive Jirachi. You'd set up on Bulk Up Breloom too since the sub blocks Spore and his unboosted resisted STABS can't break it. Nonetheless, unless Sub could consistently pay off I'd agree that it's less useful than just going all out with LO and Earthquake. I was just thinking outside the box for ways to get enough speed and power to run away with Moxie.
  20. Zoul


    Jul 7, 2011
    something i have enjoyed using is:

    MixedMoxieMence; (Life Orb) +76 atk, +182 Sp.atk, +252 Speed, Rash nature.
    Outrage / Earthquake / Fire Blast / Draco Meteor

    basically get it switched in safely, and use fireblast or draco meteor if they carry something like hippowdon, scizor, gliscor, landorus or terrakion or anything like that and kill or cripple the usual counter. At +1 with lifeorb, and a bit of atk ev's wont be anything crazy, but has decent sweeping potential with outrage vs anything that isnt a physical wall / steel type. Although life orb wears you down pretty fast and i dunno how efficient this might be at higher levels of play lol.

    to give an idea; +1 outrage with 76 atk ev's and life orb will do 52-62% to max hp max physical defense hippowdon.

    (EDIT): a Draco plate is a good alternative if the life orb damage is annoying. It boosts the outrage/draco meteor almost as the life orb would, but without recoil.
  21. Premier8


    Mar 7, 2012
    How effective have you guys found DD Outrage MoxieMence to be? Personally I've found it a bit underwhelming with the multitude of Ditto running around at the moment, but I feel that once every has gotten over trying out Ditto, Mence will be a force to be reckoned with. What do you guys think? Will we see Mence overtake Dragonite as the most used Dragon in OU?
  22. Dragon Rider

    Dragon Rider

    Sep 27, 2010
    I've encountered the same problem you have.Ditto makes DDMoxieMence sets really hard to use.Right now any Moxie set that can stand up to its own moves has been doing better for me.

    MixedMoxieMence with Draco Meteor/Fire Blast/Earthquake/Outrage is doing OK since if I used Meteor they inheret the -2 and pretty much have to lock into Outrage to damage me.I can then easily revenge it while locked.

    If you want to use a DDMoxieMence,I suggest Outrage/Earthquake/Dragon Dance/Substitute. Substitute can let you set up on status inflicters (Am I the only one seeing a lot of TWave/Spikes/Rock/Seed Ferrothorn?) and stops Ditto in its tracks.

    Just my 2 cents.
  23. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

    Oct 3, 2010
    Haven't seen any Dittos yet (been playing on PO; is Smogon updated yet? It still says it's version 1.0.53), but there have been a lot of teams with Steels/Mamoswine that fodder something off and bring it in on the revenge during Outrage. Barring those, or if I work around them before I bring in 'Mence, horrible things happen to my opponents' teams. And I love it.

    SubDD sounds like a good idea if you can get rid of Ferrothorn and Skarmory before you sweep. Hellooo Magnezone.
  24. Taylor

    Taylor stardust infinite
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Dec 11, 2006
    I think it is safe to say people will be more than prepared for Salamence now Outrage + Dragon Dance is legal on the same set. This means that it may be worth considering a Jolly Choice Band Salamence to immediately start off with Outrage, much like how Dragonite's Lum Berry set was at the peak of its career, switching items to instantly increase your Attack from the get-go can have the opponent's team crippled before they even see it coming.

    I'm thinking of running Wobbuffet along side Salamence. Encore gives Salamence a turn to get Substitute/Dragon Dance set up, but you will need Magnezone should you choose to run the classic DP Sub + Roost set with DD.

    If you are running stall and you encounter Salamence, it's going to be as tedious to deal with as weather wars were to be apart of during the first half of BW.
  25. Bryce

    Bryce Lun

    Mar 21, 2012
    I think I'll try DDMoxieMence with outrage+dragon gem.Only steels and a few walls can stand up to that.It'll also let me abuse moxie quite a bit.What do you people think of it?

    Another thing is that people generally look to revenge it,so set up sweepers who can set up on mence's common revengers should form an excellent offensive core.

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