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Salamence

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Aerrow, Sep 19, 2010.

  1. Miku

    Miku

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    So OC Salamence can have Dragon Dance but no Outrage? IMO Intimidate Mence seems slightly better since OC Mence lacks Outrage and Intimidate makes a lot of Salamence's switchins so much easier. (Think about switching in against Lucario or Scizor)
  2. Granstafer

    Granstafer

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    but remember that if mence kills enough poke's, dragon claw will eventually be better than outrage...
  3. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    But Salamence has to get those kills without Outrage. If he gets multiple kills in one switch-in, it probably means that there isn't much your opponent could do to stop him with or without the Attack boosts.
  4. Miku

    Miku

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    Yeah killing with Dragon Claw is much more difficult than killing with Outrage due to the big power difference so getting those boosts might not be as easy. Of course there's Draco Meteor but then Salamence would have to drop out either Fire Blast or Earthquake (assuming you're using a DDMence) and both are somewhat necessary for those Steels. Overconfidence does seem to be the superior ability for a Choice'd Mence though.
  5. Granstafer

    Granstafer

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    Draco meteor on a dd set? I don't find that at all effecient.
  6. HavocInfinity

    HavocInfinity

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    Intimidate is a pretty obvious skill. If Salamence switches in and doesn't intimidate me, I'll know he has this Overconfidence skill, and from there I could easily choose to switch out my Pokemon into one that doesn't get ohkod... if I'm even worried about his attack boost. Without Intimidate, the Pokemon Salamence is up against may attack or switch out: same with Intimidate but on Physically-oriented opponents, we'll know for sure they'll do less damage to Salamence in the case they attack.
  7. red12345

    red12345

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    After 1 kill, he gets a 1.5x boost. 80 x 1.5 = 120...
  8. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    That bit about "after one kill" should not be taken lightly. Especially not without the option of using Outrage.

    And as I explained, it's not that simple. Chances are, Salamence already has +1 Attack from Dragon Dance, so it's +2 Dragon Claw vs. +1 Outrage. +2 Dragon Claw has 160 BP while +1 Outrage has 180 BP, so Outrage is still stronger.
  9. red12345

    red12345

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    True true. My bad. I guess the new Mence is just a different style of Pokemon. I now think Overconfidence/EarthquakeSpiral Mence is more like one of those Charge Beam users packing a whole lot more punch (since every move he gets essentially has a physical charge beam attached).
  10. Shimrit As

    Shimrit As

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    Okay with every DD the difference between Outrage and Dragon Claw grows. But considering that Outrage will cause Confusion (even more deadly with Atk boosts), locks you in and leaves you vulnerable to Steel-types, Dragon Claw is still a good option. A loss of 20 BP after one DD isn't that great to be honest. Yeah this is going back to the Outrage vs. Dragon Claw debate which has existed for years but in this case where it's one or the other I think DD + Overconfidence + Dragon Claw would still work well.
  11. UltraStorm

    UltraStorm

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    If you kill something with Salamence, chances are that they will send out something that can revenge kill it or at least force it out, which usually means being faster or having strong enough priority. This will stop the Overconfidence sweep cold. If they don't send out something like that, it's likely they have nothing left that can stop Salamence regardless of the boost of Overconfidence.

    The fact that you can't get Outrage with Overconfidence seals its fate because Outrage is one of Salamence's main tools for scoring kills. That being said, Outrage would still be problematic with Overconfidence because of the confusion.

    In general, it would be a different matter if Overconfidence boosted speed since scoring kills usually means having enough raw attacking power already. The ideal situation for Overconfidence would probably be catching something on a mispredicted switch for a free KO.
  12. red12345

    red12345

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    I can see perhaps a Bulky Substitute set. While it does not get the intimidate attack drop, it does still have some form of natural bulk and decent defensive typing. The Overconfidence Mence may be a late game sweeper rather than an early/mid game Poke-plow.
  13. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    Much of the bulk comes from having Indimidate to weaken physically attacking Pokemon it switches into.
  14. Shimrit As

    Shimrit As

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    ^huh Intimidate does not weaken switch-ins. Guessing it's a typo.

    But if you're going bulky then Intimidate is clearly a better option. The DD + Roost set that has existed for years worked because Salamence could set-up on stuff like Gyarados and Lucario.
  15. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    Yeah, that's what I meant. It gives Salamence a much easier switch-in by weakening the physical power of the Pokemon it switches into.
  16. red12345

    red12345

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    I don't think it is as bad as people say it is. Overconfidence Mence pales in comparison but is still very viable in the OU. It is slightly situational but still a legitimate threat.
  17. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    It's not so much bad as just... not really ever worth using.
  18. Bombkirby

    Bombkirby

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    I'm starting to think breeding dream world pokemon can provide you with a CHANCE of being born with the DW ability. That would explain all the conflicting reports.
  19. Manaphy

    Manaphy

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    So, Intimidate Mence with Outrage is stonger than Overconfidence mence with DClaw?
  20. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    This has already been confirmed.
  21. Aqueos

    Aqueos

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    Its useful, but salamence won't be enjoying the loss of outrage or intimidate. It'll smash things that you don't attack with d-claw, but getting the ko off on something bulky like a swampert won't be easy with d-claw.
  22. Manaphy

    Manaphy

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    Overconfidence could be useful on MixMence, since the attack boost is really nice.
  23. Aerrow

    Aerrow hunter
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    Agreeing with this.
  24. Ginku

    Ginku Farbenprächtig
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    But mixmence is about punching holes in the opponents team; you kill something and get forced out. attack boost wont help you vs an opposing chomp or w/e.
  25. Shimrit As

    Shimrit As

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    New MixMence can attempt to sweep late-game with Outrage - a situation in which Overconfidence can prove extremely useful? Intimidate is definitely a useful ability but Overconfidence works on pretty much every offensive set I feel.

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