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Sanctuary! - An OU Stall team (Peaked #1 on the Smogon Wifi Server!)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by kalamadude, Mar 25, 2011.

  1. kalamadude

    kalamadude

    Joined:
    May 19, 2010
    Messages:
    215
    Thanks to your help, the team has peaked at #1 on the Smogon Pokémon Online Wifi Server. WOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Not only did a stall team top the leaderboard, but it did so without a single one of the suspects, something I'm quite proud of.




    Changes will be edited in in bold.





    Hello folks! Let me start by first thanking everyone who took it upon themselves to even click into this thread. I know I'm kind of a no-name around these parts. In fact, I've only really started playing OU Pokémon in the past month or so. In Gen IV, I was an avid UU player since many of my favorite Pokémon were found in that tier and I never had a knack for OU. With Gen V, I decided to give OU a try, but as I run Mac OS, I had to wait for Pokémon Online to release a Mac-compatible update. Thus, I've really only played OU during this third round of suspect testing.

    So while I'm a bit new to this scene, I have, however, lurked a lot so I know a bit about the community. For example, I know that roughly half of you would like me to overload you with as much information as possible, giving you even my most intricate and delicate thought processes. The other half of you would be content with a bare bones list of EVs and moves. I'll try to appeal to both parties with copious spoiler tabs so people who are interested can read more, and people who aren't can get on with their rate.

    Without further ado, let's get on to...



    [​IMG]

    Asile! Et la foule applaudissait. Enfin, il fit une troisième apparition sur le sommet de la tour du bourdon ; de là il sembla montrer avec orgueil à toute la ville celle qu'il avait sauvée, et sa voix tonnante, cette voix qu'on entendait si rarement et qu'il n'entendait jamais, répéta trois fois avec frénésie jusque dans les nuages : Asile! Asile! Asile!

    Sanctuary!

    An OU sand stall team


    Since I've only been playing OU Pokémon for about a month now, I've been using more or less the same team the entire time. In order to test myself and make sure I could get accustomed to a new metagame, I refused to scrap even the most useless of teams. I opted instead to make frequent and countless adjustments to my current team. Needless to say, the team has gone through an absurd number of versions with nearly every team member changing multiple times. Just around the time when the suspect period ended, I made one change and the team just started winning and winning. Since making my final change a few days ago, it has not lost and I have shot up the ladder. I'm not exactly sure whether I've hit gold or if it's just because the ladder is no longer the fighting ground for voting rights, but the numbers don't lie. It has peaked at 1431 (and still rising) putting me (at the time of this post) at #12 on the leaderboard, which is the highest I have EVER been, even in UU last gen.


    At a glance...
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]



    Teambuilding Process

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    As mentioned above, this was not only my first Gen V team, but my first OU team in general. All the old favorites that you folks knew by heart were completely new to me. I've adjusted as we went along, learning the relative bulk of walls like Gliscor and Skarmory, learning what outspeeds what, learning what should make me shit my pants.

    In this crazy offensive metagame, you may be wondering what on earth would drive me to make my first ever OU team be stall. Well, I fiddled around with some more offensive versions of this team and I simply came to the conclusion that stall is just plain more reliable. An offensive team can only run so many sweepers and each sweeper has his checklist of counters and checks. If your opponent happens to have the right answers to your team, you've already lost. With stall, however, there is no reliance on any one member of the team. Each member works together to slowly wear down any opposing forces and victory is more like a long, sure march than a wild shot in the dark.

    So stall was my decision. Since I've been changing this team so much before it settled as it is, instead of trying to remember and trace that whole history, I'll just present the final members of the team and how they came to be chosen.

    [​IMG]
    Slowbro was the only guy who was ALWAYS on the team. Back in UU last gen, I had an unhealthy reliance on the only good bulky water in the tier - Milotic. Simply put, Milotic defensively COMMANDED that tier and was invaluable on pretty much every team. So, even though Bulky Waters have started to fall out of favor, I had to have one on my team. Add on his ridiculous new ability and you have the only guy who has survived every team change so far. This guy is ridiculous.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Blissey has been changed only once really, but otherwise has also stuck with the team since day one. I really have seen very little of this pink blob on enemy teams, but I had heard legends of her days of ruling OU last gen. She originally passed Wishes to the rest of the team, but I came to learn that she could be relied on for much more and is my only line of defense against many dangerous forces. I know Chansey is supposed to be bulkier, but the loss of Leftovers is just killer on a sandstorm based team.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    For a long time, Hippowdon provided my main source of sandstorm on the team. I honestly haven't seen too many of these dudes around lately either, with his offensive doppelganger, Tyranitar overshadowing him as a sandstreamer. Originally, Hippowdon provided the sand for an Excadrill sweeper but has since fell into more of a phazing role, roaring away scary sweepers and building up entry hazard damage.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Speaking of hazards, ladies and gentlemen, the hazards machine! This was originally Ferrothorn, but Skarmory's key resistances, Whirlwind, and Sturdy has made him completely irreplaceable. This bastard can wall entire teams on its own and was a fantastic switch from Ferrothorn.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Tyranitar's addition to the team was really a turning point. In the past, I'd juggled around with replacing Hippowdon with him, but Hippowdon's bulk was always missed. Then, I noted a serious Reuniclus and Latios weakness (not good weaknesses to have). I realized it would make sense to have them both on my team. With Tyranitar being specially defensive and Hippowdon being defensive, the two had no trouble messing with opposing weathers. Finally, I got rocked by a surprise Choice Band T-tar and immediately switched mine to the same. That was the thing that clicked and made the team really blast off.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    This final spot has shuffled around a lot. It's always been a rapid spinner because my many grounded and defensive Pokémon really hated switching in a lot with hazards down. For a while it was Excadrill as a clean up sweeper and spinner, but I found that he never got the chance to come in until the very end game when he made a last bid effort for victory. I needed something that could come in on a common threat and proceed to spin multiple times. In the end, Hitmontop fit the bill, walking all over most T-tar and ALL Ferrothorn.



    Nickname Theme

    Show Hide
    I always enjoy to have a team with themed nicknames. I feel like it makes me have more fun with the team and, additionally, helps me see if I have anything in common with my opponents as they will sometimes comment on the themed names. The theme for this team is based on a book that I just finished reading. I actually just finished a six month study abroad trip in France and was really missing it. To remind me of my time there, and to test and maintain my language level, I embarked upon a quest to read a classic of French literature - Notre Dame de Paris (better known by its English translation name, The Hunchback of Notre Dame).

    As I finished the book and saw that many of the names fit some of my team, I decided to make that my theme. Add to this that my favorite place in Paris is the square in front of Notre Dame Cathedral and that one of my favorite movies is the Disney adaptation, and it was a no-brainer. The title comes from one of the most memorable scenes from the book, when Quasimodo swings from the top of the tower on a rope, scoops up Esmeralda (who is on her way to be hung), and runs throughout the cathedral, crying out "Sanctuary! Sanctuary!" The associated quote is found below the photo of Notre Dame above. In the end, I've really grown attached to my little Quasimodo and friends.

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    The Team

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    Hippowdon "Phoebus" @ [​IMG]
    Ability: Sandstream
    EVs: 240 HP, 252 Defense, 18 Special Defense
    Impish (+Defense, -Special Attack)
    -Earthquake
    -Stealth Rock
    -Roar
    -Slack Off

    One of two potential leads. If the opposing team has a Politoed or Ninetales, I'll send in Tyranitar (as I'll explain further down). If there's no weather on the other team, I'll send in Hippowdon. If the other team is sand as well, I'll take a closer look at the team to decide a lead. This poor guy has been with the team for a long time and having two weather starters is invaluable against other weather teams. Aside from that, he is kind of the most replaceable member of the team. If their Balloon is broken, he provides a great counter to Excadrill and Blaziken. He can come in pretty easily against Jirachi (a frequent sight on rain teams), switching the weather back.

    Aside from weather he was the only one with a free moveslot for Stealth Rock which is extremely important as otherwise, I'd be very weak to Volcorona, and it helps wear down Latios as well. Leading with him lets me get them down as fast as possible. His Roar helps him phaze any Pokes who aren't threats to him (Gliscor, etc.) to build up entry hazard damage or to get rid of a scary sweeper. The EVs are pretty basic. The weird HP EVs come from my crusade to give all of my guys magic lefties numbers, although I'm not sure how much good it's doing. The leftover EVs were originally in attack, but Hippowdon is not going to be doing much damage to anything with Earthquake, almost always preferring Roar. I put them into Special Defense to give a tiny bit more survivability.

    Show Hide
    Phoebus is the dashing captain of the king's division of Parisian archers. In the Disney movie, he's a swashbuckling, but honorable knight who wins Esmeralda's heart and saves Quasimodo by leading the battle against Frollo's goons. In the book, he's engaged to someone else and only feigns interest in Esmeralda so he can get in her pants. When she is framed for his "murder" he does nothing to help her. She is loyal to him always and he leaves her to die.

    Hippowdon fits the book version because he summons the sandstorm that, on one hand, wears down the opponents, but, on the other hand, keeps Blissey's Leftovers from restoring her health. Thus, Blissey loves him, but is constantly hurt by him as well.

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    [​IMG]

    Skarmory "Jehan" @ [​IMG]
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 200 HP, 252 Defense, 50 Special Defense, 8 Speed
    Impish (+Defense, -Special Attack)
    -Brave Bird
    -Spikes
    -Whirlwind
    -Roost

    Skarmory replaced Ferrothorn as my spiker early on in the run of this team and I haven't looked back. Skarm is an absolute beast in this metagame. He gets so many chances to set up Spikes it's just insane. He can come in on many of the top threats of the metagame and just set up in their faces - Excadrill, Scizor, Gliscor, Ferrothorn (sort of, if you want him to set up too). He also provides a dynamite response to huge parts of the metagame with Whirlwind phazing away any scary set-uppers. Roost gives him monstrous longevity since he can restore health against countless threats and he tends to last the entire game.

    Sturdy is always incredibly useful here as well. With a stall team like this, you should never let the game get away from you. An opponent who gets one too many stat boosts could mean the end of you. With Sturdy, you get a "Get Out of Jail Free Card" - Skarmory hangs on with its Sturdy and then Whirlwinds them away.

    It occurred to me that the speed EVs were only there to outspeed other Skarmory to the Whirlwind, but with most running either zero or one extra speed point, I figured the EVs could be better served adding a bit more special bulk to him, if only a bit.

    Show Hide
    Jehan is one of the characters who didn't make it into the Disney movie. Jehan is Frollo's brother and Quasimodo's half brother. In the book, he is entirely dependent on Frollo to provide the money that he drinks away. Towards the end of the book, as Frollo loses his mind, Jehan asks for more money but is told to become a beggar instead. He joins the beggar troupe in the Court of Miracles and follows them in their assault on the cathedral. He gets totally drunk and dresses up in a comically overprotective suit of armor and leads the charge into the cathedral. Quasimodo, not knowing it is him, picks him up and smashes him against the wall until his body is completely broken and he dies.

    This fits Skarmory because he is the closest thing I have to a walking suit of armor. Unfortunately, he's not really dependent on my Frollo (Hitmontop), but he is crushed by Quasimodo's (Slowbro) Flamethrower.

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    Slowbro "Quasimodo" @ [​IMG]
    Ability: Regenerator
    EVs: 216 HP, 252 Defense, 42 Special Attack
    Bold (+Defense, -Attack)
    -Scald
    -Ice Beam
    -Slack Off
    -Flamethrower

    Slowbro is currently my favorite Pokémon in this meta. His defenses are just obnoxiously good and Regeneration on a defensive mon like this is unheard of. He can come in over and over throughout the entire match, soaking up hits and coming out with a net gain in health. His move set is my pride and joy. Slack Off is necessary to help him stay in tip top shape if he doesn't want to switch out. Scizor's U-Turn does just around half of his life, so Slowbro can just take the switch, Slack Off his health back, and check out who comes in. He can do the same with Tyranitar as well to scout for Pursuit vs. Crunch.

    His offensive options deal some serious damage as well. Surf is there to provide a guaranteed OHKO on Blaziken (since Slowbro is totally the only guaranteed Blaziken counter). Ice Beam lets him net surprise KOs on Gliscor, Garchomp, Landorus, etc. For some reason, people don't expect him to carry it. This makes him my only real response to a Taunt Gliscor (Skarmory can set up on him otherwise). Finally, Flamethrower gives him even more surprise kills - wrecking Scizor on the switch-in and Ferrothorn always. Ferrothorn loves switching in so massive damage on him is a godsend. Finally, he is the only one who can really dent opposing Skarmory.

    I've played around with Yawn as well to help build up hazards damage or to stop a rampaging opponent. I found that it started getting less use once I had Tyranitar to take care of Reuniclus instead so Flamethrower is spectacular. I've decided to use Flamethrower for good now. It's awesome.

    At the advice of franky, I switched Surf to Scald and am very happy with the results. The damage difference is minimal, and the burn really helps against Gyarados and switch-ins. It makes my team a bit more Conkeldurr weak, though since Slowbro can't take him on on his own any more. Hippowdon and Hitmontop have been picking up some slack there, though.


    Slowbro is the glue for this team. He counters tons of top threats and Regenerator lets him come in and do it over and over. Some stuff he can counter - Blaziken, Arcanine, Darmanitan, Garchomp, Landorus, Skarmory, Gliscor, Heatran, non-Seed Bomb Breloom, Conkeldurr, and so on.

    A few calcs to prove my point:
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    Blaziken
    Max attack +2 Flare Blitz - 38-45% (3HKO)
    Max attack +2 Flare Blitz in the sun - 76-90% (2HKO)
    Max attack +2 Shadow Claw - 60-70% (2HKO)
    Max attack +2 Stone Edge - 42-50% (3HKO)
    Slowbro's Surf is a guaranteed KO outside the sun, it does 50-59% in the sun (enough for Hitmontop to finish him plus the recoil from Flare Blitz and Life Orb)

    Conkeldurr
    Max attack +2 Payback - 49-58% (2HKO)
    Slowness benefits us! Slowbro's Surf does enough for him to not want to sit there Bulking Up while I heal with Leftovers.

    Landorus
    Max attack +2 Earthquake in sandstorm - 79-94% (2HKO)
    While Ice Beam does 90-100%


    Show Hide
    Quasimodo is the titular hunchback. He's the main character of the book and the movie. He is fiercely loyal, especially to his master Frollo. When Esmeralda shows the slightest ounce of compassion towards him, he becomes absurdly loyal to her as well and falls in love with her. He saves her life and cares for her himself in the cathedral. However, when Frollo goes behind his back to kill Esmeralda, Quasimodo becomes enraged, throwing his master from the belltower. He then goes to Esmeralda's mass grave and hugs her corpse until he dies of starvation. Years later, when excavators try to remove his skeleton, it collapses to dust. In the film, he is a caring creature who only wants to be free from his cathedral and be accepted in the real world.

    Slowbro is the star of my team in the same way that Quasimodo is the star of the novel. He's kind of ugly and doesn't get the respect he deserves in this metagame. Additionally, he's kind of got a hunchback with that shell stuck to his tail!

    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]

    Blissey "Esmeralda" @ [​IMG]
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 216 HP, 252 Defense, 42 Special Attack
    Bold (+Defense, -Attack)
    -Softboiled
    -Heal Bell
    -Toxic
    -Flamethrower

    I swear I'm not a SkarmBliss whore! Blissey is completely necessary for this team. Without her, I'd have no responses to Rotom-W, any ghosts, and some special attacking behemoths (like Latios if Tyranitar is down). I think it's a testament to the state of the metagame that a defensive team like mine can run four dedicated physical walls and one Blissey and can cover the whole metagame well. This metagame is so physical, it's no surprise Blissey has fallen out of usage. But there is still a small collection of special attackers that she can help me deal with.

    The moveset helps her with this role. Softboiled keeps her healthy, while Heal Bell keeps the team healthy. This is invaluable for many reasons. First, it allows me some flexibility if I make a misprediction and someone gets crippled (Tyranitar gets burned, Slowbro gets Toxic'd). It lets me wake my team up once Breloom goes down. And, since Rest is Hitmontop's only health restoration option, it lets her keep Hitmontop healthy as well.

    Toxic lets her pose a threat to many things and is my go-to if I expect a switch. It provides a solid way to bring down bulky waters like opposing Slowbro, Rotom-W, etc. Once I scout their switch-in, Flamethrower becomes a surprise move. It can smash Scizor on the switch and destroy Ferrothorn as well. It provides stellar surprise KOs, which can make a huge difference in a drawn-out battle.

    Show Hide
    Esmeralda is the ideal woman in the novel. However, she's only 16 so don't get too excited, folks. She's impossibly beautiful, an enchanting dancer, and a beautiful singer. All the men who meet her fall for her, but she only has eyes for Phoebus, who doesn't care for her at all. In the end, the archdeacon Frollo falls in love with her but he's horrifyingly creepy so she shuns him. He sees to it that she is hung for a crime he frames her for. In the movie, she's a bit older, but more or less follows the same character arc (although she survives because, hey, it's Disney).

    Blissey had to fill this role by virtue of being required to be female (and Esmeralda's the only female character in the book). Additionally, just as all the men in the world fall for her on sight, Blissey stops all special attackers in their tracks with her beguiling good looks.

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    [​IMG]

    Tyranitar "Frollo" @ [​IMG]
    Ability: Sandstream
    EVs: 6 HP, 252 Attack, 252 Special Defense
    Adamant (+Attack, -Special Attack)
    -Crunch
    -Pursuit
    -Superpower
    -Fire Punch

    Adding Tyranitar was the defining moment of this team. The moment he joined, the whole thing just turned around. He was originally specially defensive, meant to counter Latios and Reuniclus. But then one day an enemy Tyranitar netted a surprise KO on Slowbro since he was Banded. I've never looked back. Choice Band is completely unexpected in this metagame and nets me tons and tons of surprise kills.

    Pursuit allows him to chase down and finish off fleeing opponents like Latios or Xatu. STAB, Banded, max attack Pursuit is much more powerful than it has any business being. Superpower provides an OHKO on opposing Tyranitar and is a good response if you're not sure whether Ferrothorn is going to switch or not. Fire Punch is if you want to smash Ferrothorn or Skarmory. Crunch is his go-to move. My favorite thing is to switch him in as Reuniclus starts Calm Mind-ing. Since no one expects Choice Band, they typically stay in for the kill, while Crunch is an OHKO almost every time (and EVERY time if Reuniclus has suffered any prior damage at all). I've only had a full health Reuniclus survive it once and I must say I was very disappoint :(

    The EVs make him hit the hardest while making him extra bulky specially. I'm not interested in tanking physical hits (I have four other physical walls) and he needs all the help he can to smash Latios.

    If I see a Politoed or Ninetales on the opposing team, he is my go-to lead. Often, Politoed and Ninetales will try to switch out so I hit them with a boosted Pursuit on turn one. If it doesn't OHKO them, it puts them in easy range of entry hazards. The worst that can happen is Ninetales burning me (though then I switch to Blissey and heal it immediately) or Politoed Focus Blasting me (although he's never had the balls to do it - too scared of it missing and losing the weather war). Additionally, having two sandstreamers makes it really easy to win weather wars. Any opposing weathers can get switched in on by one of the two. Hippowdon can come in on a Jirachi in the rain, while Tyranitar can come in on a Thundurus. Hippowdon can come in on an Arcanine in the sun, while Tyranitar can come in on Ninetales.

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    Frollo is one scary bastard. In the movie, he's the egomaniacal judge of Paris on a crusade against gypsies. In the book, he's a super-genius who has cared for his brother his entire life and took the deformed Quasimodo in out of the care of his heart. When he falls in love with the dancer Esmeralda, his love is forbidden. He concludes that she is a witch, tempting him to Satan, but he decides he loves her anyway. When she repeatedly refuses him, he has her hanged, which causes Quasimodo to throw him off the tower, to his death.

    Like Frollo, Tyranitar is one scary looking motherfucker. He ruthlessly smashes unsuspecting foes with his unexpected force.

    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]

    Hitmontop "Clopin" @ [​IMG]
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP, 6 Attack, 252 Defense
    Impish (+Defense, -Special Attack)
    -Rapid Spin
    -Close Combat
    -Mach Punch
    -Toxic

    This slot has shifted around the most of all. I need a Rapid Spinner to help me beat other stall teams. It was Excadrill for a while, but I found the he couldn't really come in until end-game when he would try for a clean-up sweep. Donphan worked out for a bit, but overlapped Hippowdon too much. Hitmontop has been the most useful to the team. He's a great switch-in to Tyranitar, scaring him away with his STAB moves and spinning on the switch. He is also a great switch in to Ferrothorn. His Intimidate makes Power Whip and Gyro Ball bounce off, while we can spin away any Spikes, Stealth Rock, or Leech Seed.

    Mach Punch provides insurance against a weakened sweeper like Blaziken or the like. Honestly, I haven't found much use for it. And finally, Rest gives him potential recovery (with Blissey waking him up).

    I've added Toxic over Rest as the loss of healing is a worthy sacrifice for a way to hurt Jellicent on the switch as well as any Rotom-W who stay in to Will-o-Wisp (since Blissey can switch in afterwards and immediately heal that). The loss of Rest is not too troublesome. Hitmontop's Rapid Spin is very important so I am extremely careful with him. He only comes in when I know he'll be taking minimal damage and rarely stays in for more than one turn. I'm switched to Close Combat over HJK to avoid the risk of misses since the damage difference is minimal and the misses can wreck an entire battle.

    Show Hide
    Clopin is a manic jester in the Disney movie. The leader of the scoundrels of Paris, king of the Court of Miracles. He is a force of chaos, dancing through the dark underside of Paris. In the book, he's a bit more sinister. He hangs people for no good reason and leads the army of scoundrels to pillage the cathedral (and save Esmeralda).

    Hitmontop is my Clopin since he's sort of a dancing jester type already.

    [​IMG]




    Threat List

    Instead of filling out a little list of how I respond to, um, everyone in the metagame, I'm just going to list the Pokes that make me cringe when I see them on the Team Preview. The ones that make me shit myself if they get in for free.

    [​IMG] - This guy's just a bastard to everyone I think. He can come in without fear on Tyranitar and Blissey and he frequently takes advantage of this. I sacrifice Hippowdon to sleep and then send in Skarmory to break the Substitute and threaten an OHKO. From then on out, I can blast him with Flamethrower if he tries to set up on Slowbro. Actually, Slowbro fares pretty well too if something's already asleep.

    [​IMG] - If I don't get Stealth Rocks up, this will go downhill fast. Blissey is the only one who's safe. I cross my fingers that she's healthy and that Toxic hits. If it has Lum Berry, I'm even more screwed. I get it Toxic'd as soon as possible and hope Blissey can hold on because if it breaks through Blissey, it breaks through the whole team.

    [​IMG] - This guy makes me nervous when he comes in. If he doesn't have Taunt then he's totally useless and Blissey can Toxic him away. If he DOES have Taunt though, it'll take some real legwork to take him down. Only Tyranitar can smash him and not if he gets Will-o-wisp'd. The best bet is to switch in Blissey and then double switch to Tyranitar as he Taunts and try to Pursuit or Crunch him, depending on how I feel. Either one will do tons of damage (even if he lands the burn) since it's STAB super effective Choice Banded hitting his weaker defensive stat (overkill?).

    [​IMG] - Again, things that can Taunt me are really obnoxious. I usually go to Skarmory and try to Whirlwind him. If Taunted, I gotta go to Slowbro and start smacking away with Ice Beam and Surf, letting Sandstorm eat away at him (he needs a TON of boosts to dent Slowbro). I can heal by Regenerator by switching to Tyranitar or Skarmory on the Bounce and back to Slowbro on the next Waterfall. Eventually, Life Orb recoil and sandstorm will bring him down. Cured by replacing Surf with Scald on Slowbro!

    [​IMG] - Noticing a theme here? Taunt Mew tears this team to threads. I'm not too sure what exactly I can do to it, though it can't really do much to Slowbro who can pound away with Surf and switch out to heal (bypassing the Taunt). Otherwise I'm at a loss.

    [​IMG] - As mentioned below, Nasty Plot Thundurus is a pretty big threat to this team as well. He can deal huge damage to everyone, even Blissey, after just one NP, which it has no trouble getting against Skarmory, Slowbro, Hippowdon, or Hitmontop (fuck). Luckily, Blissey can survive one Focus Blast and try to get it Toxic'd. Life Orb recoil, sandstorm, and Stealth Rock really help, but he's definitely something to watch out for.

    [​IMG] - Heatran can be a pain mostly because he's a special attacking Fire type. I usually switch in Slowbro to scare him away with Surf, but he does not like taking an Earth Power. Once the Balloon is broken, the entry hazards really eat him alive. Finally, Blissey can wall him, although she can't do anything back.

    [​IMG] - Magnezone is not really a huge threat to many members of the team (yeah, he can scare away Slowbro but that's not the main problem). However if he traps and takes out Skarmory, I'm in pretty big trouble. This being a stall team, any lost team member means a distinct loss of synergy. I will say I win a lot more games with 4 or 5 team members left than with 1 left, that's for sure. If I see Magnezone on Team Preview, I make sure to play my Skarm judiciously. Other than Slowbro, all the other members of the team can take Magnezone with their hands tied behind their back and will scare it away. But it always feels like a matter of time until my Spike bird goes down.

    [​IMG] - Wobbuffet. This asshole is still very, very Uber. As mentioned above, losing an integral member of a stall team can spell doom as everyone plays their own part towards victory. With Wobbuffet, I'm almost guaranteed to lose someone, and probably early on. I just cross my fingers that the opponent misplays and wastes his free kill on someone slightly more expendable like Hippowdon. Either way, I do not like seeing my opponent get a free crack at my team any more than the next guy.

    [​IMG] - This Gorebyss Shell Smash Baton Pass strategy is really tough. I can come out on top sometimes, but I really need to be on the top of my game. It takes some clever switching, some surprise KOs on the Baton Pass, and some careful use of Hitmontop's Intimidate. A lot of times they'll sac at least one to Slowbro by underestimating his bulk or not expecting one of his offensive moves. Blissey can probably Toxic something on the switch and Skarmory can Sturdy-Whirlwind something. But it usually comes to be an exceptionally close match. This strategy is killer.



    Conclusion

    Whew! I have a lot of respect now for the people who put in the effort to make a real nice RMT. I hope I can get some genuine feedback here (at least more than an RMT with only one sentence per Poke). I've had a great time trying out OU for the first time and am thrilled to have met this sort of success. I can vouch that all six of the Pokes are really strong in this metagame (ESPECIALLY SLOWBRO) and deserve lots of usage. I can also attest that stall really can thrive in a metagame this powerful. And not just Toxic Spikes stall. Lay down some Spikes, get a few surprise KOs from unexpected movesets, and then stall away your problems. I'm glad you took the time to read my whole post and I wish you a good day! À la prochaine fois!




    Edit: With your tweaks, the team has climbed up the new leaderboard and is now sitting comfortably at the top, jumping around the #12-#7 mark depending on hax. Hopefully I can move up a bit more as I keep it up.

    Edit 2: Some heavy laddering brought this team to number one on the server for at least a little bit (although that means way less outside of the voting rights period). Thanks for everyone's help!
  2. Heist

    Heist
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winner

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    I think the biggest issue for this team is one Pokemon you have already identified. Taunt Jellicent is a huge issue for your team, and if they are physically-defensive they can potentially shrug off Tyranitar's attacks. You also have to hope Cursed Body does not activate.

    This Pokemon, alongside Taunt + Will-o-wisp Mew potentially sweep your team cold seeing as Tyranitar finds it incredibly hard to deal with them at -2 Atk. If by some chance you have lost Tyranitar, you have absolutely no chance at winning. Most Jellicent hover around 72 Spe EVs [to outrun min Skarmory], so they will most likely outrun your Tyranitar and really hinder it. I know Blissey does have Heal Bell, but its not guaranteed to pull it off and without Tyranitar having any sort of recovery, its going to die fast.

    This may seem like a very odd suggestion, but have you thought about a Spiritomb over Tyranitar? A Spiritomb will allow you to pretty much always beat Calm Mind Reuniclus, something Tyranitar was on your team to do, but Spiritomb does it much more reliably. If you don't get the critical hit to break through the +6 special-defense, you will PP stall it out due to Pressure. On top of this, Spiritomb does well over half HP to 252 HP Mew, meaning you'd beat it pretty much always, or at least force a switch so you can use Rest, and has a fairly good shot at 2HKOing even the most specially-defensive of Jellicent if Stealth Rock or 1 layer of Spikes is up. However, you are going to have to invest significantly into special-attack if you want to see any real results.

    Spiritomb @ Leftovers
    Modest | Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpAtk
    Shadow Ball / Rest / Will-o-wisp / Sleep Talk or Hypnosis

    Shadow Ball is the obvious STAB and is better suited than Dark Pulse for two reasons. Fighting-type Pokemon do not resist it [or at least most of them] and its crucial SpDef drops. With a special-defense drop, you will have no fear at beating even 252/252+ Jellicent. Due to the significant special-attack investment, you have a decent shot at even 2HKOing 252 HP Conkeldurr after Stealth Rock or 1 layer of Spikes. The choice of last moveslot is up in the air - I'd personally go with Hypnosis due to the annoying sleep mechanics this generation although Sleep Talk, Calm Mind, Hidden Power [Fighting], Pursuit and Curse are all viable options. Using Hypnosis would make Slowbro's Yawn obsolete although Flamethrower is the better move in my opinion. Lastly, Spiritomb gives your team a spin-blocker. I wouldn't say spin-blockers are overly crucial this generation as Excadrill breaks through pretty much all of them and Starmie, Tentacruel and Hitmontop are relatively uncommon.

    This is one of the best gen 5 stall teams I've seen posted lately, so good team and good luck!
  3. kalamadude

    kalamadude

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    Woo thanks a lot for the rate. It's funny that you mention Taunt Mew as giving me trouble as I ran into my first one this morning and it systematically picked off all six members of the team. Thank God I haven't seen more but it's definitely something I need to find a better response for.

    I will definitely try out that Spiritomb tonight, but I have my reservations. As I mentioned, I played a lot of UU last generation and so I have a lot of experience with Spiritomb, and I've never been impressed. He was the face of UU stall for a long time. I never had luck fitting him onto my team and was frequently underwhelmed whenever I had to face one. I can only imagine that he hasn't aged well, since he hasn't gained much and now he's trying to fit into the hugely more powerful Gen V OU. I'm very hesitant at having two team members reliant on Rest for recovery. With his relatively low HP, could Pain Split be another option?

    That being said, a spin blocker would be useful, as would a sleep and WoW inducer. Finally, another response to fighters would be nice in this meta. In defense of Tyranitar, though, I find the double sandstream to be integral to the success of the team. I can be a lot more cavalier with my two weather setters when fighting other weather teams and leading with CBTar against a Ninetales or Politoed almost always nets me both a free kill and weather war victory as I Pursuit them on turn one. Additionally, with MixTar being so popular right now, CBTar nets me a lot of key surprise KOs (Reuniclus being the most important).

    Again, thanks for the rate!
  4. franky

    franky
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    hi kamala,

    a solid stall team is very difficult to build in the metagame due to the excessive amount of dangerous threats. i think you're being lucky with thundurus at the moment and it can shred your team quite easily with a single nasty plot. one toxic miss and watch your entire team faint continuously. i'm just going to drop the gun on suggestion a different tyranitar with the evs 252 hp / 188 atk / 68 spd with the nature brave and the movesets crunch / pursuit / stone edge / fire blast with the item chople berry. in my opinion, this is the safest route in dealing with thundurus should toxic miss, you have a back-up check to it. this also provides a pretty safe rankurusu check as well. crunch will fail to ohko, and you can survive the focus blast and use pursuit to pummel its escape since it will assume you're holding a choice band. among other things, crunch and pursuit can deal with jellicent. will-o-wisp is rarely a problem with heal bell present.

    you can also try toxic > roar on hippowdon to surprise those jellicent switch-ins. a poisoned jellicent will no longer have a field day with taunting your entire team. its very difficult to beat it so might as well catch it off guard. additionally, this might get gyarados switch-ins who will attempt to come in on stealth rock most likely and taunt you. on slowbro, boil over > surf is definitely something to consider to at least stand a chance against gyarados. the burn is always a good idea to deal with physical attackers better.

    as for other options, chansey > blissey if you want to since chansey is best served for a cleric over blissey in my opinion. overall gl! it's your choice though. giving this a heart.
  5. kalamadude

    kalamadude

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    Thanks, franky. I'm going to play around a lot with this team in the next few days, although classes start again next Monday so I probably won't be playing nearly as much. That Tyranitar looks interesting. The power of Choice Band will be missed, but the surprise Chople could let him serve as a surprise counter to the genies and Gengar as well. Definitely worth considering.

    It's funny, a lot of the threats people are mentioning are ones that I just ran into as I was testing this morning - Taunt Mew and now Nasty Plot Thundurus. I just got smashed by a Thundurus earlier this morning. I think I beat him by landing the Toxic on Blissey and switching Skarmory and Hippowdon around the Thunderbolts and Grass Knots until he fell. In the past, Blissey had Ice Beam over Flamethrower and was a much better stop to the Genies, but the surprise KOs on Scizor and Ferrothorn switch-ins was too good to drop.

    I'm extremely hesitant to go to Chansey since the loss of leftovers is very obnoxious when I plan on Sandstorm being up for the whole battle. Plus a lot of Blissey's versatility comes from the surprising oomph behind her Flamethrowers. Chansey seems to sacrifice that.

    I've had many people tell me that Boil Over is better than Surf on Slowbro but I just can't see it. It takes away my guaranteed OHKO on Blaziken. In addition, he's my main stop to Conkeldurr and Boil Over would not only do less damage, but run the risk of giving him a boost with Guts.

    Toxic on Hippowdon is a good option but the phazing is very nice. On a related note, there was a period where I ran Toxic on Hitmontop over Rest to catch Jellicent switchins. That was even more useful, actually, since Jellicent walls his whole moveset and is almost guaranteed to come in to spinblock or cause HJK to miss. Come to think of it, I may try that again. I'm considering dropping Mach Punch for a different priority too like Fake Out. The Intimidate-Fake Out combo was very appealing to me in the past (back in UU) and it gives me a much better move against the Genies and Volcarona, who are the ones I want to be hitting with priority anyway.

    I'll update my post after some more testing tonight.
  6. franky

    franky
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    i'd imagine blaziken to come lategame like always by the time it comes, expect sr + spikes + ss to take its toll. so surf ohkoing it seems irrelevant so yeah. boil over has a better positive factor to it as a whole. and yo foresight > mach punch if you find no use in mach punch and it will allow you to hit through jellicent with hjk or rapid spin. both very useful.
  7. Dezza Laa

    Dezza Laa

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    Hi dude,

    Try running a Jellicent over Slowbro. I know he handles Blaziken but Hippo + Jelli + Skarm have PERFECT synergy, resisting every type of move there is. THey also all have reliable recovery and now you have a spin blocker.

    Other than that sweet team! I however think you should try running a Doryuuzu again with Air Balloon as your spinner.

    GL
  8. kalamadude

    kalamadude

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    24 hour bump. I was unable to test the team last night with Smogon's server down so that was a little bit of a let down.

    @Dezza Laa - I've thought a lot about Jellicent, but Slowbro is just all out better in my opinion. He has a workable Special Attack (and lots of options for offensive moves) and a hugely better ability. Sorry but there's no way I'm making that change.

    I used Excadrill with Air Balloon for a while as a spinner but he's honestly a terrible spinner. He relies on the Balloon for switchins and if he tries to spin, he's guaranteed to lose it. I find Exca is not too good on a stall team as he goes down way too easily and lets down the rest of the team by making you play with basically a five man team since you're nervous about losing an integral sweeper/spinner. I've had much more luck with Hitmontop.



    Edit: Changes have been edited in in bold and the team has climbed the new ladder, sitting comfortably around the top ten mark. Thanks so much for the help and more comments would be vastly appreciated.
  9. Temporal

    Temporal

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    Alrightie. I finally made a username for smogon to post on forums. The reason, to comment on this team. I used the same team last gen (disregarding the new moves and replace hippo with metagross for sr/bulky offense lead). I prefer stall play style as well and with the new addition of Jellicent (water/ghost) I really think he can replace slowbro for you or at least test it out. I tested slowbro vs. Jellicent and I prefer Jellicent because of the water absorb which counters some rain teams and great for automatic recovery. Jellicent totally walls Resttalking bulky waters barring milotic with dragon tail to phaze it out but at a 33.3% chance.

    Yes, replace HJK with close combat. Much more reliable and it doesn't stay in long. Also, mind telling me how intimidate is better than technican? I prefered tech for mach punch and rapid spin(even though the diff was minimal on rapid spin). I was wondering if intimidate is better than technican? If it is then I might switch for that ability too.

    This is a great stall team but needs a spinblocker for obvious reasons. Go Jellicent or Prankster(Mischeivous heart, when released) Sableye. Jellicent would replace slowbro as I did or you can try for sableye who will block spins and get priority recover, and will-o-wisp. However Sableye's defences are poor and takes full dmg from entry hazards, said why I chose Jellicent great as a mixed wall. my Jellicent set is ice beam, surf, will-o-wisp, recover.. I was thinking of using scald instead of surf and toxic instead of will-o-wisp but that will conflict with status but would help take care of fire and steel types respectively. Also, ice beam takes care of dragons and Jellicent is a bit bulkier on the special side than slowbro is and can cause serious dmg to the opponent's meinshao, blaziken if they dare use a HJK. Something slowbro cannot. Also forces a switch for CB woh are locked into water or fighting moves as well giving you a chance to predict or burn their incoming threat or recover any dmg it received from before.

    As said before. Love this team as it was my own last gen disregarding hippo. This gen I added hippo because of weather wars and LickyLicky's cloud nine is just not reliable as I thought. And I replaced slowbro with Jellicent as stated above. I liked my results

    Your stall team is excellent. So nice to see someone who had a similar team as me. I was so shocked. Also forced me to make a smogon account. Great team!
  10. Dezza Laa

    Dezza Laa

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    yeah,

    I tested this team with and without the changes I stated. On paper it looks so much better, especially synergy wise, but when you test it they aren't even comparable. Slowbro handles soo much that Jellicent can't, and Hitmontop is just 10000x better than Dory, even though Dory abuses Sand for Rapid Spin.

    The only thing I could suggest is changing TTar's moveset around. I found myself rarely using Crunch, as Pursuit was more important. Also try out Sucker Punch on Hitmontop over Mach Punch if it doesn't get much use.

    Great Team buddy. Stall being #1 in 5th gen is amazing.
  11. kalamadude

    kalamadude

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    @Temporal - haha that's really funny. Yeah this team is dynamite in this metagame. I'm really surprised by it. I made the switch to Close Combat, not sure what I was thinking before.

    As Dezza Laa mentioned, Slowbro and Jellicent just aren't really comparable. Slowbro is god in this physical based meta. Even against the strongest physical threats in the game he doesn't go down in one hit and can frequently OHKO back and then switch out to get back in working order. He's the gel that holds the team together and frankly, I don't think it would work without him.

    In my experience, spinblocking is just not that important in this meta. None of the spinners bar Starmie have reliable recovery, and Starmie is never spinning these days. And if it does, Tyranitar can come in on the spin and Pursuit it to death, surviving even if Starmie tries to attack. I've had more luck not with spinblocking, but by wearing the spinners down and resetting hazards once they die.

    Finally, I've found Intimidate to be incredibly useful on Hitmontop. His offenses are just not that impressive. In UU last generation, Technitop was great, but he just can't hold up against this meta. With Intimidate, you give yourself a lot of flexibility. You can repeatedly switch him him in and out to weaken something like a last stand ScarfChomp or the like until it's useless. He completely neuters Ferrothorn (although he dislikes the Iron Thorns). He can come in on most Tyranitars, soak up any of the relatively weak mixed moves that are flying around, neutering any physical ones, and threaten the OHKO, spinning on the switch. Intimidate gives him huge versatility and, with the given EVs and nature, makes him surprisingly bulky.



    @Dezza Laa, thanks for the tips and I will give Sucker Punch a try as I haven't really used Mach Punch in a long while. Actually, I might just run both Rest and Toxic to give him even more longevity.

    I can't see dropping Crunch as it's kind of my only way to beat Reuniclus. They almost always stay in to tank the hit and KO back with Focus Blast and Crunch OHKOs a large percentage of the time (although not 100% of the time against Bold ones, as I've had the misfortune to discover). Not a single other member of the team can stop him if Ttar doesn't (although if Ttar loses, the rest of the team can outspeed and finish him).

    But as for right now, I'm too excited about cracking #1, even for a split second, to play at all anymore XD
  12. Temporal

    Temporal

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    Hmm, I think i will make the switch to intimidate hitmontop. However, i find spinblocking still useful. I rather not have to set up hazards again and Jellicent has will-o-wisp over slowbro's scald even though scald does damage. I still want to play on wi-fi with both slowbro and jellicent. I'll rotate and replace with the one I like better. I wanted to go slowking for latis twin but Jellicent can deal with them just fine. I also prefer not to have bug weakness as well. Hmm but I do see it with slowbro now with regeneration. I haven't used it in wifi yet as I can't get one in gts and dreamworld is delayed. *I use this team in wi-fi battles by the way=p* Also fighting immunity can be helpful and force switches for bulky water and fighting locked. Hmm I guess slowbro's defenses do hold out over Jellicent being a mixed wall. I gotta give it another try then.
  13. NoJohns

    NoJohns

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    Grats on peaking at #1 kalamadude, quite an achievement especially with a stall team in the current metagame.

    Looking at this team there it has a huge weakness to Volcarona, as you stated. Blissey's Flamethrower does not do enough and Chesto Rest Volcarona, an admittedly rare but existant set can easily break through even Blissey's defenses after a few Quiver Dances. Tyranitar can come in as long as it hasn't had enough boosts, but runs the risk of getting OHKO'd by a Modest Life Orb +1 boosted Bug Buzz, or Timid after Stealth Rocks. Not really sure what you should do here, perhaps running Stone Edge on Hitmontop instead of Mach Punch, though Hitmontop gets heavily damaged by Fire Blast especially since it has no specially defensive EV's and I know that you like to play conservatively with your spinner.

    Also, having played the prototype of this team on some of my alts, I can say that this team has some trouble with opposing stall. Forretress can waltz into Skarmory's face and start rapid spinning, and Hitmontop can't really do anything to threaten Jellicent other than Toxic it. Tyranitar helps but runs the risk of being burnt by fast variants of Jellicent. Spiritomb is even worse as it's neutral to Pursuit, though admittedly it takes a massive chunk from Crunch. Might want to slap on a few Speed EVs for the sole purpose of beating Jellicent, perhaps enough to outspeed 4-12 Speed Scizor, the speed that most Jellicent aim to reach. It also helps with your Taunt Jellicent problem.
  14. irkkk

    irkkk

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    i love this team like seriously and the rate my team itself is very organized and neat so good job. On hitmontop maybe using stone edge or something because having only fighting moves could get you killed.
  15. sliceofsweiss

    sliceofsweiss

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    As mentioned above, you might want to add a non-fighting/normal move on hitmontop. spinblockers eat it for breakfast and you probably will lose it before it get the job done.


    And btw, you're VERY serperior weak.
  16. kalamadude

    kalamadude

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    @irkkk - thanks for the kind words. I'm currently testing Rock Slide/Stone Edge on Hitmontop but I haven't been at it long. I lost my #1 to some hax and haven't had the patience to ladder a lot since then.

    @sliceofsweiss - I honestly have not seen more than two or three Dusclops this generation and I would never switch Blissey out of it, instead opting to Toxic it myself and Softboil/Heal Bell away any damage he tries to do back.
  17. kejective

    kejective

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    A combination of Thundurus and Breloom will really hurt your team, but I'm sure if you outplay them it's alright.
  18. Sniipe

    Sniipe

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    Though it does possess the weaknesses mentioned above, I love your team. I am brand new to the competitive scene and have been experimenting with variations of it to ease myself in. The only thing I can say is that I have been having trouble with Grass types with Breloom, as was mentioned, but I love the Skarmory set you have. Anyway, thank you and great job on the awesome team!
  19. Krusiv

    Krusiv

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    Sorry that I don't have anything to contribute to your team, but is there a way that I can see it in action? I love watching good stall teams.
  20. Temporal

    Temporal

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    hmm I would test Fireblast over fire punch. even though fire blast is a special atk and obviously not t-tar's strong suit. skarmory can possibly live a fire punch, while (barring specially bulky skarmory's) should not be able to take a fire blast. Also fire blast stops that iron barbs+ rocky helm tactic that most nattorei's (ferrothorn) use now-a-days.

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