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Sand in my buns, ft. Patrick Starmie (OU sand offense)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Goutland, Nov 12, 2012.

  1. Goutland

    Goutland

    Joined:
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    [​IMG]

    lolwut (found from google images)

    Anyway, introduction. I've been playing since DPP on Shoddy, but this is one of my first serious teams that I think is fairly consistent. Peak rating of 1875 on the OU ladder, although currently I'm a little lower:

    [​IMG]

    This is not the only team I've used on this account, but it and its previous incarnations make up the majority of the battles. I'm done laddering for now because I've been playing a lot, and I'm just sick of salty players who go "omg crit" every game. Also gaining 1-3 points per match for a win, and losing 15. That's really annoying.

    At a glance:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I don't remember what the base of this team used to be, but the creation process was relatively simple. I made an initially bad sand team, and replaced things as I saw fit. Actually, I just started replacing things until Genesect was hardly a problem, then it suddenly started working. Go figure.

    The sets:

    Tyranitar @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 32 SAtk / 224 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Pursuit
    - Stealth Rock
    - Ice Beam

    Specially defensive Tyranitar. Specially defensive so I can switch into and kill Lati@s and Starmie, and switch into Politoed a few times. Gengar can be somewhat handled, as I can switch in and prevent him from getting up a sub, even if means sacrificing Tyranitar, as he is fairly expendable in many cases when I only need him to get rid of one pokemon. I have stealth rock to weaken switch ins to to the point where Terrakion and Breloom have an easy time cleaning up. Fire blast is there to force Ferrothorn, Skarmory and Forretress out so they don't set up too many hazards. Ice beam is my last move of choice, rather than crunch. Crunch is good for when Lati@s stay in, but even if they recover after pursuit or kill me, that's fine, as all I need is chip damage for Terrakion to revenge kill. Ice beam is mainly to prevent Landorus, Gliscor, and 4x weak dragons from setting up in my face, which happens far too often when they think they can force me out to set up and sweep, when I'm perfectly fine with staying in as death fodder just to prevent setup. I'm not exactly sure if I need the spa with ebelt, because sdef ferrothorn lives fire blast anyway, but I've had cases where they're not specially defensive and they live with like 1%. So I just added a bit for insurance.

    tl;dr: sets up rocks and sand, traps, and prevents setup.

    Breloom @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Bullet Seed
    - Low Sweep
    - Mach Punch
    - Spore

    Low sweep techniloom. Terrakion usually lures Jellicent, and Starmie usually lures Ferrothorn. This thing spores both and proceeds to wreck, even killing Tornadus-T with low sweep + bullet seed if they decide to switch in. Of course switching into either is a pretty bad idea, so I usually pivot into Tyranitar first, not fearing status, and play it from there, predicting a switch or staying in to die, giving me the free switch into Breloom if it's the latter. And of course, mach punch is great for revenge killing or sweeping weakened teams. Jolly over adamant to risk the speed tie vs other Brelooms if I really have to. It can set up on slow things, but is fairly useless when my opponent's entire team outspeeds it.

    Keldeo-Resolution @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Calm Mind
    - Hidden Power [Ghost]

    Keldeo is usually the least useful team member, but I need it solely to check Scizor. Superpower is the really the only thing it has to damage Keldeo, so I rarely have to worry about switching in. Keldeo forces SD and CB Scizor out easily, although can really only afford to do it once. Whether they stay in or switch out, something's probably going to eat a hydro pump. If I can CM on the switch, I can beat or weaken Jellicent or whatever switches in with HP ghost.

    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Rock Slide

    This is standard as hell, the chosen moves don't even need explaining. This is usually my lead against any team with Genesect, because they're most likely to lead with it if they're scarf or expert belt. If not, I'll just scout for u-turn later on to confirm it's the RP set. Close combat or stone edge heavy damage Genesect or any switch in bar Lando-T or Gliscor, but staying in is usually worth the risk anyway just to damage Genesect to the point where he's useless, unless I direly need Terrakion at full health for something else (which is pretty much never because it's so frail, but it can often live Breloom's mach punch and OHKO it in return). I always win the exchange unless it's banded or scarf with giga drain/energy ball (lol who uses that?). Terrakion is really the ultimate revenge killer, but for the things that he struggles with, such as Gliscor, opposing Landorus, and Toxicroak, Landorus and Starmie handle with ease.

    Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Rock Polish
    - Earth Power
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    RP Landorus is amazing. Usual lead against Deo-D teams, as earth power is a clean 2 hit KO. I have never seen HP ice on a Deoxys and I doubt it's going to become a thing, so Landorus is a very reliable counter. Smart players usually see this coming and lead with a counter, but I lead with Lando anyway because I don't want any unnecessary hazards to be set up. I rarely have the chance to RP up and sweep, as by the time the opponent's team is weakened enough I can just clean up with a combination of Terrakion, Breloom, and Starmie. Landorus's role is to force switches to get damage on things for Breloom and my scarfers to clean up. Landorus also acts as a secondary scizor check, but cannot switch in without taking major damage. Earth power does about 90% and is easily revengeable if it has no prior damage on it.

    Starmie @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Psyshock
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt

    The star player on my team... literally. I think Starmie as a scarfer is very underrated. Although less bulky and weaker than Genesect, it has one key thing over it: speed. It's pretty much the epitome of speed creep, but it's very effective and can win games without risking speed ties. The only priority it fears is +1 Dnite's extremespeed, but Terrakion handles that weakness just fine. Against rain teams, Starmie is great at adding chip damage to Politoed and Tentacruel when forcing switches to the point where they can't switch in anymore, or are threatened by Terrakion and Landorus. Starmie also acts as somewhat of a Genesect check, doing roughly 50% with surf to finish it off, or just deal some damage to it once it's done its job for the team. Can also surprisingly outspeed Venusaur in sun.

    Besides being plain outplayed, which happens a lot since I'm not that great of a player, things that wreck me often include specs Politoed and any Tornadus-T (when not played like an idiot who leaves it in on Terrakion, which happens surprisingly way too much). Volcarona can easily set up on my Tyranitar, but I can switch directly to Terrakion on anything but HP ground, so it's usually not a problem. Tailwind Tornadus-I has also taken a massive dump on me, and TR Reuniclus can wreck me with ease if it can switch in safely on anything but Breloom. Focus sash Breloom lead is something I haven't figured out how to deal with (lolol the team from the other thread I keep seeing; It's very solid, but seeing RMT teams on the ladder is kinda funny if I already know their sets). Amoonguss switches into my entire team with ease. I could put sub over rock polish on Landorus considering I rarely use it, but if they predict that and go for HP ice I'm just kinda boned. Dragon heavy teams are also difficult to deal with, as they are all way too bulky to be revenged without prior damage (sans Mence and Hydreigon) leaving my team with no dragon killers after the first few turns, and no chance to get up rocks.

    Being a team of one bulky mon and 5 frail offensive mons, it seems kinda bound to have a ton of weaknesses, and very few switch in opportunities, but depending on the opposing team not all of them are going to be useful anyway. After rocks are up, Tyranitar is easily expendible unless I really want rain gone, and Starmie doesn't really do much to stall teams, whereas Breloom wrecks them. And likewise, Breloom is kinda crap against a team of 4 dragons, Magnezone, and filler. Landorus, like Tyranitar, is often expendable if it means preventing the opponent from setting up.

    The original theme of the team was just "fuck Genesect" because I really don't like it and refuse to use it, but I think I've turned it into a pretty usable sand team that can deal with any Genesect with ease without excessive death foddering or taking massively powerful U-turns when predicting incorrectly. I need a break from pokemon, so I will probably retire this team and make a new one at a later date, but I just want to know what you guys think of this team. And because I'm not going to play hundreds of more matches with this team, I'd like to know if I'm missing any other big threats or any changes you would make to the team. I'm open to anything (except Genesect lol), so please leave your feedback. Thanks!

    Edit: After looking at the smog, I have no idea why I don't have Rotom-W over Keldeo. It can act as a secondary bulky pivot to Tyranitar and can damage Jellicent without any setup, while also checking Scizor. Guess I wasn't feeling any volt-turn on this team, although I have used it in the past.

    Importable, if you would like to use this team or your own variant of it:

    Show Hide
    Tyranitar @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 32 SAtk / 224 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Pursuit
    - Stealth Rock
    - Ice Beam

    Breloom @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Bullet Seed
    - Low Sweep
    - Mach Punch
    - Spore

    Keldeo-Resolution @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Calm Mind
    - Hidden Power [Ghost]

    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Rock Slide

    Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Rock Polish
    - Earth Power
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Starmie @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Psyshock
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt

  2. PDC

    PDC don't you know my nigga bkc fucking kidnap kids?
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    Hi, cool team.

    I would first suggest switching up to a Lum Berry on Tyarnitar to help against burns, paralysis, and Poison. Tyranitar makes great use of this item and Expert Belt doesn't fit Tyranitar very well. It can be used to a good extent on a stall breaking based set such as TyraniBOAH, but it is generally not as effective as it once was. Lum Berry helps TTar stay around longer by migating status. Giving you a second chance against other weather setters. I would also suggest trying out an Adamant nature on Breloom to give you more power to help defeat Tornadus - T after Stealth Rock. You outspeed after the drop anyway so this just allows you to have higher damage in your rolls. I feel it is the best option as it acts as a stronger Tornadus - T lure than you would think with some more additional power

    For my final suggestion I would change up your Starmie set a little. It is a better option overall to use a Bulky Spinner set than Choice Scarf. Terrakion already does this job very nicely and does great at it with revenging Dragonite and Volcarona with ease. I suggest you change it up because a Rapid Spinner would be great with this team and it also gives you something to defeat Gengar + Deoxys - D combinations with. Using the spread of 248 HP / 216 Spe / 4 SAtk / 32 Def give you the ability to be defensively sound and the ability to spin away hazards with ease, messing up HO teams. Running Recover and Rapid Spin over Thunderbolt and Ice Beam is fine to give you the ability to spin hazards and recover health too.

    Good luck!
  3. Goutland

    Goutland

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    Adamant Breloom does not outspeed +speed natured Tornadus-T after the drop. It hits 247, while Breloom's still at 239 with adamant. I've never used Tornadus-T, but I'm just going to assume no one uses +spa nature because that's just a complete waste of the speed tier and you don't even outspeed any unboosted base 108s ever with it unless you're scarfed, which no one uses. And since scarf Terrakion is everywhere, you wouldn't run a +spa nature anyway.

    And while I appreciate suggesting Starmie as a spinner... Deo-D HO teams were never a problem anyway, as my team isn't weak to rocks at all, and worst case scenario they get up rocks and a layer of spikes, which isn't much of a burden on my team. The point of scarf Starmie is to cover what Terrakion can't, and to minimize risking speed ties and misses if possible. I've had a lot of matches come down to a speed tie with scarf Terrakion vs scarfed Terrakion or scarfed Keldeo, and losing that automatically loses me the game. Starmie minimizes this risk by outspeeding other scarf 108s, reliably forcing Landorus-T and Gliscor out, and revenging Garchomp, which is otherwise a huge threat. Missing stone edge vs Salamence (or anything really) is no joke, and for that reason alone Starmie is more reliable vs Mence and Dragonite (after multiscale has been broken). Un-scarfing Starmie just opens me up to a lot more threats and risk taking.

    On top of that, the surprise factor of scarf Starmie is somewhat of a bonus, as almost no one uses it. This is pretty much a moot point if my opponent is halfway decent, but scrubs keep leaving in their scarf Ape, Mence, Chomp, Lando-T, or whatever thinking they'll outspeed me, because apparently Starmie only runs spinner sets.

    Lum over expert belt is something I can dig, if I can figure how many spa evs I need to reliably OHKO non spd Ferrothorns. Tyranitar's longevity isn't really important, as sand isn't vital to this team and I already outspeed Venusaur in sun (another thing Terrakion can't do) and OHKO with Psyshock after rocks or residual damage. Paralysis really hurts me the most, as often Dragonite tries to set up in my face and I need to break multiscale, or I need to prevent Landorus from destroying me if it can get up a rock polish.
  4. Reymedy

    Reymedy They live and die by my command.
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    You don't need to "outspeed" him, just Low Kick on the switch and Mach Punch with an Adamant Nature.
    I did the calculation no matter if you got Fight Gem or Life Orb, if you go Jolly Nature you will fail to kill him.
    Funny to see, in fact even with Adamant Nature, with Life Orb you have slighty less than 50% chance to kill Tornadus with Low Kick and Mach Punch. It's almost the same thing with Fighting Gem.
    I'd still recommend you to go Life Orb set with Adamant, with this you have like 1/2 chance (if Tornadus-T is full)
    -Kill him and be full life
    -Die, and get Tornadus-T dead with his own Life Orb recoil
    If he wasn't Full HP, then just go for the kill.
    Given you got Sand Storm, It's likely that Tornadus won't be totally Full hp, so yes, to me the Adamant is really worthy.

    By the way, with Adamant you kill Thundurus-T with Low Kick and Mach Punch like 100%, it's less than 50% with Jolly Nature.
  5. Goutland

    Goutland

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    Ok, that makes a lot more sense. I usually go for bullet seed after low sweep, which kills with 3 hits usually, and often fails to kill with 2. I'm sold on adamant now.

    I agree with keeping life orb, as fight gem is more suited to SD sets and I'm not running SD. I'd just be doing insufficient damage after wasting the gem. It'd be a different story if fighting gem mach punch could OHKO Kyurem-B (who's also a huge problem if it outrages turn one, otherwise rocks + mach punch KOs).

    I'd like to know what people think of my team synergy (or just of my team in general, rather than just the sets), as I haven't made too many serious teams and I really think scarf Starmie is a great underrated set that no one really uses anymore. Although Terrakion is my main late game cleaner, I think Starmie is the perfect partner as it covers its weaknesses very well and speed creeps the entire metagame like no other.
  6. Reymedy

    Reymedy They live and die by my command.
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    To be honest, don't take it as an offense, there is no strong synergy but you gathered enough strong threats (Keldeo/Terrakion/Landorus/Breloom) that you don't really need a special synergy as they work well on their own. You got an answer to the classical threats since Starmie revenge kill with a scarf alot of things.
    Funny by the way to realise that you got so many Fighting pokemons. I believe a scarfed pokemon with a psychic move and enough speed will punch holes. Sure you got Tyranitar for this matter, but given it's your only answer to enemies weather (you got no real check for Rain or Sun teams) you should not make him come too many times on the field. Moreover with your actual set you can't even 2HKO a classical Starmie, that will just need to recover and sit here to spin or deal damage. If the enemy realises your set (which shouldnt be hard) an offensive Starmie can also be a threat, given that your Ttar can't 0HKO it if the enemy doesn't try to escape (which he shouldnt do anyway since he will rather deal damage). So yes, imagine you face your own Starmie, or a version with Life Orb under Rain. I don't know what you could really do. Your only option would be to switch to your Starmie on a resisted hit (if you manage to bait the Psychock, but it still deal like 45%) and then hit back with Thunderbolt. Well, if your opponent realises your Starmie is scarfed, he'll just switch to take this obvious Thunderbolt and bring his LO Starmie another time.. and then you have nothing left to answer.
    Oh, and you got virtually nothing to take a Stoutland which could be annoying when facing one of the popular SandStout teams.


    My point is, you got alot of strong threats. But you don't build a strategy to make their sweep clean and easy. You're like banking on the fact that your opponent will just no answer to one of your sweepers in order to beat him. It's kinda sad to see that your Ttar (that is Keldeo's best partner) got so much job to do, he have to set rocks, switch weather, take hits, pursuit people and even wallbreak. He can't do all these things correctly.
    In my humble opinion, drop one of your sweepers, lighten the burden on Ttar's shoulders, in order to create a real room for the sweep of your powerhouses.

    What I would do, is change Terrakion for a Latias (a Life orb or a bulky Calm Mind set). This way you can take hits from both Rain and Sun easier, while being able to totally sponge the hits from Psychic moves.
    Moreover, change your Ttar to a more offensive set (like SR/Pursuit/Stone Edge/whatever) since he wont have to take so many hits anymore. This way he can really trap and kill things he's supposed to trap.
    I don't know honnestly, I don't want to change totally your team and I'm not really good at giving advices since I'm just playing since October.. but well try it and tell me if you find it better.
  7. Goutland

    Goutland

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    Thanks for your feedback. Opposing Starmie have given me trouble in the past, so changing my Tyranitar to an offensive set could totally mitigate that. The way I've handled it in the past was to pursuit until I die, then bring in Terrakion to punch holes in their team until basically anything can sweep.

    Stoutland is not much of a problem for this team, as it can't switch into anything, and since nobody runs jolly Stoutland, scarf Terrakion outspeeds it by exactly one point. If it locks itself into superpower on my Tyranitar, that means I just get a free rock polish or hit off on anything with Landorus, which is one step closer to a Terrakion sweep. If it locks itself into anything else I can go into Breloom or Terrakion freely and spore on the predicted switch or just deal heavy damage to anything.

    I'm no expert on team building, but I pretty much thought the point of HO was to bring a bunch of threats in order to overwhelm your opponent. My team, being very fast, forces many switches against balanced and defensive teams, and can prevent most offensive team from setting up, and has ways to deal with every priority attacker. I'm not saying it's the best, but it's slightly more than just bringing 4 random sweepers and hoping for the best.

    I think getting rid of Terrakion might ruin my team, as it's my main answer to Genesect and my main late game cleaner and revenge killer in general. Latias is a really cool pokemon I want to try, and I think I might try it over Landorus, although that really lets Toxicroak run over my entire team if it's behind a sub and predicts correctly with sucker punch and ice punch.

    I'm gonna try Rotom > Keldeo and Latias > Landorus and see how that works, shifting my team to more balanced than offensive. Thanks for the rate.
  8. Reymedy

    Reymedy They live and die by my command.
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    I think Rotom-W on Keldeo is a good idea, as mentionned, you need in a team as yours to be able to take strong HPump or things like that under Rain. Keldeo and Starmie are shaky answers to that. And he can be a great pivot able to both take hits and grant you the momentum you need in an offensive team. Plus, Volt-Switch + Pursuit is always a good thing to have.
    I feel a little sad to see you losing Keldeo.

    So yes, definitely, I think they are some tests that need to be done, and you'll come back with a stronger and far more stable team !
    I'm glad to help you, even if that was just some ideas that were thrown !



    *About Stoutland : As it's a RevengeKiller/LateGame cleaner, he wont be switching in anything, but there is nothing that can switch on the dog in your team. And he virtually, with the right move, kills anything in your team with one hit. Of course, you got Mach Punch and two scarf. But it wont be so easy to me to deal with him. It's still manageable as you said though.
  9. Goutland

    Goutland

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    Keldeo's great, but it's just not a fit for my team as stated. It only safely comes in on Scizor and Chansey/Blissey (toxic is not a problem), and I already have answers for both so it's not really needed.

    I actually used to use Stoutland on my team, but I just replaced him with Terrakion because I think he's just plain better, and doesn't need sand to function. Hell, my name is portmanteau of Stoutland and gout (lol). I just see Stoutland as Terrakion v2, as it has arguably better neutral coverage with return, and hits harder on neutral hits with choice band. My main beef with him though is that he's walled by the same things as Terrakion, and being locked into superpower is worse than being locked into close combat. It can revenge half of my team, but I usually just switch into something I don't need, die, and revenge for a 1-1 situation.
  10. Reymedy

    Reymedy They live and die by my command.
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    The fact is, Stoutland can be played with Expert Belt, you seem to forget it ! And many of your opponent will fail to anticipate this possibility aswell.
    I'd say that Stoutland works better in a balanced team, because once you grab a kill with him for instance, you need a safe switch in for the pokemon against you. You can't afford it when you only have paper pokemons.

    By the way, after a second thought, you should also give a try to Latias>Breloom instead of Latias>Landorus, Landorus got a good abilty to break Terrakion's walls.
  11. Goutland

    Goutland

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    I tried Latias > Breloom and Latias > Landorus, and it really just made my team more Genesect weak and weaker to more threats overall. Without Landorus, Jirachi becomes a huge threat, and without Breloom, [speed] boosting sweepers become a problem. Rotom > Keldeo made a positive difference though, fortunately.

    I'm currently ranked 62 on oucurrent (44 wins, 12 losses), and might go for suspect vote reqs with this team but of course, laddering is annoying and slow, and facing the same teams over and over is dumb. I've been seeing that "art of peer pressure" team spammed over and over, and it gives me trouble in the hands of a good player as it's extremely solid, but fortunately team stealers are usually pretty bad (or don't know how to use the team) so it works out for me.

    I'm still trying to figure out Ttar's moveset, but his main job is setting up rocks and being death fodder so it's not really much of a problem. As long as I don't let my two scarfers become setup fodder, I've had pretty good success with this team.
  12. Reymedy

    Reymedy They live and die by my command.
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    I'm interested, "without Breloom, [speed] boosting sweepers become a problem" which sweepers are you thinking about?
    If by this you mean that you lack priority, given your large spectrum of sweepers and of resistance with the Core Latias/Rotom-W I'm surprised this is an issue to kill back a Speed Boosting sweeper.
    RP LO Genesect is killed by Terrakion, even Giga Drain does only ~80% and RP LO Landorus is handled by a CM Latias since Latias can set-up on this thing (not 2HKO by HPIce and can set CM/Recover) and Rotom-W can take every single hit. It's only hard to switch-in on these threats, but this is what you get for playing offensive teams :p

    So yes, I'm wondering what I did forget :\
  13. Goutland

    Goutland

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    RP Genesect is still a problem even with Terrakion, as it's somewhat unrealistic to keep Terrakion at full health for the entire game, especially without a spinner. Terrakion doesn't even OHKO if Genesect is at full; CC does roughly 80%. And without any priority, who's going to finish the job if it gets a rock polish off midgame? No one, as it can pretty much OHKO my entire team with the appropriate move, sans Wash/Ttar, who are usually weakened early game and just heal him with giga drain anyway, so I really need Breloom's mach punch to finish him off after the RP if I can't outright OHKO him.

    Latias can't really do anything to Genesect, especially in rain, as HP fire won't do anything. I should say, rather than speed boosters being the problem, that Latias makes Genesect harder to handle in general, scarf or RP, as it just forces me to take excessive damage on the rest of the team switching or immediately losing Latias.

    +2 Mence/Chomp can run over my team, but it's fairly easy to stop them from getting more than one boost. RP Landorus can clean up my team late game, but it rarely ever gets the chance to set up on my team, so I don't need another check for it.

    Using Latias just seems like a liability, for the sole reason that Genesect is literally on every other team I'm facing. Even with it's great resistances, Latias doesn't seem to be able to switch into much or threaten much either, but maybe I just haven't used it enough or used it with the right support. Its resistances seem to have a lot of overlap with Rotom's too. Also without Breloom, bulky waters become much more of a problem, as even Wash's volt switch doesn't do enough to threaten Jellicent or Vaporeon and they'll just do their thing by never dying and scalding everything.

    I was probably exaggerating by saying "speed boosters" and only meaning Genesect, but Genesect is powerful as fuck and the metagame pretty much revolves around it. I gotta prepare for it somehow.

    I'm still climbing the oucurrent ladder currently (ha) at 56 with a record of 54 and 14 and score of 1918 ± 54, which was basically the same score 2 losses ago, I'm never gonna get there. :(
  14. Reymedy

    Reymedy They live and die by my command.
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    You're forgetting that Tyranitar can take RP LO Genesect hits well. Especially when Genesect doesn't get the boost in SpA.
    You should play around it, make sure Genesect doesn't get the boost he needs, then manage to deal damage on the set-up turn.
    Basically if the Genesect comes early in the game, just assume that it's a Scarf. If he comes later, don't let him set-up freely and make sure you doesn't give him +SpA and keep Terrakion or Tyranitar healthy enough to kill him.
    I don't think Mach Punch Breloom helps that much since you can't kill Geneset without let's say SR damage and LO (but it can run expert belt). You don't need so many ways to deal with one pokemon (but I admit this is one hell of a pokemon right now), you got in my opinion enough tools (for an offensive team) to deal with the Steal Bug.

    But as you're the one playing the team, do what fits your pleasure, you're the one playing I can understand that some options do not fit your playstyle or something like that. You can keep the team like that, it's already really fine.. The thing you needed was another Rain check, and now you got it.
  15. Goutland

    Goutland

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    I'm not forgetting anything. I'm not relying on my opponents to be stupid enough to set up when my checks are at full health and after they get an attack boost. That's not how RP Genesect is played, ever. Also, scarf Terrakion doesn't even beat RP Genesect 1 on 1, and isn't able to switch in.

    Breloom's LO mach punch does roughly 55% to Genesect, which is a huge amount and I think it's very necessary if I'm running two scarfers. With Breloom in the wings, I can afford to choice lock myself into rock slide (for accuracy) or surf on a revenge kill and revenge it safely if it does decide to set up in my face. Otherwise, it can just take the hit, heal up with giga drain, and sweep my entire team.

    It's not about having more options to deal with it or fitting my playstyle, it's about not instantly losing the moment they click RP and I can't OHKO them.
  16. Deluks917

    Deluks917 Ride on Shooting Star

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    How do you handle focus sash breloom leads?

    Also the way GLICKO works its much better to just switch names once your rating stalls out if you are trying for suspect quals.
  17. Goutland

    Goutland

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    I just lead Starmie and ice beam or psyshock. If they don't switch out, it's pretty much 5-5 with a huge threat eliminated, as I can just go into Landorus and finish it off.
  18. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
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    Hey there,

    This team seems like a solidish Sand offense team, but I definetly see ways it can be improved. Ok so first of all, Expert Belt is a pretty cool option on Tyranitar, but I don't think your team is utilizing it effectively. 3/4 of your moves immediately tell your opponent your set, and Pursuit isn't a move you want to go around spamming early game. For this reason I would replace Expert Belt with a Chople Berry. A Chople Berry gives you more utility vs Pokemon like Gengar, but other items can also be used. Shed Shell and a Lum Berry are also good options. I would also suggest a set change on your Landorus. RP Landorus really appreciates the power a Modest Nature gives, as it really helps it break through tougher walls. I would also suggest running 68 HP / 252 SAtk / 188 Spd on Landorus.This EV spread outspeeds all relevant threats at +2, while giving Landorus a little bit more bulk to work with. Now you mentioned that Landorus was your primary answer to Deoxys-D, and running less speed could potentially let Deoxys-D get more layers vs you, so I would suggest changing Starmie to an Offensive Spinner set. Your team has plenty of speed so losing Starmie as a scarfer should not be an issue at all. This will give you a much better answer to Deoxys-D teams, and it helps you vs slower more stallish teams. Plus having spin support is always helpful in general. A set of Hydro Pump / Thunderbolt / Ice Beam / Rapid Spin would work well on your team. It keeps the offensive pressure that your current Starmie has, but also gives the added benefit of spin. If you are very keen on keeping Scarf Starmie then I would suggest changing its moveset to Hydro Pump / Ice Beam / Trick / Rapid Spin. This can help neuter an opposing counter to Starmie and can potentially give Landorus a setup bait. Scarf Thunderbolts are also pretty weak, and its more beneficial to you to Trick something like Jellicent. Anyways, cool team gl.

    tldr:
    Expert Belt -----> Chople Berry on Tyranitar
    Timid -----> Modest
    68 HP / 252 SAtk / 188 Spd on Landorus
    Choice Scarf Starmie -----> Offensive Spinner Starmie
    or
    Thunderbolt / Psyshock -----> Rapid Spin / Trick on Starmie

  19. Goutland

    Goutland

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    I like the idea of chople, letting me beat Reuniclus and Gengar easier and technically having the upper hand as hitting two focus blasts in a row is only 49%. I replaced ice beam with crunch, so I can actually beat those fuckers who stay in and recover.

    I prefer timid over modest on Landorus for the utility it provides in checking unscarfed, max speed Jirachi and Genesect mainly. With that spread I realize I'd outspeed everything relevant at +2, but I don't always have the chance to set up. Modest nabs the OHKO on Genesect and most Skarmory (after sturdy), but the benefit of that is just mitigated by being outspeed by all variants of Genesect. Timid still 2 hit KOs 252 hp Deoxys-D, so the extra power isn't needed. Chansey isn't dying to focus blast any time soon, unless I hit 3 in a row and they don't softboiled... lol. I don't think the extra bulk is necessary either because Landorus is fairly frail and I don't think it's going to give me any extra setup opportunities, as most attacks do middling damage or absolutely murder him.

    I still don't think I need a spinner on this team, as I'm not really hazard weak, and nothing can switch in many times anyway, but I think trick is a nice option I can use over thunderbolt, which I never use ever, since Gyarados is so rare, and easily handled by Terrakion. Stall teams with hazards are annoying but are usually demolished by Landorus after its checks are removed. Psyshock on Starmie is handy for nabbing the kill on scarf (or CM) Keldeo/Terrakion, but otherwise not used much either. I think replacing it with scarf Latios might even be better, as it still gets all of the relevant kills and is more threatening in general. Maybe Draco/Surf/Psyshock/(Trick or HP fire). I really like Starmie for its coverage and water STAB, but Draco Meteor pretty much handles everything ice beam did, and is much stronger on neutral targets.

    Thanks for the rate, I'll be sure to try some of these out if I ladder, but I'm kinda burned out so I need a break from the ladder for a few days.

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