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Sand/Trick Room RMT

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Basalt, Jan 17, 2013.

  1. Basalt


    Jan 1, 2013
    Hi, this is my ever post on Smogon. I've been playing for a while using this team, and have reached a relatively high rating with it on PS! (1835 ACRE, 1888 Glicko2). I think that this team could be better, though, so I'm posting this RMT in order to see how it could be improved.

    The Team (edits in red)

    Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 180 HP/ 252 Atk / 76 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Superpower
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Stone Edge
    Tyranitar runs a standard Choice Band set. He induces weather, is my main counter to Heatran and generally wrecks other weather inducers.

    Ditto @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Imposter
    EVs: 248 HP/252 SDef/8 Def
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
    - Transform
    - HP Ice
    Ditto... doesnt have much else it can run. I use HP ice on ditto, in order to be able to counter threats such as Thundurus-T, as well as having Ice be a generally good attacking type. Ditto prevents most forms of setup on the enemy team, which I had previously found to be problematic as this team requires plently of switching. In this way, it acts as a 'glue' to hold the team together as well.

    Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Stealth Rock
    - Leech Seed
    - Gyro Ball
    - Power Whip
    Ferrothorn acts as a momentum-breaker and hazard-setter. I run fully defensive EVs, in order to better counter some of the dragons that would otherwise rip this team apart. Ferrothorn is able to usually still wall special-attackers, due to his awesome defensive typing.
    Reuniclus (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 192 HP / 64 Def / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature
    - Trick Room
    - Psychic
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    I forget why i decided to use Reuniclus, but am I glad did. Reuniclus is a great counter to many bulky threats to the team, in particular Machamp and Bulk-up Conkeldurr. His huge amount of power that wrecks most switchins is also great. HP fire is used over shadow ball as my team is mostly able to cover its ghost weakness, with two users of Pursuit under trick room, and acts as an awesome scizor lure. Enemies such as Ferrothorn and Forretress are also unable to set up hazards with HP fire on my moveset.
    Breloom (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Spore
    - Mach Punch
    - Stone Edge
    - Bullet Seed

    A Bulky Breloom set, the additional bulk placed into hp allows breloom to score some surprise KOs, such as on scarfed politoed using Ice Beam, leaving Breloom on 20% hp, provided Bullet Seed lands 3 or more times. The set also counters Scarfed Keldeo using Icy Wind, also failing to KO. Stone Edge acts as a great lure for annoying flying types, who often switch in after Breloom spores something slower. Mach Punch is an all-round great priority move.
    Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Superpower
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Pursuit
    My second priority abuser, Scizor is also used in order to nab momentum and help score some kos, such as on focus sash Alakazam. Bullet Punch + Mach Punch together are amazing, and very few can survive some combination of attacks between Scizor and Breloom.

    Threat List


    I find that my team has huge problems with Bulk-up Toxicroak. If Toxicroak is able to obtain 2 or more boosts, it's often gg for my team. Reuniclus acts as a check to Toxicroak, however, sucker punch and substitute mean that it becomes a game of prediction, where one wrong move on my part means failure. Ditto is often unable to dent toxicroak once enough boosts have accumulated, and a smaller hp pool means toxicroak can easily KO. Ditto also often doesnt even get the chance to transform, if Substitute is up.

    Gliscor, under most circumstances, does not pose much of a problem. However, if Reuniclus is KO'd, I have to rely on lucky damage rolls of Bullet Seed in order to KO Gliscor. I'd like a more solid check to Gliscor, and have tried running Ice Beam on Tyranitar to do so, but found the damage boost from Choice Band to win over it.

    Thanks for reading this thread, and please don't hesitate with any critique of the team.
  2. Dr Ciel

    Dr Ciel Banned deucer.

    Jun 16, 2012

    This is a nice combination of weather and Trick Room, so I'll give you some major props for that. Anyways, this team is really well put together, and hopefull with this rate, it can become even better. So, without further adu, let's get to the rate. First of all, I suggest that you change your Tyranitars EV spread to one of 180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Spe over your current spread. The aftermentioned spread gives Tyranitar maximizes Tyranitars power. The 76 Speed EV's allow him to outspeed uninvested base Base 70s while the remaining EV's are placed into HP to give him more bulk. Up next, I would suggest changing Ferrothorns EV spread to a slightly better one of 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD over your current spread. The given EV spread for Ferrothorn balances his Defense and Special Defense, with the emphasis on Defense, allowing him to take on a wide variety of attackers, such as Landorus, Haxorus, Gyarados, and some variants of Scizor. Lastly, the EV spread ensures Ferrothorn will not be 2HKOD by a +1 Haxorus Earthquake. Finally, I would suggest replacing Hidden Power Fire on Reuniclus to Shadow Ball. Shadow Ball gives you some insurance against Ghosts, that may give this team some trouble, such as Gengar and Jellicent. Well, that's all I have to say for now. I hope my advice helped. Have fun and good luck with your team!

    ~Dr Ciel~ (The doctor is OUT)
  3. Basalt


    Jan 1, 2013
    Thanks for the quick reply!
    Changes to Tyranitar and Ferrothorn seem like good ideas. My reasons for HP fire over Shadow Ball on Reuniclus, however, have been given in the OP, being that Reuniclus acts as an excellent Scizor lure, which is then easily KO'd by Hidden Power.
  4. Alexander.

    won the 2nd Official Ladder Tournament

    Jan 24, 2012
    Hello man,

    Nice team you have here anyway let's start with the rate!

    First of all, I agree with all Dr Ciel's suggestion, they are all very good. Then, your team has a big weakness to Calm Mind Keldeo and has a little weakness to Tornadus-T, above all the Life Orb one, you haven't switch into it but you can revenge-kill it easily so it isn't a problem at all. Looking at your threats list, your team has some problems with Gliscor and Toxicroak too. Therefore, I suggest you to use Special Defensive Jellicent, replacing Breloom. Jellicent beats Keldeo and Toxicroak, it can check well Gliscor and Life Orb Tornadus-T well and it can also take advantage of Trick Room because it's really slow so it would work very well in your team. Breloom otherwise is the most useless pokèmon here because you need more all your team members, Tyranitar puts the sandstorm, Ferrothorn puts the Stealth Rock, Reuniclus is your wall-breaker and sweeper and Scizor and Ditto are your revenge-killer. Anyway, I will post Jellicent's set below in this rate. Finally, on Reuniclus I'd use Psyshock, replacing Psychic. Psyshock allows Reuniclus to become a better wall-breaker because it allows to hit Chansey, Blissey, Gastrodon harder and it also allows to KO Terrakion when sandstorm is up, which can be a bit problematic because you can only revenge-kill it with Scizor (Ditto can't revenge-kill at 100% the Choice Scarf one and the Substitute one).

    That's all I had to say about your team. Here's the set you should use:

    Show Hide

    Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Shadow Ball
    - Scald
    - Recover

    Hope I helped, good luck!
  5. Basalt


    Jan 1, 2013
    Ironically, Breloom was my best counter to Sub-CM Keldeo; between Bullet Seed and Mach Punch, it was very difficult for Keldeo to maintain a sub. I also dont particularly mind it setting up due to the presence of Ditto. After testing Jellicent, I found it to not fit into my playstyle, and often shut down games into a stalling match. The replacement of one of my priority users, however, is a good idea. I therefore am trying:

    Choice Scarf Jirachi
    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SAtk
    Hasty Nature
    - Iron Head
    - Fire Punch
    - Ice Punch
    - Psychic

    This Jirachi runs Psychic specifically to counter Toxicroak, who gives my team the greatest trouble. Ice Punch and Fire Punch grant great coverage, and Iron Head is for the hax. Running Psychic over a move like Thunderpunch is for a few reasons:

    A) I do not mind setup, provided it is not of the bulk-up or calm mind variety
    B) Skarmory gives this team very little trouble

    I am currently running this over Scizor, but have no clue if this is the best spot for it to take over.
  6. Alter

    Alter lab report ᐛ
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator

    Jan 7, 2013

    Cool trick room team.

    I'd like to start off by recommending you change the IV spread to
    31 HP / 31 Def / 31 SAtk / 31 SDef / 2 Spe

    Simply putting Hidden Power Ice in the moveset will not change Ditto's hidden power type but simply his IVs. The reason I recommend this new spread because in the rare event that Ditto is thrown into Zoroark or a Pokemon with substitute up, he'll have slightly more defence. Also, the speed IV of 2 is simply to win in the rare Ditto vs. Ditto battle in which the slower ditto will win. This will at least ensure a speed tie with other Dittos at 2 speed IVs yet still being able to retain HP Ice.

    Furthermore, for Ditto, I suggest you try an EV spread of 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def anda Sassy nature (+SDef, -Spe). The reason I recommend the EV spread is because HP is the only stat to go over on transformation and the extra point of HP may make a difference (the 4 evs in HP are option; however, it depends if the opponent has entry hazards up). The new EVs in Special Defence are to maximize Ditto's survivability against Zoroark. Most Zoroark sets are Specially oriented but it doesn't really make much of a difference. A Relaxed or Sassy nature also puts down Ditto's speed again to combat other Dittos.

    Finally, I concur with Alexander's decision to run Psyshock > Psychic as it allows you to hit specially defensive Pokemon with more damage.

    Good luck with the team! :)
  7. Basalt


    Jan 1, 2013
    To run such a low speed IV means that Ditto risks being unable to switch in first in the event of a double switch (both pokemon switch out). As Ditto copies the Pokemon on the field at the time of switch, this could be potentially bad, and I am willing to risk losing Ditto vs Ditto for this. Advice regarding EVs and nature is duly noted, and I will change them. 248 HP is in order to obtain a Stealth Rock number.
    Thanks for the rate!

    EDIT: Apparently I was totally wrong about swapping mechanics. IVs have been changed.

    To all those suggesting Psyshock over Psychic, by running Psyshock over Psychic over Reuniclus, i no longer have any form of strong answer for Gliscor, nor Bulk-up Toxicroak. If I run Psyshock, what else would you change in order for that not to be a problem?

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