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Sandy Beaches and Electric Skies

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by hobohawk, Jan 19, 2013.

  1. hobohawk

    hobohawk

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Messages:
    21
    I’m somewhat new to the forums here, but I feel that this team has some potential, and I’d like some advice on how to improve it. It’s currently at nearly 1700 on PS. I’ve always loved sand but with the addition of Drizzle Politoed and Drought Ninetales and the banning of Excadrill to Ubers, sand has taken a big hit. Furthermore, I’ve always loved stall over pure offense as opponents seem to rage-quit more often. Without further ado, here’s the team!

    Hippowdon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 248 HP / 24 Def / 236 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Slack Off
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rock Slide/Stone Edge/Ice Fang

    First off, I had to start off with a weather starter and it was down to Tyranitar or Hippowdon. But honestly, this is sand stall and Hippowdon is built for stalling with his base 118 Defense. Specially defensive Hippowdon is much more effective than its physical counterpart, due to the abundance of special sweepers in OU. Hippowdon’s job is to set up rocks and the sand. In later parts of the game, he can generally clean up the last few members of the opposing team. Earthquake for his main STAB, slack off for healing and stealth rock. The last move is for coverage, but Rock Slide’s low base power often lets me down, yet Stone Edge’s accuracy. Ugh. I’d rather keep a rock type move to destroy Volcarona, but maybe Ice Fang’s worth against Salamence and Dragonite is worth it?

    Forretress @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    - Rapid Spin
    - Spikes
    - Volt Switch
    - Toxic Spikes

    After my specially defensive lead, I needed a physical wall. Forretress, or Ferrothorn? I picked the steel pinecone due to the ability to set up Toxic Spikes. They have become invaluable as the battle drags on. Rapid Spin for removing hazards, Spikes for more damage and Volt Switch to escape the ever-present Magnezone and other trappers, bar Dugtrio. Although most Dugtrio don’t switch in to Forretress.

    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Heat Wave
    - Roost
    - Roar

    Zapdos has always been one of my favorite Pokemon, ever since the 1st generation. After seeing another Smogon user try it on OU, I decided to give it a run on OU. Two strong coverage moves, a healing source, and a type of hazing. This set is somewhat self-explanatory. Zapdos is a great counter to both rain and sun teams because most water types can’t take a STAB Thunderbolt, and Heat Wave absolutely wrecks Venusaur.

    Heatran @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Roar
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power

    Heatran is another part of my dual anti-sun core. He can switch in, take a fire attack aimed at Forretress and crush the opposing team with STAB Fire Blast and Earth Power against opposing Heatran. However, if the other Heatran runs an Air Balloon, I cannot hit it at all. Any ideas on what to change on Heatran? Will-O-Wisp has saved my life in the past, with crucial burns on Dragonites and such. Roar is for additional forced switches.

    Landorus-T @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 Def
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn

    Landorus was suggested by a good friend of mine and his Intimidate has already proven itself. He can easily set up rocks again and sweep with just two moves. The 4th slot is open to changes, although I’m not sure what that would be. HP Ice or Superpower? I run adamant for maximum damage and the quake-edge is self explanatory.

    Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 SAtk
    Bold Nature
    - Knock Off
    - Scald
    - Rapid Spin
    - Toxic Spikes

    Tentacruel is my other answer to rain teams. He heals from the rain and can offer more spin support while setting up more hazards. The occasional burn from scald is amazing and knock off can remove leftovers from other stalling pokemon. Black Sludge and rain dish for healing, with bold for maximum defense. Yet Tentacruel is not the best of Pokemon, however I do need a bulky water type, so he’s my only choice for now. Unless Jellicent and/or Rotom-W would fit in better.

    Well that’s the team. Hope you enjoyed it and I’m always open to suggestions! Thanks!
  2. Cinco Diablo

    Cinco Diablo

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,280
    Hello.

    This is a decent stall team you have going on here. Stall is really hard to pull off in this meta, due to the power creep, but you seem to have hit the nail on the head with this team. Anyway, this team seems to be put together very well, and hopefully with this rate, it can become even better. So without further adu, let's get to the rate! Alright, first up, on our good friend Hippowdon, I suggest that you run Whirlwind in your last moveslot over the 3 possible choices you have listed. Whirlwind is a great phazing move, espically on stall teams, as it wears the opposing team down, allowing you to pick off each threat with relative ease. Moving on, I suggest you change your Forretress EV spread to one of 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD over your current one. This set takes advantage of Forretress' huge defenses, allowing him to take a wide variety of attacks from the physical side, while also being able to take some weak special attacks. Finally, I would suggest running a spread of 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe over your current one. As you already know, the EV spread allows Heatran to tank special hits to the best of his ability. While staying on Heatran, I suggest using Lava Plume and Toxic over Will-O-Wisp and Fire Blast. Lava Plume's 30% burn rate makes it incredibly for physical attackers to take on Heatran. Toxic on the other hand allows Heatran to shut down Chansey/Blissey and any bulky waters that might otherwise wall Heatran. Well, that's all I have to say for now. I hope my advice helped. Have fun and good luck with your team!

    ~Dr Ciel~ (The doctor is OUT)
  3. Mr. Green

    Mr. Green

    Joined:
    May 14, 2011
    Messages:
    143
    Hi, there

    Team solid enough, it all away I do not understand why two Pokemon that place Stealth Rock, I would keep Stealth Rock Hippowdon only on modifying the set of Landorus in Scarfer, so he can finish his opponents once damaged by Entry Hazards.
    You also have two Rapid Spinner I suggest you take one, in this case I would keep Forretress, since it is the only place that the Spikes, and Tentacruel can not place them, Forretress also works better than Tentacruel under Sandstorm, Tentacruel would help if you were against Rain, but if you do not play against a Rain team, proves quite useless, I would put someone in his place, which solves the problem of Mamoswine that is a huge threat to this team, you may put a bulky Rotom-W instead of Tentacruel, in this way you would be protected by Mamoswine, since Rotom-W is immune to Earthquake, does not take anything from STAB Ice, would take only a little 'of damage from Superpower but in this case kill Mamoswine with a Hydro Pump.

    That would change now is the moveset of Heatran, since with the set SDefense is better to use Leftovers for him to recover HP each turn seen that Heatran is not equipped with a Recovery move, then say to put Leftovers> Air Ballon and 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd with Toxic> Will-o-Wisp, Lava Plume> Fire Blast and Protect> Earth Power. Lava Plume has a 30% to burn the opponent, then I would say go to Toxic, which, moreover, should not be in conflict with status Toxic Spikes, Protect instead serves to facilitate the recovery of HP every turn and scouting, sets opponents.
    Last thing I would change would be the fourth slot Hippowdon, I suggest Whirlwind, to send away Sweeper annoying for example Dragonite or Rock Polish Landorus, but others I have done two examples.
    Good, luck with your team!

    Set
    Show Hide

    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Hydro Pump
    - Volt Switch
    - Pain Split

    Stealth Rock and Whirlwind on Hippowdon

    Landorus-T (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd with Calm nature (for Heatran)
    Lava Plume > Fire Blast (for Heatran)
    Protect > Earth Power (for Heatran)
    Toxic > Will-o-Wisp (for Heatran)
  4. Jimbon

    Jimbon FAKE TRAIN
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    513
    Hi there,

    Pretty solid stall team here, but there are some things that I would change. I think two Rapid Spinners on the same team is slightly redundant, I'd argue Tentacruel is better for your team, mainly giving you an answer to Keldeo who otherwise sweeps you if Zapdos has taken prior damage. Forretress might provide you with another physical wall, but ironically it cannot beat any physical attacker with your moveset. It's a sitting duck against Terrakion and Mamoswine, two of the Pokemon it's meant to be countering. If you want a good replacement for it, I think something like Scarf Jirachi would work -- in general, I think a Scarf Steel type would work well in this spot, so you might want to try something else if Jirachi doesn't work for you. In general, Jirachi gives you some form of offense on Stall, which is really nice in this metagame. It breaks down stuff like last 'mon Calm Mind Reuniclus with Trick, as well as helping you beat Mamoswine / Terrakion, as well as Dragons. In general it just provides you with a revenge killer to aid against speed boosting Pokemon, which do look quite threatening.

    However if you do not agree that this is the best change, then you might want to drop Tentacruel and choose Forretress as your spinner. If you do go with this, then you might want to drop a move on Forretress to make room for Gyro Ball, I'd suggest getting rid of Toxic Spikes, as they really aren't that effective in this metagame. In Tentacruel's place, I think you be better off with Jellicent, as Rotom-W still leaves you helpless against Keldeo. Jellicent also provides you with a Spinblocker, which is important because you will want to make sure your hazards stay on the field for the entirety of the match. Jellicent also gives you an answer to Calm Mind Reuniclus thanks to Taunt, while also breaking down Ferrothorn with Will-O-Wisp + Taunt, which is important because Ferrothorn in Rain looks incredibly annoying to face.

    There are also a few small nitpicks that need addressing.
    • For Zapdos, you might want to run a spread of 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spe, giving you an extra switch into Stealth Rock as you now have an odd HP number. This may be important when you urgently need to Roost off damage.
    • Also for Hippowdon, if you're really undecided on that last move for it, I think you should run Ice Fang. Hippowdon is still a good switch for Dragonite / Salamence even when you're not running any Defense investment, as well as helping you against Rock Polish Landorus easier, which is important if it gets a Special Defense drop with Earth Power.
    • Additionally, you might want to change Knock Off on Tentacruel (if you choose to keep it!) -- I'm not sure how important removing Leftovers on a Pokemon is, when your hazards already deal a significant amount, while Sandstorm removes Leftovers recovery anyway. The move you can run is up to you; Protect could work against opposing Rain Teams for constant and guaranteed recovery. Toxic could be used to cripple common switch-ins to Tentacruel that resist Scald such as Latias, Celebi among others, generally making it easier to break down bulkier 'mons. Giga Drain could also be used in that spot, to handle Calm Mind Keldeo better, while also faring nicely against Gastrodon / Quagsire / bulky waters.

    Good luck!

    sets (open)
    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 Spe
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Iron Head
    - U-turn
    - Ice Punch
    - Trick

    Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 Spe
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Taunt
    - Recover
    - Will-O-Wisp

    tl;dr (open)

    Either of:

    • Scarf Jirachi > Physically Defensive Forretress
    • Physically Defensive Jellicent > Physically Defensive Tentacruel

    Other changes:

    • 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spe > 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef on Zapdos
    • Ice Fang > Rock Slide / Stone Edge for Hippowdon
    • Toxic / Protect / Giga Drain > Knock Off on Tentacruel
  5. hobohawk

    hobohawk

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Messages:
    21
    Thanks for the feedback guys! I'll definitely try the Rotom-W and/or Jellicent sets along with the modifications to Heatran. However, would taking advantage of the special defense boost sand gives to rock types be a good idea? Maybe switching Landorus-T to Kabutops with spin support would be helpful. Or other rock types? Not sure about this.

    Maybe:
    Kabutops>Landorus-T
    Ferrothorn>Forretress
  6. hobohawk

    hobohawk

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Messages:
    21
    Again thanks for the replies. With the Jellicent change and modifications to Heatran, I'm 10-2 so far. Any other suggestions? Thanks guys.

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