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Sandy

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by gookie, Apr 20, 2012.

  1. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2010
    Messages:
    2,745
    [​IMG]

    AN INTRODUCTION

    Sand in Ubers is less of an oddity than it was back in the day. With the prevalence of Kyogre, Groudon, and Rayquaza being an ever-present wrench in the cogs of the 'lesser' weather, players may question its viability entirely.

    I've been playing with sand a lot, and I can tell you there are a basic defensive backbones these teams need to employ.

    With Tyranitar and Excadrill being hopelessly Fighting, Ground, and Water-weak, strong defensive measures must be put in place. However, I found that Tyranitar as a sand summoner struck a place too far up in the offensive spectrum. Its exploitable typing left a large need for pokemon such as Skarmory and Giratina but Tyranitar's lack of longevity lead teams to be somewhat imbalanced, as the summoner would consistently be outlasted by its team mates. This translates to more offensive sand teams being used with Tyranitar; of course, these require very strong play as to not get run over by the big threats to sand, especially lesser seen Arceus formes, like Water and Fighting. Standard sand threats like RP Groudon and Specs Kyogre would run through weakened Tyranitar sand teams which rely on Ghost Arceus and Ferrothorn to sponge them, respectively.

    This lead me to try out Hippowdon, the more defensive of the two Sand Streamers. It doesn't beat Dialga or Deo-s, but it can stand up to Groudon (Life Orb Adamant Earthquake doesn't 2HKO), ExtremeKiller (barely xD), Zekrom, you get the idea. I just found its stability, reliable recovery, ability to stand up to at least one of the weather inducers, and its great physical bulk leading me to pick Hippowdon over Tyranitar in the pursuit of a more consistent sand team.​

    The Team:

    [​IMG]

    Hippowdon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Toxic
    - Earthquake
    - Slack Off​

    [​IMG]

    Salamence @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Dragon Claw
    - Fire Blast
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake​

    [​IMG]

    Excadrill @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sand Rush
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Rapid Spin
    - Rock Slide​

    [​IMG]

    Skarmory @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Spikes
    - Roost
    - Toxic
    - Whirlwind​

    alternate (open)

    I've also used Ho-Oh in this slot, less insurance against ExtremeKiller, but it offers the same 4* Grass resist and Ground immunity, and a LOT more special bulk and offensive presence. Also helps deal with all Darkrai but NP LO (that thing does like 70% with + 2 Dark Pulse =_=).
    I used standard Subroost, because it's the best set.

    [​IMG]

    Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 224 HP / 252 Atk / 32 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Substitute
    - Brave Bird
    - Sacred Fire
    - Roost​

    Ho-Oh basically wrecks everything if it gets a Substitute up, save, like, Rock types, Lugia, Giratina-A, Heatran, and Dialga in rain.


    [​IMG]

    Gastrodon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Storm Drain
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic
    - Recover
    - Ice Beam​

    [​IMG]

    Arceus @ Choice Band
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Trick
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake​


    alternate (open)

    If you're using Ho-Oh I'd recommend a Rock Arceus here, even without Ho-Oh it's a solid choice. It provides some immense special bulk and a mono CM / WoW set provides extra insurance against ExtremeKiller and a strong offensive threat.

    [​IMG]

    Arceus-Rock @ Stone Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 HP / 96 SAtk / 160 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Judgment
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Recover
    - Calm Mind ​

    EVs are enough to outspeed non Choice Scarf Terrakion, rest dumped in HP and Special Attack (you can shift 96 SAtk to SDef, but I enjoy the power for doing like upwards of 70% to Skarmory with a +1 Judgment)


    Threat List

    I'm too lazy to write a detailed threat list but I'll go through some of the annoying and potentially annoying Pokemon.

    Mewtwo: it will never sweep me outright thanks to Scarf Salamence, CB ExtremeSpeed, and Excadrill, but if it's played right it will probably take something out seeing as Excadrill can't OHKO it like it does to Darkrai unless I get Spikes AND Stealth Rock down.

    Gliscor: always gay for sand teams, why I would maybe put Ice Beam over WoW on Arceus Rock. It can't really stand up to ExtremeKiller that well though, and +2 Rock Slide still does a hefty amount. It can't touch Skarmory, but if it has Taunt Skarmory is forced into struggle. It's just really annoying.

    Rayquaza: the fearsome wallbreaker can come in on Hippowdon and Skarmory almost for free, only fearing Toxic. If it is a mixed set and I mispredict I'll probably lose something, it won't sweep me clean though.

    Fighting Arceus: usually the bane of sand teams it is solidly handled by Gastrodon and Skarmory can whirlwind it in a pinch.

    Terrakion: I only have to really worry about CB and Swords Dance, as Scarf doesn't do enough damage. CB 2HKOes Skarmory easily, and Hippowdon also dies if it has taken some residual. Safely revenge killed by Excadrill and Salamence though, if I let it get two boosts I'm pretty screwed though.

    Darkrai: It's really irksome, but the standard fodder something to sleep depending on what is least useful, then take it out with Excadrill or Arceus.

    Dialga: Gastrodon takes it only nicely, but a critical hit Draco Meteor always makes me cry a little. Specs also kills things, so I gotta watch out. It's not a big deal if I'm using Ho-Oh or Arceus Rock though.

    Palkia: Same deal as Dialga pretty much. Specs worrisome, everything else manageable.

    Reshiram: Same thing :)

    Shaymin-S: Skarmory can sponge Seed Flares, and my three offensive Pokemon can all revenge kill it. I only mention this because more often than not it will kill something because it gets a crit or three flinches in a row, etc.

    Garchomp: SubSD can really blow holes in my team if Skarmory is weakened or I miss. I mean I have Skarmory but this thing is still irritating.

    most other things are pretty manageable.



    ~[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]~

    It does actually look a lot like an OU team with Arceus on it.​



    Importable:
    Show Hide

    Hippowdon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Toxic
    - Earthquake
    - Slack Off

    Salamence @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Dragon Claw
    - Fire Blast
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake

    Excadrill @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sand Rush
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Rapid Spin
    - Rock Slide

    Skarmory @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Spikes
    - Roost
    - Toxic
    - Whirlwind

    Gastrodon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Storm Drain
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic
    - Recover
    - Ice Beam

    Arceus @ Choice Band
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Trick
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake



    rate/hate/steal

    you know the drill~

    thanks to Fatecrashers for the banner
  2. Tomahawk

    Tomahawk Nidoqueen is good in Ubers!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    2,049
    This team deserves a rate.

    Threats:

    Specs Dragons: STRONF. Gastrodon can't take strong Draco Meteors since 111 / 82 defenses isn't really good enough to tank strong hits, and Skarmory also takes a ton from Draco Meteor with its poor HP and SpD, and gets killed by pretty much all coverage moves (HPump from Palkia, Blue Flare from Reshiram, Thunder or Fire Blast from Dialga or Palkia).
    Darkrai: this is annoying to every team without Heracross or Primeape so it's not really that weird if it gives you problems. However, you don't really have something that can take its hits either, since a lot of your team takes a huge hit and something like Sub / Dark Void / Dark Pulse / NP is a big problem for your team.
    MixQuaza: troublesome as you said; Draco Meteor spamming is threatening similar to Specs Dragons, but Gastrodon can't take it on at -2 either because of Outrage and Skarmory falls to Fire Blast. Revenging it could work but you have to predict well and likely something is going down if you switch it in.

    Those problems are hard to fix though without opening you to much else, as pretty much there's always a threat to your team in Ubers. Best thing I can think of using Jirachi somewhere on your team. Standard Wish Jirachi can take on Specs Dragons pretty nicely, as well as Darkrai. It also provides your team with Wish and paralysis support. However, Mixquaza still beats it if it Fire Blasts on the switchin, though if it Draco Meteors Jirachi has an easy time against it. I'm sure you know the set, but here it is just in case.
    The problem is fitting it on your team. It could work over Jirachi but that leaves you open to several physical attackers such as EKiller Arceus (though Hippowdon isn't 2HKOed by +2 ExtremeSpeed so you can Toxic to beat it!). Losing Spikes also sucks.

    In any case, good luck with this team, looks cool.
  3. Donkey

    Donkey

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    529
    Hey poppy! Great team you've got here.

    I'd definitely suggest the Arceus-Rock set you supplied instead of Arceus-Normal. While Trick is helpful and unique, Arceus-Rock greatly benefits your team by helping to check Ho-Oh and Rayquaza who can tear large holes in your team once they set up. Since +2 Rayquaza Extremespeed OHKOs Mence (I think it would KO without Life Orb if SR was up), and you can't OHKO with Arceus's Extremespeed (not to mention a lot of Rayquazas will switch out on Arceus) Rayquaza has the potential to sweep you if you don't get Rocks up or have Arceus.

    Gliscor is also a very large threat. It can setup on almost all of your pokes, Taunt shutting down Skarmory and preventing Hippo from recovering. You could try to outstall it, but if there are any forms of hazards up you probably won't want to sacrifice Excadrill to spin. This being said, I'd recommend Ice Fang on Hippowdon instead of Toxic. This also eases your Rayquaza weakness. While this may make last poke Arceus a problem, you still have Gastrodon to Toxic it as it tries to setup, and Exca to tank an Extremespeed and deal a hefty amount. Sand would kill it off eventually (assuming no lefties/recover which are both rare). I know that you currently are carrying Toxic on Skarmory but talked about replacing it with Taunt to shut down Ferro, but remember that Ferro can still get spikes up on switches so it might be worth keeping Toxic, especially to hit those Draco/Spacial Rend spammers on switches.

    On a side note, Arceus-Rock patches up your specs dragons weakness described by Tomahawk for the most part. As long as you predict well, specs dragons shouldn't give you much of a problem. Hydro Pump Palkia is the only threatening Specs Dragon to CM Arceus Rock.

    I also don't really see the point of having Earthquake instead of Earth Power on Gastrodon, since CM Kyogre will just laugh at it and Tentacruel will take about the same from Earth Power after a storm drain boost. Earth Power also hits Dialga harder, which may be more important for your team since Tentacruel is easily dealt with and not a big threat at all.

    This makes me wonder though, what exactly do you have to deal with bulky Scald/Roar or CM Surf Kyogre? It looks like since you don't have Roar on Hippowdon, you'd have to either movestall with Gastrodon or hope it doesn't get good sleep talk rolls and try to muscle through it with Excadrill + Salamence.

    All in all, cool team man and nice to see some original sand in ubers!

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