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Savior (Peaked #1)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by complete legitimacy, Jan 19, 2013.

  1. complete legitimacy

    complete legitimacy Honko's Happy Funtime With Men
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2011
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    [​IMG]

    Savior
    [​IMG]
    A Team by complete legitimacy

    Hey guys, I'm complete legitimacy here with an RMT. I posted my last team, an RU team, about six months ago, the most successful team that I've ever used in that metagame. Now, I'll share the most successful team that I've ever used in the OU metagame. However, before I do that, I'd like to share my history in the OU metagame, as well as this team's history. I first started playing Pokemon in like August of 2011, and of course I started with OU. I obviously sucked back then, and I was just content with playing on the simulator for a few months and just content with the metagame that I was playing, too new to really care about tiering or anything like that. That being said, I decided to join Smogon in November of that year, and my first post was an RMT that showcased my team-building ability and playing skill at that point (admittedly, not that good). I decided to immediately involve myself in tiering then, and I made a bunch of posts in the Deoxys-S suspect thread, having really no idea what I was talking about. I then dabbled in C&C, generally posting bad sets and trying to revamp analyses that didn't need an update. I was pretty much a generic new user.

    I didn't have much luck in BW1 OU, so I decided to delve into the lower tiers, namely RU, and I honed my skills there in a much better metagame, and became decent at this game. I got into RU tiering then and started writing analyses, and actually started to contribute something of acceptable quality. However, when BW2 OU tiering started, I wanted to try my hand at the tier again, and I'd get a chance to see how far I'd come. I've now qualified for 3 of the last 4 suspect tests, and it's been a great feeling to know that you have actually gotten better at something that you've been spending the majority of your time on for the past year. I think that I'm a pretty good ladder player, and I have gotten further in some tournaments than in the past, but I still don't really consider myself a good player because when I hear the teambuilding and playing processes of an actually good player, I see the difference between myself and them (tbh I'm using one particular person as an example but I'll keep him anonymous). That being said, I feel like I have progressed over the course of more than a year.

    I created this team during the Garchomp suspect test, back in September I believe. I had always had success with semistall, but I knew how offensive BW2 OU was. That still in mind, I wanted to create the perfect team to help me to qualify for voting reqs. When I first made this team, I kept getting destroyed by Sheer Force Landorus-I (and literally everyone was using it at this time), and I thought of giving up on the team. Instead, I decided to fix the team, and the result was a masterpiece. This is pretty much the only team I've used since I made it in September, and I'll likely continue to use it. One of the reasons why I like this team so much is that it is exactly what the BW2 OU metagame is not; I don't have weather, I'm not using offense, I don't have priority, and I don't have a Choice Scarf mon. It's also not prone to team matchup at all, and I can easily defeat any other team so that if I lose, it's because I was outplayed (or haxed obv). I hope that this team is a pioneer for stall in BW2, because although it's not traditional stall, it does rely upon three things: entry hazards, status, and abusing hax. I truly believe that this is the perfect team for me in the BW2 OU metagame, and I hope that you feel the same way after reading this RMT.

    Team-Building Process (open)
    [​IMG]

    I started with Landorus-T. From the start of BW2 I thought it had potential, and boy was I right.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    I was beginning to form my near-impregnable defensive core, and Jirachi was a great addition. Not only was it the best Tornadus-T counter and pretty much every stallish team needs a Jirachi anyway, it had good synergy with Landorus-T and could pass it Wishes.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Now that I had my Stealth Rock out of the way, I was looking to add some Spikes. Realistically, I'm only going to use Skarmory or Ferrothorn for Spikes, and at this point I really need Water resists to check rain, so Ferrothorn was the easy choice. Also, Skarmory has a lot of overlap with Landorus-T.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Now that I had hazards and paralysis support, what better Pokemon to take advantage of them than MixMence? The embodiment of a badass lure, it also provided some nice resistances to Water-, Fighting-, and Fire-type attacks, as well as checking that annoying bitch Breloom.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I always like to have Rapid Spin on my teams, and Salamence appreciates it the most. Starmie was the natural choice to provide another rain check while also being a hard stop to Tentacruel, and helps a lot against Deoxys-D offense.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I honestly forget what I had here originally, but I knew that it made the team really weak to Sheer Force Landorus. I went through a bunch of things in the last slot, and I know I used a Gastrodon at one point (2HKOed by Earth Power :[), but I eventually settled on Latias. Latias was a godsend to the team, giving me a reliable Landorus, Keldeo, and Thundurus-T switch-in.


    Team at a Glance

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    A Closer Look

    [​IMG]
    Landorus-T (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk,-SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn

    Landorus-T is probably my favorite new addition to the OU metagame from BW2. It's just so good at what it does, and it's great to have a hard counter to Terrakion, and also have a generally good check to Dragonite and Salamence that can set up Stealth Rock. It just has a lot of uses, and sticks around for a while despite its lack of reliable recovery. It's also a hard counter to Scizor. I typically lead with Landorus-T because I like to have my Stealth Rock up early, especially if the opponent doesn't have a spinner. It's also a very reliable Jirachi switch-in, and can even counter SubCM sets with Water Pulse in the rain because it's really weak even after a boost. Landorus-T doesn't have much use against rain teams except for setting up Stealth Rock, so I typically use it for getting rid of Ferrothorn. If it's still in good health in the late-game, I can use it to tank a Hurricane from Tornadus-T and OHKO in return with Stone Edge. The EV spread is pretty standard, and allows Landorus-T to beat even SD Rock Gem Terrakion thanks to Intimidate. Earthquake is generally my go-to move and it's pretty powerful, and Stone Edge is useful to hit those Flying-types and Rotom-W, and I'll use it if I predict a switch to the latter. I don't really use U-turn that much, but it does get that extra 20% on Politoed or paralyzed Rotom-W, and hits some things like Latias harder than anything else. Paralysis support is key for Landorus-T to function to the best of its potential, and it can often go on a mini-sweep late-game when the opposing team is all slower than it. Landorus-T is pretty underrated, for now.

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 248 HP / 228 SDef / 32 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef,-SAtk)
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Body Slam
    - Iron Head

    Jirachi is just so good in the metagame right now. In a Tornadus-T metagame, there's really no reason not to use it on any stall-based team. Generally, in any given situation Jirachi is too valuable to be sacrificed. Even when it's not my first switch-in to anything left on the opposing team, its inability to be OHKOed by a neutral attack 99% of the time is often invaluable, and Wish support can be game-changing. Wish is just such a good move, and although I mostly use it to heal Jirachi, it can also be used to effectively heal Landorus-T or Ferrothorn because they are the only team members that lack reliable recovery. I use Protect out of necessity, and it's helpful in case I get critted or something so I have an insurance policy. Body Slam and Iron Head are just a brutal combination, and I've paraflinched Jellicents to death. Jirachi is a decent Breloom check that I can switch into, because Salamence gets Spored 95% of the time. It's also decent against Thundurus-T, and can cover Latias if it gets in a pinch. Body Slam is superior to both Thunder Wave and Thunder in my opinion, because 60% is still a very good chance, and the ability to paralyze Dugtrio and Thundurus-T is so valuable. Of the many Dugtrios that I've faced that try to trap Jirachi, I've paralyzed literally every single one of them, at least in recent memory. The EV Spread is pretty standard as well, and outspeeds max Speed Tyranitar, as well as Adamant Breloom. Just as a note, if max HP makes my Pokemon take more from any entry hazards, then I'll take a point out and place it somewhere else. I used to use Jirachi to serve as a decent Genesect check, but the Rock Polish set destroyed me if I didn't get the paralysis with Body Slam.

    [​IMG]
    Ferrothorn (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 248 HP / 88 Def / 172 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def,-SAtk)
    - Spikes
    - Leech Seed
    - Thunder Wave
    - Power Whip

    Unlike the previous two mons, I can't really say that Ferrothorn is really good in this metagame in particular, because it's always been really solid in any BW metagame. Ferrothorn is my Spiker of choice that is really good against rain, which is everywhere. The EV spread is nothing but standard, and it allows Ferrothorn to take both Outrages and Hydro Pumps, which both tend to hurt a majority of the metagame. Leech Seed is pretty much a necessity on any Ferrothorn set because it's its only method of recovery outside of Leftovers. Thunder Wave compliments Jirachi and Latias's paralysis and is good for Landorus-T and Salamence in particular so that they can mitigate their relatively low Speed. Power Whip fits a lot better than Gyro Ball on this set because I'm using Thunder Wave, and one of Ferrothorn's main roles on the team is to kill bulky Waters and Starmie. Ferrothorn is pretty necessary for the team and is irreplaceable imo, but it's the mon that honestly matters least in most situations. I typically use it to sponge Outrages from Dragonite and Salamence that are easily lured if Landorus-T is at low health or I want it to be healthy to take on Terrakion or something. Ferrothorn is my first switch-in to Politoed if I haven't figured out its set yet, because a burned Ferrothorn is better than a dead Starmie, and Specs Toed hits like a truck. But yeah, it's Ferro, switch in on stuff you resist, set up Spikes, use Leech Seed, hit switch-ins with Thunder Wave; the usual stuff.

    [​IMG]
    Salamence (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 100 Atk / 176 SAtk / 232 Spd
    Rash Nature (+SAtk,-SDef)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - Brick Break
    - Roost

    MixMence is definitely the best lure I've ever used. Salamence pretty much destroys stall all by itself, and can lure out both physical and special walls (pretty much just Tyranitar but still). Good thing too, because otherwise I'm actually very weak to stall. Salamence is so good because I can just double switch to come in on Gliscor, Tyranitar, or Landorus-T, and they'll all die to the appropriate move after Stealth Rock. It doesn't really have many defensive responsibilities aside from Breloom and SD Roost Scizor, so all its time is spent on the offensive. This is probably the best Salamence set imo, because while I like DD it's always been revenge killed a bit too easily, and Scarf is so lacking in immediate power that it's always been incredibly easy for me to play around. I think that Moxie in general is overrated and Intimidate is too awesome to pass up, and I got that double Intimidate to counter any physical attacker so they can get at me. Anyway, Draco Meteor is really strong and does a ton to like anything and OHKOes most physical walls which is awesome (although Sp Def Hippo can suck my dick). Fire Blast is mainly used against Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Skarmory, although the latter takes like 60% from Draco Meteor anyway iirc. The mighty Brick Break is really only useful for Tyranitar and the blobs, but I need to predict the switch and have some hazards to actually do something to them. It's also the only move with perfect accuracy, and can be helpful if I wanna do like 30% to Rotom-W or something. Roost is a godsend though, and is actually really easy to use, especially against a stall team, which is of course what Salamence is most useful for. The spread isn't standard anymore, but it's still very good, with the Speed outrunning Adamant Haxorus and neutral Kyurem-B so they both die to Draco Meteor (the former even at -2), and the Attack always allowing Salamence to OHKO Tyranitar after Stealth Rock. The rest is placed in Special Attack. If you're gonna use MixMence imo, you should be using this set, because otherwise you still lose to stall, and the point of this set is to beat stall.

    [​IMG]
    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 248 HP / 20 Def / 24 SAtk / 216 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd,-Atk)
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Rapid Spin
    - Scald
    - Recover
    - Psyshock

    Starmie is an integral part of my team, not only because it is the fastest member of my team, but it's also my spinner, which is so crucial to have in this metagame. This is a pretty much standard defensive Rapid Spin set, which focuses on longevity (as does everything on this team). Scald is a really awesome move in general, and it burns things. Psyshock is a great move on this set because it will always OHKO Gengar with my EVs, and still outspeeds ofc. It also allows Starmie to deal significant damage to Tentacruel, and it does like 30% to most Jellicent so I can beat it with some hazards and other residual damage. The Defense EVs allow Starmie to always live a CB Terrakion Stone Edge, and I like to have a 0 Attack IV on anything that doesn't have a use for Attack to reduce confusion damage, which is actually relevant because of Tornadus-T. Starmie is my primary switch-in to defensive Politoed after it's revealed Scald or Leftovers, and it also revenge kills Terrakion and Keldeo. It can deal a good number on threats such as Garchomp and Thundurus-T with Scald too, and its Speed comes in handy a lot. It also is my secondary switch-in to Breloom provided it's taken Stealth Rock damage, because then Psyshock OHKOes. Tyranitar isn't as big an issue as you would think, because I can easily double switch to Salamence and kill it with Brick Break. The only time Starmie usually dies is when I'm saccing it, and things generally don't go well if I let Starmie die earlier than I wanted it to.

    [​IMG]
    Latias (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 44 SAtk / 24 SDef / 192 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd,-Atk)
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Surf
    - Thunder Wave
    - Roost

    Latias is the MVP of the team. Like Starmie, it hardly ever dies if I don't want it to, and it holds the team together by checking so many crucial threats in the metagame, such as Keldeo, Landorus, and Thundurus-T. This is an original set that I created to fit the team's needs perfectly, and the EVs ensure that Latias outspeeds Garchomp and will always live 2 HP Ices from LO Sheer Force Landorus after Stealth Rock, and can 2HKO with Surf. The leftover EVs are thrown into Special Attack. Dragon Pulse is a reliable and powerful STAB move that does a lot of damage to a lot of stuff, and is of course useful for revenge killing Dragons like Salamence and Garchomp. Surf compliments Dragon Pulse really well, and hits the especially important Heatran, which Latias can beat all variants of that lack Toxic. Because rain is up in a lot of battles, Surf actually becomes pseudo-STAB as well, and is slightly more powerful against neutral targets. Thunder Wave is the real crux of the set though, and Latias is incredibly good at spreading paralysis. It used to be good for luring in and paralyzing Genesect, but that ship has sailed. Nowadays, Latias can take a hit from Tornadus-T and paralyze it, and keep Roosting until it gets para'd, and then 2HKO it. Roost is the obligatory recovery move, and is chosen over Recover because the mighty Imprison is more likely to be used alongside Recover than Roost. If you haven't already noticed, those are just the kind of things that I do. Latias is slightly weaker to Tyranitar than even Starmie because it can't burn, but once again, champion Salamence can kill it with Brick Break. Latias is an amazing Pokemon in the metagame right now, but it's getting the praise it deserves.​

    Threatlist (open)
    Standard OU Offensive Threats

    [​IMG] Abomasnow:
    • Mixed Attacker - Can be kind of a bitch with its coverage. Jirachi is my primary switch-in, and I believe Salamence can live an Ice Shard because of Intimidate. Latias can also live anything and paralyze for hax.
    • Choice Scarf - Jirachi is more a more solid check than to the mixed attacker, and if I know it's Choiced it's certainly a lot easier to play around.
    [​IMG] Alakazam:
    • Focus Sash - Jirachi is a hard counter, and Latias is also a good check. Starmie can take a hit and retaliate as well.
    • Offensive Calm Mind - Same as above but Starmie can no longer do anything and Latias will eventually get worn down as well.
    [​IMG] Azelf:
    • Lead - U-turn with Landorus-T into Starmie to spin its Rocks away while also hopefully setting up my own Rocks.
    • Dual Screens - Can't stop it from setting up dual screens, but those types of teams aren't threatening to me. Nevertheless, I have the mighty as fuck Brick Break.
    • Nasty Plot - Latias is a pretty good check, and can paralyze.
    • Choice Band - Pretty easy to predict around, and I'm sure Jirachi can take anything.
    [​IMG] Azumarill:
    • Choice Band - Kinda tough in theory but I can usually easily beat it because three of my four Water resists are only susceptible to one move, and Starmie can switch in on anything.
    [​IMG] Breloom:
    • Physical Attacker - Salamence is the first switch-in, and usually gets Spored. My next switch-in is to Starmie on the SD, and OHKOes after Rocks with Psyshock. Latias and Jirachi are also good checks, and Landorus-T
    • Choice Band / Choice Scarf - Salamence. If it gets Spored, then Latias and Jirachi are also good.
    • Bulk Up - Same as Choice.
    • Sub Punch - Same as Choice.
    [​IMG] Celebi:
    • Tinkerbell - Paralysis is kind of a bitch but if it has HP Fire then Landorus switches in all day, and if it has HP Ice then Ferrothorn switches in all day, and neither of them mind paralysis.
    • Nasty Plot Sweeper - Latias is the most solid counter I have, and Jirachi is a good check if it avoids Earth Power.
    • Choice Specs / Choice Scarf - Same as NP.
    [​IMG] Cloyster:
    • Shell Smash - Ferrothorn and Jirachi are both decent checks as well as Starmie, and double Intimidate can save my ass in a pickle.
    [​IMG] Conkeldurr:
    • Bulk Up - Salamence switches in with ease and OHKOes with Draco Meteor. Starmie can beat it if it lacks Payback.
    • Flame Orb + 3 Attacks - Same as above.
    [​IMG] Darmanitan:
    • Choice Scarf / Band - Salamence is the best switch-in because of Intimidate, and Latias is pretty solid after that. The key is to Intimidate it.
    • Life Orb - Same as above.
    [​IMG] Deoxys-D:
    • Fast Spiker - I try to set up Rocks with Landorus-T, and U-turn to Starmie and try to spin. If I hit Gengar, I kill it and can spin later.
    [​IMG] Dragonite:
    • Dragon Dance - Landorus-T counters it. Ferrothorn can take boosted Outrages well.
    • Choice Band - Same as Dragon Dance.
    • Mixed - Can be kind of a bitch because I have no safe switch-in, but it has 4mss and I can revenge kill it with Salamence or Latias.
    • Parashuffler - Landorus-T is still a boss, and Ferrothorn can use Leech Seed to make things tough.
    • Rain Abuse - Jirachi is pretty good against it, and hopefully I can paralyze it so that Salamence or Landorus-T can get in to kill it.
    [​IMG] Dugtrio:
    • Focus Sash - Tries to trap Jirachi, but I paralyze it every single time. It loses to literally everything else on my team too.
    • Choice Band - Same as above.
    [​IMG] Empoleon:
    • Agility - Ferrothorn is a pretty good check, and I'm sure that Latias can even take a +1 Ice Beam.
    • Choice Specs - Ferrothorn again is good, and Jirachi and Starmie can also deal some damage.
    [​IMG] Espeon:
    • Baton Pass - Yeah, I pretty much can't beat Baton Pass, because my mons don't hit hard enough except for Salamence, and I don't have any phazing moves (although they're useless against Espeon), Perish Song, or Haze.
    • Dual Screens - Can't stop it from getting up both screens, but Jirachi still easily takes it on. I also still have the mighty Brick Break.
    [​IMG] Garchomp:
    • Swords Dance - Landorus-T takes it on until it locks itself into Outrage, which is when I switch into Ferrothorn, and then Latias or Starmie kills it if Ferrothorn fails.
    • Choice Band - Same as above.
    • Choice Scarf - Same as above.
    [​IMG] Gengar:
    • Substitute + Disable / Pain Split - Jirachi beats it pretty easily. Starmie revenge kills it, and Landorus-T can take a hit.
    [​IMG] Gorebyss:
    • SmashPass - On the physical side, double Intimidate deters any receivers, and my bases are well-covered on the special side between Jirachi, Latias, and Ferrothorn.
    • Shell Smash Sweeper - Ferrothorn can live a hit and paralyze.
    [​IMG] Gothitelle:
    • Choice Scarf / Specs - I hate Shadow Tag. I really think its trapping is limited to Ferrothorn though.
    [​IMG] Gyarados:
    • Offensive / Bulky Dragon Dance - Ferrothorn beats it. Latias can also check it decently. As soon as I see Bounce though I'm going back to Ferrothorn, or maybe Starmie.
    • Choice Band - Same as above.
    • Choice Scarf - Same as above.
    [​IMG] Haxorus:
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band - Landorus-T is my first switch-in, and because it usually uses Outrage I'll switch in Ferrothorn next. Salamence and Latias can revenge kill it easily too if it's not Scarf.
    • Dragon Dance - Switch in Landorus-T, typically take an Outrage and retaliate, then switch in Ferrothorn, and switch back to Landorus-T if need be.
    • Swords Dance - Same as Choice.
    [​IMG] Heatran:
    • Choice Scarf / Specs - Latias beats it pretty easily, although it doesn't particularly like Dragon Pulse. Starmie is pretty reliable as well, but isn't as bulky and so I play it safe when it comes to offensive Heatran.
    • Air Balloon - Same as above.
    [​IMG] Hydreigon:
    • Mixed Attacker - Is pretty threatening in theory, but I always beat it in practice. I typically switch in Jirachi because it doesn't predict that often, but I'll try to play around with Jirachi and Latias before finding a good chance to kill it.
    • Choice Specs / Scarf - Jirachi is still my primary switch-in, but if it's Choiced it's a lot easier to play around.
    • Substitute - I don't believe it can 2HKO Jirachi without a Life Orb if I Protect stall it, so it's a pretty good switch-in. Landorus-T can live a hit and U-turn out to Latias too.
    • Expert Belt - Pretty much the mixed attacker on steroids. I can picture myself easily losing a mon to this thing. Hydreigon as a whole is uncounterable though, so it's really gonna give any stall-based team trouble.
    [​IMG] Infernape:
    • Choice Band / Choice Scarf - Salamence has Intimidate and resists both its STABs, Landorus-T also has Intimidate, and Starmie and Latias are also decent switch-ins but don't like U-turn.
    • Mixed Attacker - Starmie and Latias are both safe switch-ins.
    • Nasty Plot / Swords Dance booster - Same as mixed attacker.
    [​IMG] Jirachi:
    • Substitute + Calm Mind / Substitute + 3 Attacks - Landorus-T is generally a good counter to these sets. I can also maybe paralyze it with Latias if I'm lucky, and Leech Seed it with Ferrothorn after it's paralyzed.
    • Wish + Calm Mind - Landorus-T is still a solid switch-in but this set is easier to wear down than SubCM with residual damage before I can kill it.
    • Expert Belt - Jirachi is a pretty good switch-in, and Latias can also be good and paralyze it.
    • Choice Scarf - Jirachi is my first switch-in, although it could burn. It's pretty easy to play around because it's not too strong.
    [​IMG] Keldeo:
    • Choice Scarf / Specs - Latias is a hard counter, and if it's Choiced I can pivot in Landorus-T or Ferrothorn to take an attack. Starmie can also live a hit and deal significant damage back. Jirachi can also take a single hit and hopefully paralyze it.
    • Calm Mind - Latias paralyzes and usually beats it, but if need be Starmie can bypass its boosts with Psyshock.
    [​IMG] Kingdra:
    • Choice Specs - Ferrothorn and Jirachi are both pretty good checks.
    • Rain Dance - Same as above.
    • Dragon Dance - Same as above.
    [​IMG] Kyurem:
    • Choice - Easy to predict around, but my first choice to fight it is Jirachi. Salamence can revenge kill and Latias can too from lower health.
    • Substitute + 3 Attacks - Same as above.
    • Substitute + Roost - Same as above.
    [​IMG] Kyurem-B:
    • Substitute - Jirachi beats it, and Salamence and Latias can revenge kill it.
    • Substitute + Dragon Tail - Same as above.
    • Choice Band - Ferrothorn is a pretty good switch-in, and Landorus-T can come in and take a hit with Intimidate. Jirachi can also paraflinch.
    • Mixed - Same as Substitute.
    • Choice Scarf - Jirachi is a solid counter, and Landorus-T and Ferrothorn are both good checks.
    [​IMG] Landorus:
    • Rock Polish / Swords Dance - Landorus-T is good as long as it avoids HP Ice, and Ferrothorn and Latias are okay checks.
    • Special Attacker - Latias counters it, and Starmie can usually take a single Earth Power.
    • Choice Scarf - Latias takes most of its attacks nicely, and Landorus-T only fears HP Ice.
    • Substitute + 3 Attacks - Same as Choice Scarf.
    [​IMG] Landorus-T:
    • Stealth Rock - Latias and Starmie can force it out, and the latter can spin away its Rocks. I only need a little residual damage before Salamence OHKOes with Draco Meteor.
    • Swords Dance / Rock Polish - Same as above, but Landorus-T can force it into a stalemate I guess if it lacks HP Ice, and Salamence doesn't need any residual damage.
    • Substitute + 3 Attacks - Same as SD.
    • Gravity - Same as SD.
    • Choice Scarf - Easy to predict around, and I have a bunch of resistances for all of its moves.
    [​IMG] Latias:
    • Life Orb - Jirachi beats it easily.
    • Choice Specs / Scarf - Same as above, although I don't like getting Tricked.
    • Calm Mind - Same as Life Orb, although bulkier versions that can keep a Substitute intact against Jirachi are troublesome, I have to U-turn out to Salamence if it doesn't have enough boosts, or paralyze it with Latias so that Jirachi can still flinch it.
    [​IMG] Latios:
    • Life Orb / Expert Belt - Jirachi beats it, and Ferrothorn beats it as long as it lacks HP Fire.
    • Choice Scarf / Specs - Same as above, but Jirachi and Ferrothorn don't like getting Tricked.
    • Calm Mind - Same as Life Orb.
    [​IMG] Lucario:
    • Swords Dance - Salamence counters all of them except Jolly variants, and Latias and Starmie beat it if it lacks Crunch.
    [​IMG] Magnezone:
    • Substitute - This set can be kind of a bitch because it can take out both Ferrothorn and Jirachi. Jirachi is much more important, so if I have to let one of them die it's usually Ferrothorn. That being said, I use Landorus-T more to counter Dragons, and Latias as well. Landorus-T, Latias, and Salamence kill it without too much trouble.
    • Choice Scarf / Specs - Not as threatening as Substitute because Jirachi usually paraflinches it to death. Can still be killed in the usual ways.
    [​IMG] Mamoswine:
    • Physical Attacker - I don't have a perfectly safe switch-in, but Starmie comes close. I usually let Latias take an Ice Shard and kill it with Surf. Ferrothorn can take a hit.
    • Focus Sash + Endeavor - Not as threatening as the previous set, I can switch in with Starmie easily, spin away its Rocks to break its Sash, and Scald for the win.
    [​IMG] Meloetta:
    • Relic Song Mixed Attacker - Jirachi is the best switch-in, and Latias is also very solid.
    • Calm Mind + 3 Attacks / Substitute - Same as above.
    [​IMG] Metagross:
    • Stealth Rock - Starmie can spin away its Rocks and beat it, and Landorus-T and Salamence can deal heavy damage, but don't like Ice Punch. Ferrothorn only fears Hammer Arm.
    • Choice Scarf / Band - Same as above, except that Starmie fears ThunderPunch
    • Agility - Same as above.
    [​IMG] Mew:
    • Stealth Rock - Landorus-T beats it every time in the lead matchup.
    • Baton Pass - See Gorebyss's SmashPass set, because it's pretty similar.
    • Nasty Plot - It needs a Fire move to beat Jirachi, and needs Shadow Ball to beat Latias. Synchronize is kinda mean though.
    [​IMG] Mienshao:
    • All-Out Attacker - Latias counters it, and Starmie is also a good check.
    • Choice Scarf / Band - Same as above.
    [​IMG] Ninetales:
    • Special Attacker - Latias can switch into anything bar Hypnosis, which is mean. Starmie only doesn't like SolarBeam.
    [​IMG] Politoed:
    • Choice Specs / Scarf - Ferrothorn and Latias can both take its hits well. Starmie can take on non-Specs sometimes.
    • 3 Attacks - Same as above.
    [​IMG] Reuniclus:
    • Offensive Trick Room - Jirachi beats it easily, Landorus-T can do damage it it has Psyshock, Latias can take a hit.
    • Calm Mind - Same as above.
    [​IMG] Rotom-C:
    • Support - Latias is the best switch-in if it has Will-O-Wisp, and Landorus or Jirachi is best if it has Thunder Wave.
    • Choice Scarf / Specs - Latias and Jirachi are both fine checks.
    [​IMG] Rotom-W:
    • Support - Ferrothorn is my first switch-in, and Latias is also a hard counter.
    • Choice Scarf / Specs - Same as above, although Ferrothorn isn't a big fan of Trick and Latias can make more use of a Choice item.
    [​IMG] Salamence:
    • Dragon Dance - Landorus-T is a counter. If it uses Outrage, I switch to Ferrothorn. Latias can revenge kill it unboosted.
    • Mixed - Pretty threatening, because ironically the set that I used destroys me. Jirachi can take one hit, but I usually need to revenge kill it with Latias.
    • Choice Scarf / Band - Landorus-T wins every time, but this set is so weak and so easy to play around so that I'll have plenty of good resistances/immunities to whatever it uses.
    [​IMG] Scizor:
    • Choice Band - Salamence and Landorus-T both counter it.
    • Swords Dance - Same as above.
    • Bulky Swords Dance - Same as above, except Landorus-T needs to crit (Scizor is fighting a losing battle anyway) so Salamence is a bit more reliable.
    [​IMG] Scrafty:
    • Dragon Dance - Can be kinda threatening, I have double Intimidate to keep it in check but it can keep killing things to regain Attack. Jirachi is probably my best answer to it, or just hope it misses.
    • Bulk Up - Salamence can wear it down with Brick Breaks, and then go for the kill with Draco Meteor. In any case, I can always outstall it by switching between Salamence and Landorus-T n_n.
    [​IMG] Sharpedo:
    • Speed Boost - Ferrothorn is a counter, and Jirachi is a solid check.
    [​IMG] Smeargle:
    • Hazard Lead - Starmie can stay in to take sleep and wake up and spin.
    • Baton Pass - See Gorebyss's SmashPass set.
    [​IMG] Starmie:
    • Life Orb - Ferrothorn is the best switch in, but Latias and Jirachi are also solid switch-ins.
    • Choice Specs - Same as above, except easier to play around.
    [​IMG] Stoutland:
    • Choice Band - Landorus-T is a counter, and Ferrothorn is also good to resist its STAB.
    • Non Choice - Landorus-T is still amazing, Salamence becomes better against it, and Jirachi is much more solid a check than Ferrothorn.
    [​IMG] Terrakion:
    • Substitute + Swords Dance / Salac Berry - Landorus-T is a hard counter. Starmie revenge kills it if it hasn't gotten a boost, and can switch in on anything this set has. Latias and Jirachi are okay options against provided it's unboosted.
    • Choice Band / Choice Scarf- Same as above, except Starmie can't switch in on CB X-Scissor.
    • Double Dance - Same as Choice.
    [​IMG] Thundurus-T:
    • Nasty Plot - I'm probably losing a mon to this, most likely Latias or Starmie. Between the two of them, they can 2HKO it.
    • Agility - Not as threatening because it's not strong enough, and Latias and even Jirachi can take it on more easily.
    • Choice Scarf - Latias and Jirachi are both pretty good switch-ins.
    [​IMG] Tornadus:
    • Tailwind - Jirachi and Latias can beat this pretty easily.
    [​IMG] Tornadus-T:
    • Standard - Jirachi is a solid counter. Landorus-T and Latias can both take a hit and kill with Stone Edge/paralyze.
    • Choice Specs - Same as above.
    [​IMG] Toxicroak:
    • Swords Dance - Switch to Salamence on the Swords Dance, KO with Draco Meteor. Can also be revenged by Starmie at +1.
    • Bulk Up - Both Salamence and Landorus-T counter it, and Starmie can still revenge kill it at +1.
    • SubPunch - Switch to Starmie and break the Sub, then switch to Salamence or Landorus-T and kill it.
    [​IMG] Tyranitar:
    • Choice Band - Can do a lot of damage to my team by trapping Starmie and Latias, but I pretty much always double switch to Salamence if I fear the switch to Tyranitar. Brick Break takes it out, Jirachi can Iron Head flinch it to death, and Landorus-T is a very solid counter.
    • Choice Scarf - Same as above, but is faster than Latias, Starmie, and Salamence. Landorus-T and Jirachi are still counters, but this set is a lot more efficient at trapping. If I know that it's Scarf though, I can always paralyze it with Latias.
    • MixTar - Jirachi is a counter, and Salamence still kills it. Landorus-T only fears Ice Beam.
    [​IMG] Venusaur:
    • Growth - Latias is my best answer to it, because it gets burned by Ninetales literally every single time I face sun. I can then paralyze it and kill it. Jirachi is the next best option, and hopefully Ferrothorn gets slept because it's almost worthless against sun. Starmie and Salamence can revenge kill it once it's paralyzed.
    [​IMG] Victini:
    • Choice Band / Scarf - Salamence is my initial switch-in, then I go to Latias. I generally get a lot of hazards up as soon as possible.
    • Special Attacker - Latias can do work, and so can Salamence.
    [​IMG] Virizion:
    • Calm Mind - Jirachi checks it, and Starmie revenge kills it. Latias can also do some work.
    • Swords Dance - Latias is a solid counter, and Starmie still revenge kills it.
    [​IMG] Volcarona:
    • Offensive Quiver Dance - Probably the biggest threat to the team. I set up Stealth Rock as soon as possible. If it has HP Rock, I'm screwed, because otherwise Salamence can take a hit if Rocks aren't up. Other than that, it literally sweeps my entire team. If it tries to set up on something, I try to paralyze it before it's too late.
    • Bulky Quiver Dance / Roost - Landorus is a counter, and Salamence has a chance to OHKO a +1 Volcarona after Stealth Rock. However, if it gets more than two boosts, I lose.
    • Chesto Rest - Similar to previous sets. I need to have Rocks up so Salamence can take a +1 Fire Blast and KO. Otherwise, I lose if it sets up.
    • Substitute - Still a threat, but Landorus-T and Salamence are more reliable switch-ins compared to other sets to compensate for the fact that only Latias can paralyze it.

    Standard OU Defensive Threats

    [​IMG] Amoonguss:
    • Standard - I usually sacrifice Ferrothorn to Spore, and then Salamence, Latias, or Jirachi can beat it.
    [​IMG] Blissey:
    • Support - Depending on how much Defense investment it has, Starmie is the best switch-in to do damage with Psyshock. Ferrothorn is generally reliable except for the rare Flamethrower, and Jirachi paraflinches to death. Landorus-T and Salamence can both do heavy damage.
    [​IMG] Bronzong:
    • Tank - Starmie is a counter, and Ferrothorn also beats it. Salamence deals some damage but doesn't like HP Ice or Toxic.
    [​IMG] Celebi:
    • Physically Defensive - Landorus-T is good, and Salamence and Jirachi can both do a number on it as well.
    • Specially Defensive - Same as above.
    [​IMG] Chansey:
    • Support - Kinda like Blissey, but can't be killed by Starmie, and not as easily by Landorus-T or Salamence. Ferrothorn and Jirachi are still reliable though.
    [​IMG] Cloyster:
    • Utility - Ferrothorn forces it out and can easily beat it, Salamence obliterates it with Draco Meteor, and Starmie counters it and spins its hazards.
    [​IMG] Cresselia:
    • Support - Paraflinch it with Jirachi along with Leech Seed from Ferrothorn.
    • Calm Mind - Same as above.
    [​IMG] Empoleon:
    • Specially Defensive - Starmie can switch in and burn it, then slowly wear it down. Landorus-T and Salamence can both deal significant damage, and Ferrothorn just doesn't like getting burned but can set up on it.
    [​IMG] Espeon:
    • Calm Mind - Paraflinch it to death with Jirachi, or keep attacking it with Landorus-T.
    [​IMG] Ferrothorn:
    • Standard - Can be kind of a bitch in the rain, I need either Salamence or Landorus-T to take it out; if not, I'll have to get the burn on Starmie and stall out the burn with my own Ferrothorn.
    [​IMG] Forretress:
    • Physically Defensive - Can't really kill anything on the team, and Landorus-T and Ferrothorn can both set up their hazards against it.
    • Specially Defensive - Same as above.
    [​IMG] Gastrodon:
    • Tank - Ferrothorn is good but doesn't like burns, and even then Power Whip still does a ton. Otherwise, I'll just hit it hard.
    [​IMG] Gliscor:
    • Substitute + Protect - Starmie is the best switch-in to avoid status. Latias and Salamence can both beat it too, but don't like Toxic.
    • Britscor Stallbreaker - Same as above.
    • Swords Dance - Salamence is the best check to switch in on Swords Dance or Earthquake, and destroy Gliscor with Draco Meteor. Starmie and Latias also perform admirably.
    [​IMG] Gyarados:
    • Bulky Support - Starmie can switch in easily and hopefully Scald burn it, while Salamence and Latias also check it but don't like paralysis.
    • Resttalk - Ferrothorn is the best way of dealing with it, as it means free setup, but Starmie, Salamence, and Latias are also capable of defeating it.
    [​IMG] Heatran:
    • Specially Defensive - Starmie can spin away its Rocks and shrug off status, Latias doesn't like Toxic but can beat it otherwise, and Landorus-T and Salamence just don't like burns. Note that this is significantly harder to kill in the sun.
    [​IMG] Hippowdon:
    • Physical Tank - Dies to Salamence after a little residual damage, and both Latias and Starmie beat it no problem.
    • Specially Defensive - Kind of a bitch because it can take Draco Meteors no problem and heal, and doesn't take as much from Latias and Starmie. I can usually kill it no problem, it just takes a while.
    [​IMG] Jellicent:
    • Utility Counter - Can be a bit tough because I can't really spin whenever I want to. I try to wear it down with residual damage, and hopefully Ferrothorn can avoid a burn and hit it with Power Whip. Otherwise I'll hit hard with Landorus-T and Salamence.
    [​IMG] Jirachi:
    • Specially Defensive - Ferrothorn is usually what I switch in first if it has Body Slam because I don't like Landorus-T paralyzed. If it has Thunder or Thunder Wave, then Landorus-T is a perfect switch-in. Ferrothorn can still beat it though, and Salamence or Starmie can do a good chunk of damage if need be.
    [​IMG] Latias:
    • Support - Landorus-T is probably my most solid answer, and Jirachi can always paraflinch it if it doesn't get paralyzed in the process. Once it's paralyzed, I can try to revenge kill it with Salamence and Latias too.
    • Reflect / Refresh + Calm Mind - As long as it gets paralyzed, I can beat it. Jirachi is still pretty solid as a counter.
    [​IMG] Mew:
    • Stallbreaker - Switch in Latias, let it burn me, then paralyze it. Then I'll probably switch in Starmie or Salamence and wear it down.
    [​IMG] Ninetales:
    • Specially Defensive - Starmie and Jirachi beat it easily, and Landorus-T just doesn't like Will-O-Wisp.
    [​IMG] Politoed:
    • Defensive - Ferrothorn is my first switch-in when I don't know the set, but if I see that it's defensive then Starmie beats it. Latias, Salamence, and Landorus-T can all do a good amount of damage.
    [​IMG] Porygon2:
    • Defensive - Jirachi and Ferrothorn beat it all day every day by wearing it down with paraflinch and Leech Seed. Discharge is kind of annoying though.
    [​IMG] Quagsire:
    • Physically Defensive - Ferrothorn is a great switch-in. Starmie avoids status and hopefully burns, and Salamence can usually lure it out and kill it with Draco Meteor.
    [​IMG]Rotom-H:
    • Support - Landorus-T only fears Will-O-Wisp, and Latias can perform admirably if that is the case. Salamence also fries it, and Starmie can force it out.
    • Choice Scarf - Latias is a solid counter, and Landorus-T and Salamence are okay checks.
    [​IMG] Rotom-W:
    • Support - Ferrothorn and Latias are both solid counters, although Ferrothorn dislikes burn much more than Latias.
    [​IMG] Sableye:
    • Prankster - Such a bitch. I typically try to burn it with Starmie, and lure it into Will-O-Wisping Salamence while I Draco Metoer it. Another option is to paralyze it and make the chances of it hitting Will-O-Wisp 50/50.
    [​IMG] Skarmory:
    • Physically Defensive - Salamence is a safe switch-in and KOes with Fire Blast. Starmie and Ferrothorn typically beat it one-on-one too.
    • Specially Defensive - Same as above.
    [​IMG] Slowbro:
    • Tank - I switch in Starmie because Slowbro has a lot of options that can mess with some of my other mons, and hopefully Scald burn it. Ferrothorn can take on any set without a Fire move, Latias can beat any set without status, and Salamence can do like 80% with Draco Meteor.
    [​IMG] Starmie:
    • Rapid Spin - Ferrothorn is again a counter, and Latias is also a counter.
    [​IMG] Tangrowth:
    • Defensive - Sleep is annoying, but I'll probably sac Ferrothorn. Salamence can easily KO it, and Latias also does a fine job of beating it.
    [​IMG] Tentacruel:
    • Substitute + Toxic - Starmie beats it guaranteed, and Ferrothorn can paralyze it so that Landorus-T can kill it, or just Power Whip if it avoids burn.
    • Protect - Same as above.
    [​IMG] Tyranitar:
    • Specially Defensive - Jirachi is a very solid switch-in. Landorus-T can deal a lot of damage, but fears Ice Beam. Salamence only needs a little residual damage to KO with Brick Break.
    [​IMG] Vaporeon:
    • Rest Hydration - It can't do anything to Starmie, but it's also really hard to kill so I just have to hit it hard with Salamence and Landorus-T. Ferrothorn can try to touch it if it doesn't get burned.
    • Wish Support - Same as above, except easier to kill because I can paralyze it to get hax.
    [​IMG] Venusaur:
    • SubSeed - Starmie is a good check if it doesn't have Giga Drain. Latias, Salamence, and Landorus-T can get rid of it as well, but don't like sleep as much.
    [​IMG] Wobbuffet:
    • Max Speed - If it comes in on Landorus-T, I can U-turn and sac Ferrothorn, or just keep using Stealth Rock. If it comes in on Jirachi, I can hopefully paraflinch it to death. If it comes in on Ferrothorn, I either lock myself into Leech Seed, Spikes, or Thunder Wave. If it comes in on Salamence, I can surprise it with Draco Meteor before Roosting and mixing things up. If it comes in on Starmie, hopefully I can burn it, or just keep using Rapid Spin or Recover. If it comes in on Latias, I can paralyze it and alternate between attacking and healing.
    • Bulky - Same as above, except harder to kill.
    [​IMG] Xatu:
    • Standard - Landorus-T is a completely safe switch-in, and can hit it with Stone Edge and then U-turn as it Roosts to something to force it out. JIrachi can also paraflinch it to death.


    Importable

    Code:
    Landorus-T (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk,-SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn
    
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 248 HP / 228 SDef / 32 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef,-SAtk)
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Body Slam
    - Iron Head
    
    Ferrothorn (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 248 HP / 88 Def / 172 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def,-SAtk)
    - Spikes
    - Leech Seed
    - Thunder Wave
    - Power Whip
    
    Salamence (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 100 Atk / 176 SAtk / 232 Spd
    Rash Nature (+SAtk,-SDef)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - Brick Break
    - Roost
    
    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 248 HP / 20 Def / 24 SAtk / 216 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd,-Atk)
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Rapid Spin
    - Scald
    - Recover
    - Psyshock
    
    Latias (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 44 SAtk / 24 SDef / 192 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd,-Atk)
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Surf
    - Thunder Wave
    - Roost
    This is probably the team that I'm proudest of in any metagame, and it's definitely the best that I've made in this metagame. Everywhere you hear that stall isn't viable. I hope I've cleared those notions, but note that while it is viable, it's really hard to pull off. Nevertheless, stall is a good chunk easier now than at the time that I made this team because of now-Ubers Genesect and Tornadus-T. This team has been the fruits of my progression on Smogon, because as you can see just underneath the title, I did reach #1 on the OU ladder at the end of this latest suspect test. I'm pretty excited for the next one. Speaking of the title, you may be wondering why I chose Savior. Many people believe that the BW2 metagame is awful, and I agree to an extent. However, I do think that the metagame will eventually sort itself out, and that we will eventually have a great metagame that will be remembered fondly. Two Pokemon that drew many complaints at the end of BW1 were Terrakion and Dragonite. While neither of them were officially suspected after suspect voting ended, some people were outspoken about wanting them gone. Enter Landorus-T, the best counter to Terrakion around, and a great way to defend against many BW2 buffs. Simply put, I believe that at the end of this generation when we have a good metagame, Landorus-T will be regarded as the savior of this metagame. It is not the savior the metagame needs, but it is the savior the metagame deserves.​
  2. ssbbm

    ssbbm

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,020
    This is an incredibly solid team.

    I think, though, that you're weaker to SD Scizor than you think: it 2HKOes Landorus-T and OHKOes Salamence with +1 Bullet Punch. Although you can obviously play around with double intimidate, I feel that if they can keep up SR then that hurts your physical backbone pretty badly.

    I recommend that you run FatMence over your current Salamence, as this makes your physical core *that* much stronger. If you do this, you obviously will be weaker to stall than you currently are - to remedy this, I recommend you run a more offensive Jirachi over your current Jirachi, specifically a four attack Jirachi. SpDef Jirachi is less important in the current metagame since Tornadus-T has been banned, and a fast Jirachi is just as fast as a fast Salamence.

    I believe this will check essentially all of the threats on your threatlist - Volcarona is countered by FatMence, while Mamoswine, Hydreigon, and MixMence are outsped by Jirachi.

    It is important to note, however, that changing your Jirachi will make your team slightly less specially stable and that threats such as Lati@s will become more dangerous.

    tl;dr MixMence -> FatMence; SpDef Jirachi -> 4 Attack Jirachi
  3. Leftiez

    Leftiez *Stars*

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Messages:
    983
    Hi there.
    It is a very solid and very effective team, I can't really rate because it seems very correct, but I see a weakness against Thundurus-T because after a Nasty Plot it may violate your team easily, Starmie does not kill with Scald and Latias does not kill him with Surf or Dragon pulse, and Jirachi is OHKO by Thunder after a Nasty Plot, (+ 2 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus - T Thunder vs. 252 HP / 224 + SpD Jirachi: 407-480 (100.74 - 118.81%) - guaranteed OHKO), Thundurus can disadvantaged you easily because you are forced to let die 2 or 3 pokemon to kill him, I suggest you Salamence in Choice Scarf, with this item Salamence can Outspeed Thundurus-T and kill him with Outrage or Stone edge, You can keep Fire Blast to 2HKO Skarmory/Ferrothorn/Forretress and then you can kill Volcarona easily.

    Then I suggest you to put Landorus-T in Impish Nature because with the Adamant nature it is 3HKO by Stone edge of Terrakion Bander after Intimidate (-1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 200 HP / 244 Def Landorus-T: 139-165 (37.66 - 45.40%) - guaranteed 3HKO) and Landorus-T is 2HKO by Outrage of Dragonite a + 1 because Dragonite has his ability (Multiscale) so you can't get the OHKO, Now you can come easily on Terrakion and Dragonite, and if Landorus dies you possess Salamence Scarf to continue.

    Salamence (open)
    Salamence (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Fire Blast
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge


    Tl;dr
    Show Hide
    Salamence--->Choice Scarf
    Landorus-T---> Timid Nature


    Hope I Helped and Good Luck with Your Team.

    ~Leftiez
  4. Lee

    Lee @ Thick Club
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    4,468
    if it aint broke don't fix it but if i had to say anything, i'd say i'm a bit put off by the lack of a clear-cut endgame or victory condition. as I was going through I was almost certain that Latias would be Calm Mind so I was shocked to see it wasn't. would seem a solid fit since CM Latias can give you a boosting option should the need arise but can still fulfill most of the defensive duties that your current set does, works particularly well with Spike support, and has decent offensive synergy with MixMence.

    i like the use of Landorus-T on this team, horribly underrated Pokemon
  5. Gimmick

    Gimmick Electric potential

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    166
    Hey complete legitimacy!

    This team is super solid, and actually pretty neat. However, I do see a couple major weaknesses that really trouble the defensive cores. Mamoswine is able to run over Salamence, Landorus-T, and Jirachi without much effort while easily getting past Latias and Ferrothorn with minimal to moderate prior damage. Starmie is the only thing keeping it from rampaging, but that's quite a lot of pressure for a Spinner who is vulnerable to Pursuit. Next, Volcarona (especially in the Sun) needs just one Quiver Dance to OHKO everything except Salamence, who can only Draco Meteor back, which doesn't OHKO a +1 SDef Volc. Without a spinblocker to keep your hazards on the field, Volcarona can find itself coming in at convenient times (like against Starmie, for example).

    At first glance, Terrakion seems like a good way to deal with both, but it does not fit anywhere on the team. Kyurem-B, however, has the bulk, power, and stall-breaking ability to fit very nicely over Salamence. It doesn't have a weakness to ice, so that's one more Pokemon that Mamoswine has to worry about. Similarly, it has the awesome bulk and physical presence to threaten out (or kill) even +1 Volcarona. At first, I wanted to suggest the standard-ish Sub + 3 attacks set since it's similar to Salamence in the way that it easily breaks stall cores, but it can't really do much to Volcarona outside of Fusion Bolt. So, I feel like the Specially Defensive variant would work wonders here:
    Kyurem-B (open)
    [​IMG] @ Leftovers
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 248 HP / 68 Def / 164 SDef / 28 Spd
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Substitute
    - Dragon Tail
    - Ice Beam
    - Roost

    Credit to Bri for this set. It has enough investment in Def to live Specs Keldeo's Secret Sword (among others like Scizor's Bullet Punch). It's fast enough to outspeed 0 Spe Rotom-W to Sub before it Will-O-Wisps. And the rest was put into HP and SDef for maximum bulk against rain teams especially. This is still an excellent stallbreaker because of its ability to set up Substitutes on just about anything seen on stall teams bar Ferrothorn. Dragon Tail is there obviously to abuse hazards and soften checks/counters. It also phases out Volcarona if it manages to come in on your Starmie, which is really the only thing that it can get Quiver Dances on since it risks paralyzation from everything else. It can get off way powerful un-invested Dragon Tails on Mamoswine, eventually causing it to die to hazards and Life Orb. Ice Beam isn't weak either, and abuses Teravolt nicely by OHKOing Dragonite through Multiscale. I feel like you have fighting types covered thouroughly with the combination of Landorus-T and Latias, so adding a fighting weakness won't be too much of a problem. It doesn't just break stall, though. It has power behind its attacks. Overall, the massive Subs, nice set of resistances, and phasing power of this thing are just absolute nightmares to stall teams. It also abuses the Thunder Wave support against offensive teams with SubRoost.

    Actually, now that I look at it, I see a pretty big problem to opposing Kyurem-Bs as well. The Substitute + 3 attacks variant (Earth Power|Ice Beam|Fusion Bolt) deals SE damage to every Pokemon except Ferrothorn, who can't touch it back. Jirachi can take 2 Earth Powers from max HP, but this game is unpredictable and it may not be totally healthy. Since you have 2 other Pokemon with para support, consider replacing Thunder Wave on Ferrothorn for Gyro Ball. Jirachi is also a steel type with para support, so it can also perform Ferrothorn's role. Obviously, you're the one that knows the team best, and it may just seem like a paper weakness, so correct me if I'm wrong. I personally use Thunder Wave on Ferrothorn a ton, especially against Gengar, Dragonite, and Lati@s, but all of those are also vulnerable to Gyro Ball (and Jirachi).

    Aside than that, the team looks really awesome! Great job! Good luck with it!~
    Luvdisc'd.

    Summary of Changes

    • [​IMG]
      • replace with Substitute [​IMG] (please read explanation in rate body)
      • Set:
        Show Hide
        [​IMG] @ Leftovers
        Trait: Teravolt
        EVs: 248 HP / 68 Def / 164 SDef / 28 Spd
        Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
        - Substitute
        - Dragon Tail
        - Ice Beam
        - Roost
    • [​IMG]
      • replace Thunder Wave with Gyro Ball
  6. Frog

    Frog

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    94
    Hilariously enough, you are weak to your own salamence. :(
    This team is really solid though, besides the rare mixmence you will not appreciate sun teams very much as your first three pokemon are all sort of dead weight against them, you will have to rely on latias and salamece to beat sun almost alone. Landorus can take on random physical attackers if they are not fire types like darmanitan and victini. I would suggest an even more bulky spread if possible. You might also struggle with standard CB tar keldeo/conkeldurr teams as he can trap latias and starmie with ease. I think there is probably a better niche pokemon over salamence, I would probably try choice band dragonite.
  7. complete legitimacy

    complete legitimacy Honko's Happy Funtime With Men
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,089
    Actually, if I keep Rocks off the field (which can easily be done thanks to Starmie), Salamence can survive a +1 LO Bullet Punch and Life Orb damage almost all of the time. Landorus-T deals around 60% with Earthquake, and I can then switch in Ferrothorn and have it take a Bullet Punch to get some extra damage on Scizor, before switching out again to take the obvious Superpower. That being said, I am a fan of FatMence, and I'll certainly give it a try in the team. I don't like your suggestion of 4 attack Jirachi as much, but I'll try it anyway. Thanks for the rate.

    Yeah, I most certainly am weak to NP Thundurus-T. That being said, I'm not really a fan of ScarfMence because it's really weak and easily revenge killed. I would also have to switch Intimidate for Moxie, which I don't think I can do because I need Intimidate. Using ScarfMence is almost like sacrificing it so that the rest of the team can deal with one more threat; I can't really afford to lose any of my mons. That being said, I'm not sure if I will use that exact spread on Landorus-T, but I will definitely experiment more to see what works for me. I appreciate the rate, thanks.

    My win condition is to wear down the opposing team through hazards and status, and clean up with Salamence, Latias, Landorus-T, or even Jirachi. That being said, I do like your suggestion a lot, and I will certainly test it. Using Calm Mind on Latias is actually really great because it allows it to beat NP Thundurus-T, provided Stealth Rock is up on my opponent's side of the field. I can switch in on the NP, use Calm Mind so that Latias can live an HP Ice, and then at +1 Dragon Pulse (or Surf in the rain) kills Thundurus-T after Stealth Rock and Life Orb. Thunder Wave isn't as important as it once was either, because the two things that I needed it most for (Genesect and Tornadus-T) are both banned now. So yeah, I can easily see this being an improvement. Thanks for the rate.

    Kyurem-B sounds interesting. I'll give it a try, although it does make me a good deal weaker to Breloom. That being said, a phazer can also help me against Baton Pass teams. I also think that it could also beat common stall cores such as SkarmBliss, and can Ice Beam Gliscor. I don't really like your next change as much, because Kyurem-B is pretty unpredictable as it is and it can easily carry HP Fire. I also need Thunder Wave on Ferrothorn because people seem to underestimate how important paralysis support is for thsi team to function. Thanks for the rate though, I appreciate it.

    Yeah, MixMence has no counters so what are you gonna do. Sun teams can be tricky, but I assure you that Jirachi isn't dead weight against Grass-type sweepers, specifically Venusaur. I'm also still experimenting with Landorus-T's spread. The thing about dropping Salamence though is that it's literally the reason I don't get destroyed by CB Tar teams because Salamence lures it in like a champ and KOes it, but Dragonite just gets Multiscale broken for literally no reason. Still, thanks for the rate.
  8. Jirachee

    Jirachee Nightfall
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,515
    Hello!

    I really like this team. There are a couple of things I'd change about it though, as I feel there are issues with it. First of all, while hazards are probably your biggest win condition, it's pretty easy for Starmie and Tentacruel to spin against your team. While you can certainly force them out, your Pokemon that can do that (Ferrothorn etc.) really hate Scald burns and they can spin anyway while you're switching in. Starmie doesn't really mind your Latias or your Jirachi either as it doesn't care about paralysis at all, thanks to Natural Cure. Latias doesn't have Psyshock so you can't do much to Tentacruel anyway. Secondly, I feel like Salamence is kinda... out of place on this team. Sure, it beats walls easily and it's a pain to switch into, but you don't have a anything that really benefits of it, like a DD Dragonite or something that will sweep once the opponnent's Steels are dead. There are a lot more ways to beat stall than with brute force in my opinion. I suggest you change your Salamence for a Jellicent. Jellicent gives you a spinblocker, which means it will be a lot more difficult for the opponent to spin away your precious win condition. SpD Jellicent does fine against most Starmie anyway, since the only thing that can really beat it is Specs Starmie with Thunder, which means it's locked into Thunder anyway. Jellicent is also very effective against opposiong Stall as it can break it with Taunt+WoW, as well as blocking their own spinner, and Stall tends to lose to hazards pretty quickly anyway.

    Definetly run a -Spe nature on Ferrothorn, even when not using Gyro Ball. The main reason for this is that you want Ferrothorn to always move after the opponent's Forretress, which allows you to set up Spikes as it desperately tries to Rapid Spin them away, while also killing itself on Iron Barbs. That way, it's pretty much impossible for Forretress to spin away your Spikes while you set them up. It's not like Ferrothorn was going to outspeed anything anyway.

    Consider moving the 32 Speed EVs on Jirachi to either Defense or Special Defense. No one ever runs Jolly Tyranitar without a Choice Scarf anyway, so the only thing you're achieving with this is... tying with other 244 Speed Pokemon. Additional physical bulk is always helpful in my opinion, as with the Def investment, Jirachi will never get 2HKOed by CB Haxorus' Outrage, which is nice. (not that people ever use Haxorus anymore though.)

    That's pretty much it, I really like this team actually! Here's the set you should use:
    Jellicent (open)

    [​IMG]
    Jellicent @ Leftovers
    Water Absorb
    Calm
    EVs: 248 HP / 216 SpD / 44 Spe
    ~Shadow Ball
    ~Will-O-Wisp
    ~Recover
    ~Taunt


    Good luck!
  9. FallenFoliage

    FallenFoliage

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2007
    Messages:
    38
    First off, awesome RMT!

    (I wrote something longer but got busy and lost it)
    I shall say however, that I admire your usage of MixMence despite some saying its inviable.
    I use a very similar, weird one, and know of its power!

    I totally agree on changing Rachi, or considering Jellicent over her.
    I can see it killing time and allowing switches by attracting EQs and such, but with Tornadus gone Jellicent will be forcing more switches and SpinBlocking simultaneously; which is crucial for stall. You know the team better, obviously, but through the read I've concluded that Jirachi isn't covering much that your team doesn't already have pinned against the wall. With that said, awesome job!

    Luvdisc'd.
  10. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,287
    Lovely team and lovely presentation, congrats c_l!!!

    So far i like the Kyu-B and the Jellicent suggestions the best. I am not in the mood of giving a rate right now, so maybe i will drop by later to see if i can suggest something usefull. You are really weak to Mamoswine and Volcarona though, which is one of the reasons that both Toxic Jellicent and SpD Kyu-B all seem like great fits in place of Mence...

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