Scarf Salamence

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Seb125, Feb 3, 2013.

  1. Seb125

    Seb125

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2013
    Messages:
    45
    INTRODUCTION
    This team was made when I noticed the potential of Salamence with a Choice Scarf. I was experimenting with other tiers, specifically UU in which I tried a Scarf Heracross who was a monster with a few Moxie buffs. I wondered why Salamence couldn't do this same thing in OU tiers so I looked him up on Smogon and there he was, a ChoiceScarf Salamence set. I decided that I wanted to make a team revolving around this set. With a ChoiceScarf, along with Moxie Salamence became both a excellent revenge killer and a powerful late game sweeper who can become unstoppable after just a few buffs.

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    Salamence (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Spd / 4 SAtk / 252 Atk
    Naive Nature
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Crunch
    - Fire Blast
    This is the Salamence set I decide to use. A Naive Nature gives me maximum speed with a ChoiceScarf without lowering my Special Attack. Outrage is Salamence's strongest stab and used late game with a few Moxie buffs hits extremely hard. Earthquake provides a good coverage move hitting threats like Heatran and Jirachi super effectively. I experimented with Dragon Claw for the third slot but I didn't like its damage output and I almost always found Outrage of better use then Dragon Claw. I know I get locked in with Outrage which can be abused by bulky steal types but with good prediction this is not an issue. Instead I decided to add Crunch. Salamence likes to have entry hazards and Salamence hates Ice Beam. Therefore, Salamence naturally hates Starmie who can rapid spin away hazards and Ice Beam Salamence. Unless the Starmie has a ChoiceScarf as well, Salamence can hit Starmie with a super effective Crunch(unsure if its a OHKO). Salamence's final move is Fire Blast which is the main reason I run a Naive nature. Fire Blast gets through the annoying bulky steal types likes Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Skarmory who will otherwise wall Salamence.

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    Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam
    - Toxic
    - Recover
    Jellicent is my Special Wall of choice with Salamence. He can effectively rapid spin block and take ice beams aimed at Salamence all day. Scald burns and physically offensive threats and Ice Beam hits enemy Dragons who can also threaten Salamence. Toxic cripples walls and Recover heals off damage. Jellicents immunities to normal and fighting also come in handy. I run max special defence since I want Jellicent to take as many special hits as possible.

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    Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Whirlwind
    - Roost
    or
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    Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rapid Spin
    - Volt Switch
    I have experimented with both of these and I am unsure which is better to take the slot for my physical wall. Both can set up both spikes and stealth rock which Salamence wants to be able to sweep. Skarmory on one side can Whirlwind out substitute users which I hate as well was recover damage off with Roost. However Forretress can rapid spin away hazards which my Salamence hates. Forretress however has no recovery outside of leftovers. Both are good, but I dont know which is better.

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    Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Thunder
    - Flash Cannon
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Volt Switch
    Magnezone is here to get rid of the annoying steel types that pose a threat to Salamence. Scizor is a big one who is easily killed by Hidden Power Fire as is most other steel types. Volt Switch allows me to maintain momentum and with a scarf is easily executed. Thunder is to hit water types especially on rain teams which are so common. Lastly Flash Cannon is there as a secondary STAB for things that dont take much from Thunder and HP Fire.

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    Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Bullet Punch
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit
    - U-turn
    Scizor is too good of a Pokemon to leave out. However his main purpose here is to put a serious hurt on Terrakion who can stone edge Salamence for a what I think is a OHKO. He also serves to Pursuit lock Starmie who can threaten Salamences sweep. Apart from that priority Bullet Punch can severly damage anything that doesnt resist it as well as hitting Tyranitar super effectively opening the way for Salamence to sweep. Scizor can also clean up well if Salamence fails.

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    Conkeldurr (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Drain Punch
    - Mach Punch
    - Ice Punch
    - Bulk Up
    or
    [​IMG]
    Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Trick
    The last slot goes for one of these two. For Conkeldurr, I asked myself what does Salamence hate. Dragon types, Terrakion, and physical walls that are not countered by Magnezone such as Gliscor. Conkeldurr can almost counter all three of these. After a bulk up, most Dragons as well was Gliscor will fall to Ice Punch. Terrakion takes significant damage from Drain Punch or priority Mach Punch if Scizor fails to take him out. And overall Conkeldurr hurts many Pokemon further opening the way for Salamence to sweep. Rotom Wash on the other hand provides really good synergy with Scizor. Volt Swich keeps momentum, Hydro Pump provides a powerful stab that can also hit Terrakion hard, and HP Ice hits Dragons and Gliscors for super effective damage. Since I rarely find my self locking into TBolt, I decided to run Trick in cases where I can cripple set up sweepers and walls.

    CONCLUSION
    Salamence has always been a favorite of mine since Gen III and I think This team has reached a pretty good balance. However, I am unsure if all of Salamneces threats are covered with this team and if there is room for improvement. Thanks for you advice in advance. I greatly appreciate the help. :)
  2. Sacaen

    Sacaen

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2012
    Messages:
    87
    You have a somewhat similar team to my VoltTurn team that uses Scarfmence as my clean up/sweeper. He's really quite deadly with VoltTurn and a bit of trapping because once Sallys checks are gone/weakened, which are typically limited to 2-3 at most on any given team, there's pretty much nothing that will stop him from cleaning up the rest of the team. With that said, I would definitely use Rotom-W over Conkeldurr to form a voltturn core with your Scizor. Scizor and Rotom-W are bread and butter together.

    I would also use Skarmory over Forretress, as while Salamence is weak to SR, it's nothing severely crippling, provided you are bringing him in only 1-2 times per match (which is really all you need to, as he should really only be coming in when threats are cleared, to revenge, or to lure and kill a Steel with fireblast/EQ. While Skarmory offers alot more to your team in actually being a physical wall that can do more than just take hits and set/remove hazards. I am quite biased in this matter though, as I think Forretress is just highly outclassed at this point. YMMV

    First off I'd put Dragon Claw on Salamence over Crunch. He really likes to have a stab option that doesnt turn him into ice shard fodder. Crunch also naturally means you will probably end up be needing to switch Sally in more (if you mispredict or after the kill), Salamence really wants to switch as little as possible. You mentioned Starmie as a reason to run Crunch, here are some calcs for you:
    (vs 252 hp/252 spe starmie):
    Outrage: 71.29 - 84.25%
    Dragon Claw: 47.53 - 56.48%
    Crunch: 63.58 - 75.3%
    +1 Outrage: 106.79 - 125.92%
    +1 Dragon Claw: 71.29 - 84.25%
    +1 Crunch: 95.06 - 112.34%
    (vs 0hp/4 def/252 spe starmie):
    Outrage: 88.5 - 104.59%
    Dragon Claw: 59 - 70.11%
    Crunch: 78.92 - 93.48%
    +1 Outrage: 132.56 - 156.32%
    +1 Dragon Claw: 88.5 - 104.59%
    +1 Crunch: 118 - 139.46%

    Crunch isn't worth it, and it will get Salamence forced out more often.

    I'd question your overall team composition, as I feel like you have a very defensive team team which feels odd for a team centered around Salamence. However I don't want to say anything along the lines of changing all your mons around to other mons.

    Honestly one of the best things to go with Salamence is often another Dragon since it can be quite difficult to stop 2 dragon sweeps (one weakening/removing the other's checks so that the 2nd can come in and sweep).

    Gothitelle is also, imo, a better trapper than magnezone as it can trap and cripple a much wider variety of threats not just limited to steel types (and it can still destroy alot of common steel types like Ferrothorn, Forretress, Scizor, and Skarmory with HP-Fire or Thunderbolt, and cripple alot of the non steel walls (such as Gliscor) that Salamence can hate with a timely Trick (trap tricking is very powerful, as you're guaranteed to get your tricked item on the right mon). Common Bulky waters are also destroyed by Gothitelle such as Tentacruel, Vaporeon, Slowbro, Jellicent, and non-choiced Politoed. The one big thing that Gothitelle misses out on is Jirachi, as Jirachi can shrug off hp fire, and can get by even with a trick'd choice specs. So keep that in mind.

    Nice team though. It would be nice if you could sport a replay or two to see it in action. That would really help give some better feedback.
  3. Seb125

    Seb125

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2013
    Messages:
    45
    Thanks for the advice, Ill definately change Crunch back to Dragon Claw then, and Ill give the other suggestions a try, Im kinda busy at the moment so I wont be able to post any videos(Showdown Videos that is) but thanks for the advice.
  4. MCBarrett

    MCBarrett i love it when you call me big hoppa
    is an official Team Rater
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2012
    Messages:
    546
    Hey seb125, nice scarfmence team you have here. It's pretty well balanced but hopefully I'll be able to help you out with some ev spreads/ movesets and some team member decisions.

    First I'll start with recommending forretress over skarmory although forretress can be dead weight at times salamence really appreciates a spinner on his side and forretress is about as good as you're gonna get. Also, to make forretress more of a presence, I would recommend gyro ball over spikes so it can do some extra damage to things locked into outrage, or sweepers such as scarf terrakion. You would be putting out more damage than spikes and it isn't something that can be taken off the field so it is definitely more reliable. To maximize damage output use a relaxed nature with 0 speed iv's.

    Next, I would keep conkeldurr over rotom-w. Gliscor would only become more of a problem with 3 scarfers and conkeldurr can take out some opposing dragons, steel types, and walls such as Gliscor and landorus-t.

    My last suggestion is pretty minor but will help a ton. I would run taunt over ice beam on jellicent as it allows you to take on opposing stall much better. Also, I would take 84 Ev's out of your special defense and put it into speed. This allows jellicent to outspeed base 70's with no speed investment such as politoed and skarmory that could otherwise cripple jellicent with toxic or set up hazards. Ice beam may seem great but you now have ferrothorn's gyro ball and conk's ice punch to deal damage to those dragon types. Plus things like Dragonite can't set up as easily as before.

    Hope I helped and good luck with the team!

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