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Scary Monsters, No Nice Sprites (Rain Offense, Peaked 1990 on PS)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Steeljackal<3, Aug 9, 2013.

  1. Steeljackal<3

    Steeljackal<3

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    431
    So, I'm back after my first fail at an RMT (Well, it wasn't exactly a fail, but the team had [still unresolved] issues) to present you guys with a team that I've had some pretty major success with on the ladder. While it looks fairly noobish on the outside, closer inspection reveals that it's quite dangerous. Several people underestimate its potential on the ladder, and pay dearly for it. So, without further ado, I present my most successful Ubers team thus far!

    Overview:
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    Kyogre @Lum Berry
    236 HP/252 Sp. Atk/20 Spe, Modest
    Thunder Wave/Hydro Pump/Ice Beam/Thunder
    Nickname: Ⓐ▼▲ Ⓐ▼▲

    Here we have the standard Thunder Wave Kyogre, speedcreeping to outspeed speedcreeping base 90s. It was chosen over, say, Scarfogre or Specsogre due to the presence of 2 other choice users on this team, and the fact that it's a massive surprise to Kyogre/Latias/Grassceus that try to switch in on you. It's great at creating setup opportunities with Thunder Wave, or outright maiming stuff with its BoltBeam+Hydro Pump coverage. Additionally, Lum Berry lets you act as a failsafe status absorber against all sorts of troubling stuff (I.E. smashpass and Darkrai).


    [​IMG]

    Genesect @Choice Scarf
    252 Atk/252 Spe/4 Sp. Atk, Lonely
    U-turn/Ice Beam/Iron Head/Explosion
    Nickname: Scizor

    Genesect is the premier lead and revenge killer of many offensive and balanced Ubers teams. Its movepool is relatively self-explanatory: U-turn OHKOs Mewtwo and Darkrai, while doing around 80-85% to 48HP/0 Def Latias, Ice Beam stops Rayquaza right in its tracks while also doing a hefty amount of damage to physically defensive Giratina and Groudon, and Iron Head is reliable STAB that's used almost exclusively for Kyurem-W. Explosion is nice for when you want to go out with a bang, dealing around 95% to standard Arceus (assuming an Attack boost from Download), while also flat-out OHKOing some Ho-oh and Kyogre variants. In addition, it nicely disrupts the opponent's synergy and lets you easily grab momentum, which is a must for this team. A Lonely nature is chosen over Naive or somesuch to give Genesect's U-turns more power at the loss of not outspeeding +1 positive-natured Dragon Dance Rayquaza, but this is relatively minor when you consider the fact that you're running it alongside Timid Scarfkia, which easily OHKOs any 'Quaza variant with Spacial Rend.


    [​IMG]

    Palkia @Choice Scarf
    252 Sp. Atk/252 Spe/4 Sp. Def, Timid
    Spacial Rend/Hydro Pump/Fire Blast/Thunder
    Nickname: Hi Kyogre!

    While 2 scarfers may seem mildly excessive and risky, they form the core of this team. When you're unsure of what to U-turn Genesect out to, Palkia is almost always a safe bet, as the two have fantastic synergy together. In addition, there's very little they can't KO together, and the few things that can survive a hit from both of them are destroyed by Kyogre. The set itself is simple and very effective: Spacial Rend is for Dragons, Hydro Pump is for obligatory Rain Abuse and lategame cleaning, Fire Blast nails Ferrothorn on the switch and hurts Groudon, and Thunder is for enemy Kyogres and that rage-inspiring "30%" Paralysis chance.


    [​IMG]

    Arceus-Ghost @spooky Plate
    252 Atk/252 Spe/4 HP, Jolly
    Swords Dance/Shadow Force/Brick Break/Recover
    Nickname: Arceus-Dark

    Arceus-Ghost is this team's main sweeper, possessing incredible power after a boost (which is quite easy to attain considering your 120/120/120 defenses). To put it in perspective, it OHKOs some Groudon variants with Shadow Force after a Swords Dance, and even 252HP/252Def+ Groudon loses its ability to tank hits afterward (it takes 63% at a minimum). In addition, it works as a great lure against Steel-Types, as Dialga and Ferrothorn take 50% from a +2 Shadow Force on the switch, knocking them down to the point where they can't live a Brick Break. On top of all of this, Ghostceus resists Extremespeed, the most common form of priority in the game, and is capable of functioning as an Extremekiller Arceus check because of this.

    Swords Dance powers up your attack, Shadow Force hits like a nuke at even +2, Brick Break hits whatever Shadow Force doesn't, and Recover provides.... recovery so you can set up easier. While this set is incredibly lethal due to the sheer amount of things in Ubers it can set up on, the surprise factor it has, and the raw power it possesses, there is one gaping disadvantage: Shadow Force can be PP stalled and just generally stopped by anything that resists Brick Break and can set up a substitute (mainly Ho-oh and Gliscor). Additionally, if the opponent has a Normal Type and a Ghost Type on their team and both are still alive, they can stall you out by switching around as you're forced to alternate between Shadow Force and Brick Break. But this is what Ghostceus has teammates for; both Gliscor and Ho-oh pose very little threat to this team, while a Normal/Ghost Type core falls apart when either the Normal or the Ghost Type falls. After that, it has no problems sweeping.


    [​IMG]

    Dialga @Leftovers
    252 HP/200 Sp. Def/56 Sp. Atk, Modest
    Stealth Rock/Dragon Pulse/Fire Blast/Roar
    Nickname: F*** Magnezone.

    This is the standard specially defensive Dialga: it checks pretty much anything that can't hit it super-effectively (and even some things that can) while also setting up Rocks and being annoying with Roar. I've honestly been on the fence for a while about what moves this thing should run: for a while, it had Draco Meteor/Stealth Rock/Fire Blast/Thunder Wave, but it was massive setup fodder after it used Draco Meteor, even considering that it had Thunder Wave. I swapped out Draco Meteor for Dragon Pulse so it could still do decent damage to Dragons, but I'm considering swapping it back to Draco Meteor and keeping Roar in place of Thunder Wave. This would allow Dialga to phaze the opposition around until it finds something it can slam with Draco Meteor, while still providing hazard abuse and hitting hard.


    [​IMG]

    Rayquaza @Life Orb
    252 Atk/252 Spe/4 Sp. Atk, Naughty
    Swords Dance/Extremespeed/Dragon Claw/Overheat
    Nickname: Skyscreamer

    Rayquaza, though it finds less setup opportunities than Arceus-Ghost (and is much less durable), is arguably more powerful than it and is better suited to completely mauling the common stall-based teams that are found higher on the ladder. After a Swords Dance, it literally has 3 commonly seen, viable checks in Ubers, and even those fall if they've taken too much prior damage. These checks are Scarf Terrakion, Scarf Genesect, and any fast support Arceus with will-o-wisp (that last one is relatively shaky due to will-o-wisp's disappointing accuracy).

    Like almost everything else on this team, its moveset is simple, efficient, and lethal. Swords Dance whenever you get a setup opportunity, and proceed to eat the metagame for breakfast. Extremespeed lets you function like a frailer, more powerful Extremekiller Arceus; you score OHKOs on Darkrai, Palkia, Shaymin-S, Zekrom, and Mewtwo (Stealth Rock is needed for that last one). Dragon Claw is for slower, bulkier things such as Giratina and Ho-oh. Overheat lets you hit anything physically defensive hard, and works nicely in tandem with Air Lock, ensuring that even with Rain your attack won't be weakened.

    Due to Rayquaza's frailty and its Life Orb Recoil adding up quickly, you should only bring it in once you're absolutely sure that it can sweep, as it won't get another opportunity. If it switches in with Stealth Rock up and uses a move, it's already lost a third of its health. This is even worse when you consider the fact that 9/10 times it'll have to take some damage before setting up, and it's quite incapable of single handedly destroying teams if it starts sweeping at 30%.

    Replays:
    Here are some replays recorded with my alts Jolly Genesect and Steeljackal. Keep in mind that they're pretty early and therefore showcase my team when it was still getting worked out (for example, you'll see Focus Blast Palkia in 1 or 2 of them :I).

    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers-42212833
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers-41218426
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers-41852977

    Exportable:

    Ⓐ▼▲ Ⓐ▼▲ (Kyogre) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 20 Spd / 236 HP
    Modest Nature
    - Thunder Wave
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thunder
    - Ice Beam

    Scizor (Genesect) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Download
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Spd / 4 SAtk / 252 Atk
    Lonely Nature
    - U-turn
    - Ice Beam
    - Iron Head
    - Explosion

    Hi Kyogre! (Palkia) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Spacial Rend
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thunder
    - Fire Blast

    Arceus-Dark (Arceus-Ghost) @ Spooky Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Shadow Force
    - Brick Break
    - Recover

    Skyscreamer (Rayquaza) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Air Lock
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SAtk
    Naughty Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Dragon Claw
    - Overheat
    - ExtremeSpeed

    F*** Magnezone. (Dialga) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 SAtk / 200 SDef
    Modest Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Fire Blast
    - Roar
    MKSLAYER97 and scotti like this.
  2. Blue Jay

    Blue Jay The notorious J Lube
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    May 20, 2013
    Messages:
    361
    Hi Steelskitty, cool HO team!

    Thunder Wave Kyogre is quite a cool Pokemon, but I'm unsure as to why you specifically chose it for this team. The teams that really appreciate Thunder Wave support are ones that use very powerful, slower Pokemon, such as Kyurem-W, Specs Kyogre, Ho-Oh, etc. In addition to Kyogre this team has 2 Scarf Pokemon, a fast sweeper, a priority user and a support tank; it does not exactly lack for speed on Pokemon where it matters. I believe a Specs Kyogre would serve well as it simply hits terrifyingly hard and the paralysis support seems largely unnecessary.

    2 Scarf Pokemon is rather excessive and mostly unnecessary. I can understand the appeal against offense, but it weakens you considerably against balance/stall teams, as Scarf Pokemon are relatively weak and vulnerable to entry hazards (as well as becoming useless Pokemon if paralyzed). They are also set up fodder for bulky sweepers such as Arceus formes. I recommend using Lustrous Orb Palkia with the same moveset instead, giving you a powerful attacker that threatens far more Pokemon simply by virtue of being able to switch moves (not to mention that the additional power on its STAB moves helps). And then Genesect should run a Naive nature, so as to reliably check all Rayquaza.

    I advise against using an Arceus-Ghost that can do literally nothing to a Giratina-O/Giratina + Arceus combination, which is not particularly rare in Ubers. This is, after all, your main sweeper. Really, I'm unsure as to why you went for this Arceus-Ghost set at all. Extremekiller Arceus is a far superior sweeper, despite lacking reliable recovery, and this set absolutely does not check Extremekiller Arceus:
    +2 +252 Atk Arceus Shadow Claw vs 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ghost: 71.2%-83.77% (272-320)
    252 Atk Arceus-Ghost Brick Break vs 88 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 33.25%-39.21% (134-158)
    And many Extremekiller Arceus forgo speed investment to run more HP investment (sometimes even up to 240 HP).
    This brings me to a crucial point about your team; it absolutely lacks any solid checks to Extremekiller Arceus. Genesect can avoid a OHKO, but even if it explodes it does not OHKO Arceus. Your Arceus can avoid a OHKO (unless the opponent is running a Life Orb variant or using Shadow Force) IF it is in pristine condition, but hardly does much damage back. The rest of the team is simply swept by it, so all the opponent needs is to slightly weaken your team and find a set up opportunity (which is unfairly easy with Extremekiller Arceus), and sweep.

    I recommend you use Extremekiller Arceus in the place of Arceus-Ghost, as it is a superior sweeper. In addition, I recommend Giratina-O in the place of Rayquaza, as Rayquaza rarely ever succeeds in sweeping against skilled players, and is more useful as a wallbreaker than a sweeper. Any set with Dragon Tail and significant investment in physical bulk should be able to check Extremekiller Arceus quite consistently.
    RiskVsRewardPlayer likes this.
  3. Steeljackal<3

    Steeljackal<3

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    431
    Thanks for the rate!

    Honestly, Extremekiller Arceus doesn't trouble this team nearly as much as you're describing; this team gets around it (and most other setup sweepers) by keeping insane offensive pressure on it; every Pokemon on the team has some roundabout way of hurting it or preventing it from setting up, whether it's Kyogre's Hydro Pump to knock it to the point where Brick Break from Ghostceus can KO, or Dialga's phazing, or Palkia's Hydro Pump, or even Rayquaza's Extremespeed to knock that last 30% off if it's max HP, no speed. If it does manage to set up, then I've made a horrible misplay and am probably screwed qq. So, while I lack a solid check to it, pretty much everything on the team has some way of dealing with it. For example, look at the third replay; at turn 5 I switch into Ghostceus as he Swords Dances, and then I hit the Extremekiller as it Shadow Claws. I hit it again with Brick Break, which knocks it down to the point where Genesect can KO with Explosion (I actually meant to go for U-turn, but....bleh, I misclicked).

    Also, I like the idea of using Giratina-O over Rayquaza, but I'm not exactly seeing how it's capable of checking Extremekiller Arceus. It lacks reliable recovery unless you want to use one of the Restalk variants (which are downright unreliable in my opinion, though the speed shuffler has its merits), and it can't even switch in on a boosted Shadow Claw and phaze Normalceus out the next turn, because it'll already be dead (+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Arceus-Normal Shadow Claw vs. 104 HP / 252 Def Giratina-O: 325-385 (69.59 - 82.44%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). It's doubly screwed if the Extremekiller has Shadow Force, which is starting to seem a lot more common than it used to be. However, I'll definitely test it, because Giratina's a lot more useful than Rayquaza.

    I've always kind of disliked Extremekiller Arceus; it suffers serious 4-moveslot-syndrome, it doesn't synergize well with really...anything, it's easy to play around, and there's too many checks to it lurking around the Ubers Meta. I chose Arceus-Ghost over a more conventional sweeper due to its surprise factor and extremely powerful STAB, though, like everything else, Extremekiller Arceus is testable.

    Thunder Wave+Lum Berry Kyogre is chosen over Specsogre for the purpose of acting like a failsafe status absorber (without it I have no other way of beating smashpass), and it also works nicely when you consider that the typical Kyogre switchins (Latias/Palkia/Arceus-Grass) are all severely crippled by Thunder Wave. Paralysis also creates many setup opportunities for things like Ghostceus and Rayquaza, while rendering scarfers useless. While bulkier, slower Pokemon may benefit from it more, this team still appreciates it.

    The two scarfers on this team give it an aura of uniqueness and an insane amount of offensive pressure. This team benefits more from Scarfkia than any other variant, as it allows me to give Genesect a +Attack nature to power up U-turns while also functioning as a backup revenge killer so this team doesn't collapse under opposing offensive pressure. I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I'll have to stick with Scarfkia.
  4. GRB1

    GRB1

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2012
    Messages:
    118
    Hey man, I think I may have played you lol. Pretty solid team but the Rayquaza set bugs me a bit. Why are you using swords dance over dragon dance? I can't think of too many pokemon who can come in on a +1 Dragon Claw and KO back with Ray at +1 Speed. By the way, I've decided to run brick break on Rayquaza after this post. I don't know why you took it off the set as after a Dragon Dance, a good deal of Rayquaza checks kick the bucket. Like I said, looks very solid to me.

    Good Luck!
  5. Volty

    Volty

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2012
    Messages:
    356
    Swords dance is a viable set, Its a very good lategame cleaner with extremespeed.
  6. superstar

    superstar

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Messages:
    320
    Hey dude, I like the team. The two scarfers is a bit excessive, but if it works for you that's fine! This is a ladder team and you don't see any stall on the ladder anyway. Ho-Oh is a MAJOR issue for you since it walls literally everything on the team bar Rayquazza, can outspeed and 2HKO Kyogre, etc. I disagree with Blue Jay, however, since Rayquazza's wall-breaking ability is absolutely essential against stall and defensive teams. Use V-Create instead of Overheat though! V-Create lets you hit as hard as a STAB Outrage without locking yourself in. The speed drop is unfortunate, but most things are faster than you anyway. I find myself using V-create much more than Dragon Claw on my SD Rayquazza, so definitely test it out!

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