1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Sceptile (3/3)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Heysup, Oct 9, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2008
    Messages:
    5,571
    [Overview]

    - Fast, strong, and not particularly frail.
    - Mono Grass-typing is pretty solid defensively.
    - Decent Special movepool
    - Great physical movepool
    - did i mention fast.

    [SET]
    name: Substitute + Leech Seed
    move 1: Leech Seed
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Giga Drain / Leaf Storm
    move 4: Focus Blast / Hidden Power Fire
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Overgrow
    nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    - Fast and forces switches, screams "SubSeeder"
    - Substitute then Leech Seed and substitute again and again until in KO range.
    - Giga Drain heals you back up when you KO something, but Leaf Storm can KO from a greater range causing you to not lose as much HP from Substitute - trade off.
    - Focus Blast lets you keep 372 Speed but is not too reliable for dealing with Ferroseed.
    - Hidden Power Fire lowers your Speed to 371, so you may as well keep it high enough to beat base 110s (350).


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    - Ferroseed trappers.
    - Spikes and Stealth Rock make your opponent live through hell.
    - Water-type lures.

    [SET]
    name: Special Sweeper
    move 1: Giga Drain
    move 2: Focus Blast
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Rock
    move 4: Leaf Storm / Synthesis
    item: Life Orb / Choice Specs
    ability: Overgrow
    nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    - Fast and powerful.
    - Decent longevity.
    - Bulky Water-types not too common, but counters most of them quite easily.
    - Giga Drain hurts and is a great sweeping move.
    - Focus Blast for Steel-types and hits Clefable pretty damn hard.
    - Leaf Storm hurts a lot. OHKOes everything "moderately" bulky that Giga Drain just can't do (Rotom, Hitmonlee, etc).
    - Synthesis for healing if you don't want to use Leaf Storm cause you're scurred of -2 SpA drop.
    - if you use HP Rock drop Speed until base 110s are outsped (also outpaces Adamant Swellow if that matters idk)
    - Choice Specs gives you a decent amount of power, and Sceptile actually needs to keep its HP high.
    - Life Orb is kinda better since you can switch / use Synthesis.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    - Bulky Water counter, feel free to use Entei, Moltres, and Rock-types etc.
    - Takes Earthquakes pretty well also.
    - Need to get rid of Moltres / use Stealth Rock / have a switch-in.
    - A good cleaner, wall breakers are needed to weaken munch, Ferro, clefable.


    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Leaf Blade
    move 3: Brick Break
    move 4: Acrobatics
    item: Flight Gem
    ability: Unburden
    nature: Adamant
    EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    - Unique sweeper, sets up and sweeps like most others but there is a catch.
    - One shot to sweep.
    - Step 1: remove powerful priority users
    - Step 2: Weaken excessively bulky Pokemon (Torkoal, Uxie, Ferroseed etc)
    - Step 3: SWEEEEEEP
    - Leaf Blade hurts, i guess.
    - Acrobatics + Flight Gem OHKOes Moltres at +2.
    - Brick Break hits Ferroseed and other Steels.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    - Spikes + SR close some KOes
    - Wall breakers

    [Other Options]

    - Mixed isn't strong enough either way.
    - HP rock...fuk IVs.
    - Modest...no notable KOes.

    [Checks and Counters]

    - Ferroseed - careful HP Fire + Focus Blast + Drain Punch from Swords Dance does 70%.
    - Clefable - Careful Swords Dance + Focus Blast.
    - Munchlax - Careful Swords Dance + Focus Blast.
    - Grass-types - Careful HP Ice and Acrobatics
    - Moltres / Fires......careful Stealth Rock.
  2. NatGeo

    NatGeo sun's coming up
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,428
    maybe earthquake in ac of swords dance to mess with torkoal / entei? crunch / uxie along those same lines.

    on that note, cb is an interesting option in OO, considering it's not too bad physically witha cb boost. something like leaf blade / quick attack / eq / drain punch, or something along those lines.

    nm else to say, you covered most of it.
  3. Omicron

    Omicron
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,042
    Drain Punch is a 4th gen move only... Replace it with Rock Slide / EQ

    maybe Quick Attack in OO? lol
  4. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2008
    Messages:
    5,571
    Tested it with Brick Break, thought i just forgot about Drain Punch. Nice catch.

    It's too weak for Choice Band.
  5. Mijzelffan

    Mijzelffan

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    56
    Since most people expect a flight gem on Swords Dance Sceptile and will likely switch to something resistant after Sceptile dances, maybe mention grass gem (and maybe fighting gem) in additional comments?
  6. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2008
    Messages:
    5,571
    That is likely the case but the Pokemon that Sceptile actually needs to beat rely on Flight Gem / Acrobatics being at 110 base power, so using another Gem is very unreliable. Either way, they won't switch to something that can't take a Grass-type attack and there are many 4x resists. Fighting Gem may never even be activated, similar problem but even more rare.

    Most people don't even think Sceptile is going to be SD in my experience.
  7. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent Yeah, well. The Dude abides
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,017
    heysup, i've had a lot of success with life orb on the SubSeeder, especially since giga drain helps heal you too. Mabye an AC mention?
  8. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    4,242
    Slash Earthquake and Rock Slide (as well as Overgrow, since Sceptile is fast as fuck anyway) on the Swords Dance set? EQ hits most Steels harder than Brick Break does (and is just strong in general), while Rock Slide still OHKOs Moltres.
  9. PrimeMinister

    PrimeMinister

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2011
    Messages:
    313
    No choice scarf set? I realize sceptile is very fast, but maybe something like this......
    Sceptile @choice scarf
    Leaf storm
    Giga drain
    Focus blast
    Dragonbreath/HP fire/HP ice
    Nature-modest or timid
    Evs 252spA/4spdef/252speed
    Ability- overgrow

    I know this is an odd set(and please, ease up on the insults, I'm a rookie) but I think it can work effectively. Choice scarf with maxed out evs and (depending on your choice of natures) with a timid nature give Sceptile ridiculous speed. Leaf storm and giga drain, powerful, giga drain used as recovery, blah blah blah. Focus blast, nice coverage, wrecks steels, blah blah blah. Now, this looks dumb, I know. Dragon breath, HP ice or HP fire. Yes, sceptile gets Dragonbreath. All of these three moves are just....for.....coverage.....I guess....? Anyway, please tell me your thoughts, but go easy on me.
  10. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,148
    Echoing what Shrang said. I kinda wanna see a mixed set but its not the end of the world if you don't include it.

    QC APPROVED (1/3)
  11. Molk

    Molk tfw zoroark
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RU Leader

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,295

    why not just run dragon pulse? sceptile gets that too.
  12. Omicron

    Omicron
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,042
    Choice Scarf is terrible on a Pokemon with such high Speed already. Sceptile needs the power boost to its average Special Attack given by Life Orb / Choice Specs. Also, Dragon Pulse is useless, Hidden Power Ice hits Altaria harder. Usually the course of action is to never use a Dragon-type move on a Pokemon that doesn't get STAB on it (good neutral coverage =/= super effective coverage).
  13. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2008
    Messages:
    5,571
    I didn't really want to include those because it has no place in this specific metagame. Earthquake is practically useless unless your aiming for Torkoal - Steelix is still 2HKOed by both Brick Break and Earthquake, but most importantly you now have something to hit Ferroseed with.

    I'll mention it set comments, but I don't know why any one would use that set over this one in this metagame.

    Mixed set didn't work out for me, I can keep testing and work on including the "best possible" mixtile set if you like.
  14. Fried Rhys

    Fried Rhys

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2009
    Messages:
    532
    I find a mixed set weak and underwhelming in general. It gets a no from me.

    QC APPROVED (2/3)
  15. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2008
    Messages:
    5,571
    One more QC check then I'll write it up.
  16. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,240
  17. Theorymon

    Theorymon AHHHH REAL GOOMBAS!
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,311
    Okay so apparently, Komodo is taking this over since Heysup asked him to ask a mod... so locking!
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)