Sceptile (BW2 Revamp) [QC: 0/3]

#1
MUST READ
no one has created an analysis and sceptile shouldnt deserve a analysis so this is the new analysis in replace, hello, kyurem-b, skeleton in progress


[OVERVIEW]

  • high speed and decent special attack
  • checks common threats like Rotom-W, Terrakion, Keldeo, Vaporeon, Politoed, and Jellicent with STAB Leaf Storm
  • one of the best subseed users in the metagame
  • sadly is a rather underwhelming threat with 105 SAtk
  • low defenses make it vulnerable to priority
  • 85 Atk make Swords Dance a weak set even w/ the set-up
  • no special boosting moves
  • overgrow will still be pretty bad due to leaf storm having a special attack drop
  • despite these flaws, decent cleaner especially with the power provided by life orb
  • decent subseeder
-​
[SET]
name: Cleaner
move 1: Giga Drain / Leaf Storm
move 2: Focus Blast
move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Rock / Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Dragon Pulse / Earthquake
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid / Naive
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe +

[SET COMMENTS] -


  • Life Orb powers your moves up to decent heights letting you effectively clean
  • Leaf Storm is an option over Giga Drain but is not a nice move late-game
  • Focus Blast provides important coverage on steels and Hydreigon
  • the appropriate hidden power is used for whatever your team struggles with most
  • Dragon Pulse can be used in conjunction with Hidden Power Rock or Fire
  • Earthquake however hits Heatran harder but is not recommended due to Sceptiles 85 base atk and in BW2 major defensive boost have been given

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

  • -
  • entry hazards is sceptile's best friend
  • breloom, scizor, and bulky waters excellent team mates
  • evs provide max speed and special attack as theats all it needs, naive nature is used when running earthquake
  • Hidden Power Fighting is a poor option over Focus blast due to the underwhelming power and focus blast is better but can be used +
-​
[Other Options]
-


  • swords dance but is weak even with a boost but can be used if you have enough team support, drain punch is a great move with it
  • specs can be used but not a good idea since its main stab is resisted by 7 types
  • Endeavor + Quick Attack is viable but will fail more than your mom
  • grass whistle is nice but the bad accuracy throws it off
  • synthesis is viable on a sun team
  • a flying gem with unburden and acrobatics can be used too to outspeed everything in the metagame
  • detect is a waste of a move slot but is useful for scouting

[Checks and Counters]


  • bilssey and chansey
  • multiscale dragonite
  • any scarfer in general
  • priority
  • frail so wont be lasting long
  • switching can be used to stall out Life Orb too
  • Mamoswine + Weavile are solid checks, weavile can outspeed and OHKO with ice punch

+ [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

- I will finish this over the weekend adding subseed and more info. this is my first time doing this so yea, give me tips +



I will complete this tomorrow or on saturday so dont lock this
 
#2
this thing is a fucking monster, the only hard counters are blissey, chansey, celebi, and jirachi. The only viable set is giga drain/HP ice/leaf storm/focus blast. Mamoswine and weavile are not counters, get your shit straight. They are classified as checks.
 

Pocket

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#3
Other QC members can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Sceptile requires NO revamp to its OU analysis

EDIT: Yea, jc104, you're right - the analysis on-site is very outdated. I agree that we need to re-assess if Sceptile 1) deserves an analysis and 2) if yes, re-consider SubSeed and Unburden sets
 

jc104

Humblest person ever
is a Contributor Alumnus
#4
I don't think sceptile's analysis has been updated at all since the original. That's got to be at least a year and a half, more likely two. The overview repeatedly mentions whimsicott as if it is relevant in OU, and references a banning of shaymin-s as if it were recent. The analysis makes no mention of unburden at all, either.

Also, I think we need to consider if sceptile deserves an analysis, and particularly the subseed set needs to be reconsidered.
 
#5
The analysis on sceptile is really REALLY old. I think sceptile deserves an analysis dud to its ability to counter many common BW2 threats. Also, Asterat, no need for the crappy feelings man. It was a mistake. I finished this really late and needed some sleep. I should add an unburden set over the weekend if I can get creative, I will edit this post later. So, tell me what you think.
 

Shurtugal

The Enterpriser.
is a Tiering Contributor
#6
I haven't used this much, but isn't the Unburden set typically the one you'd want to use so it hits those high speeds? Also, what speeds does Skeptile hit and what is it outspeeding (especially since your not abusing the Unburden set)?

I wouldn't call Mamoswine a counter since its weak to grass STAB and cannot switch in, however, something like Tornadus-I / Lati@s / Volcarona are pretty good (HP Ice is weak).

Also, isn't a physical variant viable too? I haven't actually used Skeptile but I've seen others run sets like this:

Skeptile @ Focus Sash / Grass Gem
Trait; Unburden
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Hp
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Earthquake
- Acrobatics / Brick Break

Technically, at +2 / +2 (unburden), you could only stop this Pokemon with sand / hail damage or priority, or hazards (but leading with this thing can seriously be a blessing.. at least on paper). You could always change the item to Grass Gem if you don't want residual damage to ruin your Sash Burden sweep). The only thing is that Fake Out Normal Gem Unburden Hitmonlee kind've outclasses Skeptile with this role.

I'm not sure how viable either of them are, but I do know that Hitmonlee is hard to stop once it's obtained the unburden boost. Good luck I suppose.
 

Agonist

The day the world went away
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
#7
If you're running an Adamant nature you only need enough Speed to outspeed base 100's (212), and then just dump the rest in HP.
 
#8
If you're running an Adamant nature you only need enough Speed to outspeed base 100's (212), and then just dump the rest in HP.
Wouldn't Garchomp be a noteworthy benchmark as well?

Either way, I'd just like to mention that if SD Unburden is getting a set, Flying Gem should definitely be considered. Flying Gem boosted Acrobatics allows Sceptile to better capitalize on the Pokemon Sceptile lures in, such as SpDef Celebi, Scizor, and so forth, allowing it to benefit more from the surprise value of the set. The extra power Grass Gem provides is all well and good for breaking through certain walls, but one of SD Sceptile's biggest perks is that its checks and counters vastly differ from the specially oriented sets.
 
#9
Long ago in days of yore, there was a cool Unburden Scpetile set posted in the Creative Movesets thread that I tried out and was very entertained by. I don't know if it needs a full blown analysis, but with all the Water moves still existing it's worth considering. Here it is:

Judicator said:
Sceptile (M) @ Absorb Bulb Trait: Unburden
EVs: 240 HP / 252 SAtk / 16 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Giga Drain
- Focus Blast
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fire]



I knew Absorb Bulb had to be good for something.

It's not a difficult concept to understand, just come in on a Water attack (usually a Scald or Rotom-W's Hydro Pump - team preview can help you scan for Sceptile bait) and sweep. Sceptile has 507 SAtk and 558 Speed once Absorb Bulb's been consumed, which is enough to outspeed everything in OU and deal a lot of damage. On top of that, you're not locked into one move, you're not slowly losing HP (unless you get burned by Scald, but even then you can get it back with Giga Drain) and nobody sees it coming. The moveset above is literally the extent of Sceptile's special movepool, but it's just enough to get perfect coverage and hit 10 out of 17 types for super-effective damage, including those of many popular Sceptile counters. Just think of it as a Choice Specs Sceptile which outspeeds every Pokémon in the game and isn't locked in, because that's what it essentially is.

Like any other moveset, this Sceptile has its flaws. One glaringly obvious one is that it can't touch stuff like Blissey. No way around that I'm afraid, just deal with it with the rest of your team. Its moves also have mehtacular base power, so don't be too surprised if you have to resort to Focus Miss more often than you'd like in order to hit more defensive Pokémon, especially if you're dealing with rain. It's not all bad though, since Giga Drain will sap large amounts of HP from anything that doesn't resist it and Dragon Pulse is more than enough to OHKO whatever dragons your opponent tries sending in expecting to outspeed you. Just make sure to pack SR. Oh, and this set HATES Toxic Spikes. Avoid at all costs.

Example logs

EVs: 252 SAtk and Modest to get the most power and because you really don't need Speed anyway, 16 Speed to outrun max Speed Heatran without Scarf or Flame Charge before Unburden kicks in (you never know) and the rest in HP to add to bulk, mainly because it makes stuff like Bullet Punch that much more survivable.

Best paired with SR, one or two Water lures and/or some way of getting rid of Toxic Spikes. Magnezone is really helpful for getting rid of Scizor - either by doing it before Sceptile comes out, by revenge killing it if Sceptile falls to a CB Bullet Punch or simply by making it hesitant to use Bullet Punch due to the previous situation, allowing you to outspeed and KO with HP Fire.



I haven't even tried using this in the lower tiers yet...
 

Agonist

The day the world went away
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
#10
Wouldn't Garchomp be a noteworthy benchmark as well?

Either way, I'd just like to mention that if SD Unburden is getting a set, Flying Gem should definitely be considered. Flying Gem boosted Acrobatics allows Sceptile to better capitalize on the Pokemon Sceptile lures in, such as SpDef Celebi, Scizor, and so forth, allowing it to benefit more from the surprise value of the set. The extra power Grass Gem provides is all well and good for breaking through certain walls, but one of SD Sceptile's biggest perks is that its checks and counters vastly differ from the specially oriented sets.
What is it doing to Garchomp without HP Ice? Although, it may be worth investing enough Speed to outspeed Thundurus-T so you can hit it with Rock Slide.
 
#11
What is it doing to Garchomp without HP Ice? Although, it may be worth investing enough Speed to outspeed Thundurus-T so you can hit it with Rock Slide.
+2 252+ Atk Flying Gem Sceptile Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 308-363 (86.03 - 101.39%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
 

Agonist

The day the world went away
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
#12
huh, didn't realize it was that strong. So yeah, it would be worth it to outspeed Garchomp (232 Spe or 236, I don't remember which).
 
#14
um yeah this is not the way to go about doing this.

first off, you have to reserve analyses in the analysis reservation thread.

second, AccidentalGreed is already doing a Kyurem-B analysis here. it's been QC approved and is almost fully written, so you can't do the analysis.

here's what I would suggest: look in the index thread for Pokemon you can do. the first post clearly shows which Pokemon you can do. post saying you reserve a Pokemon (one that is not being worked on) and post a new thread for that Pokemon.

oh wait, Sceptile wasn't rejected. click on the area below your post in blue that says Last Edited by TheStriker. go to the edit before this one, or whichever one still had Sceptile. revert it back to Sceptile.

good luck!
 
#17
just do what I told you and c/p the differences, you can't directly restore it. c/p the parts that belonged to your sceptile analysis. click "show differences" or whatever it is. that's how you can get it to work :)
 
#19
well I tested Sceptile a little bit, and it did okay. with that said:

- I would deslash HP Fire and move it to AC. HP Ice hits Dragon-types, and HP Rock hits mence / nite and most importantly Volcarona. HP Fire scores a more accurate and marginally more powerful hit on Ferrothorn. It's not worth a moveslot, imo; the other HPs are just so much better. Use Magnezone support if you really need a reliable way around Ferrothorn.

- C&C has a few issues to sort out:
1) Weavile and Mamoswine are NOT counters. They can't switch in, so by definition they are not counters. They are shaky checks, if not simply revenge killers.

2) There is absolutely no reason Multiscale Dragonite should be so high. Get Stealth Rock up. Use either good HP. You beat it.

3) Mention SDef Skarmory, Air Balloon Heatran, Metagross, Scizor (can't take Focus Blast that well though), Tentacruel, SDef Celebi, Ferrothorn, Yache Chomp, Gengar, Gyarados, Latias, and Forretress. Note that HP Fire would only help you with 1-2 of these Pokemon. Many are dependent on set and some lose depending on what the last move is. I mentioned some Pokemon hit by Dragon Pulse and some hit by Earthquake. Mention them for being different checks / counters based on the choice of coverage move. There's more based on the HP. You should be able to come up with a few.

- remove Synthesis from OO, OO is for VIABLE other options. probably remove grasswhistle too. also, detect. and endeavor + quick attack.

- in OO, the Sleep Talk mention needs to warn that both can demolish Sceptile if it picks the wrong move.

- remove ALL of the Kyurem-B stuff! there's still from stuff from it leftover.

- the overview:

1) remove Vaporeon from common threats, and add physically defensive Hippowdon

2) SD doesn't belong there

3) Sceptile is not an "amazing" cleaner. the set in the OP is a decent cleaner, use that or pretty good, nice, etc. amazing is way too strong an adjective, as otherwise Sceptile wouldn't be RU!

4) highlight its Speed a bit more - it's practically the reason Sceptile is usable

5) it is not one of the best SubSeed'ers in the metagame, it's a decent SubSeeder, if not below average. Venusaur outclasses it quite a bit. hell, I'd rather use Jumpluff. tone that down A LOT.

6) mention that Sceptile does well against common rain offense cores, which is probably the only reason to use it.

I won't comment on the set for now. Overall, Sceptile is a "decent" Pokemon. imo, you oversell it, in many areas of the analysis. generally to the analysis down, and touch on Sceptile's niche a bit more, which is doing well vs. rain offense.

Cheers.
 
#22
Sceptile is horrible in Ou after I did some recent tests and is not viable please move this to the locked analysis's cuz it is bad and has no place for ou. I will create a different analysis so yea. Thx.