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Scizor (Baton Pass)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Spirit, Apr 29, 2013.

  1. Spirit

    Spirit
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    [​IMG]

    Scizor

    [SET]
    name: Baton Pass
    move 1: Baton Pass
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Iron Defense
    move 4: Roost
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Light Metal
    nature: Calm
    evs: 248 HP / 20 Def / 114 SpD / 128 Spe
    ivs: 0 Atk

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Deviating from its usual offensive role, Scizor becomes a team player with this supportive set. Thanks to Scizor's access to a plethora of support options and its great defensive typing, which resists the troublesome phazing move Dragon Tail, along with reliable recovery, Scizor can function as a superb ally for Baton Pass teams. Baton Pass is what makes this set possible, allowing Scizor to pass boosts and Substitutes to its teammates and escape from troublesome Pokemon such as Heatran. Substitute is mandatory with Baton Pass chains, allowing the Pokemon behind the Substitute to set up without worry of a critical hit from the opposition. Iron Defense is Scizor's key boosting move, as at +6 Scizor's Substitute can even withstand Choice Band Terrakion's Close Combat. Roost is the final move that heals Scizor while setting up a Substitute; because of Roost, Scizor can even come in multiple times on powerful attacks, continually set up, and recover. This makes Scizor one of the more resilient Baton Pass users while simultaneously giving it an edge over its competitor, Mawile.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The Speed EVs allow Scizor to outspeed base 130 Speed Pokemon without a Choice Scarf when at +2, allowing Scizor to Baton Pass to an appropriate teammate before the likes of Taunt Aerodactyl can move. The Defense EVs ensure that Choice Band Terrakion's Close Combat won't break Scizor's Substitute at +6. The remaining EVs are invested in Special Defense and HP due to Scizor's access to Iron Defense, which makes Defense EVs obsolete. Moreover, the Special Defense investment allows Scizor to tank two Draco Meteors from Choice Specs Latios after Stealth Rock. A Calm nature, along with 0 Attack IVs, is best, as Scizor will take minimum damage from confusion and Foul Play and it will not be utilizing any attacks.</p>

    <p>In terms of other possible setup moves, both Agility and Swords Dance are acceptable options over Roost. Agility Scizor can act as a backup to Ninjask and pass Speed boosts. Swords Dance Scizor can be utilized to pass boosts to Pokemon such as Breloom, Gyarados, and Salamence. If utilizing Swords Dance, Bullet Punch also becomes an acceptable option in order to pick off frail offensive threats such as Dugtrio and Gengar. If Bullet Punch is used, then the nature should be changed to Careful, the ability should be switched to Technician, and the Attack IVs should be changed to 31 in order to have as much power as possible.</p>

    <p>Due to the set's supportive characteristics, it is best utilized with appropriate Baton Pass teammates. Espeon, being the center piece of Baton Pass teams, pairs well with Scizor in deflecting Roar, Whirlwind, and Taunt; the first two nullify Scizor's boosts, while the latter will render Scizor useless. Mr. Mime is also an excellent teammate; with its ability Soundproof, it can block the effects of Perish Song from Pokemon such as Celebi and Politoed. Speaking of Celebi, it is also a good partner to Scizor by being able to pass Calm Mind boosts and tank Electric- and Water-type attacks. Ninjask is also a useful partner that can pass important Speed boosts. Vaporeon pairs well with Scizor, as it is able to tank Fire-type attacks and can even Roar away opposing Roar and Whirlwind users. Finally, Mew's phenomenal movepool makes it an excellent partner as it can Taunt phazers and pass boosts of its own.</p>
  2. Magcargo

    Magcargo Okay
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    Swords dance needs a slash over Iron defense..
    EDIT: Yes espeon doesn't need the SD boost, but more often than not, your going to be sweeping with a different pokemon.
  3. Spirit

    Spirit
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    Can you please read? =-= It was mentioned before you even posted.
  4. Magcargo

    Magcargo Okay
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    I completely missed that. However, while espeon doesn't need the SD boost, other pokemon could use the boost, like gyarados and tyranitar.

    Also slash bullet punch/bug bite with either Agility or roost so you aren't complete taunt bait.
  5. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    swords dance shouldn't be slashed first but it should be slashed behind iron defense as it's a secondary setup move that can be used if you don't really want to waste a slot on ninjask or if you already have vaporeon or mew or something else with acid armor / barrier on your team. substitute should be slashed before roost, since longevity is assured when you're boosting defense and sub is absolutely critical for dodging status and shit like dragon tail that espeon can't block. honestly you should never be running any pokemon on a baton pass team that lacks sub unless it's a recipient sweeper. agility should not be a move on this set since most baton pass teams can simply rely on ninjask for all their speed boosts. it deserves an ac mention though. bullet punch is definitely worth mentioning since it's great for taking out sweepers trying to boost up, especially with attack boosts under your belt. on that note, technician deserves a slash if you're using bullet punch, so be sure to say that as well. other than that there's not a ton you can do...imo the set needs to look like this:

    [SET]
    name: Baton Pass
    move 1: Baton Pass
    move 2: Iron Defense / Swords Dance
    move 3: Bullet Punch / Roost
    move 4: Substitute / Roost
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Technician / Light Metal
    nature: Careful
    evs: 248 HP / 88 SpD / 172 Spe
  6. Spirit

    Spirit
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    Okay lavos, your changes were added.
  7. shrang

    shrang I AM CHAMPION CHRISTMAS!!
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    Does this thing really need a Baton Pass set? I hate to be that guy, but I really think a Pokemon should only get a Baton Pass set if it has other qualities outside of being a dedicated Baton Passer. For example, Espeon and Mr Mime blocks specific ways of stopping Baton Pass teams (phazing and Perish Song). Ninjask can be excused because speed is more crucial to the success of a Baton Pass team more than any other stat. Other Baton Pass users like Celebi and Jolteon aren't really specific to Baton Pass teams, but have their own niche in the metagame but also happened to be able to pass boosts (Celebi as a Specially Defensive water resist, while Jolteon forces out a lot of rain team mons). SmashPassers get their own sets because of how awesome Shell Smash is. This set takes away all of Scizor's advantages and gives it one job: Baton Pass, and that's why I'm really reluctant to think that this deserves a set. There are lots and lots of good dedicated Baton Passers out there. They don't all need analyses.
  8. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    nah shrang it deserves a set, i think you're looking at this the wrong way. you're thinking that something should only get a baton pass set if it does something else for a baton pass team, but you're thinking of it in the frame of mind that scizor always has to be an offensive pokemon, when in reality scizor can serve as a pretty great utility wall, and it's perfect for baton pass teams since it's the only usable steel aside from lolmawile that's a baton passer and every bp team really needs a steel to avoid being shit on by latios/dragonite. absorbing draco meteors and outrages can be really invaluable, especially when you can then take advantage of said moves to start racking up boosts. as far as baton pass goes i think scizor's a staple in the lineup of 6 and i wouldn't begrudge it a simple bp set because it's better used as something else.
  9. Spirit

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    Scizor is a common member on baton pass teams that has a combination of bulk and power. As said in the analysis, it is one of the few baton pass pokemon with reliable recovery, which allows it to take multiple hits if it needs to. I suppose with the new spread its also one of the few members that can take an offensive approach. If Scizor is a viable member on BP teams, why not give it a set so that people know how to use it?
  10. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    I do think this set needs an analysis, but I'm not sure if it's right at the moment.

    I don't understand what SD and Bullet Punch are for, really, and nor do I understand why there are so many speed evs invested for a non-existant threat (and one you would baton pass straight out of anyway, because of the threat of roar).

    You need to mention somewhere what scizor offers over its main competitor, mawile. Mainly, stats, and possibly roost. But Mawile does have intimidate, Taunt, and no 4x weakness (this is a problem because attacks break your subs even at +6).
  11. Spirit

    Spirit
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    Lavos told me to change it to that set though....

    Well here's a new a set I've been thinking of.

    [SET]
    name: Baton Pass
    move 1: Baton Pass
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Iron Defense
    move 4: Roost / Agility
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Light Metal
    nature: Careful
    evs: 248 HP / 134 SpD / 128 Spe

    The speed evs are actually a bit more relevant I guess? You outspeed base 130 pokemon @+2. Which set do I go for, the one that Lavos suggested or this one which was close to the original? x_x
  12. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Definitely with this ^ Icecream, unless we find a better spread.
  13. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    i wasn't paying attention to the evs when i pasted the set i'd suggest, just the moves and ability, so i'm sorry about that! i think the evs you posted are better, just keep the ones currently in the op. outspeeding stuff at +2 is extremely relevant since that's often as much as ninjask can get before it's forced to pass due to a setup sweeper trying to get cute etc. i've played pretty extensively with baton pass and these were close to the evs i used, except i only used enough to outspeed torn-t at +2 back when that guy was legal since i didn'f feel base 130s were all too important...i've seen an influx of jolteon lately though so i think your evs are spot-on with that knowledge in mind. keep it as-is and i think i'm ready to qc, except on the moveset make sure you change where agility currently is to swords dance since agility sucks for the reasons i listed above and sd is important for those same reasons. nice job so far
  14. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    I just can't fathom why you would ever want to boost attack on a baton pass team. You have one mandatory member, espeon, that is a special attack booster, as well as another strongly recommended member, Mr Mime, that is also a special attack booster (neither can pass exclusively SpD). Espeon is also a rather excellent special sweeper. So I don't understand quite why you would want to boost yet another stat. Attack boosts are more of a short pass thing, IMO.

    Re: agility. It's sometimes vaguely useful if Ninjask somehow fails to have a backup, but I'd say that's AC worthy as well. Just have roost as the only option, please.
  15. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    a lot of baton pass teams utilize sd + bp scizor to serve as a safeguard priority attacker, which prevents a lot of things from simply setting up and sweeping or giving the bp team trouble by continually breaking subs with ease. i understand that bp teams are, in general, specially oriented, but the only real sweepers you ever see on full bp are scizor and espeon, the latter even gains extra stored power base power from attack boosts so it's not a waste in any sense of the word. of course you shouldn't be running sd on scizor witohut bullet punch or a physical recipient, that goes without saying, and i don't mind agility getting a slash or ac mention as long as swords dance gets equal representation since in my mind it's just as good.
  16. Spirit

    Spirit
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    Swords Dance and Agility are both in AC. Is this okay now?
  17. Lavos Spawn

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    don't forget to mention that when running bullet punch you ought to use technician alongside it

    qc approved 1/3, nice job
  18. Spirit

    Spirit
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    Thanks Lavos! :D Technician mention was added. One more and I can write this up. ^^

    edit: Thanks ginganinja!
  19. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    [qc]2/3[/qc]
  20. Spirit

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    So I changed the nature to Calm and added 0 atk ivs, because Scizor won't be using them to begin with and it minimizes confusion damage; I ac'd Careful and 31 atk ivs though. I also added 20 defense evs so that at +6 Terrakion's CB CC won't break Scizor's sub. I left the skeleton intact in case it's still needed. Anyway, this is written and ready for the final check.
  21. BKC

    BKC <&gr8astard> thrash metal! woo
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    qc approved 3/3
  22. Spirit

    Spirit
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    I had to clean up so many of my grammar errors it was embarrassing. >.< Thanks BKC, this is ready for GP.
  23. Governess

    Governess A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
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    Hihi, amateur check. My computer is being a big jerk atm, so it split in half. Hopefully I helped.

    {EDIT: Oh, i seeeee how that happened. Ok, next time, I won't do this ^^;)

    Show Hide
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    [SET]
    name: Baton Pass
    move 1: Baton Pass
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Iron Defense
    move 4: Roost
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Light Metal
    nature: Calm
    evs: 248 HP / 20 Def / 114 SpD / 128 Spe
    ivs: 0 Atk

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Deviating from its usual offensive role, Scizor becomes a team player with this supportive set. Thanks to Scizor's access to a plethora of support options, (RC) and its great defensive typing, (AC) which resists the troublesome phazing move, Dragon Tail; along with reliable recovery, Scizor can function as a superb ally for Baton Pass teams. Baton Pass is what makes this set possible, allowing Scizor to pass boosts and Substitutes to its teammates and escape from troublesome Pokemon, such as Heatran. Substitute is mandatory with Baton Pass chains, allowing the Pokemon behind the Substitute to booset up (boost doesn't sound right in most of the sentences you use it in; set up sounds more proper.) without worry of a critical hit from the opposition. Iron Defense is Scizor's key boosting move, as at +6, Scizor's Substitute can even withstand Choice Band Terrakion's Close Combat. Roost is the final move that heals Scizor while setting up a Substitute; because of Roost, Scizor can even come in multiple times on powerful attacks, continually
    booset up, and recover. This makes Scizor one of the more resilient Baton Pass users while simultaneously giving it an edge over its competitor, Mawile. (Why are you mentioning Mawile as a competitor? It is rarely used in NU, its home tier. Why would anyone use it in OU?)</Pp>


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The Speed EVs allow Scizor to outspeed base 130 Speed Pokemon without a Choice Scarf at +2;,(AC) allowing Scizor to Baton Pass to an appropriate teammate from the likes of Taunt Aerodactyl. The Defense EVs [s]make [/s]ensure that a Choice Band Terrakion's Close Combat won't break Scizor's Substitute at +6. The remaining EVs are invested in Special Defense and HP due to Scizor's access to Iron Defense, which makes Defense EVs obsolete. Moreover, the Special Defense investment allows Scizor to tank 2two Draco Meteors from Choice Specs Latios after Stealth Rock. A Calm nature along with 0 Attack IVs are best, as Scizor will take minimum damage from Confusion and Foul Play and will not be utilizing any attacks.<
    /Pp/>

    <p>In terms of other possible boo[/s]setup moves, both Agility and Swords Dance are acceptable options over Roost. Agility Scizor can act as a backup to Ninjask and pass sSpeed boosts. Swords Dance Scizor can be utilized to pass boosts to Pokemon such as Breloom, Gyarados, and Salamence. If utilizing Swords Dance, Bullet Punch also becomes an acceptable option in order to pick off frail offensive threats such as Dugtrio and Gengar. If Bullet Punch is used, then the nature should be changed to Careful, the ability should be switched to Technician, and the Attack IVs should be changed to 31 in order to have as much power as possible.</p>

    <p>Due to the set's supportive characteristics, it is best utilized with appropriate Baton Pass teammates. Espeon, being the center piece of Baton Pass teams, pairs well with Scizor in deflecting Roar, Whirlwind, and Taunt; the first two nullify Scizor's boosts while the latter will
    render Scizor uselesscause it to use Struggle if it lacks an attack. (You don't need to mention Struggle in this.) Mr. Mime is also an excellent teammate, as; (semi-colon) with its ability Soundproof, it can block the effects of Perish Song from Pokemon such as Celebi and Politoad. Speaking of Celebi, it is also a good partner to Scizor by being able to pass Calm Mind boosts and tank Electric- and Water-type attacks. Ninjask is also a useful partner that can pass important sSpeed boosts. (Capitalize the word 'Speed'.) Vaporeon partners well with Scizor, being able to tank Fire-type attacks, and can even Roar away opposing Roar/ and Whirlwind users. (Don't abbreviate the word 'and' for '/'.) Finally, Mew's phenomenal movepool makes it an excellent partner is it can tTaunt phazers and pass boosts of its own.</p>

  24. Spirit

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    Thanks governess, Implemented. ^^
  25. MysticNova

    MysticNova

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    Show Hide

    [SET]
    name: Baton Pass
    move 1: Baton Pass
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Iron Defense
    move 4: Roost
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Light Metal
    nature: Calm
    evs: 248 HP / 20 Def / 114 SpD / 128 Spe
    ivs: 0 aAtk

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Deviating from its usual offensive role, Scizor becomes a team player with this supportive set. Thanks to Scizor's access to a plethora of support options and its great defensive typing, which resists the troublesome phazing move, Dragon Tail; along with reliable recovery, Scizor can function as a superb ally for Baton Pass teams. Baton Pass is what makes this set possible, allowing Scizor to pass boosts and Substitutes to its teammates and escape from troublesome Pokemon such as Heatran. Substitute is mandatory with Baton Pass chains, allowing the Pokemon behind the Substitute to set up without worry of a critical hit from the opposition. Iron Defense is Scizor's key boosting move, as at +6, Scizor's Substitute can even withstand Choice Band Terrakion's Close Combat. Roost is the final move that heals Scizor while setting up a Substitute; because of Roost, Scizor can even come in multiple times on powerful attacks, continually set up, and recover. This makes Scizor one of the more resilient Baton Pass users while simultaneously giving it an edge over its competitor, Mawiles.</p>

    (Delete one line)
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The Speed EVs allow Scizor to outspeed base 130 Speed Pokemon without a Choice Scarf when at +2, allowing Scizor to Baton Pass to an appropriate teammate frombefore the likes of Taunt Aerodactyl can move. The Defense EVs ensure that Choice Band Terrakion's Close Combat won't break Scizor's Substitute at +6. The remaining EVs are invested in Special Defense and HP due to Scizor's access to Iron Defense, which makes Defense EVs obsolete. Moreover, the Special Defense investment allows Scizor to tank two Draco Meteors from Choice Specs Latios after Stealth Rock. A Calm nature,(comma) along with 0 Attack IVs are,(comma) is best, as Scizor will take minimum damage from Cconfusion and Foul Play and will not be utilizing any attacks.</p>

    <p>In terms of other possible setup moves, both Agility and Swords Dance are acceptable options over Roost. Agility Scizor can act as a backup to Ninjask and pass speed boosts. Swords Dance Scizor can be utilized to pass boosts to Pokemon such as Breloom, Gyarados, and Salamence. If utilizing Swords Dance, Bullet Punch also becomes an acceptable option in order to pick off frail offensive threats such as Dugtrio and Gengar. If Bullet Punch is used, then the nature should be changed to Careful, the ability should be switched to Technician, and the Attack IVs should be changed to 31 in order to have as much power as possible.</p>

    <p>Due to the set's supportive characteristics, it is best utilized with appropriate Baton Pass teammates. Espeon, being the center piece of Baton Pass teams, pairs well with Scizor in deflecting Roar, Whirlwind, and Taunt; the first two nullify Scizor's boosts,(comma) while the latter will render Scizor useless. Mr. Mime is also an excellent teammate; as with its ability Soundproof, it can block the effects of Perish Song from Pokemon such as Celebi and Politoad. Speaking of Celebi, it is also a good partner to Scizor by being able to pass Calm Mind boosts and tank Electric- and Water-type attacks. Ninjask is also a useful partner that can pass important Speed boosts. Vaporeon partneirs well with Scizor, beingas it is able to tank Fire-type attacks, and can even Roar away opposing Roar and Whirlwind users. Finally, Mew's phenomenal movepool makes it an excellent partner ias it can Taunt phazers and pass boosts of its own.</p>


    [gp]1/2[/gp]

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