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Scizor (Trapper)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Tomahawk, Apr 7, 2012.

  1. Tomahawk

    Tomahawk Nidoqueen is good in Ubers!
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    [​IMG]

    [SET]
    name: Trapper
    move 1: Pursuit
    move 2: Bullet Punch
    move 3: U-turn
    move 4: Roost
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Technician
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 248 HP / 112 Atk / 148 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Scizor is able to trap several dangerous Pokemon such as Latios, Alakazam, and Gengar. This set capitalizes on that and is as such able to trap those threats more effectively than the Choice Band set. Using Life Orb instead of Choice Band means that Scizor won't be locked into Pursuit when using it; this avoids dangerous sweepers such as Dragonite and Terrakion setting up on Scizor. It also lets Scizor use Roost, which along with the bulkier EV spread, enhances Scizor's longevity and also gives it an easier time switching in on the aforementioned threats.</p>

    <p>Pursuit is the key move on this set, being able to KO fleeing Pokemon. Bullet Punch is able to take down weakened Pokemon and allows Scizor to checkmate Alakazam and Gengar even when it is weakened if you predict correctly. U-turn is Scizor's most powerful move, and is useful for keeping the momentum on your side. Roost keeps Scizor high on health, preventing it from being worn down by repeated attacks or entry hazard damage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>The 112 Attack EVs are used for some notable KOs, including KOing Latios with Pursuit after Stealth Rock damage and KOing Gengar with Bullet Punch accounting Stealth Rock damage, Substitute, and two rounds of Leftovers. The rest of the EVs are used to maximize bulk, specificially on the special side as the Pokemon Scizor is being used to trap are all specially oriented. If you want, you can go with an even bulkier spread along with Leftovers to switch in on the likes of Gengar and Latios more easily; 248 HP / 28 Atk / 236 SpD avoids 2HKOs from Choice Specs Latios's Draco Meteor and Life Orb Gengar's Focus Blast most of the time.</p>

    <p>Life Orb is the recommended item to get the KOs mentioned, but if you don't like the recoil a different item can be used. Expert Belt and Dark Gem both increase Pursuit's power and also allow Scizor to bluff a Choice item. Occa Berry is another option, as this means an unexpected Hidden Power Fire won't take down Scizor allowing it to KO what it's trapping.</p>

    <p>If you're not using Occa Berry, Drizzle Politoed is a useful teammate. This lets Scizor take a Hidden Power Fire if needed, so that it will still be able to trap any Latios that carries it. This set is easily walled by Steel-types; as such, Heatran and Magnezone provide good teammates, both having a 4x resistance to Steel-type attacks and being able to take down Steel-types with either a powerful STAB Fire Blast or Magnet Pull and a combination of Substitute and Charge Beam, respectively. This set is best paired with teammates that appreciate the likes of Latios and Gengar being removed, and Virizion is a prime example of that. While Latios, Alakazam, and Gengar can usually stop its sweep, Scizor is able to trap them, which leaves Virizion free to threaten the opposing team.</p>
  2. JellyOs

    JellyOs

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    I'm using a set similar to this right now that I was gonna post in C&C, but this one's really good. I use more speed and attack, and Superpower instead of Pursuit, but this set does kick ass. Maybe try Superpower and a spread of 156 HP / 252 Atk / 100 Spe. I feel your set is limited without having that ridiculous power. I can't post Life Orb + 3 Attacks anymore ;-;, good luck with this set though!
  3. Ojama

    Ojama Let's trizzle the shizzle all over the hizzle
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    Yeah this Scizor is pretty good but tbh, you could try a bulkier spread. I mean, you can add another one. 248 HP / 44 ATK / 216 SDef with Leftovers / Iron Plate. This set is actually really good since its bulkier than yours and sometimes leftovers are really usefull. I don't know why you talked about wobbuffet this thing isnt used so that's not really important. You could maybe talk about Dugtrio which trapps Heatran, Magnezone. but that's for your offensive spread. About the bulky one, adding Bulky Starmie as a teammate is a good idea since it comes easily against heatran, skarmory, tentacruel.
  4. HoiPolloi

    HoiPolloi

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    That are too many EVs. But more special bulk is definitely something Scizor could really for switching into Latios. And 44 Atk is enough that Latios won't be able to switch back into Stealth Rocks, if you get only min damage.
  5. Ojama

    Ojama Let's trizzle the shizzle all over the hizzle
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    Oh yeah, its 216 SDef sorry
  6. Thundur

    Thundur

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    I think Occa Berry should get a mention. It would catch HP Fire Celebi, HP Fire Reuniclus, Latios/Latias, etc. off guard. Scizor can take a hit with Occa Berry and OHKO with U-turn, and come in later in the game on a non-threatening Pokemon and Roost off the damage. The power drop is always a down side, but I think it is an equal trade off.
  7. Tomahawk

    Tomahawk Nidoqueen is good in Ubers!
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    @JellyOs: I think your set works a little different than this one: your set would probably be better of in Choice Band's AC, OO, or even as a different set.

    @Ojama: Thanks, I listed that spread in the AC. Though, could you explain what the spread does exactly? That way, I can list it in the writeup. Also, Wobbuffet isn't exactly common, but it's a cool teammate. If it can trap something and Tickle it enough times, pretty much everything will be KOed by Pursuit regardless of whether or not they stay in or switch out. For example, defensive Politoed will take a minimum of 75% from non-switching Pursuit at -6, but that's if it doesn't switch so you can Pursuit again. If it switches, it's dead. Cool for weather wars and for special sweepers that have trouble with Blissey or something similar. Dugtrio is cool, I'll mention it. I'll mention Starmie as well, thanks.

    @Thundur: Hm, that might be useful, I mentioned it.
  8. Ojama

    Ojama Let's trizzle the shizzle all over the hizzle
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    Since its a bulkier spread, you can switch easily in against alakazam, gengar, reuniclus, gengar. The problem with your spread and LO is when you'll use u-turn, you will lose a few hp and with SR or Spikes and without leftovers, you couldnt come on kazam, gar, reuniclus. In addition, with my spread, you can add Swords Dance instead of Pursuit which works pretty well in late game. Oh and last thing, with my spread + leftovers, the opponent will think 99% of the time that you're the BulkySD Roost so without pursuit and wont stay with Gengar, Alakazam, Starmie, etc... so if you run Pursuit on this Set, you will trap easier.
  9. Tomahawk

    Tomahawk Nidoqueen is good in Ubers!
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    Yeah, I get that, but I mean if the atk evs or spdef evs do something exactly. like ko latios or something similar or avoid the 2hko from draco meteor
  10. Ojama

    Ojama Let's trizzle the shizzle all over the hizzle
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    You're 3HKO by Latios
  11. asterat

    asterat

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    Why not just use a SpD/Sub+Para Jirachi
    @Tomahawk9 I'm pretty Ojama's EVs prevent OHKO of modest celebi HP fire
  12. Thundur

    Thundur

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    I don't know why you would even make that comment. Both Pokemon play completely differently. Yes, they do check/counter some of the same Pokemon, but that does not mean they fulfill all the same purposes. The Jirachi sets you mentioned take a more bulky approach to take on threats, using Serene Grace to contribute to the sets success. This set takes a more offensive approach, and has the ability to both trap threats, and use a powerful priority attack (BP).

    @your response to Ojama's EVs: If you plan to be staying in on Modest Celebi's HP Fire, you should be running an Occa Berry (unless Scizor would not be needed to achieve victory, so you have room to render Scizor useless to kill Celebi). Even if you are able to take an HP Fire with that spread, Scizor would take LO damage, putting Scizor at very low health if it does not kill it. Even if you did have a little bit of extra health left from taking the hit and LO, you would have to make sure hazards are not on the field before you switch back in.
  13. JellyOs

    JellyOs

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    I've played this set and it works quite well, alot different than mine. Have you though about running enough speed EVs so Mag cant trap you? well, slow mag at least. i like this set alot, good luck
  14. Doughboy

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    If you want to use a specialized trapper, why not use Weaville? Weaville might not be able to swithc in directly in some cases (it can on predicted psychic and ghost moves/disable), however being able to outspeed some targets can be highly beneficial. Weaville can KO Starmie, Gengar, and Alakazam with Pursuit alone while still outspeeding (Latios falls to Purtsuit@70% health). The importance of this is that you don't have to risk being potentially KO'ed or having to be maintained over a certain level of health in order to trap. More importantly it also means against certain threats (Starmie, Zam, Gengar, >70% Latios) you don't have to resort to the 50-50 mindgame of Pursuit vs Bullet Punch, rather it becomes the 100% checkmate with pursuit. Weaville contains the same niche of Scizor of being able to KO Dragons (strong Ice Shard). Being super-specific, but one target that Weaville can trap that Scizor can is Jellicent (50-50 mindgame there though with Night Slash vs Pursuit).

    Lastly:
    Wouldn't it be risky to go for the U-turn considering a lot of Latias can dodge it with Substitute?
  15. Jimera0

    Jimera0 You don't understand, Edgar is the one in the hole!

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    I had a similar thought with Tyranitar, which I'm using on my current team as a dual trapper/weather inducer and it works absolute wonders (Chopple Berry means those pesky Focus Blasts just bounce right off you while you murder them with Crunch). But then I realized that each of these trappers fills slightly different niches. Tyranitar has the most bulk or the most power, depending on what spread you use, but comes with Sand which may be offputting to some (don't even talk about Unnerve; that Sp.Def boost from sandstream MAKES Tyranitar). Scizor has more Bulk that Weavile and can actually switch into the Pokemon it's trying to trap rather than functioning as a revenge killer, while Weavile can trap Jellicent effectively (unlike the other two) and avoid taking damage at all against some threats. Each has their own advantages and disadvantages, and each deserves their own analysis.

    As for U-Turning on Latias, believe me, as a user of Latias I know that's a big perk. If it Subs it's not that big a deal because you're breaking its sub then switching to another Pokemon of your choice best suited to dealing with Sub CM Latias. If it doesn't have a Sub (and around half don't), it's just plain dead. Considering how vital a pivot Latias can be... well it's useful.

    And I'm not sure on the reasoning behind Ojama's bulkier spread. Maybe some calcs would better show how it works? I worry that if you were to take away most of the sets power by removing Life Orb and the attack EVs that you'd lose out on a lot of Pursuit KOs too. I know things like Reuniclus and Latias can actually handle weaker Pursuits and still be a bother later on if you don't have to power to finish them off.
    Basically, that spread needs some calcs backing it up before it gets added to the analysis.
  16. zdrup15

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    QC APPROVED 1/3
  17. Tomahawk

    Tomahawk Nidoqueen is good in Ubers!
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    Thanks for the approval zdrup!

    @JellyOs: Slow Magnezone (0 EVs) is already outsped by Scizor, thanks to its higher base speed. Faster Magnezone would require too many Speed EVs and you lose important power or bulk.

    @ThePillsburyDoughBoy: Jimera0 provided some good reasoning: Weavile is much frailer than Scizor and it can't switch in on any of these threats which Scizor can thanks to its typing. Scizor can also invest in bulk which Weavile can't if you want to outspeed them. Dragon resistance, and Bullet Punch are also great, and U-turn and Roost are two more advantages.

    Not all Latias carry Substitute, and in my opinion it is inferior to Roar and HP Fire Latias as well. Looking at the moveset statistics of this month:
    Also, 92 Atk EVs are invested to KO Latios with Pursuit, might as well invest 8 more for non-Sub Latias.

    @Jimera0: Well, the spread is gonna be in AC. The main spread will still be this one, but the bulky spread can be useful for taking hits and for example isn't KOed by Expert Belt Latios Draco Meteor + Hidden Power Fire, just to name something.
  18. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Oh right, I forgot this. I tried out a similar set not too long ago, and it worked out okay for my trapping needs. It's really a personal thing, deciding whether or not which set has more utility. The written analysis, therefore, needs to further specify which sorts of conditions this set works well in, and make a parallel to the Choice Band set.

    All things considered, it's a considerable set.

    [​IMG]

    QC Approved [2/3]
  19. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Tomahawk, I only have a few suggestions:
    • Bump Scizor's Atk to 112 Atk EVs - it lets Scizor's Bullet Punch to take out Gengar after SR damage, Substitute, and 2 turns of lefties (75%). It also allows Bullet Punch to OHKO Terrakion after Rocks on average and also has 2/3 of a chance to OHKO Alakazam with Bullet Punch. Take out the EVs from Special Defense. Unless you lose out on some important special bulk, I think it's worth the change.
    • Change the specially defensive set to 248 HP / 24 Atk / 236 SpD: The spread suggested by Ojama is outdated (it's designed to survive a 2HKO from Virizion's and CM Reuniclus's Focus Blast). With the proposed spread, Scizor can survive a 2HKO from LO Gengar's Focus Blast most of the time (max damage 54%), assuming Lefties and no SR damage. It has just enough Atk EVs to score 50% on a retreating max HP Latias most of the time and OTR Reuniclus on average.
    • Add teammates that benefits from your Scizor's trapping capabilities. Virizion is a big example.

    Thoughts?
  20. Tomahawk

    Tomahawk Nidoqueen is good in Ubers!
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    Thanks Pocket, I implemented those changes.
  21. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    GG

    QC Approved (3/3)
  22. Tomahawk

    Tomahawk Nidoqueen is good in Ubers!
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    This is ready for GP!
  23. DittoCrow

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    Amateur GP Check

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    [SET]
    name: Trapper
    move 1: Pursuit
    move 2: Bullet Punch
    move 3: U-turn
    move 4: Roost
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Technician
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 248 HP / 112 Atk / 148 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Scizor is able to trap several dangerous Pokemon such as Latios, Alakazam, and Gengar. This set capitalizes on that, and as such, is able to trap those threats more effectively than the Choice Band set. Using a Life Orb instead of Choice Band means that Scizor won't be locked in Pursuit when using it. This avoids dangerous sweepers such as Dragonite and Scrafty setting up on you. It also lets Scizor use Roost, which along with the bulkier EV spread, means Scizor will usually survive longer and also gives it an easier time switching in on the aforementioned threats.</p>

    <p>Pursuit is the key move to this set, being able to checkmate fleeing Pokemon. Bullet Punch is able to take down weakened Pokemon, and allows Scizor to checkmateKO(repetitive) Alakazam and Gengar even when reallyScizor is weakened if you predict correctly. U-turn is Scizor's most powerful move, and is a useful move to keep the momentum on your side. Roost keeps Scizor high on health, preventing it from being worn down by repeated attacks or entry hazard damage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>The 112 Attack EVs are used for some notable KOes, including KOing Latios with Pursuit after Stealth Rock, as well as the KO onKOing Gengar with Bullet Punch after Stealth Rock, Substitute, and two rounds of Leftovers. The rest of the EVs are used to maximize bulk, specificially on the special side, as the Pokemon Scizor is being used to trap are all specially oriented. If you want, you can go with an even bulkier spread along with Leftovers to switch in on Gengar, Latios, and the likes easier.; 248 HP / 28 Atk / 236 SpD avoids the 2HKO from Choice Specs Latios's Draco Meteor, as well as the 2HKO from Life Orb Gengar's Focus Blast most of the time.</p>

    <p>Life Orb is the recommended item forto get the KOes mentioned, but if you don't like the recoil, a different item can be used. Expert Belt and Dark Gem both still increase Pursuit's power, but also allow Scizor to bluff a Choice item. Occa Berry is another option, as this means an unexpected Hidden Power Fire won't take down Scizor, and it can still take downllowing it to KO what it's trapping.</p>

    <p>If you're not using Occa Berry, Drizzle Politoed provides a useful teammate. This lets Scizor take a Hidden Power Fire if needed, so that it will still be able to trap any Latios's carrying that carries it. This set is easily walled by Steel-types. As such, Heatran and Magnezone provide good teammates, both having a 4x resistance to Steel-type attacks, and being able to take down Steel-types with either a powerful STAB Fire Blast or Magnet Pull and a combination of Substitute and Charge Beam respectively. This set is best paired with teammates that appreciates the likes of Latios and Gengar being trappremoved, and Virizion is a prime example of that. While Latios, Alakazam, and Gengar can usually stop its sweep, Scizor is able to trap them, which leaves Virizion free to threaten the opposing team.</p>


    c/p (open)
    [SET]
    name: Trapper
    move 1: Pursuit
    move 2: Bullet Punch
    move 3: U-turn
    move 4: Roost
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Technician
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 248 HP / 112 Atk / 148 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Scizor is able to trap several dangerous Pokemon such as Latios, Alakazam, and Gengar. This set capitalizes on that, and as such, is able to trap those threats more effectively than the Choice Band set. Using Life Orb instead of Choice Band means that Scizor won't be locked in Pursuit when using it. This avoids dangerous sweepers such as Dragonite and Scrafty setting up on you. It also lets Scizor use Roost, which along with the bulkier EV spread, means Scizor will usually survive longer and also gives it an easier time switching in on the aforementioned threats.</p>

    <p>Pursuit is the key move to this set, being able to checkmate fleeing Pokemon. Bullet Punch is able to take down weakened Pokemon, and allows Scizor to KO Alakazam and Gengar even when Scizor is weakened if you predict correctly. U-turn is Scizor's most powerful move, and is a useful move to keep the momentum on your side. Roost keeps Scizor high on health, preventing it from being worn down by repeated attacks or entry hazard damage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>The 112 Attack EVs are used for some notable KOs, including KOing Latios with Pursuit after Stealth Rock, as well as KOing Gengar with Bullet Punch after Stealth Rock, Substitute, and two rounds of Leftovers. The rest of the EVs are used to maximize bulk, specificially on the special side, as the Pokemon Scizor is being used to trap are all specially oriented. If you want, you can go with an even bulkier spread along with Leftovers to switch in on Gengar, Latios, and the likes easier; 248 HP / 28 Atk / 236 SpD avoids the 2HKO from Choice Specs Latios's Draco Meteor, as well as the 2HKO from Life Orb Gengar's Focus Blast most of the time.</p>

    <p>Life Orb is the recommended item to get the KOs mentioned, but if you don't like the recoil, a different item can be used. Expert Belt and Dark Gem both increase Pursuit's power, but also allow Scizor to bluff a Choice item. Occa Berry is another option, as this means an unexpected Hidden Power Fire won't take down Scizor, allowing it to KO what it's trapping.</p>

    <p>If you're not using Occa Berry, Drizzle Politoed provides a useful teammate. This lets Scizor take a Hidden Power Fire if needed, so that it will still be able to trap any Latios that carries it. This set is easily walled by Steel-types. As such, Heatran and Magnezone provide good teammates, both having a 4x resistance to Steel-type attacks, and being able to take down Steel-types with either a powerful STAB Fire Blast or Magnet Pull and a combination of Substitute and Charge Beam respectively. This set is best paired with teammates that appreciate the likes of Latios and Gengar being removed, and Virizion is a prime example of that. While Latios, Alakazam, and Gengar can usually stop its sweep, Scizor is able to trap them, which leaves Virizion free to threaten the opposing team.</p>
  24. Tomahawk

    Tomahawk Nidoqueen is good in Ubers!
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    Thanks DittoCrow, I implemented those changes.
  25. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    Working on top of DittoCrow's check. My edits:
    Add
    Remove
    Comments
    Ignore the copypastable version of DittoCrow's check and add this one.

    GP Approved 1/2

    [​IMG]

    EDIT: Seems like you were quicker than me this time. Just don't forget to make my changes. Make sure you make it look exactly like this check now.

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