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Scizor

Discussion in 'Ubers' started by Fireburn, Nov 13, 2013.

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  1. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
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    [​IMG]
    Name
    : Scizor
    Type: Bug / Steel
    Ability: Swarm / Technician / Light Metal
    Base Stats: 70 / 130 / 100 / 55 / 80 / 65

    [​IMG]

    MEvo Type: Bug / Steel
    MEvo Ability: Technician
    MEvo Stats: 70 / 150 / 140 / 65 / 100 / 75

    Movepool: http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/scizor/moves

    Notable Moves
    -Bullet Punch
    -U-turn
    -Defog
    -Superpower
    -Roost
    -Pursuit
    -Brick Break
    -Bug Bite
    -Toxic
    -Baton Pass
    -Thief
    -Agility
    -Substitute

    General Description

    While it was a fairly common sight in DPP Ubers, Scizor fell out of the limelight in BW2 due to newcomers Reshiram and Zekrom eating it for breakfast and increased competition for a teamslot with Ferrothorn and Genesect. However, XY gave Scizor some nice buffs that look to give it a new lease on life in XY Ubers. First and foremost was that Scizor gained a potent new Mega Evolution, boasting higher Attack and greatly increased defenses, gaining much appreciated special bulk and Skarmory-level Defense. In particular, one thing Mega Scizor can boast that not a lot of other Pokemon can is that it can check both Extremekiller Arceus and Geomancy Xerneas with the right set, both threats that should be accounted for on every team. In fact, the new fairies Xerneas and Arceus-Fairy alone give Scizor a greater niche as it can smack them with STAB SE Bullet Punch before they can move. Secondly, Scizor also learns the buffed and much coveted Defog and sports immunity to Poison and reliable recovery as well as not fearing Mega Gengar too much, making it a great hazards control Pokemon and partner for dangerous things like Ho-Oh. Normal Scizor can also rock Assault Vest to tank special attacks even better than before, if you need it as a trapper or sponge for Draco Meteors.

    However, Scizor also received a pretty significant nerf in the loss of its Ghost- and Dark-type resistances, which harms its ability to swap into things like Arceus-Ghost and Darkrai. Aegislash also gives Scizor stiff competition for a teamslot due to Aegislash boasting even better defenses, STAB Ghost attacks, and not taking up a Mega slot if you elect to use Scizorite. And of course, Genesect is still around. Despite this, Scizor received more buffs than nerfs, and I think it'll be something to look out for in XY.

    Sets

    Scizor @ Scizorite
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 40 Atk / 220 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Bullet Punch
    - Roost
    - U-turn
    - Toxic / Defog

    This is one of the best checks to Xerneas you will find - Xerneas cannot come close to OHKOing Mega Scizor at +2 with anything other than HP Fire whereas Scizor can comfortably swap in on the Geomancy or a Moonblast and 2HKO with Bullet Punch. Mega Scizor can also check Extremekiller Arceus pretty well via Toxic Stalling while only being seriously hurt (but not OHKOed) by +2 LO Earthquake, and LO is not usually a common item on Extremekiller. U-turn is cool as Mega Scizor makes for a nice check to non LO Darkrai and Mewtwo without Fire Blast, and it is a generally good move to pivot out of checks and get sizable chip damage onto random stuff. Toxic helps cripple Ho-Oh as Mega Scizor is otherwise total bait for it outside of U-turning out on the switch, and it allows Scizor to 1 vs 1 right many things with its huge Defense such as EKiller, Lando-T, and Lugia. If you don't need Toxic, Defog is hazards control and is nice to put onto Scizor if you really need that 4th moveslot on your Arceus. Mega Scizor is great at Defogging in general as it boasts high defenses, great defensive typing, and is hard to wear down due to Toxic immunity. This is just overall a great utility Pokemon that can fit onto a lot of teams.

    Ho-Oh is a great partner for this set as it appreciates Defog and can take Fire moves aimed at Mega Scizor, plus it checks Aegislash well. Rock Arceus is also good as it counters Ho-Oh and appreciates Mega Scizor's ability to come in on Grass-type moves.

    Scizor @ Scizorite
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 40 Atk / 220 SDef
    Adamant / Careful Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite / Superpower / Thief
    - Roost / Superpower / Thief

    Mega Scizor can pull off a solid bulky SD set even better than ever due to the Mega's much higher defenses and attack power. This set focuses on abusing Mega Scizor's nice defenses with Roost to get multiple boosts and sweep a weakened team late game. The moves here are obvious for the most part: BP is STAB Priority, Bug Bite is more powerful STAB for bulkier walls and things that resist BP, and Superpower nails Heatran and Dialga.

    However, another interesting option in Gen 6 is Thief. Thief was buffed to 60 BP in XY, which becomes a respectable 90 after Technician. It allows Scizor to beat Aegislash, kill 168 HP Giratina-O after SR damage at +2, do a surprisingly high amount of damage to Lugia, and retain SE coverage vs other Psychic-types. Not bad for what was a mostly useless move in Gen 5.

    Make sure you pack reliable answers to Ho-Oh, Giratina, and Support Arceus if you use this.

    Conclusion

    Scizor looks to be pretty well set-up to make something of a comeback this generation. What are your opinions on Scizor?
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2013
  2. Annabeth

    Annabeth

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    No mention of CB Scizor ?
    I think it is a very good set in ubers, as it does 75%+ to Xerneas, can destroy Ekiller without Life Orb+Earthquake, keep momentum with strong U-Turn and have some revenge killing utility with powerful Bullet Punch.
    Valafar123 likes this.
  3. Haruno

    Haruno Sprouts > Kale
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    Genesect exists. The only thing cb Zor is doing is most likely ohko'ing 200 def xern. It can't really keep momentum since there's not much it forces out with the threat of a uturn (unlike gene) being choice locked into a fighting move is one of the worst ideas possible anyhow
  4. Annabeth

    Annabeth

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    Genesect has no priority and this is very useful in many situations. And destroying Geomancy Xerneas is a pretty big thing.
    CB Scizor U-Turn is more powerful (reliably, as Download isn't reliable) than Genesect's and being slower is actually useful against some stallers (Deoxys-D or Lugia for example will hate this and will be forced out).
    Superpower is for an emergency check, you would need another counter to Ekiller, that's true.
  5. Haruno

    Haruno Sprouts > Kale
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    Uhhhh..... Being slow and banded is a horrible combination. Scizor is weak by uber standards (this isn't Ou where it threatens everything) in reality scizor doesn't do much at all besides soft checking xern/ekiller. Bulky megazor does a better job of checking both of those over band Zor anyhow. As far as gene is concerned, most people will assume it's scarfed and thus get forced out while in scizors case there isn't anything in the tier it really threatens when said mons are at full life. Also gene has espeed which is arguably better priority than bp. Overall as far as choiced sets are concerned, Zor isn't doing much since it lacks the pressure gene has and worse yet it lacks the power and versatility that gene has.
  6. Hack

    Hack formerly Hack He Must
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    To me, Szicor users must be more aware of the Ho-oh bait Scizor is. Often U-turning on the switch into something like Kyogre is not enough with physically defensive Ho-oh+Amoonguss dual regen cores etc running around. Point is you got to be able to handle Ho-oh well if you are using Scizor, and possibly running Toxic on the bug to cripple Ho-oh on the switch. Other than that Scizor is a decent mon with interesting niches. I don't think Scizor is that great of a defoger when compared to Arceus, it's slower, easier taunted, and has a harder time creating free turns. If I run Ho-oh then Arceus or maybe Giratina (o) support would be my primary choice.
  7. Annabeth

    Annabeth

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    Against Toxic stallers, like Lugia and Deoxys-D this is useful, that's what I mean. If Lugia roosts, U-Turn is super effective. Moreover, it breaks Multiscale and you can switch in safely (no chance of Toxik as you are slower) to something faster and strong enough. That may seem situational, but this is useful against stall teams.

    That's why I use Arceus-Rock with my CB Scizor.
    Hack likes this.
  8. ChaosNemesis

    ChaosNemesis

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    How about a bulky attacker M-Scizor?

    Scizor @ Scizorite
    Adamant
    252Hp 252Atk 4SDef
    roost
    bullet punch
    u-turn/bug bite
    superpower
  9. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
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    I agree that Scizor being Ho-Oh bait sucks, it really can't do much aside from Toxic and simply U-turning out doesn't work in a metagame without as much hazards spam. You'd either have to have a really solid counter for it or to be able to pressure it adequately by denying it free switches with your other team members.

    I also won't deny that Arceus and Giratina-O are better Defoggers in most cases, but sometimes you really need that extra moveslot on those two and Scizor isn't half bad at Defogging.
  10. TorchicBlaziken

    TorchicBlaziken

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    Considering Low Kick and Grass Knot, Light Metal might actually be a good Ability to use on Mega Scizor. With Light Metal, Scizor takes 80 BP damage from the two moves instead of 100. I don't know if that's any good, but it's not like you're going to attack with it without Mega Evolving, so it doesn't make a difference. Scyther is in Dream World so it's not incompatible with Superpower either.
  11. Haruno

    Haruno Sprouts > Kale
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    I'm going to ignore how not running technician means your best move (bullet punch) gets weaker by 50% and how it needs all the power it can get.

    Instead I'll focus on why you want to run light metal which is a terrible idea. You 4x resist grass knot so it's only users (thund/grasseus) won't dent you with it regardless but what's worse is that you threaten neither of them in the slightest since thund resists every move you have while grasseus outspeeds and burns you. So against grass knot users you take pitiful damage from the only move light metal helps for and you can't threaten them either. Now against low kick, there are also only teo users (Mega mewtwo X and blaziken) needless to say scizor gets fucked by blaziken so no point diving further there while mewtwoX just uses you as set up bait and proceeds to get free bulk ups.

    So overall light metal doesn't even help against the users of said weight moves and this is disregarding how bullet punch is scizors most important move and literally the only thing it has over genesect.
  12. TorchicBlaziken

    TorchicBlaziken

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    Um, Light Metal just turns into Technician when it Mega Evolves anyway, so I don't see a reason why not to use it on Mega Scizor.
  13. Haze Milotic

    Haze Milotic

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    Ha. You need to understand that what he's trying to say nicely is that Light Metal sucks and should never be used on a competitive set, especially in Ubers where, as Haruno said, Grass Knot and Low Kick are rarely, if ever, used. Technician is always preferred, even if it stays the same when you Mega Evolve, you get more usage out of it.
  14. Haruno

    Haruno Sprouts > Kale
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    You could bluff the choiceband scizor or whatnot I guess.
  15. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Actually, both abilities are useless on regular Scizor that hold Scizornite, but Light Metal is the less useless one. Scizor is always MEvolving the turn he gets to attack, which means that he will always have Technician upon attacking. However, having Light Metal to decrease Low Kick and Grass Knot damage as you switch in with regular Scizor is better than having effectively no ability before MEvolving, no matter how little damage those attacks do to Scizor.
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  16. Haruno

    Haruno Sprouts > Kale
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    It could be useful for bluffing being a cb set if you don't Mevo and could potentially nail an incoming setup sweeper trying to setup on the supposed banded bullet punch. n_n

    Also as far as calcs are concerned
    252+ SpA Thundurus Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 35-41 (10.1 - 11.9%) -- possible 9HKO
    252+ SpA Thundurus (Move 1) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 28-33 (8.1 - 9.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever

    252+ SpA Arceus-Grass Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 51-60 (14.8 - 17.4%) -- possible 6HKO
    252+ SpA Arceus-Grass (Move 1) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 40-48 (11.6 - 13.9%) -- possible 8HKO


    252+ Atk Blaziken Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 169-201 (49.1 - 58.4%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO
    252+ Atk Blaziken (Move 1) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 135-160 (39.2 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    252+ Atk Mega Mewtwo X Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 240-283 (69.7 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Mega Mewtwo X (Move 1) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 192-226 (55.8 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    The grass knot calcs are almost irrelevant since again, scizor isn't doing shit to either grasseus nor thundurus while in low kick's case, blaze is obviously ohko'ing scizor while mmx will use it as set up bait. So overall for both moves light metal is both unrealistic uses though technician could help catch some off guard n_n
  17. Ash Borer

    Ash Borer Throttle Chopper
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    scizor takes a bite out of grassceus with u-turn, it's a decent switch in considering many run defog and shit over WoW.

    That being said, again, it's mostly irrelevant. I'd run tech just incase I forget to click mega evo lel
  18. Haruno

    Haruno Sprouts > Kale
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    Outsped and burned translates to a near useless scizor in my book.
  19. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    You can't bluff shit as the calcs will show whether you are using Choice Band or not. Again, i didn't say that the damage reduction to Grass Knot or Low Kick makes any serious difference, but it's better to take at least a bit less damage from those attacks as you bring in Scizor before MEvolving than having practically no ability before MEvolving.
  20. Haruno

    Haruno Sprouts > Kale
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    Scizor loses to every mon that would realistically run grass knot/low kick and would be unable to threaten them in return. I also was referring to picking off a weakened mon with bp or whatnot without mega evolving and thus giving your opponent the impression your zor is banded sorry if that wasn't clear. Overall for mega zor though, both abilities are pretty useless though technician has more practical use.
  21. Hack

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    I think the whole debate is irrelevant af, sorry guys but there is no point caring about this at all

    you won't really switch into any GK users really so in reality the fact that you will take less damage before mega-evolving is irrelevant.
  22. Dice

    Dice what's a god to a nonbeliever
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    It's one of the few offensive ExtremeKiller checks which makes it very valuable in the meta. Fighteus being practically outclassed by Fairyceus among Gira-O being not as good as it was in BW stresses more offensive inclined teams for checks. I've been running almost max defense with minimal attack / SpDef investment to KO and live a few things with U-turn / Toxic / Bullet Punch / Roost @ Scizorite and I've found to be the most effective. Superpower didn't seem worth it as it doesn't KO ExtremeKiller and gives you -1 Def for it to kill you; Toxic nails common switch-ins like Ho-Oh which is cool. Also, Scizor serves as a decent Xerneas check which Skarm cannot boast along with U-turn shenanigans and such. It's definitely a mon worth trying out if you don't need your Mega-slot as it has relatively sturdy longetivity and can Toxic a shitton of Pokémon giving you an advantage. Max SpDef isn't as needed as it isn't a good Ghosteus check anymore and Ho-Oh / Yveltal can serve your role for that. Defensive is just too valuable for ExtremeKiller and Kanga that I wouldn't bother with the set listed in the OP. Plus, staying on Lando-T is cute.
  23. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
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    I updated the set in the OP to the one Dice was talking about as its definitely better in this metagame.
  24. Haze Milotic

    Haze Milotic

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    Is Knock Off (Move Tutor in B2W2) viable on Mega Scizor? I've been testing it out, and it works well in opinion. It works well in OU, because if we're being honest, Scizorite isn't going to be banned to Ubers.

    Scizor (M) @ Scizorite
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Knock Off
    - Bullet Punch
    - Defog
    - Roost
  25. Edgar

    Edgar Lordsquads,,
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    It's really good on Scizor, I've been using it a lot and it 2HKO's Aegislash on the switch in, even if they King's Shield afterwards. I don't know how to feel about that set though, I don't think it accomplishes much tbh.
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