Well with the way I've been using it this is primarily just a lead to pass the boosts to my sweeper (MEPinsir). I'm actually thinking about running poison jab on him just for that attack, I believe with smeargles low defenses that should be enough to OHKO him, if not then an adamant nature may prove more beneficial
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Pokémon Scolipede
- Thread starter TwoBit
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Not to undermine your victory, but allowing Smeargle to set up that much in the name of a Baton Pass seems a bit...extreme.
Glad it worked out for you (certainly proves that this can help sweepers get around Sticky Web), but I'm wondering how that matchup would have gone with a different setup lead. Or if your opponent had called your bluff and switched in an attacker instead of that last layer of Spikes. How does it handle leads that aren't quite as overspecialized as Smeargle?
As a primarily baton passer with the sword dance/megahorn/spikes/baton pass set, what's the reason to do attack evs over health or defense? Could Scolipede pull off weakness policy as an item or is that too gimmicky? Would you ever run poison spikes over spikes themselves or too situational?
Weakness Policy doesn't seem out of the question; Scolipede isn't that fragile (physically he's slightly sturdier than Starmie), he's got some common weaknesses, and he doesn't have a quad weakness to destroy him. I think the main argument for just using Swords Dance is the reliability for passing - and that's a damn strong argument. If WP were activated by Stealth Rock, I might be singing a different tune, but sadly that's not the case.
Toxic Spikes could conceivably work if your team had need for them, but regular Spikes have a more immediate effect and can work with a wider variety of playstyles.
Against Smeargle, you're supposed to attack on turn one, then switch to a spinner or a priority attacker. Or, if you see Smeargle on team preview, you don't lead with scolipede, you lead with someone who has Insomia or Lum Berry. As far as I'm concerned, most teams should have at least one pokemon with a lum berry on them for dealing the obvious obnoxious abundance of spore users. Works best if you've got priority or are simply very fast - Crobat's a great user of Lum Berry, for instance, and can gaunratee Smeargle won't do shit.
Scolipede suffers from similar issues to Ninjask - poor offensive coverage and mediocre defenses. I think it's misguided to try and use him as a baton passer lead, he's just way too damn predictable. Your opponent, if they have whirlwind or roar, will just bring that pokemon in, and undo all your stat boosting. Haze and Clear Smog are also pretty common, and then there's Topsy-Turvy to worry about now too...
If you're going to use Scolipede as a baton passer, you should save it for the mid game of the fight - preferably to augment a slow, physical mega pokemon like Charizard X, MMawile, MKhangaskhan, MPinsir, MScizor, or maybe MAmpharos. You get the idea. I think you really need to analyze your opponent before sending in someone like scoliopede, to find out what counters they might have to a baton pass strategy. People are pretty experienced from dealing with speed boost baton pass from dealing with Ninjask two generations ago.
Speedboost lead Scolipede definitely is better off as a physical attacker / hazard layer. If you don't see a spinner in team preview, get toxic spikes or spikes up. As a lead, I think you're best using...
Adamant, 252 Atk, 252 HP, 4 def
Earthquake
X-Scissor / Megahorn
Rock Slide / Swords Dance
Spikes / Toxic Spikes
I could potentially see him as being a good assault vest user, though, his coverage is kind of weak, he's fast enough, and got enough offensive power to be reasonably threatening.
I think his biggest Niche though, is this:
252 HP, some combination of 256 in SpD and Def
Infestation
Baton Pass
Swords Dance
Toxic Spikes / Protect / Iron Defense / Substitute
Get in, trap something good, get out with as many stat boosts as possible.
A pokemon like Scolipede is not greatly enhanced by black sludge / left overs, life orb, a choice item or even really focus sash. Stick with Lum Berry I think.
Actually, thinking it over some more, this is probably the most well rounded lead:
Lum Berry
252 HP
216 Atk or 216 Defense
40 Speed
Rock Slide
Earthquake / X-Scissor / Protect
Toxic Spikes / Swords Dance
Baton Pass
Take protect if you really covet passing speed boosts. Take X-scissor if you want high-damaging stab that's reliable. Always take Rock Slide, because a common switch in could easily be something like Talonflame, or hell, with how Defog works now, as a hazard user, you're going to need anti-flying.
As a speed boost user, you want to survive one turn. With 40 investment in speed though, you're gauranteed to outspeed non-scarf'd, non-mega pokemon on the beginning of the second turn. You'll outspeed almost anything on the third turn. In the case of Smeargle, you rock slide or X-Scissor it twice, negating the spore on turn one, then killing it outright on turn-two (they always have a focus sash). Other common leads like Skarmory are more annoying to deal with, as they could whirlwind your baton passes away - you should have a back-up lead in this case, or you should be willing to use someone with suction cups.
Take 216 in attack if your team needs someone quick with access to EQ, Rock Slide, or X-scissor. Take 216 in defense if you need a durable baton passer. Consider somebody else if you want to endure special attacks and baton pass stat boosts, I don't see that happening with Scolipede. One flamethrower and it's toast.
Scolipede suffers from similar issues to Ninjask - poor offensive coverage and mediocre defenses. I think it's misguided to try and use him as a baton passer lead, he's just way too damn predictable. Your opponent, if they have whirlwind or roar, will just bring that pokemon in, and undo all your stat boosting. Haze and Clear Smog are also pretty common, and then there's Topsy-Turvy to worry about now too...
If you're going to use Scolipede as a baton passer, you should save it for the mid game of the fight - preferably to augment a slow, physical mega pokemon like Charizard X, MMawile, MKhangaskhan, MPinsir, MScizor, or maybe MAmpharos. You get the idea. I think you really need to analyze your opponent before sending in someone like scoliopede, to find out what counters they might have to a baton pass strategy. People are pretty experienced from dealing with speed boost baton pass from dealing with Ninjask two generations ago.
Speedboost lead Scolipede definitely is better off as a physical attacker / hazard layer. If you don't see a spinner in team preview, get toxic spikes or spikes up. As a lead, I think you're best using...
Adamant, 252 Atk, 252 HP, 4 def
Earthquake
X-Scissor / Megahorn
Rock Slide / Swords Dance
Spikes / Toxic Spikes
I could potentially see him as being a good assault vest user, though, his coverage is kind of weak, he's fast enough, and got enough offensive power to be reasonably threatening.
I think his biggest Niche though, is this:
252 HP, some combination of 256 in SpD and Def
Infestation
Baton Pass
Swords Dance
Toxic Spikes / Protect / Iron Defense / Substitute
Get in, trap something good, get out with as many stat boosts as possible.
A pokemon like Scolipede is not greatly enhanced by black sludge / left overs, life orb, a choice item or even really focus sash. Stick with Lum Berry I think.
Actually, thinking it over some more, this is probably the most well rounded lead:
Lum Berry
252 HP
216 Atk or 216 Defense
40 Speed
Rock Slide
Earthquake / X-Scissor / Protect
Toxic Spikes / Swords Dance
Baton Pass
Take protect if you really covet passing speed boosts. Take X-scissor if you want high-damaging stab that's reliable. Always take Rock Slide, because a common switch in could easily be something like Talonflame, or hell, with how Defog works now, as a hazard user, you're going to need anti-flying.
As a speed boost user, you want to survive one turn. With 40 investment in speed though, you're gauranteed to outspeed non-scarf'd, non-mega pokemon on the beginning of the second turn. You'll outspeed almost anything on the third turn. In the case of Smeargle, you rock slide or X-Scissor it twice, negating the spore on turn one, then killing it outright on turn-two (they always have a focus sash). Other common leads like Skarmory are more annoying to deal with, as they could whirlwind your baton passes away - you should have a back-up lead in this case, or you should be willing to use someone with suction cups.
Take 216 in attack if your team needs someone quick with access to EQ, Rock Slide, or X-scissor. Take 216 in defense if you need a durable baton passer. Consider somebody else if you want to endure special attacks and baton pass stat boosts, I don't see that happening with Scolipede. One flamethrower and it's toast.
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Damn. I really need to stop getting excited over things that seem borderline rules breaking. Oh well. Infestation is still an interesting option. Since it loves protect to stall speed boost anyway, catching infestation on a switch can (which may be boosted by a binding band), can cost someone 1/4 of their health. This could get even higher on a stall team and Scolipede can pass iron defence or lay either spikes types for them. You also can completely invest in defence EVs to survive long enough to baton pass.
Scolipede's probably better off acting as a swords dance passer/sweeper.
I personally prefer the idea of a sweeper, although Baton Pass is basically it's greatest asset, since it has access to Speed Boost & SD. But still, I like the idea of a SD/EQ/Megahorn/Poison Jab or A.Tail set with either Jolly or Adamant. Sure, it's hard to set it up, but if he does late game and it's counters are removed or weakened, then it's goin to get really ugly for the opponent.
How do you propose to trap something when they can switch to their best bet on the turn you use Infestation? I suppose people might attack for fear of letting you get Substitute, but when Infiltrators and PHazer are more popular these days, it's just not looking like it'll work against most things.
Yeah... There's a lot of problems with the plan. But the biggest weakness is prankster taunters preventing you from baton passing, which is the weakness of all baton passing Scolipede. Especially when the cream of the crop are Tornadus (who has a type advantage) and Sabeleye (priority Will-o-wisp).
At the very worst, it's a switch war that you should come out of on top as your opponent can't double switch with Scolipede and you can take just over a 1/4 or 1/3 of something's health with the infestation, at best your opponent lets Scolipede do its thing and you win because baton pass. The thing could have leftovers, but you could have arena traps so that sorta evens out, especially if it includes stealth rock. Answers to Roost, Defog and Taunt Tornadus will have to lie somewhere else on the team I guess.
Hm... I'm liking a potential coupling of Scoliopede and MegaMedicham; 100 base speed augmented by baton pass is nothing to cough at, and after a boost or two, you could even pass to an *adamant* mega medicham for a sweep. That's over 700 attack, and not choice locked, along with either the safe drain punch or the insanely powerful 738 Atk Hi Jump Kick (risky, but satisfying... so satisfying) along with coverage like the elemental punches or zen headbutt.
Unfortunately, this also revolves around killing Talonflame first, who can easily prio-bravebird/acrobatics the entire world to death.
Unfortunately, this also revolves around killing Talonflame first, who can easily prio-bravebird/acrobatics the entire world to death.
I don't see a reason why to use Infestation on Scolipede. He can't make that much of a good use of it, and he doesn't have any bulk to pull it off, imo. People will try bringin in a counter or outright hit Scolipede hard so to prevent it from stayin in and accumulatin boosts, expecting Baton Pass shenanigans, anyway.
Alot of the new fairy types happen to be rather frail on the physical side so, guess that even Megahorn could harm them sufficiently.
That being said, for a Baton Pass set, I'd go with something like .. SD/Megahorn/EQ or Protect (depending on it being an offensive or a more dedicated BP set)/BP. As for a spiker, guess it should go like Spikes/Megahord/EQ or SD/Baton Pass with maybe a sash if you want it as a lead. Personal opinion, that is.
Also, please try to refrain yourself from multiple posts in succession without someone having replied, there's an edit option right below your post if you wish to add up to what you said.
My bad kinda new here. Sorry for the multiple posts in succesion. Thank you! Now i can get to training!:)
The Scolipede I've been using to great success (and have others who have credited me for it) is as follows. I haven't seen this exact build out there yet, although maybe I haven't been looking hard enough.
B@st@rd Scolipede
Scolipede (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Protect
- Swords Dance
- Baton Pass
With maxed bulk, defense, and decent defensive typing, he can take a few hits before going down. Earthquake has surprised many an Aegislash that has attempted to simultaneously set up on me. I can use Protect on the first turn to make sure I get a speed boost under my belt, sometimes consecutive Protects if I'm feeling lucky. When at full health, Scolipede almost always gets at least +2x Atk/+2x Spd to Baton Pass over to my sweepers (Weakness Policy Dragonite or Mega-Kangaskhan, in my case).
B@st@rd Scolipede
Scolipede (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Protect
- Swords Dance
- Baton Pass
With maxed bulk, defense, and decent defensive typing, he can take a few hits before going down. Earthquake has surprised many an Aegislash that has attempted to simultaneously set up on me. I can use Protect on the first turn to make sure I get a speed boost under my belt, sometimes consecutive Protects if I'm feeling lucky. When at full health, Scolipede almost always gets at least +2x Atk/+2x Spd to Baton Pass over to my sweepers (Weakness Policy Dragonite or Mega-Kangaskhan, in my case).
Interesting that you're not running any speed EVs or even a speed boosting nature. I can see why, speedboost + protect off of raw base 112 speed results in it never really becoming relevant... In theory. But what I'd like to know is, is there any reason to bother investing in speed at all?The Scolipede I've been using to great success (and have others who have credited me for it) is as follows. I haven't seen this exact build out there yet, although maybe I haven't been looking hard enough.
B@st@rd Scolipede
Scolipede (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Protect
- Swords Dance
- Baton Pass
With maxed bulk, defense, and decent defensive typing, he can take a few hits before going down. Earthquake has surprised many an Aegislash that has attempted to simultaneously set up on me. I can use Protect on the first turn to make sure I get a speed boost under my belt, sometimes consecutive Protects if I'm feeling lucky. When at full health, Scolipede almost always gets at least +2x Atk/+2x Spd to Baton Pass over to my sweepers (Weakness Policy Dragonite or Mega-Kangaskhan, in my case).
Not that I can see. If you want a swords dance, you'll have to leave yourself open to at least one hit anyway, and once you're at +2 speed (1 from SD and one from protect) nothing's going to outspeed you except for priority. Better to invest in bulk to ensure that you'll survive the hit.
^^ This.
Bulk + a Focus Sash ensure you'll survive (at least) one good hit, often more. A fully bulked Scolipede is surprisingly resilient.
Well, think of it this way. With STAB factored in, X-Scissor has a base power of 120. UnSTABbed Megahorn has that amount, and 180 with STAB factored in. That's like .. X-Scizzors basically deal about 67% of the damage Megahorn would deal, and the 85% accouracy isn't THAT bad, unless if you are that unlucky. As far as I know, if a poke that gets stab on bug moves has access to Megahorn, it should generally go with that. It's usually worth the small risk because it's that much stronger.
For a different example, +1 Dragon Claw is as strong as unboosted Outrage, and these two moves have similar base power to these two moves respectively. Your choice, of course, but my belief is that Megahorn is worth the small chance to miss, cause it's much stronger.
True, but I run the Focus Pass set, so if I'm attacking, more often than not it's to kill something post-Sash. What are all of Scolipede's checks anyway? Maybe (since he's set-up fodder), I should focus on a move that counters his checks instead of something that counters my team's counters since he might not have the luxury of constantly swapping in to kill shit. Or I could keep a move that counters my team's counters and just bring him in for a quick unboosted kill after the initial Pass. Oh the options and only one moveslot. :(
And oddly enough, because Megahorn is so prevalent, people are often leery about swapping anything Dark-typed (say, Prankster Sableye) in lest they eat a SE and one-shot in exchange for the Taunt, which you'd just switch out of anyway for later. That EQ usually does unpleasant things to any second-guessers, and it bitch-slaps Aegislash nicely, especially since you can generally trade hits with one.
I guess it depends on your team.I mean if you have a team that don't run bug type moves but needs the coverage,use it,same goes for Earthquake. For exemple,if I use an Aegislash and is passing the SD+SB to him you have to be safe first,against a mon that can fall for your move,that way your Aegishash won't take a hit.if you can defeat the oponent with out the passing why not do it? That's the point of a good batom passer for me. You can pass at all times,but is not forced to it by any means,and Scolipede can do that.
Also,if he is your first mon you should run focus sash but not protect,and in this metagame is safer to run a poison move then a bug type move,freacking pixies.That's of course if you only need one SB on the next mon. A mega garchomp needs two SB(needs protect+sash),but an Aegislash only needs 1(keep the sash but you get another move,a poison move for exemple to take out Togekiss?)
I should probably put it in my sig, but basically I have Megaken (1 Fire, 1 Fighting), Gengar (1 Electric, 1 Fairy, 1 Ghost, 1 Poison), Cloyster (1 Rock, 1 Ice), Aegislash (1 Fighting, 1 Steel, 2 Ghost [1 Physical 1 Special]), and Gliscor (1 Ground). So Poison, Bug, or Ground you think? My pass targets are mainly Blaziken and Cloyster. Gliscor can hugely benefit from the Speed and Aegislash can hugely benefit from the attack while the speed kinda' helps.
So, is a defense boosting nature, or a speed boosting nature better for the baton passer/support variant? Seems to me like it might really benefit from the defensive nature, since a combination of speed boost+ protect ought to give it some longevity on the first turn or so. At the same time, the OP suggests running Jolly natures for all variants except possibly the cleaner/sweeper roll. So on a statistical basis, which nature is more reliable?
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