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Scouting Legion [Peaked #1]

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Frozen Fate, Jul 11, 2013.

  1. Frozen Fate

    Frozen Fate

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    40
    [​IMG]
    Introduction
    Hello Smogon, I've taken a small break from Pokemon as of late but returned to get some more UU in before XY hit. This has by far been my most successful team to date and it's honestly been a lot of fun to use. Originally this was made just to test out two key Pokemon Yanmega/Honchkrow and slowly evolved into something better. It's been quite successful on the ladder with a 26-2 W/L on my main account and 15-0 W/L on my secondary account. I ended up with 2223 ACRE and honestly I can go further but after playing around 50ish matches I'm a little sick of it to be honest.

    What I attribute to it's success is that this team is like a rolling pin, there is no need for any of my Pokemon to set-up. Infact my main sweepers get stronger passively. Most if not all threats in UU are covered to some extent. All in all this has been a great team to use and hopefully you guys can make it better because it ain't perfect by any means.

    [​IMG]

    Overview
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Team Building Process

    In-Depth
    [​IMG]
    Rhyperior[​IMG]

    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Solid Rock
    EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 244 SpD
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
    • Rock Blast
    • Earthquake
    • Stealth Rock
    • Roar
    Rhyperior is occasionally my lead but it really depends on my opponents team. He serves as a check to numerous physical threats here and gets my rocks up for the rest of my team which is pivotal to my team's success. He can be used a phaser to get rid of anything pesky that tries to setup on my team and STAB QuakeEdge is just nice for coverage. I fall back on him to tank V-Creates, Flare Blitzes as Blastoise is honestly more important most of the time. He's also my main counter to Togekiss and that thing can smear my team is played right.
    [​IMG]
    Blastoise[​IMG]

    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Torrent
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
    • Rapid Spin
    • Scald
    • Toxic
    • Roar
    With such an SR weak team a spinner is necessary and Blastoise is just so reliable. Granted he sucks as a bulky Water (Arcanine LO does like 55% with Wild Charge) but he can take some hits and he's probably the best UU spinner due to nice typing. He also functions are a secondary phazer for anything that wants to setup. As long as Blastoise can spin away hazards and if the opponent's hazard setters are down then usually I can sacrifice him as he's expendable at that point. Apart from spinning, he really does just check threats and either Toxic/Roar them out for later.

    [​IMG]
    Chandelure [​IMG]

    Item: Choice Specs
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SpAtk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    • Overheat
    • Energy Ball
    • Shadow Ball
    • Trick
    Chandelure is simply a nuke, Overheat basically destroys anything that doesn't resist and sends even Umberon reeling. He serves as both a spin-blocker and a wallbreaker. I use him mainly to soften up the other team with Overheat/Shadow Ball and later he can Trick his Specs onto something in order to get my final sweepers in easier. His mere presence on the team is a huge boon as not only does the opponent like to keep their Fire resist healthy and thus play more conservatively but they'll also be less keen to throw around High Jump Kicks/CC early game which makes spinning easier for Blastoise and prediction easier with Snorlax/Rhyperior. He's good as a spin-blocker because no spin blocker can take a hit from him and remain healthy.
    Energy Ball deals ~80% to Standard 252 HP/4 SpD Blastoise
    Shadow Ball deals ~100% to Standard 252 HP/252 SpD Claydol
    Overheat deals ~100% to Standard 252 HP/4 SpD Hitmontop

    [​IMG]
    Snorlax [​IMG]

    Item: Choice Band
    Ability: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 Atk / 52 Def / 200 SpD / 4 Spe
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
    • Return
    • Earthquake
    • Pursuit
    • Superpower
    Snorlax is just awesome. CBLax is quite bulky and hits hard, he's my main answer to 75% of the special threats in the tier. Other then that he basically checks stuff and smashes holes in the opponent's team midgame to make Yanmega & Honchkrow's job easier. I usually try conserve him because he's so vital in my team's defensive core but he can sacrificed if need be to get my final sweepers in safely. He also lures in MienShao and Heracross which occasionally can be an easy switch-in for Yanmega to come on and nab a Speed boost. He also breaks special walls in two like Umberon and fellow Snorlax who don't expect Superpower.
    [​IMG]
    Yanmega [​IMG]

    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Speed Boost
    EVs: 252 SpAtk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Nature: Modest (+SpAtk, -Atk)
    • Bug Buzz
    • Air Slash
    • Protect
    • Giga Drain
    Tinted Lens Yanmega is better...said no one ever.
    Jokes aside, Yanmega is my clean-up sweeper and forms part of my passive sweeping core. Everything else is basically support for him. And yeah Yanmega is awesome because it simply needs 2 turns to outspeed everything in the entire tier and apart from a SR weak has some fairly useful 4x resistances (Grass/Fighting/Bug). STAB Bug Buzz and Air Slash (flinchax o_O ) basically wreck most of UU especially with hazards and prior damage. Honestly people always think Specs when they see this and switch out letting me nab a speed boost then I can proceed to hit them with whatever I wanted.
    [​IMG]
    Honchkrow [​IMG]

    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Moxie
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
    • Sucker Punch
    • Superpower
    • Brave Bird
    • Night Slash
    Honchkrow is so underrated it's not funny. I can't count the amount of times I've taken 3-4 Pokemon out with him. Granted good players have ways around him (prediction/Substitute/status) but Honchkrow is just a mind-game Pokemon. Will I Sucker Punch or will I go for a STAB Brave Bird? Night Slash is cool because it's more reliable but also tricks the opponent into thinking I don't have Sucker Punch only for me to bring it out later. If I can nab one KO with him I can usually take out 1-2 Pokemon, it's just nabbing the first KO can be difficult. Problem is he's so fragile I usually have to sacrifice something to bring him in but honestly it's all worth it.

    Importable


    Conclusion
    And there you have it. Take the importable and give it a whirl. I promise you it's fairly good or at least I've found it to be fairly good. It's balance but offensively-orientated and I think a combination of immediate power and unpredictability makes this team click. Just watch out for Togekiss, especially the bulky NP variants. Also if you want to see some replays of the team in-action then click here. These were 3 random matches.
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu-39164740
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu-39163518
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu-39163014
    Usatoday and scotti like this.
  2. Trainer Au

    Trainer Au Insert custom title here

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    Messages:
    269
    It is better >.>.

    You are almost completely 6-0'd by Offensive Togekiss, with a Timid nature it outspeeds everything on your team bar Mega and Chandy (it ties with Chandy) and it flinches everything to death. However it can be RK'd by Honchkrow and Mega if it has prior damage.

    Shaymin looks like a threat as well, it naturally outspeeds your whole team and can OHKO or 2HKO your whole team (save for Snorlax) depending on it's coverage.

    I'm also skeptical on how well your team handles the many fighting types in the tier, your resists are swiftly taken out by Stone edge and then something like CS mienshao can OHKO or 2HKO your whole team.

    All of these can be more or less dealt with by using a Zapdos, but a problem arises that you have a lot of Stealth Rock weaknesses (seriously half of your team is weak to SR, one being x4 weak).

    On the topic of Stealth Rocks you should put Foresight>Toxic on Blastoise just because spinning is very important for you.

    That's all I gotta say, hope I helped, GL.
  3. Frozen Fate

    Frozen Fate

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    40
    Offensive Togekiss is OHKO'ed by Chandelure Overheat after SR, granted it's a speed tie so it's an iffy method. I usually have to rely on Rhyperior to Rock Blast it to death although that too is unreliable. Togekiss is a massive threat and yeah I basically have to rely on smacking it down until I can kill it.

    Shaymin, eh not really. Yanmega can OHKO with Bug Buzz after SR (even without it I believe), Snorlax can tank 1-2 Seed Flares and smack it back with Return or Honchkrow can revenge it if it's at around 55-60%.

    Yanmega can outspeed and KO basically any Fighting type after a Speed boost. Blastoise can deal with a Fighting type if it's in good health. Chandelure can come in on predicted HJK/CC. Rhyperior can take a CC/HJK unless it's something like CBHeracross.

    Zapdos would be nice I admit but who to replace is the problem...also nah Toxic messes up spinblockers anyway so I like to have that status there.

    Cheers :cool:
  4. Trainer Au

    Trainer Au Insert custom title here

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    Messages:
    269
    Offensive Kiss carries Grass Knot, your plan with rhyp won't work. If you want to rely on a speed tie to beat a threat then w/e.

    Why would someone leave a shaymin in on Mega? On lax? (lax can be 2hko'd if they get the spdef drop which is very possible). Honchkrow can revenge it but not switch in: 252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Honchkrow: 177-209 (51.9 - 61.29%) -- guaranteed 2HKO then you lose a threat pretty much especially if they have rocks up b/c you couldn't beat their spin blocker since all you did was toxic it and not foresight.

    Fighting types are the least of your worries but they still need to be checked, what I meant by saying they were a problem is that you have nothing to switch in on a fighting hit (switching in your resists is pretty obvious and they can be KO'd next turn if the user isn't choiced, though that only applys to chandy). The fighting problem isn't that big, but well played could prove to be an issue, Zapdos would help.

    I suggest you rethink your offensive core as all are weak to rocks and there are times when you can't spin.
  5. Frozen Fate

    Frozen Fate

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    40
    Pardon me for saying this but I have never seen Offensive Togekiss run Grass Knot, it's usually Roost / NP / Aura Sphere / Air Slash. I agree that Togekiss is a huge problem, it's just I'd rather not change the team structure because it ruins it both syngery-strategy wise. Problem is, I can't patch it up with my current Pokemon >:|

    The more they switch Shaymin out the closer it is until I can revenge kill it, not to mention Seed Flare's accuracy is very iffy from past experience. If they switch Shaymin out from Yanmega I can predict their switch-in while nabbing a speed boost, it's not all bad. LO + SR kills Shaymin very quickly if they keep switching it out.

    Foresight is nice but a Toxiced spin blocker is not going to last long with SR and other Pokemon attacking it.

    I dislike everything being SR weak but it's such a strong offensive core I don't know what to do.
  6. GenXXZ

    GenXXZ

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    281
    Wow... You're definitely getting a lot of criticism, especially considering that your number one on the ladder with ACRE score 95 points higher than number two. You're obviously a very experienced and skilled player, congratulations on the peak and I hope your success with this team continues! It's always good to see Honchkrow love and Yanmega definitely needs more use than it has been getting; it was in OU last gen for a reason.

    This is a personal preference of mine but I prefer Fire Blast on Specs Chandelures that pack Trick. That way you can actually do something for more than one turn after tricking. I also suggest this because you portray him as a wallbreaker; in order to properly wallbreak, at least in my opinion, a powerful and reliable STAB option is better than one with such a sharp recoil. Besides, we're talking about Specs Chandelure. It's basically an atomic bomb in a lamp suit and Overheat can be just plain overkill sometimes. Then again, you do have a commanding lead on the ladder so you're obviously doing something right.

    Also this is pretty minor but, considering that you have only one attacking move on Blastoise, perhaps Rain Dish might be a better option. You might get the upper hand on a Kingdra or something, or even Tornadus.

    Speaking of Kingdra, I'm actually rather curious on how you deal with it. Honchcrow can't revenge kill it if it's got a sub up and you have no scarfer.


    That's all I have to say. Again, congratulations.


    E: If you're that pissed off about having to switch into Blastoise all the time to spin, then why don't you just run Xatu instead? Magic Bounce is very effective at keeping rocks off your side of the field and Xatu can actually do something for your team by providing dual screens.

    E2: Togekiss definitely runs Grass Knot... Not everybody follows the smogon sets. Even on PS.
  7. PTJon7

    PTJon7

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    553
    GenXXZ the account has played a total of 25 battles. The 3 replays posted were all against pretty poor players as well. The ladder reset has made it much much easier to rank highly in UU, new people rocket up there every day.

    The SR weakness is bad, Au is right. It is really easy to stop Blastoise from Rapid Spinning, and even if it does you've just granted the opposing team a free turn to do whatever, most likely KO Blastoise because its a pretty poor wall. Your entire offensive core is weak to SR which limits them a whole lot. A dedicated revenge killer that isnt weak to SR replacing Yanmega would be a good start, maybe something like Flygon or Mienshao that can gain momentum for the team by U-Turn.

    EDIT: That came across pretty rudely, I hope I didn't cause offense Frozen Fate.
  8. GenXXZ

    GenXXZ

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    281


    Aw shucks, I wasn't aware that the ladder had reset. I don't play on PS that often so I wouldn't know, my mistake >.<
  9. Lovelace

    Lovelace

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2013
    Messages:
    111
    Now this team looks great but as an aside I'd like to comment that it seems like a lot of really high placing teams have somewhat glaring flaws to certain Pokemon and well rounded teams with which few people can find any glaring flaws don't place very well. I am relatively new to this game and even newer to this community but increasingly I feel like we should reexamine the ladder and what it takes to be successful on it. I feel like when we make RMTs we make a lot of assumptions that may not be correct; like a lot of rates focus on being able to beat everything possible with the additional assumption that you are playing good players. Perhaps the nature of ladder is not to make what is in our current definition a "good team" but rather one that reliably smacks down the average teams that fill the ladder. Really, where do you see offensive Togekiss, despite it probably being a great mon? When do you see other great Pokemon like mixed Victini? Even in the case of great Pokemon like Frosslass aren't they typically played sub optimally, always going out first, taunting on your Rhyperior as you Rock Blast, Ice Beaming on your Crobat as you 2HKO?

    So trainer Au, it is a good and smart observation that this team is weak to offensive Togekiss but perhaps it is misleading to direct Frozen Fate to move resources away from what has been successful in order to protect against a niche case? It is not incorrect to saying that doing so would improve the team, but it is perhaps also correct to say that doing would make this team less effective at what is the central goal of laddering- getting a high ranking.

    In essence I'm saying this: it is better to straight up lose against a legitimate but rare threat such as offensive Togekiss than to have even a slight weakness against some thing dumb like Ash's anime team of Pikachu, Lapras, and all those because really what are you more likely to see on the ladder?

    Sorry for the off topic rant and mods feel free to move/delete but with Molk's RU team, discussion about Charizards in Uber, current UU suspecting and everything I've been thinking a lot.
  10. Moose V

    Moose V

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    540
    I don't mean to take away from your peak but what the guys above me are saying about the ladder is right. The laddering system on PS is HUGELY fucked up right now and although you may be #1 in acre, your glicko 2 and GXE are those of an 1850 acre player so its a little hard to accurately judge your skill.

    Anyways I have a few tips for you:
    1) Totally agree with foresight on blastoise cuz you need those rocks out of there and damn quickly.
    2) Another thing that seems to give your team some trouble is zapdos. Any set of zap totally walls yanmega and honch, it can potentially ohko blastoise and chandy after rocks, cripples rhyperior if it has hp grass or toxic and wears down lax eventually because lax lacks (haha lax lacks) recovery. Along with the other pokes that above users mentioned, it kinda makes me think you might wanna replace offensive pressure with some defense. I don't see chandy as all that necessary to the team (feel free to disagree with me here) and I think specs or sub CM Raikou might help you out, especially with toge and zap not to mention getting rid of a sr weakness. If you want to keep chandelure, chandy needs fire blast over overheat so it can 2hko umbreon. Also the -2 could give some of the aforementioned threats a free switch in.
    3) Is there a specific reason why you're running roar on rhyp? If not, let me try to convince you to run dragon tail. 1- Rhyp is tied for highest attack stat in the whole tier, dragon tail can actually do a considerable amount of damage. 2-Gives you a move to hit flygon with. 3-You already have roar on blastoise 4-Shuts down kingdra switch-ins 5-breaks sashes


    Hope this helped!

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