Screen-Hax

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Sacaen, Oct 4, 2012.

  1. Sacaen

    Sacaen

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2012
    Messages:
    87
    So I have made heavy adjustments to this team. The design of the team is the same (dual screens to facilitate sweeping), but in the end the only 'mon that remained the same was Haxorus. Since then I think the team has improved alot, but maybe it could still be improved some more.

    For reference, this was the original team:
    Show Hide
    So, this is my first RMT, however I have been playing semi-competitvely ingame for a long time and have been lurking around on Smogon's Database for just as long. Admittedly I am relatively new to battling online.

    The team I have been working on is centered around using Dual Screens to set up double dance Haxorus. It is similar in practice to an ingame team I used, however most pokemon on the team are different. Behind dual screens Haxorus sets up very easily even in front of Ice type attacks and is bulky enough to take a hit from priority attacks. Alot of people simply aren't prepared to face a +1spd/+1-3atk Haxorus behind dual screens.

    The Team

    [​IMG]
    Azelf @ Light Clay
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP, 252 Spd
    Nature: Timid (+spd, -atk)
    -Stealth Rock
    -Light Screen
    -Reflect
    -Taunt

    Azelf is both my lead and set up for Haxorus. I chose Azelf over other dual screeners because of it's unique movepool and speed. Azelf can easily set up screens to absorb hits from attacking leads and taunt the majority of other lead to prevent them from setting up (bar Espeon and Xatu).

    Common Leads:
    -Against Rotom-W, Ninetales, and (nonscarf)Politoed azelf can lightscreen up to absorb hits, and proceed to set up a second screen or stealth rock.
    -Reflect against Tyranitar and Scizor. Azelf attracts alot of Pursuit which allows it to fully set up then suicide for Haxorus which Pursuit cannot touch.
    -Ferrothorn, Forretress, Deoxys-D, Donphan, Hippowdon, Skarmory, and Mew get stopped cold by Azelf's speedy taunt.

    Problematic Leads:
    -Espeon and Xatu limit me to setting up just Lightscreen and Reflect, however more of the issue is they usually set up their own screens which can make Haxorus's life difficult.
    -Faster taunting leads and prankster taunters completely shut down Azelf. (Sableye, Whimiscott, Aerodactyl)
    -Faster/Choice scarf attacking leads that can OHKO Azelf before it sets up anything. (Choice Scarf Politoed being the most prominent does minimum 94% with hydropump, among others)


    [​IMG]
    Haxorus @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 32 hp, 252 atk, 226 spd,
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
    -Outrage
    -Earthquake
    -Dragon Dance
    -Swords Dance

    Haxorus being the main focus and sweeper of my team usually comes in after Azelf sets up. Haxorus was chosen over Dragonite, Salamence, or other Dragons mostly due to only being 2x weak to ice meaning he can set up on non stab icebeams behind lightscreen or take Mamoswine's Iceshard behind Reflect, as well as his enormous attack stat. Most things that stay in on azelf switch out when Haxorus switches in, allowing him to set up Dragon Dance, and against stall/bulky teams he can usually easily set up Swords Dance as well. Haxorus OHKOs or 2HKOs nearly everything after a dragon dance and will even plow through the likes of Skarmory, Heatran, Forretress, and Ferrothorn after a second boost from Swords Dance. Lum berry gives Haxorus the extra turn it needs to get the extra swords dance boost to go through stall teams or at the very least cures it's confusion to fully sweep offensive teams. Roar and Whirlwind from Hippowdon and Skarmory respectively give Haxorus the most trouble other than an untimely crit.

    [​IMG]
    Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 HP
    Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    -Flash Cannon
    -Thunderbolt
    -Hidden Power Fire
    -Volt Switch

    Magnezone functions as my steel remover as well as a revenge killer. While it may seem odd, Magnezone only helps Haxorus sweep about half the time, as Haxorus at +3 will still 2HKO through even the most bulky Steel physical walls. An early ferrothorn or forretress are usually dealt with by Azelf's taunt, and if they switch in after Haxorus is in he will already be setting up. On the other hand Magnezone helps remove any steel types left over if Haxorus's sweep is interrupted or prevented so that Latios can help clean up with Draco Meteor late game. Magnezone is also fully capable at removing non steel threats as well late game thanks to it's choice scarf. It also takes the ice and dragon type attacks aimed at Latios and to a lesser extent, Haxorus.

    [​IMG]
    Latios @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Spe, 252 SpA, 4 HP
    Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    -Draco Meteor
    -Surf
    -Hidden Power Fire
    -Trick

    Latios serves a number of purposes. It cleans up late game after Steels have been removed with it's ungodly powerful specs Draco Meteor, OHKOing most things not named Chansey, Blissey, Tyranitar, or the like. It takes fire attacks aimed at Genesect and Fire, Ground, and Fighting attacks aimed at Magnezone. And finally offers as a good counter to many walls with Trick. While Trick generally works better with Scarf, I was not achieving a number of important OHKOs without the boost from Specs.

    [​IMG]
    Genesect @ Life Orb
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 SpD
    Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    -Thunderbolt
    -Ice Beam
    -Flamethrower
    -Rock Polish

    Genesect is my secondary set up sweeper and usually comes in for a second sweep if Haxorus doesn't finish everything. Genesect has really great coverage and can hit alot of threats super effectively. Being a secondary sweeper, typically after Haxorus goes down, Genesect often finds itself stuck against special walls that it cannot touch. With Haxorus being my only Physical attacker, the only way to deal with special walls at this point is Latios coming in with Trick. Genesect also has trouble with faster sweepers that can kill it before it can set up rock polish (of which there are many). This could be alleviated with a Choice Scarf however being able to switch moves with genesects awesome coverage is too hard to pass up.

    I would like some opinions on other options to potentially replace Genesect, prefferably a pokemon that is bulky enough to take advantage of Azelf's dual screens and quickly set up as well as having access to a priority move. (lack of priority is a major hole in my team). Scizor used to be on my team before Genesect, and I might give him a try again considering I have made other changes to the team as well. I was also considering Metagross and Lucario, although I worry about the former's ability to net reliable KOs and the latter's frailness even behind dual screens. I used to use Cloyster as my other setup sweeper but overall he was far too vulnerable to special attacks even behind light screen and massively weak to priority.


    [​IMG]
    Ditto @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Imposter
    EVs: 252 HP, 252 SpD
    Nature: Sassy (+SpD, -Spe)
    -Transform

    Ditto's spot originally belonged to Cloyster, however Cloyster's role was given to Genesect because of it's frailness. Bringing in Ditto has netted me alot of wins that I would have otherwise lost. Being able to counter opposing set up sweepers and priority users is very important as late game without Ditto my team lacks significant speed and has zero priority of it's own. Ditto's role on the team is mostly glue, to hold it together after Haxorus goes down so I don't lose momentum.


    A Final look:
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]


    Hopefully I formatted everything right and explained myself well enough. Really hoping for a good genesect replacement, but any other criticism/suggestions are very welcome. Thanks for your time.


    Team building process:
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Originally the team started out with Haxorus and Azelf. Haxorus being a terrifying sweeper capable of plowing through even the likes of skarmory if set up properly. Azelf gave Haxorus the turns it needed to set up.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Magnezone was the next obvious choice being able to remove steels that came in on Haxorus. However Magnezone's usage was severely limited as a +3 attack Haxorus could still 2HKO Skarm, Ferro, Heatran, and Forretress. Although it was still a nice revenge killer if Haxorus got killed.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Latios and Genesect were added to clean up after Haxorus went down, and Ditto was added as my primary revenge killer to sweepers that managed to set up on me. To be completely honest, the team was moderately successful, but the team really lacked synergy and was more or less thrown together rather hastily.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Thanks to PK Gaming and Tabuu I made some great changes to the team. Latios became my secondary dual screener and Haxorus dropped Swords Dance for Taunt. Both of these changes slightly slowed down the team but overall made my team significantly more consistant and successful. Heatran replaced Magnezone as my revenge killer and also carried Sunny Day to help against Rain. Dragonite was added as as my secondary sweeper and combos very well with Haxorus checking different types of threats and wearing down eachother's counters. Finally Scizor was added as a bulky set up sweeper able to set up where Dragonite or Haxorus could not as well as fixing my lack of priority hole along with Dragonite.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Latios was eventually replaced by Cresselia. While Latios is without a doubt a very potent dual screener, it lacked synergy with Azelf, offering no capabilities to set up on things that Azelf could not. Heatran was also having issues with a choice scarf. While Scarf Heatran by itself was very unpredictable, once the surprise factor was revealed he became easily walled by levitaters/fliers, opposing heatran, and pretty much anything that could take a fire type attack. He was switched to a Sunny Day set with Air Balloon and has become much better at combating rain and also as my premier Garchomp counter now that it has been unbanned.
    [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Finally Espeon replaced Azelf. Again, not that Azelf was having difficulties setting up it's screens, preventing lead set up sweepers, and occassionally setting up Stealth Rock of it's own, it mainly came down to the unpredictability of Deoxys-D that pushed me to switch. Azelf could beat Deoxys-D about 50% of the time however it required very lucky prediction and often resulted in eating a stealth rock. Espeon also works extremely well as a lead partner for Cresselia. Cresselia easily sets up screens on every attacking lead out there, and cripples the majority of them (sans ground types) with thunder wave. Espeon can then switch in on non attacking leads that try to cripple, taunt, or set up hazards on Cresselia.


    In depth look at the team:

    [​IMG]
    Primary Sweeper
    Haxorus @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 32 Hp, 252 Atk, 224 Spe,
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
    -Outrage
    -Earthquake
    -Dragon Dance
    -Taunt

    Haxorus is the star of the show. He can easily sweep full teams if they aren't prepared or will usually kill it's counters in the process before going down so that Dragonite can continue the sweep (or vice versa). Between Lum Berry, Taunt, and Dual Screens Haxorus is able to set up on and kill most things that would otherwise completely counter him. Lum Berry eases prediction allowing him to always dragon dance on his first turn out (which usually causes a switch), and then Taunt to prevent further status or phazers, which usually causes more switches and time to set up more Dragon Dances. Dual Screens then ensure that after problematic foes have been shut down with taunt, attacking will not kill haxorus either (for example after taunting Skarm's Whirlwind, Brave Bird fails to do significant damage). Dual Screens also allow Haxorus to survive most priority provided it did not get worn down too much while setting up and ensure Haxorus doesn't get killed by powerful Gyro Balls from the likes of Ferrothorn or other things which Haxorus cannot OHKO. 32 HP EVs guarantee it to survive 3 Seismic Toss/Night Shades (301 hp)

    [​IMG]
    Secondary Sweeper
    Dragonite @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 spD
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
    -Outrage
    -ExtremeSpeed
    -Dragon Dance
    -Fire Punch

    Dragonite is my secondary sweeper and will either facilitate a sweep for Haxorus or by Haxorus. In general, Haxorus is chosen as the first sweeper if Taunt is likely to be necessary to set up (to stop status and phazing), and Dragonite is chosen to sweep first if they are likely to bring in Ferrothorn or Forretress or if Multiscale can be used to help set up. Dragonite differentiates itself from Haxorus with it's access to strong priority and fire type move allowing it to check threats that Haxorus might have trouble with. Basically Dragonite sets up on attacking threats easier, while Haxorus sets up on status inducing threats.

    [​IMG]
    Lead and Primary Screener
    Cresselia @ Light Clay
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Hp, 148 Def, 40 SpD, 68 Spe
    Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
    -Reflect
    -Light Screen
    -Thunder Wave
    -Lunar Dance

    When I first introduced Cresselia to my team it was my secondary screener being more suited to be a mid-late game screener thanks to it's bulk and ability to restore one of my sweepers with Lunar Dance, however I quickly changed it's role to lead due to it's amazing capability to set up both screens on pretty much every attacking lead out there bar bug buzz genesect (which is significantly less common than U-turn genesect in the lead position which does less than 30% before setting up any screens). Cresselia also often sets up with enough health left over to come in later in the game. Thunder Wave however was probably the best addition Cresselia brought to my team, crippling every non ground/volt absorb 'mon out there any further making it even easier for Dragonite, Haxorus, or Scizor to set up, as well giving itself an easier time to set up the appropriate screen before eating an attack due to it's less than impressive speed. Lunar Dance gets minimal usage being used in the lead position only being used when I need to switch without taking an attack, but more importantly gives cresselia more to do if it survives to late game.

    [​IMG]
    Support Lead and Secondary Screener
    Espeon @ Light Clay
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 Hp, 252 Spe, 4 SpA
    Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    -Reflect
    -Light Screen
    -Psychic
    -Heal Bell/Baton Pass


    Espeon works great as a secondary lead and screener to work alongside Cresselia. Espeon can come in on Taunt, Status, and Entry Hazards aimed at Cresselia which otherwise has no way to deal with them. Magic Bounce also offers great use mid-late game if Espeon isn't needed to help Cresselia lead, most notably bouncing back Venusaur and Breloom Sleep Powder and Spore. Even without getting use out of Magic Bounce, Espeon can still usually set up her Screens before eating an attack thanks to it's great speed. While not central to it's purpose, Psychic also gives it an attacking option which differentiates itself from Azelf who it replaced. If for whatever reason Azelf was still alive late/end game and needed to attack it couldn't, and often it compounded one of the drawbacks of using a team like this (ie only having 4 actual attackers). Magic Bounce gives Espeon the move slots it needs to carry an attack which Azelf could not. Using Espeon over Azelf also means it is less likely to get Stealth Rock set up, however I found that Azelf didn't always care or have time to set it up, and I found that I only really set it up when facing opponents that were particularily weak to it such as teams with Dragonite, Volcarona, or Dugtrio (to break his sash). Azelf also ended up wasting Dual Screen turns setting up Stealth Rock because it needed to set it's Screens first to survive. Espeon doesn't need to waste dual screen turns to taunt or drop SR. In the last slot I have been using Baton Pass to escape Pursuit users (mostly because it was suggested by Smogon), however I plan to switch it to Heal Bell as interestingly enough, Espeon has yet to be targetted by Pursuit, and Heal Bell could greatly help late game.

    [​IMG]
    Special Attacker, Weather Reverser, Defensive Pivot
    Heatran @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 Spe, 252 SpA, 4 SpD
    Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    -Sunny Day
    -Solarbeam
    -Fire Blast
    -Hidden Power - Ice

    Originally this heatran used a scarf set with Sunny Day/Overheat/Earthpower/HP Ice, however while being a great revenge killer when the opponent did not decide to switch (as rarely was the scarf expected), it found itself to be easily countered by the many ground immunities and fire resists litering the metagame. However with an Air Balloon Heatran finds itself checking alot more threats that are dangerous to my team. It's typing and ability allow it to come in on the ice and fire type attacks that Dragonite, Haxorus, and Scizor draw in and then KO back with fire blast or HP-Ice. If they have a water type (not named Tentacruel) to switch to, I can use Sunny Day on the switch to patch up his water weakness and then strike back with Solarbeam or an amped up Fire Blast. Typically I will not reveal Sunny Day until Politoed is dead however. In addition, if Heatran's Air Balloon remains intact he can easily counter garchomp (among other dragons) with HP Ice which was recently unbanned and seeing significantly high usage. Between his resistances patching up every 4x weakness on my team, ability to remove Rain and Sand from the field after their starters have died (and they usually don't care to keep them alive when they see my team as weatherless), as well as being my premier special attacker of the team, Heatran sees a ton of use on this team. Cresselia can also help heal him up if he finds himself overworked.


    [​IMG]
    Bulky Sweeper, Tank, Priority
    Scizor @ Leftovers
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Hp, 40 Atk, 216 SpD
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
    -Swords Dance
    -Bullet Punch
    -Bug Bite
    -Roost

    This Scizor is my 3rd set up sweeper for my team, and sets up in ways Haxorus and Dragonite cannot thanks to it's incredible ability to take attacks while setting up. Due to the poor coverage of Bullet Punch and Bug Bite he cannot come in until Heatran and other Fire types are removed, however he does not need to worry much about non-Stab fire attacks thanks to it's incredible bulk behhind dual screens.

    For example:
    252 SpA (Choice Scarf, Timid) Genesect Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 216 SpD Scizor through Light Screen: 186-220 (54.06 - 63.95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA (Life Orb, Timid) Genesect Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 216 SpD Scizor through Light Screen: 242-286 (70.34 - 83.13%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA (Choice Specs, Timid) Genesect Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 216 SpD Scizor through Light Screen: 278-328 (80.81 - 95.34%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Meanwhile if Scizor uses Swords Dance as Genesect switches in, he has a chance to 2HKO Genesect with Bug Bite and Bullet Punch after Stealth Rock or Life Orb recoil (84.8%-99.63%), or if Cresselia manages to paralyze Genesect he can 2HKO without SR or LO recoil with 2 Bug Bites.

    Under better circumstances, it only makes Scizor's life setting up more and more easier. Easily setting up multiple swords dances and roosting off the damage under the protection of dual screens, many would be counters capable of 2HKOing Scizor fail to do significant damage to him, especially on the special side. Scizor also functions as a semi-decent revenge killer, although without a Swords Dance and only 40 attack EVs his Bullet Punch doesn't hit nearly as hard as Choice Band 252 atk Scizor it can still hit hard enough to revenge weakened targets. Probably the best part of this Scizor is that everyone expects Scizor to be running the standard Choice Band set (especially when they see him on the team with other set up sweepers like Haxorus and Dragonite), which makes it extremely easy for him to set up his Swords Dance.

    Other than the aforementioned Fire types, most notably heatran, Scizor gets walled by Jellicent and Skarmory, which can respectively burn or phaze him while taking minimal damage from his attacks.


    NotableThreats:
    Overall the biggest threats to my team are Heatran, Skarmory, and Ferrothorn, although mostly it depends on when and how they use them to soak up my outrages.
    --Heatran can be 2HKO'd by +1 Outrage, but poses major problems to my team if the opponent doesn't mindlessly throw him in front of outrage and brings him out after Dragonite/Haxorus are out of the picture as Cress, Esp, Scizor, and my Heatran can't touch him.
    --Skarmory walls my attacks better than anything else, but it really comes down to how the opponent uses him. If Skarmory comes in before I get locked into Outrage I can taunt or fire punch it. If Skarmory comes in on +1 Outrage there isn't much I can do, if it comes in at +2 it can go either way, depending on if it decides to roost or whirlwind, at +3 it gets 2HKO'd. Worst case scenario, Skarmory will come in after I kill something with Outrage and then have no problem phazing me out only taking 1 outrage and ruining my momentum. Scizor can't do anything to Skarmory, but I won't set up with Scizor anyways until Skarm has been removed. Heatran is great against Skarm, but it usually won't stay in on Heatran either.
    -Ferrothorn makes both Haxorus and Dragonite's life hard. If Ferrothorn comes in while I am setting up I can usually beat it, however what is really difficult is when the opponent forces me to outrage early before sending in Ferro. For example: I send in Haxorus against something non threatening, set up Dragon Dance and the opponent switches to Tornadus-T (or any other flier), I then essentially have to Outrage, being unable to use EQ and not wanting to take his Hurricane, and then they immediately switch again to Ferrothorn which laughs at +1 Outrage and sets up all over me. Ferrothorn with Thunderwave is especially dangerous as I can't set up and kill it fast enough, eating both my lum berry and statusing me after.
    --Rain in general is the most difficult weather for this team to fight as it means Dragonite (as well as Heatran) will have their fire moves significantly weakened making it more difficult for Dragonite to set up in front of the common steel types found on rain teams. Additionally if they keep their Politoed alive I cannot reverse the weather with Heatran, because once the Sunny Day surprise factor is gone, they definitely don't let their Politoed die.
    --Protect users are a double threat to this team, not only stalling Outrages, but also stalling my precious dual screen turns. Notably defensive Politoed, Chansey, and Blissey.
    --Lead boosting sweepers often cause Cresselia and Espeon trouble as neither of them can taunt like Azelf could, however Cress can paralyze non ground/volt absorb/Substitute ones.
    --Haxorus, Dragonite, and especially Scizor don't really care much getting hit by priority, including Mamo's Ice Shard if they have high hp and are behind dual screens. However if the opponent gets them to around 50% while they are setting up without switching to their priority user, it can usually end their attempted sweep prematurely. Opponents that immediately switch to Hax/Dragonite's counter are usually easily dealt with, it's when they use their set up fodder to slowly weaken them while setting up and then revenging with a priority move that can be troublesome.
    --Stealth Rock, while it doesn't bother most of my team, is highly disadvantageous to Dragonite.
    --I have yet to be able to crack the same baton pass team that has been floating around (Ninjask, Scizor, Vaporeon, Espeon, Umbreon, Mir. Mime) as it is capable of setting up much faster than me and doesn't care about my dual screens.

    A Final Look:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Import:
    Show Hide

    Scizor @ Leftovers
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 40 Atk / 252 HP / 216 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite
    - Roost
    Espeon @ Light Clay
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Light Screen
    - Reflect
    - Psychic
    - Baton Pass
    Haxorus @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Atk / 224 Spd / 32 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Dance
    - Taunt
    Dragonite @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Outrage
    - Fire Punch
    Heatran @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Sunny Day
    - SolarBeam
    - Fire Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    Cresselia (F) @ Light Clay
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 68 Spd / 40 SDef / 148 Def
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
    - Light Screen
    - Reflect
    - Lunar Dance
    - Thunder Wave
  2. TaBuu

    TaBuu

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    466
    nice team sacaen (:
    i feel like ive seen this team somewhere before oh well haha
    anyways i feel that this team isn't half bad. its got a decent volt-turn thing going, although their synergy isnt all too great, but no matters.
    I think CS Terrakion, could cause some mayhem. With Ditto gone it only becomes easier for CS Terrakions to come in and trample all over your team. Also if latios and azelf die, CS Terrakion gets yet another opportunity. So, I suggest you throw in
    Bulky/Offensive SD Scizor. Yup, as uncommon as it is, with the same great typing as Sect along with tech boosted+STAB Bullet Punch, it should help more with dealing with Terrakion. Having Screens helps alot too :)
    Another thing i think you should consider is Heatran over Magnezone. Mag is not a bad 'Mon, but it doesnt do its purpose to well. team preview. nuff said :3
    however Heatran can give you rocks, flash fire(for that scizor/genesect), and it can utilize magma storm with sunny day. (THis will help as allowing the other opponent to keep their sand or rain or permanent sun up might be a problem for this team)
  3. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming The truth is in my hands
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    nice team dude :)

    Here's me coming at ya with a few choice suggestions to make your cool Dual Screen team a little stronger. My first suggestion is to use Dual Screen Latios. It might seem like a waste of his abilities, but Latios is hands down the best screener in the game since it has Memento, is wicked fast and DS Latios as a whole is somewhat unexpected. I'm not suggestion you run this over Azelf btw; Latios can act as your teams backup screener (in case something goes wrong and Azelf dies or if your opponent manages to stall out the first 8 turns.) and you'll appreciate its appearance in the midgame. Memento basically guarantees something comes in for free and gets a free set up on any target. I'd replace Ditto with Latios since Ditto's position on a Dual Screen team seems counter-intuitive. The point is to set up a whole bunch of deudly sweepers, have them set up and sweep, and Ditto can't really do that... against a wary opponent anyway. It's a sweet revenge killer, but I think the point of Dual Screen teams is just to not give a damn about conventional team tactics and just do its own thing.

    ===============
    ===============
    Latios @ Light clay
    move 1: Reflect
    move 2: Light Screen
    move 3: Memento
    move 4: Dragon Pulse
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    ===============
    ===============

    Your Genesect would appreciate Bug Buzz over any of its current coverage moves. I tried using RP Genesect without Bug Buzz, and it's kind of underwhelming. It really appreciates having its STAB (otherwise its walled by Tyranitar, for example). Replacing Flamethrower is probably your best bet, since you're still capable of coming out on top against most Steel-types, while removing Thunderbolt makes you a little more vulnerable to Jellicent & Keldeo who I can foresee as being annoying for this team. I'd definitely experiment though.

    Magnezone is not definitely necessary on this team, and is similar to Ditto in that it can't make good use out of those precious Dual Screen turns. If you're a worried about Skarmory beating your Haxorus, you can run Taunt on Haxorus to beat it down in 1 v 1. Skarmory can't WW you out, and its basically forced to Brave Bird and put itself into 2HKO range for Outrage via recoil. Reflect prevents you from taking serious damage, so you basically win most of the time. Taunt has the added benefit of stopping hail mary WWs from Skarmory AND Hippowdown, and it's even better if your opponent runs Shed Shell Skarmory, since you can laugh at them for using such a lame item. Egbert's team was semi famous for doing this(you might want to look into that to get a picture of what I mean). Running Taunt comes at the cost of Swords Dance so might not be to reticent to the idea. I'd experiment with removing Magnezone for a bit and replacing it with another abuser (more on that later), but if you're not comfortable with that you can go back to using Mag + Hax.

    Anyway, if you're willing to drop Magnezone I've got a few replacements.

    #1. Dragon Dance Dragonite. The combination of Dragonite AND Haxorus is too much for both teams. Dragonite and Haxorus can wear down their checks so at least one of them ends up sweeping. If Dual Screens are intact, Multiscale is active and Lum Berry hasn't been consumed it is literally impossible to OHKO Dragonite in one shot.

    #2. Swords Dance Lucario. Lucario has the distinction of being able to sweep teams at the drop of a hat, but its frailness sometimes prevents it from setting up. Dual Screens basically guarantees that it will set up, and after it gets a swords dance it can cut through teams like a hot knife on butter.

    Summary (open)

    Ditto == > Dual Screens Latios
    Double Dance Haxorus == > Taunt DD
    Genesect should run Bug Buzz over Thunderbolt
    Magnezone == > DD Dragonite OR Lucario


    Hope I helped :)
  4. Sacaen

    Sacaen

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2012
    Messages:
    87
    Thanks for the replies.

    I definitely agree that I could probably go without Magnezone, since as I said +3 Haxorus usually eats all the steels on the field anyways.

    In a similar vein, I've noticed people really don't care to keep their weather inducer alive if they don't see a weather inducer on the opponent's side, so I can see Heatran being able to easily remove weather after they have wasted their weather starter. Being sun doesn't really bother me either as the only sun poke that gives me trouble is Venusaur if Hax is already gone.


    Swords Dance vs Taunt on Hax:
    Swords Dance is what has been allowing me to rip through stall teams (Hax specifically needs to be at +3 to 2HKO Skarmory for example) While Lum berry ensures I get 2 turns to set up provided they don't status on the switch (though Azelf tries to keep them taunted before switching), On the other hand I could probably set up 3 dragon dances with Taunt, it is certainly something I will test out.

    I do like the idea of a backup screener. Since my team is EXTREMELY reliant on Azelf setting up at least 1 appropriate screen for haxorus and having him get crit or something to that effect can ruin the entire game. My question is though, will latios be able to set up screens when Azelf cannot? Azelf falls to faster/priority taunters, which could make Espeon a good backup screener instead as it cannot be taunted. Or something bulkier to stomach setting up screens on faster/choice scarf attackers.


    Both of you sound like keeping Genesect is a good idea. but I'm not entirely sure, especially if I were to get hooked on using Dragonite or Lucario as Hax's backup sweepers.

    This is what I am thinking:

    Azelf---------->Same
    Haxorus------->Taunt
    Magnezone---->Heatran w/ Sunny Day
    Latios----------> Secondary Screener (Or Espeon?)
    Genesect------->SD Scizor
    Ditto------------>DD Dragonite


    I think this set up will work out pretty well.

    --Scizor and Dragonite solve my issue of having no priority.
    --Heatran will help against Rain and Sand teams after they let their starter die.
    --Dual Screen Latios will alleviate my chronic problem with crits on azelf/hax ruining my entire game
    --And finally Dragonite should work as a better set up sweeper to pair with haxorus. When I looked at using Dragonite the first time I avoided it seeing as they would get walled by similar pokes, but looking at it again it also means there is less threats that need to be removed since they share similar counters.

    I'll be testing these changes out over the next few days. Of course if anyone sees any issues with the new line up or other suggestions for the previous line up, I'm still welcome to suggestions :)
  5. Sacaen

    Sacaen

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2012
    Messages:
    87
    I've been heavily testing this team and have made major changes to it. While the team still has the same concept and strategy behind it, the entire team except for Haxorus has changed.

    The OP has been updated to reflect the changes made to the team.

    Looking for any comments/suggestions/criticism on the team composition or any big threats I might have missed or ways to help against listed threats.

    Thanks.

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