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Screw "___" All (Hella!)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by giggity69, Jul 7, 2011.

  1. giggity69

    giggity69

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    362
    [​IMG]Screw "___" All (Hella!) [​IMG]


    I built the team a while back when I was testing Palkia, and it has been pretty clutch. The metagame has evolved quite a bit since the early days of Gen 5, not that anyone is surprised, really, and many threats have risen and fallen from favor. The new dragons, Reshiram and Zekrom, have proven to be meh, despite overwhelmingly cool typing, while underlings like Ferrothorn and Terrakion, two stars of this team, in fact, have proven to be real contenders.

    The team is based around building pressure with Spikes in order to wear down Arceus’s main checks, while Palkia takes care of Steel- and select Dragon-types to further weaken the opposing team. I guess I would consider it a balanced team of sorts, but whatever, on to the real shit.
    *note: The first few (Burn, Drown, Rock?) were cool, I guess, but after that... come on, get an original name, son.
    Team Building:

    Got to have a Palkia to test Palkia, right? Naturally.

    [​IMG]

    Next, I needed a Steel-type to cover Palkia’s lone weakness, a Spiker, as well as a secondary check to the fat whale, so Ferrothorn got tacked right on.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Using Ferrothorn without a spin blocker is pretty pointless, so a Ghost-type was needed to keep his Spikes on the field, as well as switch into Fighting- and Fire-type attacks. Giratina-O is perfect, with priority and a Ground-type immunity to boot.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Gooooooooooooooottttta have a Groudon. End of story.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Now that I had a solid core, I needed something that could clean up late game, but I didn’t want to waste a teamslot on a glass cannon, as I still might need it to take a hit or two during the game; no surprise here, Arceus fits the roll to the tee.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Even with two priority users, I was still fairly weak to set up sweepers like DD and SD Rayquaza, SD Arceus, and Mewtwo, so a revenge killer was needed. I also felt pretty Ho-Oh weak, so Terrakion was an excellent fit, and his major weaknesses were already covered.

    [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    *Credit to dialgafans for the animated sprites
    In Depth:

    [​IMG]
    Giratina-O*** Spooks @ Griseous Orb
    Hasty 200 Atk / 56 SpA / 252 Spe

    Draco Meteor
    Shadow Sneak
    Outrage
    Will-O-Wisp

    General Info:

    Giratina-O is the closest thing I have to a “lead,” but whatever, he is just the guy I stick up front to look pretty and talk shit in team preview. As always, he is an excellent mixed attacker, a sturdy spin blocker, and the teams highly-valued Ground- and Fighting-type immunity. He also packs priority to help check faster threats like Shaymin-S and Mewtwo, and is my go to guy for Groudon.

    Moveset:

    Draco Meteor is a mainstay for its immediate power, and because this variant is primarily physically geared, the Special Attack drop is not usually a problem; it also provides a powerful attack to throw around without locking him into Outrage, which is nice. Shadow Sneak allows Giratina-O to check Mewtwo, as well as finish off Focus Sashed Pokemon like Deoxys-A (and -S if you ever see one), as well as kill off Wobbuffet without incident, due to his immunity to Counter. Outrage is rarely used, but it is strong as hell, and can really hurt something if I need it to; it also takes Ho-Oh out after Stealth Rock, and 2HKO’s almost all Kyogre, which Dragon Tail, something I used for a while, cannot. Will-O-Wisp is amazing on Griatina-O; instantly crippling Groudon, Swords Dance Arceus, and Ferrothorn is great, seeing as all of them will try and set up after Draco Meteor is used. That move alone has been the source of many a rage quit, and it is better than HP Fire, in my opinion.

    EVs, nature, and item:


    I run max Speed because I don’t use either Hidden Power Fire or Dragon Tail, which both make speed investment to a certain point a bit useless. I also like outspeeding any variant of Groudon and slow Arceus formes, so I can burn them before they can move. Perhaps most importantly, though, not carrying Hidden Power Fire means that opposing Giratina-O are always slower (I have yet to see one not carrying HP Fire, and I haven’t lost a Speed Tie, yet), so I can confidently stay in and OHKO it with Draco Meteor, which the 56 Special Attack EVs conveniently ensure. The rest was dumped into attack, which buffs up Shadow Sneak and Outrage, should I choose to use it. A Hasty nature was chosen because his resistances tend to be more applicable on the special side, and I have Will-O-Wisp to weaken physical attacks, anyway. Sadly, Giratina-O still has to hold the Griseous Orb; I guess it does help his STAB attack damage, though. I want lefties, damn it.

    [​IMG]
    Arceus***Obama @ Silk Scarf
    Adamant 44 HP / 252 Atk / 212 Spe

    Extremespeed
    Shadow Claw
    Swords Dance
    Recover

    General Info:

    Extreme Killer Arceus is the teams primary sweeper, as well as an important Ghost-type immunity, though most of the time I use him more as a revenge killer with Extremespeed, rather than an offensive wrecking ball. Everyone knows him pretty well, so I shouldn’t need to say much more here.

    Moveset:

    Swords Dance and STAB Extremespeed are the crux of the set, and are really what makes him so dangerous in the first place. Having a secondary priority move really comes in handy when dealing with fast threats like Darkrai, Mewtwo, and Shaymin-S (or freaking Whimsicott), and in tandem with Shadow Sneak from Giratina-O, as well as Spikes and Stealth Rock damage, I can usually overwhelm most sweepers before they get too far. Shadow Claw gives me coverage on Ghost-types, such as the Giratina formes and Ghost-type Arceus, who are immune to Extremespeed, as well as the numerous pressure-abusing Psychic-types in the tier, who love wasting my Extremespeed PP. Recover is a bit unusual for this type of Arceus, but it allows him to come in once or twice midgame and still be able to sweep later. Being walled by Steel-types is annoying, but most of them can’t actually kill, and Palkia is pretty adept at removing them, anyway, so I just use Recover and Swords Dance to get up to +6 and then sweep from there. On several occasions a Ferrothorn has come in and try to stall me out with Leech Seed and whatnot, but it usually ends in a rage quit once I Swords Dance on them twice and then show that I have Recover. It also helps against Scarf Dialga, because I can take the first DM and just recover off the damage as it does less and less.

    EVs, nature, and item:


    Max Attack with an Adamant nature is standard fare on Extremekiller Arceus, though it does unfortunately leave him sitting well behind fast Lugia and Terrakion, but the rest of the team has them covered, anyway. The Speed puts him a point above the base 100 tier, and the rest were dumped into HP. Silk Scarf gives Extremespeed just enough power to revenge kill what it needs to, and does not compromise his bulk like Life Orb does. I used Leftovers for a bit, but the added survivability was not worth the noticeable drop in power, and the 2HKO on Mewtwo is not guaranteed without it.

    [​IMG]
    Terrakion***BOSS @ Choice Scarf
    Jolly 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    Close Combat
    Stone Edge
    Earthquake
    X-Scissor

    General Info:

    Terrakion is an absolute beast of a revenge killer, better than Garchomp, better than Palkia, and sure as hell better than Skymin. Normal Arceus got a Swords Dance? No problem! Wobbs got Rayquaza a Dragon Dance? Not to worry! Scarf Dialga on a bit of a rampage? Make that shit cry! His great speed and impeccable STAB coverage makes him a great fit for the team, and he is one of my favorite Pokes to use, now.

    Moveset:

    Close Combat is kind of a given on pretty much anything physical that has access to it, Tek being no different. It allows him to reliably take out Normal- and Steel-type Arceus, Dialga, Ferrothorn, and Chansey with no questions asked, while leaving a solid dent in most neutral foes, such as Palkia and Kyogre. Stone Edge picks up the slack coverage-wise, and leaves its mark on greedy Ghost-types not named Giratina, who think they can come in for free on Close Combat; it also 2HKOs any variant of Lugia, should I catch them on the switch, and maims Ho-Oh, though that goes without saying. Earthquake and X-Scissor are rarely used, but they have their purposes. Earthquake hits most Steel-types super effectively, without the Defense drops of Close Combat, and can also secure an OHKO on bulky Heatran and Magnezone. X-Scissor is really only for Mewtwo…. I honestly don’t think I have ever used it on anything else. Whatever, it does around 55%, though, so it is another reliable way for me to get rid of it after some prior damage, especially with Giratina-O and Arceus waiting in the wings.

    EVs, nature, and item:


    Honestly, everything here is completely standard, and does not require much explanation. Jolly 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe gives him the power and Speed necessary to revenge kill prominent threats, while the addition of a Choice Scarf ensures that naturally faster Pokemon and most stat boosters are not out of reach.

    [​IMG]
    Ferrothorn***Pricks @ Leftovers
    Careful 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    Power Whip
    Leech Seed
    Protect
    Spikes

    General Info:

    Ferrothorn is a punk @$$ B1@CH. He is amazing, but I hate him for it. His spikes literally give my Giratina-O something to live for, and since the two have impeccable synergy, they give each other a lot of free switch ins. Ferrothorn is also my secondary check to Kyogre; between him and Palkia, Ogre isn’t going anywhere. A lot of matches really come down to a “Who can keep your Ferrothorn alive longer” contest, as it has become such a versatile defensive player, and most poorly built teams fall apart without him. His secondary Steel-typing also provides the team with a solid resistance to Dragon-, Dark-, and Psychic-type attacks, which allows him to serve as a fantastic pivot to bait Fire- or Fighting-type moves for Palkia or Giratina-O to come in on. Its also pretty easy to just go Ferro -> Dragon -> Ferro to bait an Outrage, and then just spread some Seeds and Spikes. Nothing punishes a bad Outrage like Ferrothorn.

    Moveset:


    Power Whip helps him take on Groudon and Kyogre, while still dealing decent damage to neutral switch ins, such as non-resistant formes of Arceus, and Espeon. Leech Seed and Protect allow Ferro to heal off chunks of damage, and can strip 25% right off of a switch in, which really adds up fast with hazard damage on top. Protect also lets me scout common Choice item users, and makes stalling out hefty attacks like Kyogre’s Ice Beam a possibility. Spikes is the move that makes Ferrothorn so annoying; its stupidly good typing and amazing bulk make getting layer after layer a joke, and I (and probably everyone else) have had a good number of matches where all three layers are down by turn 10, and Ferro can literally just nut on everything for the rest of the match, since it doesn’t need to spend turns throwing out Spikes, anymore. Spikes are also pretty necessary on this team for quickly wearing down most of the things that piss my Arceus off, like Defensive Groudon, opposing Ferrothorn, and Dialga.

    EVs, nature, and item:


    252 HP is a given for pretty much any defensive Pokemon, bar maybe Bliss/Chansey, while max Special Defense with a boosting nature helps Ferrothorn wall Spacial Rends, Dark Pulses, Seed Flares, Draco Meteors, and Ice Beams without being overpowered. The last 4 went into Defense because the stat point might save me one day, and Leftovers help increase his longevity, especially in tandem with Protect and Leech Seed. I tried CB when the analysis first got posted, but it didn’t really fit the team… which sucked because it was kind of cool.

    [​IMG]
    Groudon***R Kelly @ Leftovers
    Impish 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe

    Earthquake
    Stone Edge
    Dragon Tail
    Stealth Rock

    General Info:


    Its easy to see why Groudon is such a defining force in the metagame; his ability to check numerous sweepers, such as Zekrom, Physical Arceus, Ho-oh, and offensive Groudon is unmatched, and he provides hazard support, weather control, and phazing, while still maintaining a strong physical presence. Groudon is the teams main physical wall, an important electric immunity, and a boss in general. Never walk out the door without your Groudon.

    Moveset:

    Earthquake is a mandated move on Groudon, and scores solid damage on anything not resistant to it. Stone Edge compliments Earthquake well, and allows him to take Rayquaza and Ho-Oh somewhat reliably, while hitting Lugia and Shaymin-S on the switch for massive damage, especially if Stealth Rock is already up. Dragon Tail is great for punishing switches, and lets me survive the wrath of Arceus or Rock Polish Groudon once; it also lets Groudon rack up passive damage a few times through out the match, which can really pressure the opposing team, and can cause my opponent to just mindlessly attack Groudon, making predicting around their attacks just as mindless as their attacks themselves. Stealth Rock rounds out the hazard core, and makes sure that everything, bar Magic Guard users, takes damage coming in. The team generally has trouble dealing with Pokemon like Ho-Oh, Reshiram, and Specs Kyogre if Rocks are not up soon, so if I see them in team preview, I make Rocks the number one priority.

    EVs, nature, and item:

    Max HP and Defense with an Impish nature has become the standard for defensive Groudon, as it helps him take hits from the powerful physical threats in the tier. The remaining 4 EVs went into Speed, though the only real purpose is to creep on other Groudon that don’t invest so I can beat them to the Dragon Tail. (Honestly, I actually invest more speed, but it all amounts to some form of super speed creep, so I am not really going to bother listing it, but .) Leftovers provide a bit more durability, and can help Groudon come back from the brink with a few smart switches and Ferrothorn’s Leech Seed potentially helping him out.

    [​IMG]
    Palkia***Nosey
    @ Haban Berry
    Hasty 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    Spacial Rend
    Thunder
    Fire Blast
    Outrage

    General Info:

    Haban Palkia was the reason for the team being built in the first place, and has been hugely successful. Palkia counters Kyogre and Manaphy, while reliably checking Giratina-O, Mixed Rayquaza, and other slower Dragon-types. Palkia’s 4x resistance to Fire-type attacks covers Ferrothorn’s 4x weakness rather well, and provides me with a solid switch into Reshiram’s Blue Fire, Heatrans Fire Blast, and other random Fire-type attacks. It also serves as a lure for opposing Steel- and Dragon-types, which Palkia can nearly always eliminate.

    Moveset:


    Spacial Rend is a powerful, consistent STAB attack that deals massive damage to the plethora of Dragon-types in the tier. I used Draco Meteor initially, but the spamability of a non-Choiced locked Spacial Rend works well on this team, as baiting in Steels is an important objective, and there are few occasions where I really need the extra power. Thunder takes care of pesky Kyogre, and smacks switch-ins like Lugia, Tentacruel, and Ho-Oh hard, nabbing a 2HKO on all three with Stealth Rock present. Fire Blast provides great coverage alongside Spacial Rend, and allows me to quickly dispatch most Steel-types foolishly thinking I am Choiced; it also receives a pseudo STAB boost from Groudon’s sunlight, giving Palkia another powerful attack to throw around should Spacial Rend not be favorable. Outrage isn’t used much, but can help against Ho-Oh and select Calm Mind-users, such as the Giratina formes, as well as Blissey (though Chansey takes piss from it).

    EVs, nature, and item:

    Max Speed and Special Attack makes the most of Palkia’s offensive assets, while the last four were dumped into Attack to support Outrage. A Hasty nature was used to raise Speed while keeping both attacking stats, as well as Special Defense, intact, which is necessary to take Water Spouts and Blue Flares from Choice Specs Kyogre and Reshiram, respectively, without breaking, and also helps minimize damage taken from random Thunders and Ice Beams. Haban Berry is where the magic really starts. Its ability to remove Palkia’s lone Dragon-type weakness for a turn can really turn the tides in my favor. Palkia can bluff a Choice Scarf and spam Spacial Rend, then roast the unwary Steel-type with Fire Blast. After seeing that Palkia is not choice-locked, most players will immediately throw out their Dragon-type revenge killer (Choice Scarf Zekrom, Reshiram, and Palkia, as well as Garchomp, Kindgra in the rain, and the Lati@s), who will fail to OHKO Palkia through Haban Berry, and will promptly be dispatched by Spacial Rend or Outrage. This allows me to replay the “force Kyogre out with Thunder, then Fire Blast the Ferrothorn, and wrap up a Dragon with Spacial Rend” scenario all too often. That shit is my favorite, and leaves the opposing team in shambles while I sit back and laugh.

    Final Look:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Conclusion:


    It was fun to make and play with, but I am done with it, and I have been seeing a few too many of my own team on the ladder… soooo.. Whatever. Rate away, and thanks for the read.
  2. giggity69

    giggity69

    Joined:
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    362
    Reserving for threat list

    Nevermind, I am too lazy/busy
  3. Cloud 8

    Cloud 8

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    I dont understand what Groudon does for the team. The only thing I can see is setting up steallth rocks and powering up Palkia's flamethrower. Ferrothorn could instead put up stealthrocks while not powering up an opponents Ho-oh or Reshiram: both of whck will give you trouble. I would instead run Kyogre. IIRC Kyogre can also phaze while alleviating some of Ferrothorns fire weakness and powering up Palkia's STAB.
  4. giggity69

    giggity69

    Joined:
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    Groudon checks pretty much everything physical (A ton of arceus formes, Offensive Groudon, lucario, terrakion, etc.), and gives me an actual switch in to physical set up sweepers instead of just having to sac something and revenge it. Switching him out for Kyogre would mean than EK arceus would walk all over me (I could still revenge it with tek, but only having one line of defense against the best sweeper in the game is not ok in my eyes), and I would gain an electric-type weakness while loosing my only immunity. Also, powering up palkia's Fire Blast is pretty important, seeing as how ridding the opposing team of steel-types, ferrothorn in particular, is kind of the main goal. Yes Kyogre can phaze, but he isn't very good at it, at least in terms of what I need forced out, and putting all my hazards on ferrothorn means that I have to drop protect, which is pretty important for keeping him alive; I would much rather focus on building layers of spikes; it is a spike stacking team, after all.

    Thanks for the rate.
  5. shrang

    shrang I AM CHAMPION CHRISTMAS!!
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

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    Just saying, Lugia walls your entire team. I can't see any way for your team to break stall any time soon, either. Drown All-esque teams can just send in Ferrothorn, get a layer or two of Spikes up, then stick just Lugia in front of you and you can do absolutely nothing. Not really sure how to fix it at the moment without flat out destroying your core, but something for you to think about.
  6. giggity69

    giggity69

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    Yeah, Lugia is a prick, and I have considered sticking a random toxic somewhere pretty much for lugia alone. Stall (without lug) isn't too hard to deal with, but adding him to the mix is pretty annoying, and I have to bait it into a stone edge with rocks up to have a shot at getting past it. Thanks for the input!
  7. Clinton2637

    Clinton2637

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    Wow, that Terrakion is one hell of a beast. I've heard that the thing can OHKO pretty much anything that does not resist Close Combat. It can also outspeed Palkia, which makes it very useful.

    I think that your Arceus should have Shadow Force. It OHKOs Giratina in its Altered form. Your Ferrothorn should have Thunder Wave instead of Spikes. It cripples the opponent's pokemon, which makes leech seed more useful.

    Recover might be useful for Arceus, but it leaves it walled by Forretress, Dialga, and most importantly, Ferrothorn. So I think you should have Earthquake instead of recover, and have leftovers instead of Silk Scarf. Extremespeed already does horrible damage without the Silk Scarf.

    Since there is no pokemon which can bring rain to your team, your Palkia's Thunder is only 70% accuracy. You probably don't know what to expect, so it would probably be safer to go with a Thunderbolt for your Palkia.
  8. trickroom

    trickroom
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    False, Terrakion might be one hell of a beast but it doesn't OHKO everything that does not resist Close Combat. Groudon, Arceus, Cresselia, Kyogre, or even Garchomp are a few examples Terrakion cannot come close to an OHKO at all when unboosted.

    +2 Adamant Max Attack Arceus Shadow Force vs Great Wall Giratina = 68.8% - 81.1%. Also I disagree with this. I will say keep Shadow Claw and forget about Shadow Force. Shadow Force is easily played around and since Giratina is likely to be paired with Chansey or Blissey, it sucks. He doesn't need Thunder Wave on Ferrothorn, keep Spikes on your moveset. Spikes allows you to set up on Lugia and limit Dialga's life span from harassing your team.

    Don't go for Thunderbolt, use Thunder all the way. Thunderbolt is only useful for Ho-Oh? Yet, Ho-Oh isn't 2HKOed by Thunderbolt. Palkia's main niche is to check Kyogre, keep Thunder on your set.

    This is a good team, only thing is you have to watch out for Lugia a bit. If you are referring to Sub Lugia, using Toxic on one of your Pokemon won't solve it. Instead I think you should use Ferrothorn to set up Spikes on Lugia which is the best thing you can do. Otherwise, try to catch Lugia with Palkia's Thunder I guess, but that isn't even a 2HKO without SR.

    You can always try the standard Calm Mind Dark Arceus over your current Arceus if you really hate Lugia. Dark Arceus also checks Mewtwo and Mixed Rayquaza for your team. You lose your main priority user and sweeper withotu Extremekiller Arceus though. Good Luck.
  9. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner
    Moderator

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    This team is pretty solid. A few things may trouble you though - particularly Ghost Arceus and Shaymin-S. The former can be stopped if you have sufficient entry hazards in + constant phazing (which will be very difficult due to its powerful Judgments), but it will prove to be an issue. The latter is problematic as without a solid Air Slash resist it will wear you down. Seed Flares aren't exactly nice to this team either, since its biggest resist, Ferrothorn, can't do anything back, while the other resist, Giratina-O, can't really take the SDef drop. Revenging it is also somewhat difficult due to Substitute (hi there, Terrakion), forcing you to possibly sacrifice Arceus to get rid of it.

    Also Gliscor can potentially stall out your entire team.

    Unfortunately, I don't think I have a major solution to this. Best I could come up with is Scarf Kyogre > Terrakion and Specially Defensive Steel Arceus (CM/Judgment/Roar/Recover. You need Roar for Shaymin-S Subs and for keeping Ghost Arceus at bay) > Normal Arceus. And since you have a more reliable walling Steel-type now, Forretress can be used over Ferrothorn to deter entry hazard set up. If you wish, you can use HP Ice to keep Gliscor away, though its a bit of a gimmicky option. Keep in mind that Ferrothorn helps the team handle Electric Arceus better, though it's rare.

    Also you mentioned Lugia as being an issue. Forretress helps against that, especially against Sub/DTail ones who are immune to Toxic and just -love- spamming Dragon Tails behind that substitute with entry hazard support. You can also stuff Toxic on a moveslot to handle non Sub ones (HP Ice / Toxic / Rapid Spin / Spikes), though you'd miss out on toxic spikes support.
  10. trickroom

    trickroom
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    His team's only phazer is Groudon :( who doesn't like taking boosted Judgments at all. The team's Giratina-O lacks Dragon Tail so he can't really take out Ghost Arceus with a surprise Dragon Tail + hazards + Shadow Sneak.

    Hasty Giratina-O should out speed most Gliscor I think, so Draco Meteor OHKOes Gliscor or Outrage 3HKOes. Should Gliscor run Jolly, Ferrothorn can easily break the sub with Power Whip :) PS: His Palkia is Haban Berry so it can switch moves easily preventing less free switch ins for the opponent switching out Gliscor for any Pokemon.

    Ferrothorn helps his team to handle Calm Mind Kyogre better too :P Jibaku's ideas are really awesome though, I just want to mention that Kyogre (1st usage) is stopped by Ferrothorn better than Steel Arceus can.

    I don't think I seen anyone else using Sub Toxic Dtail Lugia but myself...or maybe those that use Drown All :P Steel Arceus already beats Lugia with faster Roar and Toxic immunity so using Forretress to deal with Lugia better isn't necessary :P Alternatively, you can always try Gyro Ball Ferrothorn to 2HKO Shaymin-S and break Gliscor 's Sub if you don't want Jibaku's Forretress.

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