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Screw The Beatles

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by tomtom5858, Aug 25, 2011.

  1. tomtom5858

    tomtom5858

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    425
    Tomtom here bringing you another wonderful team to rate/hate/totally obliterate.

    Anyways, the general preface of this team is to set up rain, and pave the way for a Toxicroak sweep.

    Teambuilding Process (open)
    First of all, I needed rain, and Toxicroak.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Then, I needed a defensive pivot; as with 26% of teams on the ladder, I used Ferrothorn.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I then, foolishly, used Shedinja without Rapid Spin support as an auxiliary sweeper.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Then, I needed a pair of Pokémon to punch holes in the opponents team; in this case, Choice Specs Jolteon, and Choice Band Staraptor.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Now, there were some SERIOUS problems with that team. Like Stealth Rocks. A bulky spinner Starmie took the place of Shedinja, who was mainly taking up space and being switch in fodder.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Then, I found that Staraptor, despite the Rapid Spin support, just couldn't take dow Ferrothorn a lot of the time. Swords Dance Scizor, on the other hand, made set-up fodder out of Ferrothorn, as well as any Gliscor failing to pack Taunt. In addition, it brutally beats the shit out of Reuniclus.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    That there is the team as it stands today.


    Here is the team in depth:



    [​IMG]
    Politoed (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam

    This is likely the most important member of the team; he sets up the rain that is so vital to the survival of Toxicroak, Ferrothorn, and Scizor, as well as making Starmie and Jolteon's Thunders perfectly accurate.

    In addition, Politoed is an efficient revenge killer, especially against Sandstorm teams packing an Excadrill, as Drizzle negates the Sand Rush boost, and the Scarf making Toed fast enough to threaten him. This is why ScarfToed>SpecsToed. Hydro Pump is there to pack a serious punch; it 2HKOes ChopleTar 98% of the time with a single layer of Spikes. Ninetales is just 2HKOed by Hydro Pump unless they pump some serious EVs into special bulk. Hidden Power [Grass] is there to slap Gastrodon around a bit with a wet cod; he thinks he can switch in with impunity. Ice Beam gets coverage and revenge kills any +1 Adamant Dragonite. Surf is there to be a reliable Water STAB.

    Type Synergy:
    Grass: Ferrothorn, Toxicroak, Scizor
    Electric: Jolteon, Ferrothorn



    [​IMG]
    Toxicroak (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 54 HP / 252 Atk / 204 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bulk Up
    - Drain Punch
    - Substitute
    - Sucker Punch

    Toxicroak is the main sweeper of the team, sweeping any team failing to pack a Gliscor or pHazer. Many a team has been 6-0ed by Toxicroak.

    The EVs hit a Black Sludge/Dry Skin number, while maximizing attack, and maintaining a fair amount of speed. I run Bulk Up over Swords Dance because it's simply the better option. Bulk Up may not get me to +6 as fast as SDance, but I get the opportunity to set up on four out of the top five Pokémon in OU.
    How to beat the top five 'mons in OU (open)
    Ferrothorn: Bulk Up to +6 as it pitifully tries to break your Subs.
    Tyranitar: Sub up, Bulk Up, Drain Punch. 'nuff said.
    Scizor: Set up on Choiced variants, or even SDance variants if they stay in.
    Politoed: Yummy yummy, Scalds in my tummy! The only thing that Politoed can pack to break subs is Ice Beam, which isn't too common, or a rogue Hidden Power, which is never seen.


    Type Synergy:
    Psychic: Ferrothorn, Scizor, Starmie


    [​IMG]
    Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Power Whip
    - Leech Seed
    - Gyro Ball

    This is a Ferrothorn. There isn't that much to it; simply Leech Seed the opponent, set up Stealth Rock while walling. Power Whip and Gyro Ball provide reasonable power while they preventing me from becoming Taunt/set-up bait for something such as Sub/CM Latias, who would otherwise plow through this team like a hot knife through butter.

    The EVs survive something; I have forgotten what. Gyro Ball provides the main STAB against anything that's fast and doesn't resist Steel. Power Whip covers most of what resists GBall, and can 2HKO any foolish Excadrill trying to set up.

    Type Synergy:
    Fire (lol): Starmie, Politoed
    Fighting: Starmie, Toxicroak


    [​IMG]
    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Thunder
    - Rapid Spin
    - Recover

    Starmie is the main supporter (and when Starmie is the main supporter, you know a team is Hyper Offense) of the team, and makes sure my team doesn't get epicly raped by hazards. Surf and Thunder provide enormous power and reasonable coverage.

    EVs are there to maximize Speed while maintaining bulk. Surf is there over Hydro Pump because this is a Bulky Spinner Starmie, not a SpecsMie.

    Type Synergy:
    Dark: Scizor, Ferrothorn, Toxicroak
    Ghost: Scizor, Ferrothorn
    Bug: Scizor, Toxicroak
    Electric: Ferrothorn, Jolteon
    Grass: Ferrothorn, Scizor


    [​IMG]
    Latios (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Thunder
    - Surf
    - Trick

    Latios is a pretty cool 'mon, and doesn't afraid of much of anything. Draco Meteor and Surf provide ridiculously powerful STAB and pseudo-STAB attacks, respectively. Thunder hits Jelly/Pringlesmon, and Trick screws with stall. As with the Jolteon that was in this slot formerly, this is pretty standard, except for Thunder over HP [Fire] for obvious reasons.

    Latios provides a valuable Ground immunity, and trolls Heatran.

    (sorry for not putting more in here; I've never used Latios except in 5drag1mag trolling)

    Type Synergy:
    Dragon: Ferrothorn, Scizor



    [​IMG]
    Scizor (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 232 HP / 96 Atk / 180 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite
    - Roost
    - Swords Dance

    Finally, there's Scizor. If you don't know how powerful Scizor can be, then please go jump off a bridge. The choice of item on such a defensive spread may seem odd, but a Life Orb STAB Technician Bullet Punch coming off of 600 Attack (after a Swords Dance) is going to leave a mark on anything.

    The EVs give me a nice, rounded, 300 Attack stat, while leaving an enourmous amount of Special bulk. Roost is there over Superpower because I find it completely pointless to lower a stat I'm supposed to be boosting. Roost also allows me to set up on any Gliscor failing to pack Taunt, as the Earthquake will only deal around 35%.

    Type Synergy:
    Fire: Starmie, Politoed


    Importable Version (open)
    Toes (Politoed) (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam

    Toxicroak (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 52 HP / 252 Atk / 204 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bulk Up
    - Drain Punch
    - Substitute
    - Sucker Punch

    Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Power Whip
    - Leech Seed
    - Gyro Ball

    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Thunder
    - Rapid Spin
    - Recover

    Latios (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Surf
    - Thunder
    - Trick

    Scizor (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 232 HP / 96 Atk / 180 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite
    - Roost
    - Swords Dance


    There's my team. Please rate/hate!
  2. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    1,778
    This team seems pretty solid, with most threats checked at least to some extent, and not lacking in offensive presence.

    One threat that I have noticed is Volcarona, which for a rain team is a bizarre thing to be weak to. If it sets up (which, looking at your team, it probably will) your only chance to beat it is to sacrifice Politoed and follow up with Scizor, which is obviously something you really don't want to do. edit: sorry, bad calc. You need to take a very heavy hit with politoed, but you can OHKO offensive variants with Hydro Pump most of the time. The lack of SR in your team is also notable, so I would recommend adding a Pokemon that can set it up, or replacing Spikes with it on Ferrothorn. This should hopefully keep Volcarona in check.

    Your team also has almost no backup plan against opposing weather teams. If Politoed somehow dies, which is relatively likely given its offensive nature, you have nothing to stop sun sweepers and excadrill. I'm not sure exactly how to deal with this; just being very careful with Politoed may be sufficient. Otherwise, you could consider a more defensive set:

    Politoed @ leftovers
    Bold 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
    -Scald
    -Toxic
    -Perish Song
    -Protect

    You can use Rest over protect and a chesto berry, or Ice Beam over Protect (most of the moves are filler anyway). This will help keep the rain up, and will also provide you with a handy check to the aforementioned Volcarona, and to Baton Pass, bulky setup sweepers etc.

    Jolteon to me appears to be the most replaceable member; a more offensive Starmie set (max SpA, maybe LO) could easily replace it and politoed as a revenge killer, packing better power and coverage in addition. It would probably make it slightly harder to get past the likes of Jellicent and Tentacruel though. This opens up a whole extra slot with which you can check additional threats and/or deal a lot more damage. You could well use a Tornadus or Thundurus - you have rapid spin support to mitigate that SR weakness, and these two will do way more damage than Jolteon ever would. Though you would have three water-types, Scarf Rotom-W is both faster and more potent than Jolteon, and could cripple an irritating wall with trick. All three of these would provide the ground immunity that your team lacks. I'll leave it up to you to try some stuff out.

    Hope this was of some help. Good luck.
  3. AntiMetaGame

    AntiMetaGame

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    306
    You'll want Scizor's spread to be 232 HP/ 96 Att/ 180 SpD. It rounds down his Life Orb damage, gives him a bonus point of attack, and still allows you to take Latios' Draco Meteors.

    You are weak to Sub Calm Mind rachi in opposing rain teams. Ferro may be able to wall it, but he can't break the subs or stop rachi from getting to +6.

    I'm a bit tired now, I can come back later for a proper rate.
  4. tomtom5858

    tomtom5858

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    425
    The only thing is, if I run a defensive Toed, Excadrill shits all over me, and I have to sacrifice something to get in Starmie and KO, but then they just bring in Tar and OHKO with Pursuit. Not fun.

    Also, I've found that Volcarona is simply obliterated by a Hydro Pump/Surf from Politoed.

    I will take the suggestion of replacing Spikes on Ferrothorn.

    I'll test Tornadus/Thundurus over Jolteon.

    EDIT: Not Tornadus; the Electric weakness is annoying. Testing Thundurus.EDIT2: Not him either. Latios it is!


    I'll redo the EVS on Scizor, too.
  5. mcttt

    mcttt

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    3
    I see a definite problem with strong ground type attacks. You have 2 ground weaknesses and no immunity or even a resistance. Things like scarf landorus would punch holes in your team. I also see a very major weakness to NP celebii. it can set up on starmie, ferrothorn, and politoed/jolteon if they're not using ice moves. If it invests in any defense or health, it will beat toxicroak (it takes 95-105 percent from sucker punch with no investment). To fix these problems, i suggest adding a lati@s onto your team to replace jolteon.

    I personally like cm/sub latias, but your teams seems pretty offensive so you might prefer specs latios:

    name: Choice
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Surf
    move 3: Thunderbolt
    move 4: Trick / Psyshock
    item: Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    I don't think the speed will be missed too much if you switch from jolteon, but if you do then you can always go with a scarf. The power from specs is pretty amazing though. specs draco meteor will OHKO celebi without investment
  6. tomtom5858

    tomtom5858

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    425
    I'll test is out. Thanks.
  7. San_Pellegrino

    San_Pellegrino the eternal dreamer
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,602
    Hi,

    From what I see, Virizion, Landorus and Gliscor are huge problems for this team, and hamper your Toxicroak's sweep greatly. Virizion can set up on Choice locked Politoed, Ferrothorn, and to an extent Starmie, who really needs the SpAtk EVs. To completely block Virizion and Gliscor off, I would suggest using a CM + Roar Latias, which is a really great pokemon who has a lot of potential with Toxicroak, weakening common threats enough that the other can finish them off, as well a being a potent late game sweeper by itself. With EVs of 252 HP / 4 SpAtk / 252 Spe and a Timid Nature, it should be bulky enough to take hits, while forcing a speed tie with other base 110 positive pokemon, which is very helpful if you can win the speed tie in late game situations. The moveset is Calm Mind | Roar | Dragon Pulse | Roost. Additionally I would highly recommend using Perish Song on Politoed as it can be really helpful against things like CM Latias late game when Scizor is weakened, this will likely go over HP Grass, because it does pitiful damage to Gastrodon with a Scarf. Additionally, you should use a Modest nature on Politoed to reach 358 speed, still outpseeding threats like Thunderus.

    An offensive Starmie is also really important to this team to be able to gain KO's on important pokemon like Jellicent, Landorus and Gliscor, who can potentially wall your Toxicroak sweep. Max out Special Attack and Speed, give it a Life Orb, and consider Ice Beam over Recover to hit pesky Grass Types like Celebi or Virizion. Also, in the vein of jc104's post, going with a Specs Rotom-w over Jolteon will give you an extremely welcome Ground resist, and the things that you originally covered with Jolteon are still covered, and hit harder with STAB Rain boosted Hydro Pumps. It'll also have Trick support to help you out vs. Stall. A Timid nature with 252 SpAtk / 4 HP / 252 Spe, Trick | Hydro Pump | Thunder | Volt Switch should suffice. Hopefully I helped, good luck!
  8. tomtom5858

    tomtom5858

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    425
  9. Smith

    Smith is a 90's bitch
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,341
    Hey you asked me to rate so here I am! This team is pretty solid- Jolteon covers you sufficiently against the genies, so in reality very little troubles you offensively. However, something you might find threatening would be DD Dragonite- Fire Punch variants do a number to your entire team as Fire Punch hits Ferrothorn plenty hard even through rain and Dragon Claw or Outrage does plenty to the rest. With Multi-scale, Dragonite is taking pittance from Bullet Punch. Jolly Gyarados also poses a significant threat, especially those with Taunt as you have no reliable way to stopping it- Jolteon still can't switch in against Adamant versions, although they won't sweep you quite as badly.

    With a few precautionary measures, you should manage. First of all, running Spikes when you don't even have SR is a folly- use SR on Ferrothorn instead. You might also run Thunder Wave over Gyro Ball to prevent you from being set up fodder (Gyro Ball is useless if your opponent is paralyzed). You would also run Careful in this scenario for obvious reasons. The other thing you might consider would be Perish Song on Politoed. This a brilliant catch-all for all set up sweepers (and a great way to neuter BP chains).

    Anyways that all I can really fix without ruining this team's synergy- good luck!

    EDIT: If you decide to use Specs Latios (which I wouldn't necessarily be against), you'll need something to make sure that Thundurus doesn't rape your shit- either Ice Beam over Recover or a Life Orb over Lefties ought to get you the power boost you need. Alternatively you could just invest a bit more in special attack.

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