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SDS' Revamp List

Discussion in 'Archives' started by Seven Deadly Sins, Jul 10, 2012.

  1. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    May 29, 2008

    Analysis: Yes, it's OU.
    Revamp: No.
    Other notes: reorder sets? physical / mixed / band / scarf / subseed


    Analysis: Yes, Sap Sipper lets it destroy Amoonguss for free.
    Revamp: Yes, the current analysis is terrible.
    Other notes: Refer to it as Afrobull! also use Sap Sipper as main ability, Reckless in OO. Additional sets? scarf, bulky, cb


    Analysis: lolno, baleet dat shit


    Analysis: nope, cruel and nidoqueen outclass it hard


    Analysis: yes, sd set owns and dd isnt bad either
    Revamp: nope, scms is enough


    Analysis: yes, p. scary in ou and does a number against drizzle with swift swim
    Revamp: nope, scms is enough


    Analysis: no shit
    Revamp: sure, ill write it- current analysis is kinda messy


    Analysis: ofc
    Revamp: yes. delete np, all choice sets, leave sd and agility, mention np and choice in oo, add hjk as slash to close combat for all sets, especially agility


    Analysis: hell yeah
    Revamp: nope, current analysis seems fine


    Analysis: yes, i still have to write it


    Analysis: yes, duh
    Revamp: no, current sets fine


    Analysis: yes
    Revamp: yes, remove curse, add volcarona mentions


    Analysis: yes
    Revamp: no, but delete offensive np, move defensive np to the top (maybe rename simply to nasty plot?), mention new stuff


    Analysis: yes, definite niche pokemon
    Revamp: no, pretty straightforward and largely unchanged, but maybe mention new pass targets
  2. Pocket

    Pocket playing 100%
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    Dec 22, 2004
    Lucario: Out of all the scrapped sets, keeping Agility seems rather odd for me; I don't see Agility being any better than the removed sets.

    Mienshao: Choice set should be removed, imo, or at least be one of the bottom sets. People opt for LO Fake Out over Scarf-locked moves. Mienshao really appreciates switching moves and does not mind the LO recoils thanks to Regeneration, making CB less appealing.

    Scizor: Do people still use Bulky SD? Seems kind of outdated - I think the set should be revised since the large majority does not run that much SDef anymore. No mention of Iron Plate is a little unnerving - it's great for bluffing Choiced Scizor on SD Scizor with U-turn.

    EDIT: Offensive SD definitely needs to be above Specially Defensive, since the former is the 2nd most used set outside of CB.

    Volbeat: Substitute > Thunder Wave, imo, but I haven't exactly used Volbeat so maybe not.
  3. EonX

    EonX One and Only
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    May 27, 2011
    I've used Agility Lucario quite a few times back in the BW1 metagame and the main thing it has over SD is the coverage it's able to run without a general need for priority. SD set always has issues getting around things. Terrakion stops it cold if you don't have Bullet Punch as does Gengar. However, by running this along with ExtremeSpeed, Lucario can do next to nothing against Jellicent, Gliscor, and will not be able to win against any Celebi carrying Earth Power or HP Fire (basically all of them) all of which are threats that Lucario needs Crunch or Ice Punch for respectively. However, Agility fixes your Speed issues and allows you to run full coverage with Close Combat, Crunch, and Ice Punch. (HP Ice with minimal Special Attack investment can be used if beating Gliscor is a must) Coverage usually makes up for the lack in power as long as you have a reliable Spikes user and possibly a wallbreaker. (CB Terrakion for example)
  4. doughboy

    doughboy backhand slap ready
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    Sep 4, 2011
    Nooooo, don't delete the Cofagrigus set! Cofagrigus is very viable in OU, especially on defensive teams. I have used Cofagrigus to great success and it does have the bulk and movepool to compete with the big boys in OU. He is physically bulky like Dusknoir, but better. Here are a couple reasons to keep Cofagrigus' OU analysis:

    1. Access to Haze

    Haze is really badly distributed and its move stall teams (maybe even regular teams) want because of its ability to deal with last-man Pokemon. However, stall teams ussually don't incorporate it because the Pokes with the moves just don't fit into stall teams. However Cofagrigus gets it. Haze makes sure it isn't set up upon by stat boosters. In combination with Wil-o-Wisp it makes it very difficult to break on the physical side. End-game Pokes it can beat include SD Scizor and Chesto-Rest Kingdra. Stall teams also have trouble dealing with Baton Pass because of Magic Bounce Espeon and Substitute. Haze puts an end to all of that.

    2. It can wall things not many other Pokes can.

    Cofagrigus is really bulky and it is so bulky it can put a stop to some physical threats that you wouldn't be able to otherwise. For example Terrakion. Terrakion is widely regarded as one of the hardest to Pokemon to wall in OU. Really only Gliscor and Slowbro can put a stop to it. However Cofagrigus can come in on Gliscor just as effectively as Gliscor can. There is only a 1% deviation in the amount of damage that Cofagrigus' standard set takes from CB Terrakion's Stone Edge compared to Gliscor's standard set. Conkeldurr has trouble getting past it since Cofagrigus is slower and erases Guts (Gliscor now fears Ice Punch). FFS it isn't even 1HKO'ed by CB Tar's Crunch.

    3. It gained Pain Split and is a great Spinblocker

    Cofagrigus is much more self reliant now that it gained Pain Split through the BW2 move tutors. It isn't as great as reliable recovery, but it can heal him back up without the use of support. He has much more staying power now that he has Pain Split and it means now he can beat standard Tentacruel 1 vs 1. Interestingly he is the only spinblocker now that can defeat the new Sandsand. While it does have troubles with Starmie, it can tank two Hydro Pumps (one in Rain) from full health (lefties Rapid Spin) and can hit back with a decently powered Shadow Ball.

    Overall I would be very dissapointed if Cofagrigus' analysis was deleted, especially with the addition of Pain Split and RestTalk in BW.

    edit: Is Volbeat really worth it when you have Nasty Plot Celebi or Venomoth to Baton Pass?
  5. ginganinja

    ginganinja It's all coming back to me now
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    Apr 13, 2009
    So have I actually, and I agree that having to run an extra coverage move is nice. The downside (and this is an utter deal breaker for me) is that you lose an assload of power. That power loss is just insane when I tested it, and even running Suicide Spiker lead Deoxys D still made it very difficult to sweep.

    Whenever I used it, I would always be thinking "shit it would have been nice to have SD here" since it was an utter failure against pretty much any team that had a wall. The stupid think is, even when you run Crunch, Jellicent still beats you!, so you cannot really argue that "with coverage I avoid the problem that the SD set has in always having issues getting around things" since the power loss means you now lose to stuff the Swords Dance set would beat. Swords Dance, for example, can just Crunch its way past Jellicent at +2, while Agility can only max out at 60% which personally, is just pathetic when Jellicent can either LO stall you, burn you with WoW, or nail you with Scald with no problems.

    Last but not least there were also times when I needed something low on health, like a Latios that I could not Agility on and I really wished I had Extreme Speed, it might not have the greatest coverage, but Priority is just awesome in the game, and there was many a time where I really missed it.


    I hate Agility Lucario
  6. Nyktos

    Nyktos Custom Loser Title

    Aug 27, 2008
    It mentions Metal Coat, which does the same thing.
  7. Ditto

    Ditto /me huggles
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    Jun 11, 2007
    For Lucario, remember that Justified is now released with full breeding and tutor capability. That should probably be switched to the ability of choice.
  8. alexwolf

    alexwolf lurks in the shadows
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    Jul 3, 2009
    I have used Bulky SD Scizor, in a rain team, and it is still very effective. If you want proof check the team in my sig...
  9. casey90


    Oct 2, 2009
    Are we allowed to make suggestions for revamps in this topic?
  10. blarajan

    blarajan Rest in Bling
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    Aug 29, 2010
    Screw that. Fuck Jirachi. I honestly adore Inner Focus as it can't be Jirachi'd to death. The paralysis isn't that huge of a deal due to Extremespeed / Bullet Punch.
  11. Adamant Zoroark

    Adamant Zoroark

    Aug 11, 2011
    Well, Specially Defensive Jirachi isn't really reliably beating a +2 SD Lucario, and ScarfRachi is going to be going for Fire Punch anyway. So, even with Justified as the ability, if you're relying on HaxRachi to beat Lucario you're doing something wrong. Justified, on the other hand, grants free Attack boosts, allowing Lucario to set up a SD as their Dark-type flees. How about a +3 ExtremeSpeed? If you thought a +2 ExtremeSpeed was scary, now you have to say hello to a +3 ExtremeSpeed.
  12. Chillarmy


    Nov 7, 2009
    I'm fairly sure that no player who is using a Pokemon that will be choice locked into a Dark-type move (because that's the only way Lucario will even be able to boost) will spam said move haphazardly after seeing Lucario in team preview, anyway. I'd rather have that safety vs flinch than risk my Lucario getting KOed by a stray Fire Blast, Superpower, Earthquake, etc.
  13. Adamant Zoroark

    Adamant Zoroark

    Aug 11, 2011
    Inner Focus is actually a lot less useful than you think it is. Jirachi is basically the only user of flinching moves in OU (and as already stated, Specially defensive Jirachi is not a reliable Lucario check at all, in fact it's one of the shittiest ones conceivable, I don't think it can even be considered a check), and even when you run into something using Fake Out, Lucario resists Fake Out so it's not like it matters anyway. Out of all the times I've used Inner Focus Lucario, Inner Focus helped me out exactly zero times. Prediction might be able to spoil any plans with Justified, but prediction can go both ways and Justified is at least more useful than Inner Focus (which actually isn't useful at all).

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