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Second RMT: Need help

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by AJ34, Dec 8, 2012.

  1. AJ34

    AJ34

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2011
    Messages:
    31
    Okay, so this is my second RMT, and so far, this team has been having mixed success. I just can't figure out what to change. There are a few common weaknesses that are a problem, but I can't find a way to fix it without causing more problems. This is why I came here.

    This team is pretty much meant to paralyze as much of the opponent's team, and sweep with the appropriate sweeper.

    Process:
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    I started looking for a defensive core that could spread paralysis well. I stumbled across the BroMoongus core, which works very well in this meta, and can wall alot when put together.
    [​IMG]
    I then looked for a sweeper which can take advantage of the paralysis. Terrakion came to mind. With a band or a sub/SD set, he can take advantange and proceed to sweep.
    [​IMG]
    I needed something that could hit from the special side, so I am not walled by things like skarmory, so I decided to go with Keldeo, who in my opinion is very underrated these days. The ability to KO chansey (after stealth rocks) with specs is nice :)
    [​IMG]
    Now, obviously I needed something to take psychic type attacks besides slowbro, being that he is a physical wall. I picked SpDef Jirachi because of the ability to provide wish support along with the paraflich combo that my team can take advantage of.
    [​IMG]
    Finally, I needed something to set up SR and to have some coverage. I noticed that I had no real way of dealing with dragons. Mamoswine was great for this role. It takes advantage of the paralysis and can check many threats to my team.


    The sets:
    (Changes made because of suggestions are in bold)
    [​IMG]
    MamoPWN (Mamoswine) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Endeavor
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Shard
    - Stealth Rock
    This is usually a lead. Sets up SR and can do alot of damage with expert belt to grab a few KOs it wouldn't normally get. I run endeavor over Icicle Crash/Stone Edge to get some surprise factor, as they don't usually run it most of the time, and it lets me get a ko with ice shard after I attack with endeavor. EQ and Ice Shard are for STAB, and Ice Shard is what makes this a legitimate threat. It can revenge kill most dragons, OHKOs any dragon (besides lati@s and yache berry). Also, this can OHKO ttar 100% of the time with either EQ or superpower, so this makes it a good lead against sand teams. EVs are simple: Hit hard and be fast. Jolly is chosen over adamant to outspeed things such as (some) Toxicroak.

    [​IMG]
    Mooshroom (Amoonguss) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 28 SAtk / 252 HP / 228 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Clear Smog
    - Giga Drain
    - Spore
    - Stun Spore
    This is a very underrated Special wall. It can inflict dual statuses on the opponent to set up for a Terrakion or Keldeo sweep. Clear smog is the most important part. With it, I can shut down boosting sweepers. Giga Drain is just so that I have a way of healing besides lefties and Regenerator, but it can also KO some water types because Amoongus has a decent SpAtk stat. Spore and Stun Spore are very important. These two statuses pave the way for a sweep. EV's are to get the most Special bulk possible. Nuff said. This is a great Breloom counter, as Clear Smog hits for SE damage and removes any SDs, while Breloom cant touch it anyway.

    [​IMG]
    Slowbro @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Thunder Wave
    - Fire Blast
    - Slack Off
    - Scald
    Slowbro is a pretty epic physical wall. Takes Physical hits very well, and has synergy with Amoongus. The moves are simple: Twave for extra para, and scald for stab (and a nice burn chance that could come in handy), and Slack Off for very reliable recovery. Fire blast takes out ferrothorn and forretress and skarmory. I alsoThis usually lasts a very long time in battle, and is a great asset to my team.

    [​IMG]
    Keldeo-R (Keldeo-Resolute) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Surf
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Ghost]
    Keldeo is my special sweeper. This thing is amazing. Decent Coverage and a great SpAtk stat make this a monster once I spread enough paralysis. Surf is for STAB, and I prefer it over Hydro Pump for accuracy. Secret Sword for Blissey/Chansey, who don't wall this set. HP Ice is for coverage.

    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Salac Berry
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Substitute
    - Swords Dance
    Terrakion is a great physical sweeper that can do a ton of damage. Almost nothing resists its STABs, and hits everything hard. CC and Stone Edge for obvious STAB moves, Sub+SD works very well here, because odds are, Terrakion will force a switch so that it can set up. After subbing down enough, the salac berry gives a speed boost that lets me wreak eveything. This thing has gotten me many great sweeps.

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Serene Grace
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Fire Punch
    - Iron Head
    - Ice Punch
    - U-Turn
    This was originally a Spdef jirachi, but after a suggestion by A l e x a n d e r I decided to use this. It makes a great revenge killer and gives my team good resistances. Serene Grace makes me able to freeze and burn people 20% of the time, so it is much more common. Every few games this will freeze someone. Genesect was actually here before he was banned, and this fills in for it nicely.


    So that's my team. Please leave a rate so I can fix it.

    Problems I've noticed:

    This team has a hard time against hazard stackers: Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Deo-D, Forretress
    the hazards are a real problem for my team.
    (fixed as a result of scarf jirachi and fire blast on slowbro)

    There is a lack of speed on this team, and I have no revenge killer.(scarf jirachi)

    The team needs something with a phasing move.

    Can't handle sun teams at all.

    Currently in testing:
    Landorus @ Life Orb | Sheer Force
    Modest | 4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Rock Polish | Earthpower | Focus Blast | Hidden Power [Ice]

    Terrakion @ Focus Sash | Justified
    Jolly | 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Stealth Rock | Close Combat | Stone Edge | Taunt / Swords Dance
  2. Dr Ciel

    Dr Ciel

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,287
    Hey there, got your VM to rate this team and guess what? I'm going to do exactly that. I see that you are trying to using an annoyer team to frustrate the opponent with Thunder Wave and then maybe get some flinch hax with your Jirachi. I personally like this strategy because I have used it many times in the past. So, I'll use my past experiences to help this team improve a whole lot. First and foremost, I shall recommend some changes in the EV and moveset department, as is my custom. Keep in mind that you should take these changes into consideration and possibly test them out before implementing them into your team. Okay, now that I am done rambling, it's time to start rating the team! We shall start off with our wooly mammoth that is known as Mamoswine. I don't really thing that Expert Belt should be an item on a lead like this one, which is why I suggest that you change the item to Focus Sash. Focus Sash help guarantee that you will get Stealth Rocks up. As for the moveset of Mamo, I suggest using Endeavor over Superpower. Endeavor helps to get your opponent down to 1HP while you are at 1HP yourself. You can then use Ice Shard to nab a quick KO. While I like the idea of a double Spore on Amoonguss, you should change its EV spread to one of 252 HP / 28 SpA / 228 SpD over your current spread. The aftermentioned EV spread helps it break Keldeos Subs when at +2, and we all know how much a nuisance Keldeo can be when it gets set up. Moving on to the unicorn pony, Keldeo, you should be using a Calm Mind set over your current one. With a Calm Mind set, Keldeo can create all sorts of chaos once it gets to +2. Last, but definitely not least, I suggest trying a Salac Berry over Life Orb. With Salac Berry, Terrakion can get a +1 Speed boost if it subs up down to the right amount of HP. From there, absolute chaos will reign over the battlefield. Well, that's all I have to say for now. I really hope that my advice helped in a big way. Good luck and have fun with your team!

    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Keldeo @ Leftovers Lv. 100 -- Justified

    Nature: Timid - EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd

    - Surf
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Calm Mind
    - Secret Sword


    ~Dr Ciel~ (The doctor is OUT)
  3. AJ34

    AJ34

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2011
    Messages:
    31
    Thanks. I was using a sash mamo lead on a different team before this one and I don't know why I didn't think of it sooner. I will test it right away. I will also try the CM set on Keldeo and see how it goes I dislike the set you gave me becuase it is walled by Jellicent, but I guess that's what amoongus is for. As for Terrakion, Salac berry is a great idea, and I kinda just threw Life Orb on there because I didn't have any better idea for an item. I'll put that on there as well.
  4. Asek

    Asek Roll one for me
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2012
    Messages:
    598
    hi

    Cool team. First off, I definitely reccomend using Hydro Pump > Surf on Keldeo. Since your not running rain, the extra power will definitely come in handy to nab some more KO's. The misses Hydro Pump has is made up for in the rise of power, which can help win some more games. Hydro Pump's noticable rise in power is definitly enough to make the If you I would also use Hidden Power [GHOST] > Hidden Power [ICE] for the reason that jellicent is walling your current set, as well as pretty much annoying you whole team for that matter. Hidden Power [GHOST] muscles through keldeo and still hits Lati@s for SFE damage, and since the are the main targets of HP [ICE] there is really no reason not to change HP's. You may miss out on Dragonite and Salamence, but those 2 aren't really an issue to your team with mamoswine and slowbro in the wings to deal with them. The ability to hit jellicent is far more appreciated then hitting those 2 dragons.

    Now, to help with 3/4 of the hazard setters on your problem list, there is a pretty easy solution right in front of you. Using Fire Blast > Psychic on Slowbro allows you to beat Forretress, Ferrothorn and Skarmory with ease. This stops them from getting the spikes up that plague your team immensly atm, and can promptly dispode of them altogether, and forretress and skarmory are 2 hurdles to a terrakion sweep, so getting rid of those 2 will greatly help terrakion if he is to sweep through the opposing team. Removing Ferrothorn also makes handling rain a bit easier as well. The loss of psychic isn't a big deal, the only targets it is really useful for is Conkelldurr and CM Keldeo, the former being pretty uncommon and the latter being taken care of by Thunder Wave.

    GL with the team
  5. AJ34

    AJ34

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2011
    Messages:
    31
    Thanks for the rate. I was originally running HP Dark for Jellicent, but the poster above you told me to use HP Ice. I was a bit worried about Jellicent so I will try this. I will do some tests with HPump on Keldeo, and fire blast is a great idea. Thanks alot.
  6. dragonuser

    dragonuser The only thing I look up to is the sky
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Pyramid Kingis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Hey there,

    So this team looks pretty solid, but I do see a few weaknesses. Everything seems to be very well handled except for a weakness to Sun teams. Your only way to handle Venusaur is Mamoswine (who doesn't ohko), and due its role on this team its pretty unlikely that he will be around late game. If Mamoswine goes down early (setting up hazards), Pokemon like Salamence can also be deadly if they get +1. To help with your weakness to Sun teams I would recommend Latias > Amoonguss. Latias does a lot of what Amoonguss does for your team, but it is also a great Sun check. It is still a very solid Rain check when paired with Jirachi, and the only real downside is the loss of Spore. Now to help deal with your difficulty in revenging, two routes can be taken. One would be moving SR to another Pokemon and preserving Mamoswine till its needed, while another would be adding a secondary revenger to your team. I think the second option would be best here. I would recommend making Keldeo Choice Scarf'd. Scarf Keldeo is a fantastic revenger in this metagame and really helps your team out. It can do well vs threats to your team like Volcarona and Salamence. One other moveset adjustment I would make is making your Terrakion EV spread 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd. This may seem like a very minor change, but lets Salac activate at 25% rather than 1% health, helping incase they have a Rough Skin user or weak priority. Anyways, cool team gl.

    sets (open)

    [​IMG]
    Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    [​IMG]
    Latias (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 72 HP / 192 SAtk / 244 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Psyshock
    - Recover

    The latias spread lets it outspeed all relevant threats, while taking into account the imperfect speed HP Fire gives. It also hits a LO number, while putting the rest into power.
  7. AJ34

    AJ34

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2011
    Messages:
    31
    These are great ideas. I was using a scarf on Keldeo for a while, but the lack of power really annoyed me. I do in fact have a problem with revenge killing, because the fastest thing on by team is base 108 speed, so it can be difficult. I would like a suggestion on another scarfer to put on my team in a different spot if possible.

    As for Latias, I will test it, but I'm a bit skeptical that this will be a good replacement due to the loss of status. I might use a bit more bulky latias set with twave recover psyshock, dpulse or something like that. I will test.
  8. Alexander.

    Alexander.

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,859
    Hello AJ34 and nice team :)

    I found a weakness to ground moves, indeed, your team haven't any immunity to ground and two your pokèmon (Terrakion and Jirachi) are weak to it. I'd use Landorus in place of Mamoswine with a particular moveset that I will put in this response later. Then, I'd use Choice Scarf Jirachi in place of your current Jirachi because it's a really good revengekiller with its coverage (I would not use Choice Scarf Keldeo here because I think that your team needs a strong special sweeper and Calm Mind Keldeo does its work very well).
    Finally, I'd use Hidden Power Ice in place of Clear Smog on your Amoonguss because I think that Clear Smog is quite useless here and Hidden Power Ice is nice to hit Landorus and dragon types.

    Landorus set:

    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Landorus (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earth Power
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]


    Hope I helped, good luck!

    ~Alexander
  9. AJ34

    AJ34

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2011
    Messages:
    31
    Was thinking of using landorus there anyway, but my issue with it was the fact that it couldn't revenge kill dragons as well, it doesn't quite have enough speed, and no priority. Nevertheless, I will test these out as well. Scarf Jirachi may work well too, I will try that, thanks for the idea.

    As for hidden power, I think I have enough ice coverage elsewhere, and clear smog is needed to stop setup sweepers.
  10. Blueman900

    Blueman900

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2012
    Messages:
    6
    I think instead of giving keldeo hidden power ghost, you can give it HP fire, which can help take down the entry hazard droppers; ex.) skarmory weak x2, ferrothorn weak x4, etc.
  11. AJ34

    AJ34

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2011
    Messages:
    31
    After testing, I have concluded the following:

    1) Latias did not work. Messed with the synergy and overall served no purpose because it had no survivability.

    2)Scarf Jirachi is amazing, and I will switch my moveset right away.

    3)Landorus did fairly well, and his immunity did come in handy. I am still testing this to figure out if it deserves a teamspot, but it most likely will get one.

    4)Scarf Keldeo sucks (on this team). Nuff said.
  12. AJ34

    AJ34

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2011
    Messages:
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  13. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude is an official Custom Title Rater
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2012
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    Hi i got your request :D

    This looks like a nice weatherless team you have here however as you mentioned it does have its flaws. As dragonuser mentioned Sun teams look like a big problem for your team, with no weather effect to eliminate their sun your team is victim to their +2 spe Chlorophyl sweepers and boosted Fire-type attacks. Latias looked like a good fit for your team but seeing as that didn't work for you i have another suggestion going on the more offensive route.

    First of all i second Alexandras suggestion of using Landorus in place of Mamoswine however to give your team a much better threat to sun teams i suggest using the Rock Polish Landorus>Mamoswine with Rock Polish being able to double Landorus's speed Landorus is capable of outspeeding the Chlorophyl sweepers that threaten your team such as Venasaur or Victreebel. Additionally with Focus Blast / Earthpower / Hidden Power [Ice] Landorus can hit a lot of pokemon commonly found on sun teams super effectivly. Hidden Power [Ice] hits pokemon like Venasaur, Victreebel, Dugtrio, Dragonite, Salamence, Xatu. etc super effectively while Earthpower provides stab and hits pokemon like Ninetales, Heatran and other Fire-types supereffectively. Focus Blast is great to hit Air Balloon Heatran among others. With Sheer Force and Life Orb attached Landorus's special attack is boosted to terrifying levels letting you sweep after a Rock Polish late game quite easily. Sheer Force also has the perk of negating Life Orb reciol letting your Landorus last longer on the battle field. You don't miss out on to much without Mamoswine seeing as Landorus provides similar typing and coverage while he still synergises well with the team.

    The only problem i can see with losing Mamoswine is your loss of the move Stealth Rock. However this problem can be easily fixed by using a Stealth Rock Terrakion>Sub+SD Terrakion at first you may think using Stealth Rock and Focus Sash on Terrakion is a waste of his offensive capabilities however that would be a rookie mistake to think that. Terrakion causes so much switches that he can find a lot of oppurtunities to set up Stealth Rock. Terrakion is a good lead as well almost garunteed to get up Stealth Rock. Terrakion also matches up well with most weather inducers being able to threaten Tyranitar with Close Combat, Abomasnow with Close Combat/Stone Edge and Ninetales with Stone Edge. The ability to threaten these weather inducers is great for a weatherless team like yours and it is also good to give Terrakion easy Stealth Rock or even Swords Dance oppurtinities. Although you miss out on some sweeping potential with Terrakion you still make up for it having one of the most terrifying sweepers in Rock Polish Landorus. However in Terrakions last move slot you have the option of Taunt or Swords Dance so you can keep Swords Dance should you feel that you wish Terrakion had more power.

    Good luck with the team i hope i helped! Also i think you might of meant Choice Scarf Jirachi, because in your op it holds Leftovers.

    Sets
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Landorus @ Life Orb | Sheer Force
    Modest | 4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Rock Polish | Earthpower | Focus Blast | Hidden Power [Ice]
    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Focus Sash | Justified
    Jolly | 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Stealth Rock | Close Combat | Stone Edge | Taunt / Swords Dance

    Tl;dr
    Show Hide

    Mamoswine--->Landorus

    Terrakion
    .Sub+SD set--->Stealth Rock set



    ~Superpowerdude
  14. AJ34

    AJ34

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2011
    Messages:
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    Thanks for the rate, I was playing around with a landorus, and a RP set sounds good. As for Terrakion, I was thinking of running a lead set, but I went with Sub+SD becuase I had SR with mamo. Without mamo, lead terrakion may work. Thanks for your input and I will apply these changes and test. :)

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