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Seel (Analysis)'

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Brammi, Apr 1, 2010.

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  1. Brammi

    Brammi

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    [​IMG]

    Seel Analysis: http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/seel

    STATUS: Proofreading Stage.


    [OVERVEIW]

    <p>Seel is a niche Pokemon. It can potentially fill numerous roles in your team; however, it is overshadowed by Pokemon with higher stats. That said, it is the only Pokemon in Little Cup that learns the combination of Aqua Jet, Ice Shard, and Fake Out. If you are going to use Seel, do so only after looking at whether or not another Pokemon is going to be able to do that job better.</p>


    [SET]
    name: Revenge Killer
    move 1: Fake Out
    move 2: Aqua Jet
    move 3: Ice Shard
    move 4: Endure/Aqua Tail
    item: Leichi Berry/Life Orb
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 236 Atk / 36 SpD / 236 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Priority is an amazingly useful tool in Little Cup battles. There are many teams based entirely on prority however there are few options that have as many different priorities available to them as Seel. With Fake out and Aqua Jet/Ice Shard Seel is able to get two hits for the price of one without the opponent being able to touch it. The extra priority of Ice Shard is the only thing that sets Seel apart from its fellow Aqua Jet abusers. This makes it much better at dealing with threats such as Croagunk and Paras, who would normally wall your Aqua Jet Pokemon. Of course this is important because it allows ou to give Seel that much needed Attack boost in the form of Endure/Leichi. Tactics like this are best suited to Pokemon that utilise priority thus making it not only viable on this set but also the premier option</p>

    <p>The use of this set is rather straightforward. Fake Out on the first turn for free damage. Then Endure when their counter attacks. The use of priority on the set allows safer use of the well known Endure/Pinch Berry combo. This allows Seel to raise its Attack stat to a much more acceptable 22. Once Seel has its boost, you can proceed to lay dents on your opponents team or, when used late game, finish off weakened Pokemon thus helping you close out the match. Of course even with the Leichi boost you will not be the hardest hitter out there but it can hold its own in the battle. This set boasts the ability to take out a Paras that already has an agility under it's belt provided it has lowered its HP to 19 to cater for Life Orb.</p>

    [Team Options & Additional Comments]


    <p> The Speed EVs may seem wasteful, but with the given EVs, Seel is able to Speed tie with other priority Pokemon in the 14 Speed teir. An alternate EV spread of 236 Att / 236 Def / 36 SpD, which is based more around bulk, is available and should be used if your team already has a way to deal with priority Croagunk or when using Aqua Tail. The thing to keep in mind when using this set is that Seel is in no way a priority sweeper as it lacks the raw power; it is instead only a revenge killer.</p>

    <p>As a revenge killer, Seel will want to be able to come in more than once; residual damage from entry hazards such as Stealth Rock and spikes will add up to Seel's death gradually, therefore Pineco makes a good partner being able to come in on Grass attacks. Baltoy is weak to Grass however is immune to electric and as such also makes a good teammate. Croagunk makes a good partner in crime. It resists Seel's Grass weakness and can help Seel finish off weak opponents due to also having reliable priority as well. Croagunk is also immune to Water, a type that Seel has difficulty hurting.</p>

    [Team Options]

    <p>Grass types partner well with Seel as they can come in on the Grass- and Electric-type attacks aimed at Seel. They are also able to lay the hurt on enemy Water Pokemon. Notable Grass-types are Shroomish, who can cause switches with its stalling set and allow Seel to come in later to finish the job. Also Bellsprout, who can come in on Grass-type and Electric-type attacks that will be thrown at Seel, and threaten the Water Pokemon on both sides of the attacking spectrum. Anything that can come in on a water Pokemon will be a good partner for Seel due to its inability to lay significant damage onto waters. Waters with HP electric, Seel's best counters, can be beaten by the trappers Diglett and Wynaut especially if they are running a Scarf with that Hidden Power Electric.</p>

    [Optional Changes]

    <p>Seel, as a result of its natural sturdiness, can also attempt to fill the supporting role. There are many Pokemon with better defenses; however, there are few that can reliably use Encore. With Encore, Seel can open the way for a very dangerous sweep for Pokemon like Gastly (when Encoring a Grass-type move) or Chinchou (when Encoring an Electric-type move) by allowing them to be assured of coming in on a move that they are resistant or immune to.</p>

    <p>Its other ability, Hydration, isn't as useful in the fast paced metagame of Little Cup. If used on a Rain Dance team, it may be able to fit the role of a support Pokemon. If you would like to use Seel in this way a set comprising of Encore / Rain Dance / Substitute / Aqua Tail can be annoying to your opponent and has the appeal of being able to potentially shut down Lileep.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>Seel finds it difficult to lay serious damage on other Water-type Pokemon. Due to its unique typing, Chinchou gets a special mention for being able to both resist Seel's attacks and threaten with its own. Pokemon that are immune to water like Paras and Mantyke can come in and force Seel out. Paras, however, has to be wary of an Ice attack. That said anything that takes not very effective damage from Water type attacks should stand a good chance of countering Seel, especially if it happens to be carrying a move Seel is weak to. Seeing as most Seel don't run Hydration Duskull is also a decent counter due to its ability to take Seel's attacks and burn it with Will-o-wisp which will cripple it. On that note any Ghost carrying Will-o-wisp can counter Seel thanks to the free entry given by Fake Out.</p>
  2. dr00

    dr00

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    comments and edits in bold.

    another overall comment is your use of Pokemon, Pokes, and pokemon.
    i'm not sure if any of the slang are acceptable and i can't remember whether or not it should be capitalized, but you should be consistent with your usage.
  3. Brammi

    Brammi

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    I can remember reading that Pokemon always has to be capitalised. I'm not sure about Pokes. I have a tendancy to say that without meaning to. Thanks for the edits.
  4. dr00

    dr00

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    i just realized some of the punctuation edits aren't very noticeable with just the bold, so i've edited my post to have them in red.

    i also missed "defenses," now in red also
  5. Brammi

    Brammi

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    Need to make some Edits because of my noobness.

    EDIT- ignore my team options. I forgot that Seel is pure water.
  6. sbc

    sbc

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    I'd slash Aqua Tail in on the first set on Endure. Endure is fine and dandy, but it's useless if Hail is about, plus, you lack the ability to do any real damage to anything remotely bulky like Munchlax without Aqua Tail. I'd also test out Life Orb because, theorymoning, I'd guess that you'd appreciate a stronger Fake Out off the bat rather than probably only getting one turn out of a +1 attack (especially without a hard hitting move to go with it).

    Personally I'd end up going with

    Fake Out
    Aqua Jet
    Ice Shard
    Aqua Tail / Return
    @ Life Orb

    Finally, I'd try out some sort of douchebag set centred around Sub+Encore and see how feasible that is.
  7. Brammi

    Brammi

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    I have been testing the Priority set for a while now so it isn't really theorymon. I will have a look at the Aqua tail and Sub+Encore. I will probably try the second under rain first.
  8. Friar

    Friar

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    Theorymon here, but Sub + Encore sounds really awesome. Seel can draw Electric and Grass moves than can give dangerous sweepers a great chance to set up (Dratini / Paras / etc).
  9. Flora

    Flora Yep, that tasted purple!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor Alumnus
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    Grammar/Comments (open)
    Your layout is kinda wrong. Here, just copy/paste from my fixed version.

    Instead of this:

    [SET]
    Name: Revenge Killer
    Move 1: Fake Out
    Move 2: Aqua Jet
    Move 3: Ice Shard
    Move 4: Endure
    Item: Leichi Berry
    Ability: Thick Fat
    EVs: 236 Att / 236 Spe / 36 SpD
    Nature: Adamant

    It should look like this (not really counting the lower-cases, IDK about those):

    [SET]
    name: Revenge Killer
    move 1: Fake Out
    move 2: Aqua Jet
    move 3: Ice Shard
    move 4: Endure
    item: Leichi Berry
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 236 Atk / 36 SpD / 236 Spe

    EVs should be in order from HP / Atk / Def / SpA / SpD / Spe.

    <p>Priority is an amazingly useful tool in Little Cup battles. Seel may not be blessed with an amazing Attack stat; (semi-colon) however, (comma) it makes up for it with access to three forms of offensive priority. The extra priority of Ice Shard is the only thing that sets Seel apart from its fellow Aqua Jet abusers. This makes it much better at dealing with threats such as Croagunk and Paras, (comma) who would normally wall your Aqua Jet Pokemon.</p>

    <p>The use of this set is rather straightforward. Fake Out on the first turn for free damage. (this sounds like there should be another sentence following this; Fake Out and then use Endure?) The use of priority on the set allows safer use of the well known Endure/Pinch Berry combo. This allows Seel to raise its Attack stat to a much more acceptable 22. Once Seel has its boost, (comma) you can proceed to lay dents on your opponents team or, when used late game, can (remove) finish off weakened Pokemon thus helping you to (remove) close out the match.</p>

    <p>The Speed EVs may seem wasteful, but with the given EVs, Seel is able to Speed tie with other priority Pokemon in the 14 Speed tier. An alternate EV spread of 236 Att / 236 Def / 36 SpD, which is based more around bulk, is available and should be used if your team already has a way to deal with priority Croagunk. The thing to keep in mind when using this set is that Seel is in no way a priority sweeper as it lacks the raw power; it is instead only a revenge killer.</p>

    <p>First are Fake Out leads due to their ability to stop Stealth Rock being set down. (Why is this sentence here? I think you should remove it or rephrase it.) As a revenge killer, Seel will want to be able to come in more than once; (semi-colon) residual damage from entry hazards such as Stealth Rock will add up to Seel's death gradually (Maybe mention some Rapid Spinners that go with Seel here? Seel's also not weak to Stealth Rock due to no Ice-typing so I don't think it's that much of a deal.). Croagunk makes a good partner in crime. It resists Seel's Grass weakness (Seel only has two weaknesses) and can help Seel finish off weak opponents due to also having reliable priority. Croagunk is also immune to Water, a type that Seel has difficulty hurting.</p>

    <p>On that note (What note? Say it here.) Seel pairs well with Grass-types as they can come in on the Grass- and Electric-type attacks (deleted mention of Fighting because Seel isn't weak to Fighting). They are also obviously (delete) able to lay the hurt on enemy Water Pokemon. Notable Grass-types to note (remove) are Shroomish, (comma) who can cause switches (How?) and allow Seel to come in later to finish the job, (comma) and Bellsprout, (comma) who can come in on Grass-type and Electric-type attacks (Fighting is not super effective against Seel) so this (remove) that will be thrown at Seel, and threaten the Water Pokemon on both sides of the spectrum.</p>

    <p>Seel is for the most part hampered by its weakness to Stealth Rock (it does not have a weakness to SR). As such other Water-types can usually outclass it. Seel has the bulk and Physical movepool to attempt a Chioce Band set with Waterfall/Return/Ice Shard and Aqua Jet. It can also run a mixed Scarf set due to it reaching 14 Speed, thus reaching the magic Speed stat of 21 with the Choice Scarf.</p> (I think you should just re-write this paragraph, especially the beginning; fix the comparisons and other stuff here.)

    <p>Seel, as a result of its natural sturdiness, can also attempt to fill the supporting role. There are many Pokemon with better defenses; (semi-colon) however, (comma) there are few that can reliably use Encore. With Encore, (comma) Seel can open the way for a very dangerous sweep for Pokemon like Gastly (when Encoring a Grass-type move) or Chinchou (when Encoring an Electric-type move) by allowing them to be assured of coming in on a move that they are resistant or immune to.</p>

    <p>Its other ability, Hydration, isn't as useful in the fast paced metagame of Little Cup. If used on a Rain Dance team, (comma) it may be able to fit the role of a support Pokemon.</p>

    <p>Seel is a niche Pokemon. It can potentially fill numerous roles in your team; (semi-colon) however, (comma) it is overshadowed by Pokemon with either higher stats or better typing (might remove this?). That said, it is the only Pokemon in Little Cup that learns the combination of Aqua Jet, Ice Shard, and Fake Out. If you are going to use Seel, do so only after looking at whether or not another Pokemon is going to be able to do that job better.</p>

    <p>As already stated, (remove) Seel finds it difficult to lay serious damage on other Water-type Pokemon. Due to its unique typing, Chinchou gets a special mention for being able to both resist Seel's attacks and threaten with its own due to its unique typing (remove). Any Pokemon that is faster than Seel and is carrying either Mach Punch or Vacuum Wave is a potential counter such as Max Speed Croagunk who threaten Seel if Seel isn't running Speed EVs (not weak to Fighting).</p>

    <p>If Seel is running a Choice set, Pokemon that are immune to water like Paras and Mantyke can come in and force Seel out. Paras, however, has to be wary of a Choice Band Ice Shard or Blizzard under hail. Forcing Seel out will start to hurt it over time due to its weakness to Stealth Rock.</p> against the priority set.) (Why is this here? You don't mention using a Choice set in the analysis so removing this and parting the relevant parts into the top section may be good. Or, add another paragraph with Paras and Mantyke.)

    Nevertheless, thank you for your effort on posting an analysis. I've actually used this Seel in Little Cup myself and it's pretty cool (although I used Life Orb and Body Slam over Endure). You should research your Pokemon beforehand though; Seel doesn't have an Ice-typing/STAB on Ice Shard. http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-dp/086.shtml

    I probably didn't catch everything wrong here so don't look at me if your analysis isn't perfect yet. I may do a double check afterward, especially for content.
  10. Brammi

    Brammi

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    Thanks. Some of the stuff on Stealth rock is before I fixed it up after my forgetting it was pure water.

    Adding the slash with Aqua Tail.

    Sub/Encore set is so far slightly underwealming although it was able to completely destroy a lileep under sand and finish with setting my next sweeper up. Other than that it isn't really that great. I will continue testing though.
  11. Snorlaxe

    Snorlaxe 2 kawaii 4 u
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    Just so you know, this analysis isn't in the proper format. It needs an Overview section and the set comments + additional comments sections in the analysis. You can also ditch opinion. Look at other analysis in C&C to discover the proper format. ;)
  12. Brammi

    Brammi

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    Will patch this up with the proper format this weekend and then I will get back to working on this set. I have done the necessary testing.
  13. MegaKick

    MegaKick

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    You mention a stealth rock weakness - seel is pure water. So you should remove all comments of ice type, in cluding stealth rcok, and STAB ice shard
    meh, I need to learn to read the whole thread before I post <_<
  14. Brammi

    Brammi

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    Yep. I know that. I have already said that I needed to fix that up. Check back here after I finish the clean up this weekend.

    EDIT: The format has been rearranged to fit what is on the site. I think I have gotten rid of all those silly stab ice shard and sr weakness parts. I think it is ready for the proofreading stage before it gets put up.
  15. Dubulous

    Dubulous I look just like Buddy Holly.
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    ILoveLiza has informed me that he is no longer working on this analysis. As such, I am locking this and putting it back up for claim.
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