1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Seismitoad [Physically Defensive]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Cherub Agent, May 14, 2013.

  1. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent come at me winter
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,061
    i know that the specially defensive set mentions this in AC, but in my experience this one is far more effective in the current meta

    EDIT: SDef set will need to be edited

    [​IMG]

    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Scald
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Toxic / Knock Off
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Relaxed
    evs: 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Thanks to its excellent typing, useful ability, and good bulk, Seismitoad is extremely effective at running a physically-based defensive set. It matches up excellently against the most common users of Stealth Rock in the tier, those being Golem, Piloswine, Golurk, Regirock and Armaldo, all of which are weak to Seismitoad's STAB moves and attack from the physical side. In addition, their special bulk is average at best, meaning that Seismitoad can dispose of them easily with Scald. To truly appreciate just how effective Seismitoad is at taking on these Pokemon, it's only 3HKOed by Golurk, has a 25% chance to be 4HKOed by Golem, is 4HKOed by Piloswine, and is only 5HKOed by Armaldo, while Regirock cannot even touch it. These are all Pokemon with high Attack stats, generally full offensive investment, and using powerful Earthquakes. Being physically-based also makes Seismitoad the best counter to one of the most threatening Pokemon in the tier: Shell Smash Carracosta. However, Seismitoad is not limited to taking resisted hits; both Choice Band Sawk and Braviary fail to OHKO Seismitoad even after Stealth Rock and Spikes damage while Seismitoad can deal a powerful blow to Sawk's reduced defenses or burn them both with Scald.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock is an obvious choice on a Pokemon that matches up so well against the other Pokemon that set it up and outspeeds all of them even with a Relaxed nature. Major threats such as Scolipede, Jynx and Charizard hate having to lose so much of their HP when they switch in, and Seismitoad is extremely reliable at ensuring this happens. Scald is the obligatory Water-type STAB move of choice on a defensive Pokemon such as Seismitoad, and the high chance to burn the opponent makes Seismitoad even more of a full stop to physical attackers. Earthquake is the recommended move over Earth Power, as it OHKOes Jynx after Stealth Rock and generally deals more damage. The last slot is fairly variable. Toxic is the recommended choice, as bulky Grass-types, such as Serperior and Ludicolo, love to switch into Seismitoad but absolutely despise being badly poisoned. It's also an excellent way to wear down other bulky Water-types, such as Alomomola. Knock Off is a more colorful option that can be used to scout potential sets based on the opponent's item and is very handy for crippling the many Eviolite users that reside in the tier.</p>


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Protect is another interesting move to use in the last slot. It enables Seismitoad to regain more HP from Leftovers and again allows you to scout effectively and react accordingly. It's especially lethal if Seismitoad is paired with a Toxic Spikes user, as the extra turns to sap the opponent's HP can be crucial.</p>

    <p>The EVs on this set are fairly specific. Defense is maximized so that Seismitoad can take on the threats it's supposed to counter with maximum efficiency, while 200 HP EVs hit a Leftovers number. The 56 EVs in Special Defense insure that Seismitoad is never OHKOed by Hidden Power Grass from Life Orb Zebstrika and Electrode. It even has a good chance to avoid the OHKO after Stealth Rock damage and can proceed to OHKO both of them in return with Earthquake.</p>

    <p>Ideal teammates for Seismitoad will be able to switch into the Grass-type attacks targeted at it with little-to-no risk. Sap Sipper Pokemon, such as Miltank and Sawsbuck, can gain a boost to their Attack for free and then do as they please. Roselia has excellent defensive synergy with Seismitoad, as it takes next to nothing from Grass-type attacks and can strike back at their users with its STAB Sludge Bomb. It also handles special threats akin to how Seismitoad does physical ones and has the ability to set up additional entry hazards. Flying-types are also good partners for Seismitoad, as they can switch in on Grass-types easily and immediately threaten them with their STAB moves. Articuno, Braviary, and Charizard are notable examples, as Articuno has the sheer bulk and STAB combination to beat practically any Grass-type, Braviary can use them as setup fodder, and Charizard sports a quadruple resistance to Grass, while Seismitoad also covers all of Charizard's weaknesses perfectly. Other than that, it's really Seismitoad who supports the team and not the other way around.</p>
  2. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2011
    Messages:
    1,080
    pretty good skeleton. not much to say here.

    -change 56 SpDef to 56 SpD. SpD is the proper way to use write Special Defensive for this

    I'm a little bit torn between if Knock Off or Toxic should get the first slot on move 4, but I think I would have Toxic before Knock Off. Wait for other QC members to pitch their opinion before making that change.

    So for now just change SpDef to SpD and this is fine.

    [qc]1/3[/qc]
  3. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    NU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    3,440
    this set has been the bane of my existence lately.

    Toxic > Knock Off definitely
    [qc]2/3[/qc]
  4. FLCL

    FLCL
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Salon Maidenis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,203
    imo toxic is the better option since it generally makes more of an impact on the opponent's pokemon unless they are immune to it. also accidently knocking off something like zebstrika will actually be counterproductive since they can hit you super effectively without having to worry about being locked into a bad move.
  5. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken is it true what they say, that words are weapons?
    is a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    NU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3,206
    i think protect is worth a brief mention in ac; just point out that you can scout for choice mons (helpful with ape, jynx, sawk) as well as random hp grasses and also to gain additional recovery. it's especially good if you pair it with tspikes. not worthy of a slash or anything, i just thought it was a really good option on this.
  6. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent come at me winter
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,061
    added protect. this is now written up and ready for the last QC check
  7. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken is it true what they say, that words are weapons?
    is a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    NU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3,206
    [qc]3/3[/qc]
  8. melvni

    melvni
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,148
    GP check. Good job on writing this. Just remember that OHKOes and OHKOed are the verb form while OHKOs and OKHOd are the noun and you're pretty much good.
    Additions in Blue
    Subtractions in Red
    Comments in Purple

    Show Hide
    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Scald
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Toxic / Knock Off
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Relaxed
    evs: 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Thanks to its excellent typing, (add adjective for parallel structure) ability, and good bulk, Seismitoad is extremely effective at running a physically based defensive set. It has an excellent matchup matches up excellently against the other most common users of Stealth Rock in the tier (add comma) (the most common ones are Golem, Piloswine, Golurk, Regirock (add comma) and Armaldo), and all of them which are both weak to Seismitoad's STAB moves and attack from the physical side. In addition, their special bulk is average at best, meaning that Seismitoad can dispose of them easily with Scald. To truly appreciate just how effective Seismitoad is at taking on these other Pokemon, it's only 3HKOd 3HKOed by Golurk, has a 25% chance to be 4HKOd 4HKOed by Golem, is 4HKOd 4HKOed by Piloswine, and is only 5HKOd 5HKOed by Armaldo. (remove period) while Regirock literally cannot even touch it either way. And these are all Pokemon with high Attack stats, generally full EV investment, and using powerful STAB (Regirock and Armaldo) Earthquakes. Being physically based also makes Seismitoad the best counter to one of the most threatening Pokemon in the tier: Shell Smash Carracosta. But Seismitoad is not limited to taking resisted hits: (change to semicolon) both Choice Band Sawk and Braviary fail to OHKO Seismitoad even after Stealth Rock and Spikes damage, while it can then deal a powerful hit on blow to Sawk's reduced defenses or burn them both with Scald.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock is an obvious choice on a Pokemon that matches up so well against the other Pokemon that set it up, (remove comma) and Seismitoad outspeeds all of the them even with a Relaxed nature. Massive threats such as Scolipede, Jynx and Charizard hate having to lose so much of their HP when they switch in, and Seismitoad is extremely reliable at setting it up ensuring this happens. Scald is the obligatory Water-type STAB move of choice on a defensive Pokemon such as Seismitoad, and the high chance to burn the opponent makes Seismtoad Seismitoad even more of a full stop to physical attackers. Earthquake is the recommended move over Earth Power, as it OHKOs OHKOes Jynx after Stealth Rock, (remove comma) and generally deals more damage. The last slot is fairly variable. Toxic is the recommended choice as bulky Grass-types such as Serperior or and Ludicolo love to switch into Seismitoad, (remove comma) but absolutely despise being badly posioned poisoned. It's also an excellent way to wear down other bulky Water-types such as Alomomola. Knock Off is a more colorful option that can be used to scout potential sets based on the opponent's item, (remove comma) and is very handy for crippling the many Eviolite Pokemon users that reside in the tier.</p>


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Protect is another interesting move to use in the last slot. It helps Seismtioad Seismitoad regain more HP from Leftovers, (remove comma) and again allows you to scout effectively and react accordingly. It's especially lethal if Seismitoad is paired with a Toxic Spikes user, as the extra turns to sap the opponent's HP can be crucial.</p>

    <p>The EVs on this set are fairly specific. Defense is maximised maximized so that Seismtoad Seismitoad can take on the threats it's supposed to counter with maximum efficiency, while 200 HP EVs hit a Leftovers number. The 56 EVs in Special Defense insure that Seismitoad is never OHKOd OHKOed by Hidden Power Grass from Life Orb Zebstrika and Electrode. It even has a good chance to avoide avoid the OHKO after Stealth Rock damage, (remove comma) and can proceed to OHKO both of them in return with Earthquake.</p>

    <p>Ideal teammates for Seismtiaod Seismitoad will be able to switch into the Grass-type attacks targeted at it with little to no risk. Sap Sipper Pokemon such as Miltank and Sawsbuck can gain a boost to their attack for free and then do as they please. Roselia has excellent defensive synergy with Seismitoad as it takes next to nothing from Grass attacks and strikes can strike back at them their users with its STAB Sludge Bomb. It also handles special threats akin to how Seismitoad does physical ones, (remove comma) and also has the ability to set up additional entry hazards. Flying-types are also good partners to Seismtoad for Seismitoad as they can switch in on Grass-types easily and immediately threaten them with their STAB moves. Articuno, Braviary (add comma) and Charizard are notable examples, as Articuno has the sheer bulk and STAB combination to beat practically any Grass-type, Braviary can use them as setup fodder, and Charizard sports a quadruple resistance to Grass, while Seismitoad also covers all of Charizard's weaknesses perfectly. Other than that, it's really Seismitoad who supports the team, as both a physical wall and a lead, (leave this in if you want, but it seemed like you already said this enough times) and not the other way around.</p>


    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  9. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent come at me winter
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,061
    lol i'm a little rusty at writing analyses

    doesn't help that seismitoad is an absolute bitch to spell if you're a really fast typer

    thanks melvni, implemented n_n
  10. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,961
    diff (open)

    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Scald
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Toxic / Knock Off
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Relaxed
    evs: 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Thanks to its excellent typing, useful ability, and good bulk, Seismitoad is extremely effective at running a physically-(add hyphen)based defensive set. It matches up excellently against the most common users of Stealth Rock in the tier, those being Golem, Piloswine, Golurk, Regirock and Armaldo, all of which are weak to Seismitoad's STAB moves and attacks from the physical side in general. In addition, their special bulk is average at best, meaning that Seismitoad can dispose of them easily with Scald. To truly appreciate just how effective Seismitoad is at taking on these other Pokemon, it's only 3HKOed by Golurk, has a 25% chance to be 4HKOed by Golem, is 4HKOed by Piloswine, and is only 5HKOed by Armaldo, (AC) while Regirock cannot even touch it. And tThese are all Pokemon with high Attack stats, generally full EVoffensive investment, and using powerful Earthquakes. Being physically-(add hyphen)based also makes Seismitoad the best counter to one of the most threatening Pokemon in the tier: Shell Smash Carracosta. ButHowever, (AC) Seismitoad is not limited to taking resisted hits; both Choice Band Sawk and Braviary fail to OHKO Seismitoad even after Stealth Rock and Spikes damage,(RC) while Seismitoad can then deal a powerful blow to Sawk's reduced defenses or burn them both with Scald.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock is an obvious choice on a Pokemon that matches up so well against the other Pokemon that set it up and outspeeds all of them even with a Relaxed nature. Massivejor threats such as Scolipede, Jynx and Charizard hate having to lose so much of their HP when they switch in, and Seismitoad is extremely reliable at ensuring this happens. Scald is the obligatory Water-type STAB move of choice on a defensive Pokemon such as Seismitoad, and the high chance to burn the opponent makes Seismitoad even more of a full stop to physical attackers. Earthquake is the recommended move over Earth Power, as it OHKOes Jynx after Stealth Rock and generally deals more damage. The last slot is fairly variable. Toxic is the recommended choice, (AC) as bulky Grass-types, (AC) such as Serperior and Ludicolo, (AC) love to switch into Seismitoad but absolutely despise being badly poisoned. It's also an excellent way to wear down other bulky Water-types, (AC) such as Alomomola. Knock Off is a more colorful option that can be used to scout potential sets based on the opponent's item and is very handy for crippling the many Eviolite users that reside in the tier.</p>


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Protect is another interesting move to use in the last slot. It helpenables Seismitoad to regain more HP from Leftovers and again allows you to scout effectively and react accordingly. It's especially lethal if Seismitoad is paired with a Toxic Spikes user, as the extra turns to sap the opponent's HP can be crucial.</p>

    <p>The EVs on this set are fairly specific. Defense is maximized so that Seismitoad can take on the threats it's supposed to counter with maximum efficiency, while 200 HP EVs hit a Leftovers number. The 56 EVs in Special Defense insure that Seismitoad is never OHKOed by Hidden Power Grass from Life Orb Zebstrika and Electrode. It even has a good chance to avoid the OHKO after Stealth Rock damage and can proceed to OHKO both of them in return with Earthquake.</p>

    <p>Ideal teammates for Seismitoad will be able to switch into the Grass-type attacks targeted at it with little-(add hyphen)to-(add hyphen)no risk. Sap Sipper Pokemon, (AC) such as Miltank and Sawsbuck, (AC) can gain a boost to their aAttack for free and then do as they please. Roselia has excellent defensive synergy with Seismitoad, (AC) as it takes next-(add hyphen)to-(add hyphen)nothing from Grass-type attacks and can strike back at their users with its STAB Sludge Bomb. It also handles special threats akin to how Seismitoad does physical ones and has the ability to set up additional entry hazards. Flying-types are also good partners for Seismitoad, (AC) as they can switch in on Grass-types easily and immediately threaten them with their STAB moves. Articuno, Braviary, and Charizard are notable examples, as Articuno has the sheer bulk and STAB combination to beat practically any Grass-type, Braviary can use them as setup fodder, and Charizard sports a quadruple resistance to Grass, while Seismitoad also covers all of Charizard's weaknesses perfectly. Other than that, it's really Seismitoad who supports the team and not the other way around.</p>

    Nice job, the only real issues were with commas and hyphens. We can call this

    [gp]2/2[/gp]
  11. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent come at me winter
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,061
    thanks for the check, but there were two things i didnt implement

    they're not weak to attacks from the pshyical side in general, i said that they attack from the physical side, which is good for physically defensive seismitoad

    i'm pretty sure that this expression is used without hyphens
  12. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken is it true what they say, that words are weapons?
    is a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    NU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3,206

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)