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Seismitoad (Update) [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Dat Blast, Jul 8, 2013.

  1. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast vroom vroom
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    903
    Can't access old account, can't edit the old thread, made a new one, pls post here instead. This is now ready for QC checks!
    [​IMG]
    I TOAD you so!

    [Overview]

    <p>Seismitoad has several qualities that earn it a spot on many teams in NU. Its stats are very well-balanced, making it a threat to look out for both offensively and defensively. Its excellent bulk, Water / Ground typing, and incredibly useful ability in Water Absorb allow Seismitoad to serve as a capable defensive pivot. On the other hand, Seismitoad's access to powerful attacks, such as Hydro Pump and Earthquake, and Swift Swim ability ensure its capability as a sweeper and offensive tank as well. Its access to Stealth Rock only adds to its viability, as it functions incredibly well as a Stealth Rock setter thanks to its ability to threaten out a large majority of the tier and set it up. Unfortunately, Seismitoad's lack of reliable recovery severely hinders its ability to check multiple threats on a team; in other words, it's worn down quite easily, especially with the offensive nature of the metagame. While its typing might bless it with various resistances and immunities, it also burdens Seismitoad with a crippling 4x weakness to Grass that opponents can easily use to their advantage.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Utility
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Scald
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Toxic / Knock Off
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Relaxed
    evs: 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Thanks to its excellent typing, useful ability, and good bulk, Seismitoad is extremely effective with a physically based defensive set. It matches up excellently against the most common users of Stealth Rock in the tier: Golem, Piloswine, Golurk, Regirock, and Armaldo, all of which are weak to its STAB moves and are physical attackers. In addition, their special bulk is average at best, meaning that Seismitoad can dispose of them easily with Scald. To truly appreciate just how effective Seismitoad is at taking on these Pokemon, it's only 3HKOed by Golurk, has a 25% chance to be 4HKOed by Golem, is 4HKOed by Piloswine, and is only 5HKOed by Armaldo, while Regirock cannot even touch it. These are all Pokemon with high Attack stats, generally full offensive investment, and powerful Earthquakes. Being physically based also makes Seismitoad the best counter to one of the most threatening Pokemon in the tier: Shell Smash Carracosta. However, Seismitoad is not limited to taking resisted hits; both Choice Band Sawk and Braviary fail to OHKO it even after Stealth Rock and Spikes damage, while Seismitoad can deal a powerful blow to Sawk's reduced defenses or potentially burn them both with Scald.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock is an obvious choice on a Pokemon that matches up so well against the other Pokemon that set it up and outspeeds all of them even with a Relaxed nature. Major threats such as Scolipede, Jynx, and Charizard hate having to lose so much of their HP when they switch in, and Seismitoad is extremely reliable at ensuring this happens. Scald is the obligatory STAB move of choice on a defensive Water-type Pokemon such as Seismitoad, and the relatively high chance to burn the opponent makes Seismitoad even more of a full stop to physical attackers. Earthquake is the recommended move over Earth Power, as it OHKOes Jynx after Stealth Rock and generally deals more damage. The last slot is fairly variable. Toxic is the recommended choice, as bulky Grass-types, such as Serperior and Ludicolo, love to switch into Seismitoad but absolutely despise being badly poisoned. It's also an excellent way to wear down other bulky Water-types, such as Alomomola. Knock Off is a more colorful option that can be used to scout potential sets based on the opponent's item and is very handy for crippling the many Eviolite users that reside in the tier.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Protect is another possible move to use in the last slot. It enables Seismitoad to regain more HP from Leftovers and again allows you to scout effectively and react accordingly. More specifically, it allows Seismitoad to check for any random Hidden Power Grasses or Grass Knots from the likes of Samurott and opposing Seismitoad. It's especially lethal if Seismitoad is paired with a Toxic Spikes user, as the extra turns to whittle the opponent's HP can be crucial.</p>

    <p>The EVs on this set are fairly specific. Defense is maximized so that Seismitoad can take on the threats it's supposed to counter with maximum efficiency, while 200 HP EVs hit a Leftovers number. The 56 EVs in Special Defense ensure that Seismitoad is never OHKOed by Hidden Power Grass from Life Orb Zebstrika and Electrode. It even has a good chance to avoid the OHKO after Stealth Rock damage and can proceed to OHKO both of them in return with Earthquake. A specially defensive EV spread is viable and helps Seismitoad better check the likes of Electric-types and Jynx, but it loses the ability to beat opposing Stealth Rock leads as well as Shell Smash Carracosta. Some Speed EVs are also an option, with 24 coupled with either a Bold or Impish nature allowing Seismitoad to outspeed maximum Speed Golem, but this detracts from either Scald or Earthquake's power and Seismitoad is capable of defeating Golem regardless.</p>

    <p>Ideal teammates for Seismitoad will be able to switch into the Grass-type attacks targeted at it with little to no risk. Sap Sipper Pokemon, such as Miltank and Sawsbuck, can gain a boost to their Attack for free and then do as they please. Roselia has excellent defensive synergy with Seismitoad, as it takes next to nothing from Grass-type attacks and can strike back at their users with its STAB Sludge Bomb. It also handles special threats akin to how Seismitoad takes care of physical ones and has the ability to set up additional entry hazards. Metang is another solid choice for a teammate, with the two covering each other's weaknesses nicely and Metang's access to Stealth Rock freeing Seismitoad to use another move in lieu of it. Flying-types are also good partners, as they can switch in on Grass-types easily and immediately threaten them with their STAB moves. Articuno, Braviary, and Charizard are notable examples, as Articuno has the sheer bulk and STAB combination to beat practically any Grass-type, Braviary can use them as setup fodder, and Charizard sports a quadruple resistance to Grass, while Seismitoad also covers all of Charizard's weaknesses perfectly. Other than that, it's really Seismitoad who supports the team and not the other way around.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Stealth Rock
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Earth Power
    move 4: Toxic / Grass Knot
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Modest
    evs: 232 HP / 252 SpA / 24 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set takes a more offensive approach to setting up Stealth Rock in order to take advantage of its excellent offensive typing, while still matching up brilliantly against opposing Stealth Rock leads. With the combination of its two STABs, Seismitoad is capable of taking down nearly every Stealth Rock lead in the tier barring the rare Torterra and Cradily, effectively turning it into a powerful anti-lead. While it certainly can't stomach Earthquakes as well as more defensive sets can, it really doesn't need to, as its higher offensive presence allows it to take down opposing leads in one or two hits.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock is a staple on this set, as Seismitoad is such a reliable setter of it and can then follow up with a powerful attack. While Seismitoad does somewhat lack power, Hydro Pump's high Base Power more than makes up for this, making quick work of common leads such as Golurk, Golem, Piloswine, Armaldo, and Regirock. Earth Power is Seismitoad's chosen Ground STAB, notably hitting Steel-types such as Metang, Probopass, and Bastiodon, none of which can do much in return. Finally, the last moveslot is generally reserved for Toxic, deterring bulky walls and Grass-types from switching in, as the chip damage can go a long way in ensuring one doesn't get swept by the likes of Ludicolo and Serperior. Grass Knot, on the other hand, is a viable coverage move that adds to Seismitoad's ability as an anti-lead; while it doesn't appear to provide much in coverage, it punishes opposing Seismitoad, which in itself makes it viable. Aside from that, though, Toxic is the more useful choice.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread allows Seismitoad to outspeed maximum Speed Golem, maximizes power, and puts the rest into bulk to give it a bit more longevity. Maximum Speed investment can be used, but as Seismitoad's main goal is to take down opposing Stealth Rock leads, it isn't necessary. Leftovers further capitalizes on Seismitoad's good natural bulk, allowing it to take random hits with less pressure. To players who are less conservative and more focused on OHKOing certain leads, Expert Belt is an interesting item choice to consider; this makes Seismitoad capable of OHKOing standard Piloswine with Hydro Pump. This especially comes in handy when using Grass Knot, allowing Seismitoad to OHKO opposing bulky Seismitoad. On that note, Life Orb is an even more offensive approach that powers up all of Seismitoad's attacks; this, however, does not bring any notable KOs along with it, and it detracts from Seismitoad's tanking abilities.</p>

    <p>The fourth moveslot can also vary somewhat from Toxic and Grass Knot, with some honorable mentions including Hidden Power Ice and Sludge Bomb. Hidden Power Ice is most notable for hitting Torterra and Cradily, the two Stealth Rock leads Seismitoad is not capable of beating otherwise, for super effective damage. While it does improve Seismitoad's coverage quite a bit, neither of these Pokemon are common enough to warrant its use, and it still fails to 2HKO Cradily anyway. Sludge Bomb also provides decent coverage, most notably against Ludicolo. However, this does not help Seismitoad achieve any KOs against opposing leads, and it shouldn't be staying in on Ludicolo anyway.</p>

    <p>Seismitoad can set up Stealth Rock, prevent the opponent from setting up their own Stealth Rock, and easily dispose of its common setters. Because of this, any Pokemon that can take advantage of all of this is a quality partner. Braviary, Charizard, and Jynx are some of the best examples of this, all handily appreciating Seismitoad's services and in return easily dealing with Grass-types, foes which Seismitoad quickly falls to. This set finds its home mainly on offensive teams that enjoy the Stealth Rock support it provides without losing momentum. Seismitoad does not outstall the opponent through sheer bulk like defensive sets do; it uses its natural bulk to tank one or two hits and its greater power to make KOing them easier.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Swift Swim
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Stealth Rock / Sludge Bomb
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Mild
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is the most offensive approach to Seismitoad you can take and is its best shot at sweeping. While it might have inferior offensive stats and a narrower offensive movepool than other Swift Swim sweepers such as Gorebyss and Ludicolo, Seismitoad has two qualities that set it apart from its competition: an immunity to Electric and access to Stealth Rock. This can be key for many dedicated rain teams, who would often otherwise lack both. While there are often better choices for standalone rain sweepers, Seismitoad plays the role of both a supporter and a sweeper, and it pulls it off well.</p>

    <p>Rain Dance is the obvious focus of the set; doubling Seismitoad's Speed and significantly increasing its power is mandatory to begin its sweep. Also, because Seismitoad often finds itself paired up with other rain sweepers, they can often pick up each other's slack should one of them be taken down. Hydro Pump is the obvious Water STAB, hitting extremely hard when factoring in rain and the Life Orb boost. Earthquake is the recommended Ground STAB on this set&mdash;while it does split Seismitoad's offenses and forces it to run a Defense-lowering nature, it boasts the ability to OHKO and 2HKO Jynx and Roselia, respectively, two huge threats to rain teams. Finally, Stealth Rock is an extremely useful move in the last slot, allowing Seismitoad to support its team and still be able to reliably sweep in the rain. As many rain teams often lack a Stealth Rock setter, it's also a massive selling point in that regard. That said, if your team does already have a Stealth Rock setter, Sludge Bomb provides great coverage alongside Seismitoad's STABs, notably hitting Grass-types for super effective damage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>With maximum Speed investment, Seismitoad can outspeed everything up to +1 base 100 Speed Pokemon in the rain, and the rest of the EVs emphasize on power. A Mild nature secures the OHKO on Jynx and 2HKO on Roselia with Earthquake, no entry hazards required, and preserves Seismitoad's Special Defense, as it is usually the main check to Electric-types on a rain team. A Rash nature can preserve its physical Defense and helps it tank stray Stone Edges and Earthquakes better. This is not usually necessary, though, as rain teams always carry more than one Rock- and Ground-type check on their team, and taking hits from Electric-types better is far more important.</p>

    <p>Surf continues the never-ending debate of power vs. accuracy; in this case, however, the power of Hydro Pump has priority as Seismitoad is not the strongest attacker around. Earth Power can be used with a Modest nature to make use of the set's higher Special Attack investment, and at the same time preserve its physical bulk. Despite this, Earthquake is still the superior option, as the ability to defeat Jynx and Roselia is not found on many other rain sweepers in the tier. Hidden Power Ice is an option over Stealth Rock and Sludge Bomb; like Sludge Bomb, it hits most Grass-types for super effective damage, but it also has the added effect of KOing Altaria, who would wall this set otherwise. Unfortunately, it misses out on hitting Ludicolo, the most common Grass-type in the metagame, and often fails to do enough damage to Grass-types anyway. Finally, if Life Orb's recoil doesn't appeal to you, Damp Rock and Leftovers are viable alternatives. Both have unique traits surrounding them, with the former extending rain turns and the latter increasing longevity. The power boost from Life Orb is far more important, though, and as this set plays a bit more recklessly than others, Life Orb recoil is often negligible.</p>

    <p>As stated before, this Seismitoad works best on dedicated rain teams thanks to its access to both Stealth Rock and Rain Dance, and its partners should reflect that. Articuno and Jynx are two prime examples of such&mdash;dealing with problematic Grass-types easily as well as benefitting from rain through a 100% accurate Hurricane and Dry Skin, respectively. Roselia and Vileplume also pair up with Seismitoad well; not only do they 4x resist Grass and can retaliate back with STAB Sludge Bomb, but they also enjoy the rain thanks to having their Fire weakness removed. Finally, Ludicolo is an excellent partner for this set, as it absolutely loves having both rain and Stealth Rock already set up when it enters the field and in general shares great offensive synergy with Seismitoad.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Seismitoad does have a rather shallow movepool (even lacking moves such as Waterfall and Ice Beam), and most of its options have already been covered. RestTalk is Seismitoad's only form of recovery, but RestTalk is far too unreliable to work and often ends up doing more harm than good due to forcing Seismitoad to give up two valuable moveslots. Focus Blast can be used on the offensive sets to provide coverage against Normal-types, such as Lickilicky and Audino. Unfortunately, they are both bulky enough that they can take Focus Blast and heal it off, so it doesn't help much at all. Seismitoad's physical movepool is relatively expansive, with access to moves such as Earthquake, Drain Punch, Ice Punch, and Rock Slide, so a fully physical set sounds decent at first. The lack of a Water-type STAB is rather disappointing, though. Likewise, a mixed set using moves such as Hydro Pump, Earthquake, Sludge Bomb, and Drain Punch sounds plausible, but it doesn't end up accomplishing anything Seismitoad's other sets can't already do.</p>

    <p>A special mention goes to a set carrying both Substitute and Toxic, allowing Seismitoad to systematically break down walls such as Alomomola. It does, however, detract from Seismitoad's sweeping potential quite a bit. It's still a perfectly viable set, though; it just doesn't differentiate itself enough to warrant its own set. Another interesting choice is the combination of Substitute and Endeavor, allowing Seismitoad to lure in and defeat many of its counters; this is somewhat difficult to pull off, however, and detracts from Seismitoad's utility. Poison Touch might sound interesting on physical sets, but in reality it is just straight-up outclassed by Seismitoad's other two abilities. Rindo Berry is an interesting item, particularly on the more defensive sets; it allows Seismitoad to survive one Grass-type move and proceed to do what it likes. However, this does not make up for a lack of Leftovers, and it only works once. Finally, Choice Specs is usable, but it is inferior to other offensive sets, as they boast far more utility.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As it stands, Grass-types are the best clear-cut answers to Seismitoad; not only do they resist its STAB combination, but they can OHKO in return with their STABs. A Grass / Poison-type, such as Vileplume, fares even better against Seismitoad&mdash;not only is it not weak to Sludge Bomb, but it is immune to Toxic as well, leaving Seismitoad with near no hope of emerging victorious. As Seismitoad is not overly powerful, special walls generally fare well against it. Lickilicky and Altaria are two prime example of this, thanks to their ability to take Seismitoad's attacks with ease and heal off Toxic with Heal Bell. Mantine is basically a complete stop to any Seismitoad; it is immune to both its STABs, can heal off Toxic thanks to Rest, and can whittle away at Seismitoad's health with Air Slash. Regice is another great counter to Seismitoad, not fearing Toxic thanks to Rest and taking it down with a few Ice Beams. Jynx is also an excellent check thanks to Dry Skin and the ability to threaten it with Lovely Kiss, though it does fear Earthquake. Finally, residual damage&mdash;in addition to simply pounding away at it with powerful attacks&mdash;is effective at wearing down Seismitoad, as its lack of reliable recovery can easily be used against it.</p>

    Code:
    [Overview][/COLOR]
    [LIST]
    [*]Great balance of stats to make it a legitimate offensive/defensive threat
    [*]Cool Water/Ground typing, Water Absorb and great bulk allows it to serve as a great bulky pivot
    [*]Offensive stats aren’t outstanding, but has high-power moves to make up for it (Hydro Pump, Earth Power/Earthquake, etc.) and Swift Swim
    [*]Potent supporter/sweeper in NU
    [*]Lacks reliable recovery/worn down easily especially with the offensive nature of the meta
    [*]Crippling 4x weakness to Grass
    [*]Still one of the best mons in NU thanks to its well-rounded stats, key resistances/immunities, and good movepool
    [/LIST]
    [COLOR=black][SET]
    name: Utility
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Scald
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Toxic / Knock Off
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Relaxed
    evs: 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 SpD[/COLOR][/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black][COLOR=black][SET COMMENTS][/COLOR][/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black][COLOR=black]<p>Thanks to its excellent typing, useful ability, and good bulk, Seismitoad is extremely effective at running a physically-based defensive set. It matches up excellently against the most common users of Stealth Rock in the tier, those being Golem, Piloswine, Golurk, Regirock and Armaldo, all of which are weak to Seismitoad's STAB moves and attack from the physical side. In addition, their special bulk is average at best, meaning that Seismitoad can dispose of them easily with Scald. To truly appreciate just how effective Seismitoad is at taking on these Pokemon, it's only 3HKOed by Golurk, has a 25% chance to be 4HKOed by Golem, is 4HKOed by Piloswine, and is only 5HKOed by Armaldo, while Regirock cannot even touch it. These are all Pokemon with high Attack stats, generally full offensive investment, and using powerful Earthquakes. Being physically-based also makes Seismitoad the best counter to one of the most threatening Pokemon in the tier: Shell Smash Carracosta. However, Seismitoad is not limited to taking resisted hits; both Choice Band Sawk and Braviary fail to OHKO Seismitoad even after Stealth Rock and Spikes damage while Seismitoad can deal a powerful blow to Sawk's reduced defenses or burn them both with Scald.</p>[/COLOR][/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black][COLOR=black]<p>Stealth Rock is an obvious choice on a Pokemon that matches up so well against the other Pokemon that set it up and outspeeds all of them even with a Relaxed nature. Major threats such as Scolipede, Jynx and Charizard hate having to lose so much of their HP when they switch in, and Seismitoad is extremely reliable at ensuring this happens. Scald is the obligatory Water-type STAB move of choice on a defensive Pokemon such as Seismitoad, and the high chance to burn the opponent makes Seismitoad even more of a full stop to physical attackers. Earthquake is the recommended move over Earth Power, as it OHKOes Jynx after Stealth Rock and generally deals more damage. The last slot is fairly variable. Toxic is the recommended choice, as bulky Grass-types, such as Serperior and Ludicolo, love to switch into Seismitoad but absolutely despise being badly poisoned. It's also an excellent way to wear down other bulky Water-types, such as Alomomola. Knock Off is a more colorful option that can be used to scout potential sets based on the opponent's item and is very handy for crippling the many Eviolite users that reside in the tier.</p>[/COLOR][/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black][COLOR=black][ADDITIONAL COMMENTS][/COLOR][/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black][COLOR=black]<p>Protect is another interesting move to use in the last slot. It enables Seismitoad to regain more HP from Leftovers and again allows you to scout effectively and react accordingly. It's especially lethal if Seismitoad is paired with a Toxic Spikes user, as the extra turns to sap the opponent's HP can be crucial.</p>[/COLOR][/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black][COLOR=black]<p>The EVs on this set are fairly specific. Defense is maximized so that Seismitoad can take on the threats it's supposed to counter with maximum efficiency, while 200 HP EVs hit a Leftovers number. The 56 EVs in Special Defense insure that Seismitoad is never OHKOed by Hidden Power Grass from Life Orb Zebstrika and Electrode. It even has a good chance to avoid the OHKO after Stealth Rock damage and can proceed to OHKO both of them in return with Earthquake. A specially defensive EV spread is viable, and helps Seismitoad better check the likes of Electric-types and Jynx, but Seismitoad loses the ability to beat opposing Stealth Rock leads as well as Shell Smash Carracosta.</p>[/COLOR][/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black][COLOR=black]<p>Ideal teammates for Seismitoad will be able to switch into the Grass-type attacks targeted at it with little-to-no risk. Sap Sipper Pokemon, such as Miltank and Sawsbuck, can gain a boost to their Attack for free and then do as they please. Roselia has excellent defensive synergy with Seismitoad, as it takes next to nothing from Grass-type attacks and can strike back at their users with its STAB Sludge Bomb. It also handles special threats akin to how Seismitoad does physical ones and has the ability to set up additional entry hazards. Flying-types are also good partners for Seismitoad, as they can switch in on Grass-types easily and immediately threaten them with their STAB moves. Articuno, Braviary, and Charizard are notable examples, as Articuno has the sheer bulk and STAB combination to beat practically any Grass-type, Braviary can use them as setup fodder, and Charizard sports a quadruple resistance to Grass, while Seismitoad also covers all of Charizard's weaknesses perfectly. Other than that, it's really Seismitoad who supports the team and not the other way around.</p>[/COLOR][/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black][SET]
    name: Offensive Stealth Rock
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Earth Power
    move 4: Toxic / Grass Knot
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Modest
    evs: 232 HP / 252 SpA / 24 Spe[/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black][FONT=Georgia][COLOR=#141414][SET COMMENTS][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black][LIST]
    [*][COLOR=#141414][FONT=Georgia]Trades in bulk for power to utilize its great offensive typing[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black][*][COLOR=#141414][FONT=Georgia]Typing allows it to destroy nearly every SR lead bar Torterra/the rare Cradily, making it a good anti-lead[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black][*][COLOR=#141414][FONT=Georgia]Stealth Rock for support; works great on this set b/c Toad has such an easy time with most other SR setters[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black][*][COLOR=#141414][FONT=Georgia]Hydro Pump decimates Golurk, Golem, Piloswine, Armaldo, Regirock and is Toad's strongest STAB[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black][*][COLOR=#141414][FONT=Georgia]Earth Power nails Metang, Probopass, Bastiodon[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black][*][COLOR=#141414][FONT=Georgia]Toxic for walls/Grasses[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black][*][COLOR=#141414][FONT=Georgia]Preferred coverage move is Grass Knot to smash standard Seismitoad[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black][/LIST]
    [FONT=Georgia][COLOR=#141414][ADDITIONAL COMMENTS][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black][LIST]
    [*]EVs outspeed max Speed Golem, maximize power, and the rest goes into bulk
    [*][COLOR=#141414][FONT=Georgia]Lefties for passive recovery, as Toad still has good natural bulk[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black][*][COLOR=#141414][FONT=Georgia]Ebelt lands an OHKO w/ Hydro Pump/Grass Knot against Pilo/opposing Toad, respectively (Ebelt > Lefties w/ Grass Knot)[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black][*][COLOR=#141414][FONT=Georgia]Life Orb can further increase power, but doesn't gain any notable KOs and detracts from Toad's bulk[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black][*][COLOR=#141414][FONT=Georgia]HP Ice hits Torterra/Cradily for SE damage, but both are too rare to warrant its use and still fails to 2HKO Cradily[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black][*][COLOR=#141414][FONT=Georgia]Sludge Bomb gets good coverage[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black][*][COLOR=#141414][FONT=Georgia]Toad can set up SR, prevent opposing leads from setting up their SR, and quickly dispose of them[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black][*][COLOR=#141414][FONT=Georgia]Teammates that enjoy all of this (Jynx, Charizard, Braviary) appreciate Toad's services and in return can easily handle Grass-types[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black][*][COLOR=#141414][FONT=Georgia]Works best on offensive teams that enjoy SR support/dislike losing momentum[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=black][/LIST]
    [COLOR=black][SET]
    name: Swift Swim
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Stealth Rock / Sludge Bomb
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Mild
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe[/COLOR][/COLOR]
     
    [COLOR=black][COLOR=black][SET COMMENTS][/COLOR]
    [LIST]
    [*]Has several attributes that set it apart from other rain sweepers (immunity to Electric, access to Stealth Rock)
    [*]Rain Dance is the crux of the set, doubling Toad’s Speed/increasing the power of its Water STAB
    [*]Hydro Pump is Toad’s strongest Water STAB, hitting quite hard under the rain
    [*]EQ is the chosen Ground STAB as it hits Jynx/Roselia hard, OHKOing and 2HKOing respectively
    [*]SR lets Toad be more of a supporting sweeper, and is one of the set’s biggest selling points
    [*]If something else on your team already has SR, Sludge Bomb can hit Grass-types
    [/LIST]
    [COLOR=black][ADDITIONAL COMMENTS][/COLOR]
    [LIST]
    [*]With maximum Speed investment, Toad outspeeds +1 base 100s in the rain and the rest maximizes power
    [*]Surf > Hydro Pump for the accuracy
    [*]Earth Power can be used over Earthquake, but doesn’t generally do anything EQ can’t
    [*]HP Ice can be used in the last slot to hit Altaria and still hits most Grass-types hard, but misses out on Ludicolo, the most common Grass-type in the meta
    [*]Damp Rock/Leftovers can extend rain turns/increase survivablity, respectively, but Toad needs the extra power from LO much more
    [*]Works well on full rain teams as it can support its team with both SR and Rain Dance
    [*]Articuno is a good partner, as it deals with Grass-types easily and benefits from rain w/ Hurricane
    [*]Grass-types like Roselia/Vileplume can take Grass moves with ease and retaliate back w/ Sludge Bomb
    [*]Ludicolo also highly appreciates the rain and SR support Toad provides, and has good offensive synergy with it
    [/LIST]
    [COLOR=black][Other Options][/COLOR]
    [LIST]
    [*]SubToxic lets Toad defeat walls more easily
    [*]RestTalk is Toad’s only form of recovery, but is an unreliable strategy and forces Toad to give up two valuable moveslots
    [*]Grass Knot can hit bulky Waters, but doesn’t provide much else otherwise
    [*]Focus Blast can hit Normals, but doesn’t do much to them anyway
    [*]Has a decently wide physical movepool w/ stuff like Drain Punch, Ice Punch, Rock Slide, etc. so a fully physical set is plausible, but the lack of a Water STAB is disappointing
    [*]Mixed set sounds plausible, but doesn't accomplish anything in the long run
    [*]Poison Touch is inferior to its other two abilities
    [*]Rindo Berry lets it survive a Grass-type move and retaliate back, but is rather situational and only works once
    [*]Choice Specs is usable, but inferior to other offensive sets
    [*]Not much else
    [/LIST]
    [COLOR=black][Checks and Counters][/COLOR]
    [LIST]
    [*]Grass-types resist its STABs, retaliate back, etc.
    [*]Grass/Poisons fare even better as they aren’t weak to Sludge Bomb and are immune to Toxic
    [*]Special walls like Lickilicky, Altaria, etc. can take Toad’s attacks with ease and wear it down
    [*]Mantine is immune to both its STABs, heals off Toxic w/ Rest and can whittle it down w/ Air Slash
    [*]Jynx w/ Dry Skin handles any set w/o Earthquake and threatens w/ Lovely Kiss
    [*]Residual damage of any kind really wears down Toad as it has no form of recovery
    [/LIST]
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
  2. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast vroom vroom
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    Finally filled in all the details for Offensive SR and SubToxic. This is now ready for QC! :)

    Btw the original thread (a link to that here) still needs to go into Locked & Outdated
  3. Namso

    Namso
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    My two cents.

    Rename the offensive Stealth Rock set to just "Offensive" and add Substitute as a slash with Stealth Rock, making it in slot 4 obviously. I don't understand the purpose of the SubToxic set to be honest. What are you using it for? The Pokemon you listed aren't sufficient examples. Alomomola doesn't like Earth Power and Tangela and Ludicolo are wrecked by Sludge Wave. Furthermore, Seismitoad doesn't have recovery outside of Leftovers which makes it a worse Toxic staller than things like Mandibuzz and Alomomola. Substitute + 3 attacks is a lot more effective honestly, which is what I personally would like to see combined with the offensive SR set.

    You can also mention that Seismitoad can run a relatively decent mixed set using Hydro Pump, Earthquake, Drain Punch, and Sludge Wave. The EV spread I used was 240 Atk / 252 SpA / 16 Spe with a Rash nature. I haven't extensively tested it (only used it like 3 times but dropped Seismi since it didn't fit my team) to warrant its own set, but it can be noted in OO. Feel free to try it yourself and deem wether its worth writing it up or not.
  4. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast vroom vroom
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    Imo, the Offensive SR and Sub set should stay as separate sets. They work a lot differently from each other and should be treated as such. I'll leave your suggestion of Sub + 3 attacks > SubToxic up to QC, if they agree with you I'll gladly put it up. :)

    I also mentioned of the mixed set to OO, it looks usable it doesn't seem to really do anything the other offensive sets can't. Thanks anyway for the suggestion though!
  5. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    SubToxic shouldn't be a whole set, its just a nifty thing Toad can do. It's good in OO.
    Sludge Bomb should be AC in Offensive Stealth Rock set, and the second move should be Toxic imo.
    Grass Knot is mentioned in a set and shouldn't be OO

    after that 1/3 i think this is good
  6. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    As I was the one who brought up the Offensive SR set I'd like to change up the EVs and a few more things.

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Stealth Rock
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Earth Power
    move 4: Toxic / Grass Knot
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Modest
    evs: 232 HP / 252 SpA / 24 Spe

    With Sludge Bomb and Expert Belt in AC. EVs are now 24 Spe to outspeed max Speed Golem with the extra EVs placed in HP. This is still plenty offensive but now also takes advantage of its good bulk. When talking about EBelt in AC you can also mention the max Speed version if you want and Grass Knot being a better choice than Toxic in the case of EBelt.

    I agree with Raseri on SubToxic. Just fix the things I mentioned above and you can have my stamp.

    QC Approved 2/3
    FLCL likes this.
  7. Dat Blast

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    Wow it's been a while since anyone's touched this, oh well w/e

    Anyways I'll get this written up ASAP :)
  8. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast vroom vroom
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    K, written up and ready for the 3rd QC check! :)
  9. Annoyer

    Annoyer =)~

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    mention a subendeavor set in oo just as a nifty tool it can use
    mention that metang makes a good partner with seismitoad in that both cover each others weaknesses pretty well and allows toad to not have to run sr
    mention that protect specifically allows you to scout for grass knots from other toads or random hp grasses from like samurott or rotom-s
    add regice to checks and counters because its basically a hard stop to all seismitoad sets as it also runs resttalk to ruin any attempts of toxic stalling
    mention that seismitoad can run 24 spe to outspeed max speed golem on the first set in ac

    looks really good qc 3/3
  10. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast vroom vroom
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    OK, implemented Annoyer's changes (and removed "crux" from Swift Swim so tennis doesn't hunt me) so this should be ready for GP!
  11. Oglemi

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  12. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast vroom vroom
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    OK, all the curly quotes should be gone now!

    I'm really sorry this keeps happening, but I finally got on my lazy ass to change the formatting in Word so hopefully this won't happen again! :$
  13. melvni

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    @melvni hi me @Dat Blast GP check done.
    Additions in Blue
    Subtractions in Red
    Comments in Purple
    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>Seismitoad has a plethora of redeeming qualities that earn it a spot on many teams in NU. Its stats are that of great balance incredibly (or an adjective you prefer / think is more accurate) balanced, making it a threat to look out for both offensively and defensively. Its excellent bulk, Water / Ground typing, and incredibly useful ability in Water Absorb allow it to serve as a capable defensive pivot. On the other hand, its access to powerful attacks, such as Hydro Pump and Earthquake, and Swift Swim ability ensure its capability as a sweeper and offensive tank as well. Its access to Stealth Rock only adds to its viability, functioning as it functions incredibly well as a Stealth Rock setter thanks to its ability to threaten out a large majority of the tier and set it up. Seismitoad is not without its flaws, (remove comma) however. Its lack of reliable recovery severely hinders its ability to check multiple threats on a team; in other words, it's worn down quite easily, especially with the continuous rise of offense in the metagame. While its typing may might bless it with various resistances and immunities, it also burdens it with a crippling 4x weakness to Grass which the opponent that its opponents can quickly easily use to their advantage. Despite this, Seismitoad's positives far outshine its negatives, and its excellence in the tier cannot be denied.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Utility
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Scald
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Toxic / Knock Off
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Relaxed
    evs: 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Thanks to its excellent typing, useful ability, and good bulk, Seismitoad is extremely effective at running a physically-based physically based defensive set. It matches up excellently against the most common users of Stealth Rock in the tier, those being Golem, Piloswine, Golurk, Regirock (add comma) and Armaldo, all of which are weak to Seismitoad's its STAB moves and attack from the physical side physically. In addition, their special bulk is average at best, meaning that Seismitoad can dispose of them easily with Scald. To truly appreciate just how effective Seismitoad is at taking on these Pokemon, it's only 3HKOed by Golurk, has a 25% chance to be 4HKOed by Golem, is 4HKOed by Piloswine, and is only 5HKOed by Armaldo, while and Regirock cannot even touch it. These are all Pokemon with high Attack stats, generally full offensive investment, and using powerful Earthquakes. Being physically-based physically based also makes Seismitoad the best counter to one of the most threatening Pokemon in the tier: Shell Smash Carracosta. However, Seismitoad is not limited to taking resisted hits; both Choice Band Sawk and Braviary fail to OHKO Seismitoad it even after Stealth Rock and Spikes damage (add comma) while and Seismitoad can deal a powerful blow to Sawk's reduced defenses or burn them both with Scald.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock is an obvious choice on a Pokemon that matches up so well against the other Pokemon that set it up and outspeeds all of them even with a Relaxed nature. Major threats such as Scolipede, Jynx (add comma) and Charizard hate having to lose so much of their HP when they switch in, and Seismitoad is extremely reliable at ensuring this happens. Scald is the obligatory Water-type STAB move of choice on a defensive Water-type Pokemon such as Seismitoad, and the relatively high chance to burn the opponent makes Seismitoad even more of a full stop to physical attackers. Earthquake is the recommended move over Earth Power, as it OHKOes Jynx after Stealth Rock and generally deals more damage. The last slot is fairly variable. Toxic is the recommended choice, as bulky Grass-types, such as Serperior and Ludicolo, love to switch into Seismitoad but absolutely despise being badly poisoned. It's also an excellent way to wear down other bulky Water-types, such as Alomomola. Knock Off is a more colorful option that can be used to scout potential sets based on the opponent's item and is very handy for crippling the many Eviolite users that reside in the tier.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Protect is another interesting possible move to use in the last slot. It enables Seismitoad to regain more HP from Leftovers and again allows you to scout effectively and react accordingly. More specifically, it allows Seismitoad to check for any random Hidden Power Grass Grasses or Grass Knot Knots from the likes of Samurott or and opposing Seismitoad. It's especially lethal useful if Seismitoad is paired with a Toxic Spikes user, as the extra turns to sap the opponent's HP can be crucial.</p>

    <p>The EVs on this set are fairly specific. Defense is maximized so that Seismitoad can take on the threats it's supposed to counter with maximum efficiency, while and 200 HP EVs hit a Leftovers number. The 56 EVs in Special Defense insure that Seismitoad is never OHKOed by Hidden Power Grass from Life Orb Zebstrika and Electrode. It even has a good chance to avoid the OHKO after Stealth Rock damage and can proceed to OHKO both of them in return with Earthquake. A specially defensive EV spread is viable, (remove comma) and helps Seismitoad better check the likes of Electric-types and Jynx, but Seismitoad it loses the ability to beat opposing Stealth Rock leads as well as Shell Smash Carracosta. Some Speed EVs are also an option, with 24 coupled with either a Bold or Impish nature allowing Seismitoad to outspeed maximum Speed Golem, but this detracts from either Scald's Scald or Earthquake's power and Seismitoad is capable of defeating Golem regardless.</p>

    <p>Ideal teammates for Seismitoad will be able to switch into the Grass-type attacks targeted at it with little-to-no little to no risk. Sap Sipper Pokemon, such as Miltank and Sawsbuck, can gain a boost to their Attack for free and then do as they please. Roselia has excellent defensive synergy with Seismitoad, as it takes next to nothing from Grass-type attacks and can strike back at their users with its STAB Sludge Bomb. It also handles special threats akin to how Seismitoad does takes care of physical ones and has the ability to set up additional entry hazards. Metang is another solid choice for a teammate for Seismitoad, with the two covering each other's weaknesses nicely and Metang's access to Stealth Rock freeing Seismitoad to use another move in lieu of Stealth Rock. Flying-types are also good partners, as they can switch in on Grass-types easily and immediately threaten them with their STAB moves. Articuno, Braviary, and Charizard are notable examples, as Articuno has the sheer bulk and STAB combination to beat practically any Grass-type, Braviary can use them as setup fodder, and Charizard sports a quadruple resistance to Grass, (remove comma) while and Seismitoad also covers all of Charizard's weaknesses perfectly. Other than that, it's really Seismitoad who supports the team and not the other way around.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Stealth Rock
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Earth Power
    move 4: Toxic / Grass Knot
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Modest
    evs: 232 HP / 252 SpA / 24 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Akin to the first set, this This set focuses on setting up Stealth Rock while and matching up well against opposing Stealth Rock leads, (remove comma) but takes a more by taking an offensive approach in order to take advantage of its excellent offensive typing. With the combination of its two STABs, Seismitoad is capable of taking down nearly every Stealth Rock lead in the tier barring the rare Torterra and Cradily, effectively turning Seismitoad it into a powerful anti-lead. While it certainly can't stomach Earthquakes as well as the first set can a more defensive set could, it really doesn't need to, as its higher offensive presence allows it to take down opposing leads in one or two hits.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock is a staple on this set as Seismitoad is such a reliable setter of it; it then can follow up with a powerful attack. While Seismitoad does somewhat lack power, Hydro Pump's high Base Power more than makes up for that this, making quick work of common leads such as Golurk, Golem, Piloswine, Armaldo, and Regirock. Earth Power is Seismitoad's chosen Ground STAB, notably hitting Steel-types such as Metang, Probopass, and Bastiodon, whereas none of them which can do much in return. Finally, the last moveslot is generally reserved for Toxic, deviating deterring bulky walls and Grass-types from switching in, as the chip damage can go a long way in ensuring one doesn't get swept by the likes of Ludicolo or and Serperior. Grass Knot, on the other hand, is a viable coverage move that adds to Seismitoad's ability as an anti-lead; while it doesn't appear to provide much in coverage, it punishes opposing Seismitoad, which in itself makes it viable. Aside from that, (remove comma) though, Toxic is the more useful choice.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread allows for outspeeding Seismitoad to outspeed maximum Speed Golem, maximizes power, and puts the rest goes into bulk to give Seismitoad it a bit more longevity. Maximum Speed investment can be used, but as Seismitoad's main goal is to take down opposing Stealth Rock leads, it isn't necessary. Leftovers further capitalizes on its good natural bulk, allowing it to take random hits with less pressure. To players who are less conservative, (remove comma) and more focused on OHKOing certain leads, Expert Belt is an interesting item choice to consider; this now leaves it makes Seismitoad capable of OHKOing standard Piloswine with Hydro Pump. This comes in even greater is even more handy when using Grass Knot; (change to comma) allowing Seismitoad can now to OHKO opposing bulky Seismitoad with Grass Knot. On that note, Life Orb is an even more offensive approach that powers up all of Seismitoad's attacks; this, however, does not bring any notable KOs along with it, and detracts from Seismitoad's tanking abilities.</p>

    <p>The fourth moveslot is also fairly variable can also viably vary somewhat from Toxic and Grass Knot, with some honorable mentions including Hidden Power Ice and Sludge Bomb. Hidden Power Ice is most notable for hitting Torterra and Cradily for super effective damage, the two Stealth Rock leads Seismitoad is not capable of beating otherwise. While it does improve its Seismitoad's coverage quite a bit, neither of these Pokemon are common enough to warrant its use, and it still fails to 2HKO Cradily anyway. Sludge Bomb also provides decent coverage, most notably against Ludicolo. However, this does not help it Seismitoad achieve any KOs against opposing leads, and it shouldn't be staying in on Ludicolo anyway.</p>

    <p>Seismitoad can set up Stealth Rock, prevent the opponent from setting up their own Stealth Rock, and easily dispose of its common setters. Because of this, any Pokemon that can take advantage of all of this is a quality partner. Braviary, Charizard, and Jynx are some of the best examples of this, all handily appreciating Seismitoad's services and in return easily dealing with Grass-types, foes of which Seismitoad quickly falls to. This set finds its home mainly on offensive teams that can enjoy the Stealth Rock support provided by Seismitoad it provides, (remove comma) but and do not enjoy losing momentum. It does not outstall the opponent through sheer bulk like the first set more defensive sets; it uses its natural bulk to tank one or two hits and its greater power to make KOing them easier.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Swift Swim
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Stealth Rock / Sludge Bomb
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Mild
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is the most offensive approach to Seismitoad you can take, (remove comma) and is Seismitoad's its best shot at sweeping. While it might appear to be outclassed by other Swift Swim sweepers such as Gorebyss and Ludicolo, due to having their better offenses and wider offensive movepools, Seismitoad has two qualities that set it apart from its competition: an immunity to Electric and access to Stealth Rock. This is often can be key for many dedicated rain teams, who would often otherwise lack both, and Seismitoad is extremely effective at its job. While there are often better choices for a standalone rain sweepers sweeper, Seismitoad plays the role of both a supporter and a sweeper, (remove comma) and pulls it off well.</p>

    <p>Rain Dance is the obvious focus of the set; doubling Seismitoad's Speed and significantly increasing its power is mandatory to begin its sweep. Also, because Seismitoad often finds itself paired up with other rain sweepers, they can often pick up each other's slack should one of them be taken down. Hydro Pump is the obvious Water STAB, hitting like a truck when factoring in rain and the Life Orb boost. Earthquake is the recommended Ground STAB on this set&mdash;while it does split Seismitoad's offenses and forces it to run a Defense-lowering nature, it boasts the ability to OHKO and 2HKO Jynx and Roselia, respectively, two huge threats to rain teams. Finally, Stealth Rock is an extremely useful move in the last slot, allowing Seismitoad to support its team while still being and still be able to reliably sweep in the rain. As many rain teams often lack a Stealth Rock setter, it's also a massive selling point in that regard. That said, if your team does already have a Stealth Rock setter, Sludge Bomb provides great coverage alongside Seismitoad’s (change to straight apostrophe) STABs, notably hitting Grass-types for super effective damage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>With maximum Speed investment, Seismitoad can outspeed everything up to +1 base 100s in the rain, and the rest emphasizes on of the EV spread greatly increases its power. A Mild nature secures the OHKO on Jynx and 2HKO on Roselia with Earthquake, no entry hazards required, and preserves Seismitoad's Special Defense, as it is usually the main check to Electric-types on a rain team. A Rash nature can preserve its physical Defense, (remove comma) and helps it tank stray Stone Edges or and Earthquakes better. This is not usually necessary, (remove comma) though, as rain teams always carry more than one Rock- or and Ground-type check on their team, and taking hits from Electric-types better is far more important.</p>

    <p>Surf continues the never-ending debate of power vs. accuracy; in this case, (remove comma) however, the power of Hydro Pump has priority as Seismitoad is not the strongest attacker around. Earth Power can be used with a Modest nature to make use of the set's higher Special Attack investment, (remove comma) and at the same time preserve its physical bulk. Despite this, Earthquake is still the superior option, as the ability to defeat Jynx and Roselia is not found on many other rain sweepers in the tier. Hidden Power Ice is an option over Stealth Rock or and Sludge Bomb; like Sludge Bomb, it hits most Grass-types for super effective damage, and but it also has the added effect of KOing Altaria, who would wall this set otherwise. Unfortunately, it misses out on hitting Ludicolo, the most common Grass-type in the metagame, and often fails to do enough damage to Grass-types anyway. Finally, if Life Orb's recoil doesn't appeal to you, Damp Rock or and Leftovers are viable alternatives; the former extending rain turns and the latter increasing longevity (this seems a little bit like fluff to me, but you can leave it in if you want as long as you change the semicolon to a comma). The power boost from Life Orb is far more important, (remove comma) though, and as this set plays a bit more recklessly than the ones above it others, Life Orb recoil is often negligible.</p>

    <p>As stated before, this Seismitoad works best on dedicated rain teams thanks to its access to both Stealth Rock and Rain Dance, and its partners should reflect that. Articuno and Jynx are two prime examples of such&mdash;dealing with problematic Grass-types easily as well as benefitting from rain through a 100% accurate Hurricane and Dry Skin, respectively. Roselia and Vileplume also pair up with Seismitoad well; not only do they 4x resist Grass and can have the ability to retaliate back with STAB Sludge Bomb, but they enjoy the rain thanks to having their Fire weakness removed. Finally, Ludicolo is an excellent partner for this set, as it absolutely loves having both rain and Stealth Rock already set up when it enters the field, (remove comma) and in general shares great offensive synergy with Seismitoad.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Seismitoad does have a rather shallow movepool (even lacking moves such as Waterfall and Ice Beam), and most of its options have already been covered. RestTalk is Seismitoad's only form of recovery, but RestTalk is far too unreliable to work and often ends up doing more harm than good due to forcing Seismitoad to give up two valuable moveslots. Focus Blast can be used on the offensive sets to provide coverage against Normal-types, such as Lickilicky and Audino. Unfortunately, they are both bulky enough that they can take Focus Blast and heal it off, and so it doesn't help much at all. Seismitoad's physical movepool is relatively expansive, with it getting access to moves like Earthquake, Drain Punch, Ice Punch, and Rock Slide, so a fully physical set sounds decent at first. The lack of a Water-type STAB is rather disappointing, (remove comma) though. Likewise, a mixed set using moves such as Hydro Pump, Earthquake, Sludge Bomb, and Drain Punch sounds plausible, but it doesn't end up accomplishing anything its Seismitoad's other sets can't already do.</p>

    <p>A special mention goes to a set carrying both Substitute and Toxic, allowing Seismitoad to systematically break down walls such as Alomomola. It does, however, detract from its Seismitoad's sweeping potential quite a bit. It's still a perfectly viable set, (remove comma) though, (change to semicolon) it just doesn't differentiate itself enough to warrant its own set. Another interesting choice is the combination of Substitute and Endeavor, allowing Seismitoad to lure in and defeat many of its counters; this is somewhat difficult to pull off, however, and detracts from Seismitoad's utility. Poison Touch might sound interesting on physical sets, but in reality Poison Touch it is just straight-up outclassed by its Seismitoad's other two abilities. Rindo Berry is an interesting item, particularly on the more defensive sets; it allows Seismitoad to survive one Grass-type move and proceed to do what it likes. However, this does not make up for a lack of Leftovers, and it only works once. Finally, Choice Specs is usable, but it is inferior to the other offensive sets, as they boast far more utility.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As it stands, Grass-types are the best clear-cut answers to Seismitoad; not only do they resist its STAB combination, but they can OHKO in return with their STABs. A Grass / Poison-type, such as Vileplume, fares even better against our poor toad friend Seismitoad&mdash;not only is it not weak to Sludge Bomb, but it is immune to Toxic as well, leaving Seismitoad with near no hope of emerging victorious. As Seismitoad is not overly powerful, special walls generally fare well against it. Lickilicky and Altaria are two prime example of this, (remove comma) thanks to their ability to take Seismitoad’s (change to straight apostrophe) attacks with ease and heal off Toxic thanks to with Heal Bell. Mantine is basically a complete stop to any Seismitoad; it is literally immune to both its STABs, can heal off Toxic thanks to Rest, and can whittle away at Seismitoad's health through with Air Slash. Regice is another great counter to Seismitoad, not fearing Toxic thanks to Rest and can take taking it down with a few Ice Beams. Jynx is also an excellent check thanks to Dry Skin and can threaten with Lovely Kiss, though it does fear Earthquake. Finally, residual damage&mdash;in addition to simply pounding away at it with powerful attacks&mdash;is effective at wearing down Seismitoad, as its lack of reliable recovery can easily be used against it.</p>


    GP: 1/2
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2013
  14. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast vroom vroom
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    Thanks @melvni , implemented. Although I did find several of your changes to be kind of unnecessary, so I left those out :/

    Anyway, onto second GP :)
  15. melvni

    melvni
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    Alright that's cool I looked through them again, and I'm fine with most of the one's you chose not to implement if you don't want to implement them. There were a couple though that should be changed even if you want to use different phrasing than I suggested, which you are always free to do.

    Show Hide
    You need parallel structure here. There are two ways of reading the three parts of this list. 1) These are all Pokemon with high Attack stats; these are all Pokemon with generally full offensive investment; these are all Pokemon with using powerful Earthquakes. 2.) These are all Pokemon with high Attack stats; these are all Pokemon generally full offensive investment; these are all Pokemon using powerful Earthquakes. Because of the bolded parts, neither of these work, so you need to make a change somewhere (even if its different than my initial suggestion) so you have parallel structure.

    I made a few changes here removing mentions of things like "the first set" that you didn't implement. Sets are supposed to be written independent of each other because there's always the possibility that sets will be removed or the order will be changed. You can see examples of this in Oglemi's recent check of Ubers Giratina.

    Comes in handy is an expression; comes in even greater handy is not (I googled it and it only popped up here). Something like 'This especially comes in handy' is fine if you don't like my phrasing (or something different from that if you don't like this either) but you need to change this.

    Like I said above, sets are supposed to be independent.

    I'm fine if you don't like my change, but while you and me know what 'the rest' is referring to, the way you have it written is grammatically unclear. Changing it to something like 'the rest of the EV spread' fixes the issue, and you are free to rephrase this differently as long as you fix this, but some change does need to be made.
  16. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast vroom vroom
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    Okay, I implemented the changes you pointed out, so this should be ready for the next check! :)
  17. Hollywood

    Hollywood 12/10 personality
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    GP @Dat Blast

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    [Overview]

    <p>Seismitoad has a plethora of several qualities that earn it a spot on many teams in NU. Its stats are very well-balanced, making it a threat to look out for both offensively and defensively. Its excellent bulk, Water / Ground typing, and incredibly useful ability in Water Absorb allow it Seismitoad to serve as a capable defensive pivot. On the other hand, its Seismitoad's access to powerful attacks, such as Hydro Pump and Earthquake, and Swift Swim ability ensure its capability as a sweeper and offensive tank as well. Its access to Stealth Rock only adds to its viability, as it functions incredibly well as a Stealth Rock setter thanks to its ability to threaten out a large majority of the tier and set it up. Seismitoad is not without its flaws, however. (no Pokemon is, so this doesn't really add anything substantial to the overview) Its However, Seismitoad's lack of reliable recovery severely hinders its ability to check multiple threats on a team; in other words, it's worn down quite easily, especially with the continuous rise of offense in offensive nature of the metagame. While its typing might bless it with various resistances and immunities, it also burdens it Seismitoad with a crippling 4x weakness to Grass that is opponents can easily use to their advantage. Despite this, Seismitoad's positives far outshine its negatives, and its excellence in the tier cannot be denied. (super cliche; the overview is fine without it)</p>

    [SET]
    name: Utility
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Scald
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Toxic / Knock Off
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Relaxed
    evs: 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Thanks to its excellent typing, useful ability, and good bulk, Seismitoad is extremely effective at running with a physically based defensive set. It matches up excellently against the most common users of Stealth Rock in the tier: Golem, Piloswine, Golurk, Regirock, and Armaldo, all of which are weak to its STAB moves and are physical attackers. In addition, their special bulk is average at best, meaning that Seismitoad can dispose of them easily with Scald. To truly appreciate just how effective Seismitoad is at taking on these Pokemon, it's only 3HKOed by Golurk, has a 25% chance to be 4HKOed by Golem, is 4HKOed by Piloswine, and is only 5HKOed by Armaldo, and while Regirock cannot even touch it. These are all Pokemon with high Attack stats, generally full offensive investment, and powerful Earthquakes. Being physically based also makes Seismitoad the best counter to one of the most threatening Pokemon in the tier: Shell Smash Carracosta. However, Seismitoad is not limited to taking resisted hits; both Choice Band Sawk and Braviary fail to OHKO it even after Stealth Rock and Spikes damage, while Seismitoad can deal a powerful blow to Sawk's reduced defenses or hope to (the way this is phrased implies Scald always burns—insert joke about how it does always burn here) burn them both with Scald.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock is an obvious choice on a Pokemon that matches up so well against the other Pokemon that set it up and outspeeds all of them even with a Relaxed nature. Major threats such as Scolipede, Jynx, and Charizard hate having to lose so much of their HP when they switch in, and Seismitoad is extremely reliable at ensuring this happens. Scald is the obligatory STAB move of choice on a defensive Water-type Pokemon such as Seismitoad, and the relatively high chance to burn the opponent makes Seismitoad even more of a full stop to physical attackers. Earthquake is the recommended move over Earth Power, as it OHKOes Jynx after Stealth Rock and generally deals more damage. The last slot is fairly variable. Toxic is the recommended choice, as bulky Grass-types, such as Serperior and Ludicolo, love to switch into Seismitoad but absolutely despise being badly poisoned. It's also an excellent way to wear down other bulky Water-types, such as Alomomola. Knock Off is a more colorful option that can be used to scout potential sets based on the opponent's item and is very handy for crippling the many Eviolite users that reside in the tier.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Protect is another possible move to use in the last slot. It enables Seismitoad to regain more HP from Leftovers and again allows you to scout effectively and react accordingly. More specifically, it allows Seismitoad to check for any random Hidden Power Grasses or Grass Knots from the likes of Samurott and opposing Seismitoad. It's especially lethal if Seismitoad is paired with a Toxic Spikes user, as the extra turns to sap diminish (sap makes me think absorb, so anything that clarifies better should be used here) the opponent's HP can be crucial.</p>

    <p>The EVs on this set are fairly specific. Defense is maximized so that Seismitoad can take on the threats it's supposed to counter with maximum efficiency, while 200 HP EVs hit a Leftovers number. The 56 EVs in Special Defense insure ensure that Seismitoad is never OHKOed by Hidden Power Grass from Life Orb Zebstrika and Electrode. It even has a good chance to avoid the OHKO after Stealth Rock damage and can proceed to OHKO both of them in return with Earthquake. A specially defensive EV spread is viable,(remove comma) and helps Seismitoad better check the likes of Electric-types and Jynx, but it loses the ability to beat opposing Stealth Rock leads as well as Shell Smash Carracosta. Some Speed EVs are also an option, with 24 coupled with either a Bold or Impish nature allowing Seismitoad to outspeed maximum Speed Golem, but this detracts from either Scald or Earthquake's power and Seismitoad is capable of defeating Golem regardless.</p>

    <p>Ideal teammates for Seismitoad will be able to switch into the Grass-type attacks targeted at it with little to no risk. Sap Sipper Pokemon, such as Miltank and Sawsbuck, can gain a boost to their Attack for free and then do as they please. Roselia has excellent defensive synergy with Seismitoad, as it takes next to nothing from Grass-type attacks and can strike back at their users with its STAB Sludge Bomb. It also handles special threats akin to how Seismitoad takes care of physical ones and has the ability to set up additional entry hazards. Metang is another solid choice for a teammate, with the two covering each other's weaknesses nicely and Metang's access to Stealth Rock freeing Seismitoad to use another move in lieu of it. Flying-types are also good partners, as they can switch in on Grass-types easily and immediately threaten them with their STAB moves. Articuno, Braviary, and Charizard are notable examples, as Articuno has the sheer bulk and STAB combination to beat practically any Grass-type, Braviary can use them as setup fodder, and Charizard sports a quadruple resistance to Grass, while Seismitoad also covers all of Charizard's weaknesses perfectly. Other than that, it's really Seismitoad who supports the team and not the other way around.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Stealth Rock
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Earth Power
    move 4: Toxic / Grass Knot
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Modest
    evs: 232 HP / 252 SpA / 24 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set takes a more offensive approach to setting up Stealth Rock in order to take advantage of its excellent offensive typing, while still matching up brilliantly against opposing Stealth Rock leads. With the combination of its two STABs, Seismitoad is capable of taking down nearly every Stealth Rock lead in the tier barring the rare Torterra and Cradily, effectively turning it into a powerful anti-lead. While it certainly can't stomach Earthquakes as well as more defensive sets can, it really doesn't need to, as its higher offensive presence allows it to take down opposing leads in one or two hits.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock is a staple on this set,(AC) as Seismitoad is such a reliable setter of it,(remove comma) and can then follow up with a powerful attack. While Seismitoad does somewhat lack power, Hydro Pump's high Base Power more than makes up for this, making quick work of common leads such as Golurk, Golem, Piloswine, Armaldo, and Regirock. Earth Power is Seismitoad's chosen Ground STAB, notably hitting Steel-types such as Metang, Probopass, and Bastiodon, none of which can do much in return. Finally, the last moveslot is generally reserved for Toxic, deterring bulky walls and Grass-types from switching in, as the chip damage can go a long way in ensuring one doesn't get swept by the likes of Ludicolo and Serperior. Grass Knot, on the other hand, is a viable coverage move that adds to Seismitoad's ability as an anti-lead; while it doesn't appear to provide much in coverage, it punishes opposing Seismitoad, which in itself makes it viable. Aside from that, though, Toxic is the more useful choice.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread allows Seismitoad to outspeed maximum Speed Golem, maximizes power, and puts the rest into bulk to give it a bit more longevity. Maximum Speed investment can be used, but as Seismitoad's main goal is to take down opposing Stealth Rock leads, it isn't necessary. Leftovers further capitalizes on its Seismitoad's good natural bulk, allowing it to take random hits with less pressure. To players who are less conservative,(remove comma) and more focused on OHKOing certain leads, Expert Belt is an interesting item choice to consider; this makes Seismitoad capable of OHKOing standard Piloswine with Hydro Pump. This especially comes in handy when using Grass Knot, allowing Seismitoad to OHKO opposing bulky Seismitoad. On that note, Life Orb is an even more offensive approach that powers up all of Seismitoad's attacks; this, however, does not bring any notable KOs along with it, and it detracts from Seismitoad's tanking abilities.</p>

    <p>The fourth moveslot can also vary somewhat from Toxic and Grass Knot, with some honorable mentions including Hidden Power Ice and Sludge Bomb. Hidden Power Ice is most notable for hitting Torterra and Cradily,(AC) the two Stealth Rock leads Seismitoad is not capable of beating otherwise,(AC) for super effective damage,(remove comma) the two Stealth Rock leads Seismitoad is not capable of beating otherwise. (appositive phrases should always go after the noun(s) they are describing) While it does improve Seismitoad's coverage quite a bit, neither of these Pokemon are common enough to warrant its use, and it still fails to 2HKO Cradily anyway. Sludge Bomb also provides decent coverage, most notably against Ludicolo. However, this does not help Seismitoad achieve any KOs against opposing leads, and it shouldn't be staying in on Ludicolo anyway.</p>

    <p>Seismitoad can set up Stealth Rock, prevent the opponent from setting up their own Stealth Rock, and easily dispose of its common setters. Because of this, any Pokemon that can take advantage of all of this is a quality partner. Braviary, Charizard, and Jynx are some of the best examples of this, all handily appreciating Seismitoad's services and in return easily dealing with Grass-types, foes which Seismitoad quickly falls to. This set finds its home mainly on offensive teams that enjoy the Stealth Rock support it provides,(remove comma) but do not enjoy without losing momentum. It Seismitoad does not outstall the opponent through sheer bulk like defensive sets do; it uses its natural bulk to tank one or two hits and its greater power to make KOing them easier.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Swift Swim
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Stealth Rock / Sludge Bomb
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Mild
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is the most offensive approach to Seismitoad you can take,(remove comma) and is its best shot at sweeping. While it might have inferior offensive stats and a more narrow offensive movepool than appear to be outclassed by other Swift Swim sweepers,(AC) such as Gorebyss and Ludicolo, due to their better offenses and wider offensive movepools,(remove comma) Seismitoad has two qualities that set it apart from its competition: an immunity to Electric and access to Stealth Rock. This can be key for many dedicated rain teams, who would often otherwise lack both,(remove comma) and Seismitoad is extremely effective at its job. (this is alluded to in the following sentence) While there are often better choices for standalone rain sweepers, Seismitoad plays the role of both a supporter and a sweeper, and it pulls it off well.</p>

    <p>Rain Dance is the obvious focus of the set; doubling Seismitoad's Speed and significantly increasing its power is mandatory to begin its sweep. Also, because Seismitoad often finds itself paired up with other rain sweepers, they can often pick up each other's slack should one of them be taken down. Hydro Pump is the obvious Water STAB, hitting like a truck extremely hard (http://puu.sh/41JYT.png http://puu.sh/41JVT.png) when factoring in rain and the Life Orb boost. Earthquake is the recommended Ground STAB on this set&mdash;while it does split Seismitoad's offenses and forces it to run a Defense-lowering nature, it boasts the ability to OHKO and 2HKO Jynx and Roselia, respectively, two huge threats to rain teams. Finally, Stealth Rock is an extremely useful move in the last slot, allowing Seismitoad to support its team and still be able to reliably sweep in the rain. As many rain teams often lack a Stealth Rock setter, it's also a massive selling point in that regard. That said, if your team does already have a Stealth Rock setter, Sludge Bomb provides great coverage alongside Seismitoad's STABs, notably hitting Grass-types for super effective damage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>With maximum Speed investment, Seismitoad can outspeed everything up to +1 base 100s Speed Pokemon in the rain, and the rest of the EVs emphasize on power. A Mild nature secures the OHKO on Jynx and 2HKO on Roselia with Earthquake, no entry hazards required, and preserves Seismitoad's Special Defense, as it is usually the main check to Electric-types on a rain team. A Rash nature can preserve its physical Defense,(remove comma) and helps it tank stray Stone Edges and Earthquakes better. This is not usually necessary, though, as rain teams always carry more than one Rock- and Ground-type check on their team, and taking hits from Electric-types better is far more important.</p>

    <p>Surf continues the never-ending debate of power vs. accuracy; in this case, however, the power of Hydro Pump has priority as Seismitoad is not the strongest attacker around. Earth Power can be used with a Modest nature to make use of the set's higher Special Attack investment, and at the same time preserve its physical bulk. Despite this, Earthquake is still the superior option, as the ability to defeat Jynx and Roselia is not found on many other rain sweepers in the tier. Hidden Power Ice is an option over Stealth Rock and Sludge Bomb; like Sludge Bomb, it hits most Grass-types for super effective damage, but it also has the added effect of KOing Altaria, who would wall this set otherwise. Unfortunately, it misses out on hitting Ludicolo, the most common Grass-type in the metagame, and often fails to do enough damage to Grass-types anyway. Finally, if Life Orb's recoil doesn't appeal to you, Damp Rock and Leftovers are viable alternatives. Both have unique traits surrounding them, with the former extending rain turns and the latter increasing longevity. The power boost from Life Orb is far more important, though, and as this set plays a bit more recklessly than others, Life Orb recoil is often negligible.</p>

    <p>As stated before, this Seismitoad works best on dedicated rain teams thanks to its access to both Stealth Rock and Rain Dance, and its partners should reflect that. Articuno and Jynx are two prime examples of such&mdash;dealing with problematic Grass-types easily as well as benefitting from rain through a 100% accurate Hurricane and Dry Skin, respectively. Roselia and Vileplume also pair up with Seismitoad well; not only do they 4x resist Grass and can retaliate back with STAB Sludge Bomb, but they also enjoy the rain thanks to having their Fire weakness removed. Finally, Ludicolo is an excellent partner for this set, as it absolutely loves having both rain and Stealth Rock already set up when it enters the field,(remove comma) and in general shares great offensive synergy with Seismitoad.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Seismitoad does have a rather shallow movepool (even lacking moves such as Waterfall and Ice Beam), and most of its options have already been covered. RestTalk is Seismitoad's only form of recovery, but RestTalk is far too unreliable to work and often ends up doing more harm than good due to forcing Seismitoad to give up two valuable moveslots. Focus Blast can be used on the offensive sets to provide coverage against Normal-types, such as Lickilicky and Audino. Unfortunately, they are both bulky enough that they can take Focus Blast and heal it off, so it doesn't help much at all. Seismitoad's physical movepool is relatively expansive, with it getting access to moves like such as Earthquake, Drain Punch, Ice Punch, and Rock Slide, so a fully physical set sounds decent at first. The lack of a Water-type STAB is rather disappointing, though. Likewise, a mixed set using moves such as Hydro Pump, Earthquake, Sludge Bomb, and Drain Punch sounds plausible, but it doesn't end up accomplishing anything Seismitoad's other sets can't already do.</p>

    <p>A special mention goes to a set carrying both Substitute and Toxic, allowing Seismitoad to systematically break down walls such as Alomomola. It does, however, detract from Seismitoad's sweeping potential quite a bit. It's still a perfectly viable set, though; it just doesn't differentiate itself enough to warrant its own set. Another interesting choice is the combination of Substitute and Endeavor, allowing Seismitoad to lure in and defeat many of its counters; this is somewhat difficult to pull off, however, and detracts from Seismitoad's utility. Poison Touch might sound interesting on physical sets, but in reality it is just straight-up outclassed by Seismitoad's other two abilities. Rindo Berry is an interesting item, particularly on the more defensive sets; it allows Seismitoad to survive one Grass-type move and proceed to do what it likes. However, this does not make up for a lack of Leftovers, and it only works once. Finally, Choice Specs is usable, but it is inferior to other offensive sets, as they boast far more utility.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As it stands, Grass-types are the best clear-cut answers to Seismitoad; not only do they resist its STAB combination, but they can OHKO in return with their STABs. A Grass / Poison-type, such as Vileplume, fares even better against Seismitoad&mdash;not only is it not weak to Sludge Bomb, but it is immune to Toxic as well, leaving Seismitoad with near no hope of emerging victorious. As Seismitoad is not overly powerful, special walls generally fare well against it. Lickilicky and Altaria are two prime example of this, thanks to their ability to take Seismitoad's attacks with ease and heal off Toxic with Heal Bell. Mantine is basically a complete stop to any Seismitoad; it is immune to both its STABs, can heal off Toxic thanks to Rest, and can whittle away at Seismitoad's health with Air Slash. Regice is another great counter to Seismitoad, not fearing Toxic thanks to Rest and taking it down with a few Ice Beams. Jynx is also an excellent check thanks to Dry Skin and can the ability to threaten with Lovely Kiss, though it does fear Earthquake. Finally, residual damage&mdash;in addition to simply pounding away at it with powerful attacks&mdash;is effective at wearing down Seismitoad, as its lack of reliable recovery can easily be used against it.</p>


    Good work! This is a pretty long analysis with few errors, and most of the errors are minor or changes in sentence structure.

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    GP Approved 2/2
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