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Seismitoad (Update) [WIP]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by The NU Tuber, Jun 25, 2013.

  1. The NU Tuber

    The NU Tuber

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    Messages:
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    Added SubToxic and Offensive SR into the analysis, will work on them later
    [​IMG]
    I TOAD you so!



    [Overview]
    • Great balance of stats to make it a legitimate offensive/defensive threat
    • Cool Water/Ground typing, Water Absorb and great bulk allows it to serve as a great bulky pivot
    • Offensive stats aren’t outstanding, but has high-power moves to make up for it (Hydro Pump, Earth Power/Earthquake, etc.) and Swift Swim
    • Potent supporter/sweeper in NU
    • Lacks reliable recovery/worn down easily especially with the offensive nature of the meta
    • Crippling 4x weakness to Grass
    • Still one of the best mons in NU thanks to its well-rounded stats, key resistances/immunities, and good movepool
    [SET]
    name: Utility
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Scald
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Toxic / Knock Off
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Relaxed
    evs: 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Thanks to its excellent typing, useful ability, and good bulk, Seismitoad is extremely effective at running a physically-based defensive set. It matches up excellently against the most common users of Stealth Rock in the tier, those being Golem, Piloswine, Golurk, Regirock and Armaldo, all of which are weak to Seismitoad's STAB moves and attack from the physical side. In addition, their special bulk is average at best, meaning that Seismitoad can dispose of them easily with Scald. To truly appreciate just how effective Seismitoad is at taking on these Pokemon, it's only 3HKOed by Golurk, has a 25% chance to be 4HKOed by Golem, is 4HKOed by Piloswine, and is only 5HKOed by Armaldo, while Regirock cannot even touch it. These are all Pokemon with high Attack stats, generally full offensive investment, and using powerful Earthquakes. Being physically-based also makes Seismitoad the best counter to one of the most threatening Pokemon in the tier: Shell Smash Carracosta. However, Seismitoad is not limited to taking resisted hits; both Choice Band Sawk and Braviary fail to OHKO Seismitoad even after Stealth Rock and Spikes damage while Seismitoad can deal a powerful blow to Sawk's reduced defenses or burn them both with Scald.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock is an obvious choice on a Pokemon that matches up so well against the other Pokemon that set it up and outspeeds all of them even with a Relaxed nature. Major threats such as Scolipede, Jynx and Charizard hate having to lose so much of their HP when they switch in, and Seismitoad is extremely reliable at ensuring this happens. Scald is the obligatory Water-type STAB move of choice on a defensive Pokemon such as Seismitoad, and the high chance to burn the opponent makes Seismitoad even more of a full stop to physical attackers. Earthquake is the recommended move over Earth Power, as it OHKOes Jynx after Stealth Rock and generally deals more damage. The last slot is fairly variable. Toxic is the recommended choice, as bulky Grass-types, such as Serperior and Ludicolo, love to switch into Seismitoad but absolutely despise being badly poisoned. It's also an excellent way to wear down other bulky Water-types, such as Alomomola. Knock Off is a more colorful option that can be used to scout potential sets based on the opponent's item and is very handy for crippling the many Eviolite users that reside in the tier.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Protect is another interesting move to use in the last slot. It enables Seismitoad to regain more HP from Leftovers and again allows you to scout effectively and react accordingly. It's especially lethal if Seismitoad is paired with a Toxic Spikes user, as the extra turns to sap the opponent's HP can be crucial.</p>

    <p>The EVs on this set are fairly specific. Defense is maximized so that Seismitoad can take on the threats it's supposed to counter with maximum efficiency, while 200 HP EVs hit a Leftovers number. The 56 EVs in Special Defense insure that Seismitoad is never OHKOed by Hidden Power Grass from Life Orb Zebstrika and Electrode. It even has a good chance to avoid the OHKO after Stealth Rock damage and can proceed to OHKO both of them in return with Earthquake. A specially defensive EV spread is viable, and helps Seismitoad better check the likes of Electric-types and Jynx better, but Seismitoad loses the ability to beat opposing Stealth Rock leads as well as Shell Smash Carracosta.</p>

    <p>Ideal teammates for Seismitoad will be able to switch into the Grass-type attacks targeted at it with little-to-no risk. Sap Sipper Pokemon, such as Miltank and Sawsbuck, can gain a boost to their Attack for free and then do as they please. Roselia has excellent defensive synergy with Seismitoad, as it takes next to nothing from Grass-type attacks and can strike back at their users with its STAB Sludge Bomb. It also handles special threats akin to how Seismitoad does physical ones and has the ability to set up additional entry hazards. Flying-types are also good partners for Seismitoad, as they can switch in on Grass-types easily and immediately threaten them with their STAB moves. Articuno, Braviary, and Charizard are notable examples, as Articuno has the sheer bulk and STAB combination to beat practically any Grass-type, Braviary can use them as setup fodder, and Charizard sports a quadruple resistance to Grass, while Seismitoad also covers all of Charizard's weaknesses perfectly. Other than that, it's really Seismitoad who supports the team and not the other way around.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Stealth Rock
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Earth Power
    move 4: Grass Knot / Sludge Bomb
    item: Leftovers / Expert Belt
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Modest
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    [SET]
    name: Swift Swim
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Stealth Rock / Sludge Bomb
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Mild
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Toad can go on the offensive w/ a Swift Swim set
    • Has several attributes that set it apart from other rain sweepers (immunity to Electric, access to Stealth Rock)
    • Rain Dance is the crux of the set, doubling Toad’s Speed/increasing the power of its Water STAB
    • Hydro Pump is Toad’s strongest Water STAB, hitting quite hard under the rain
    • EQ is the chosen Ground STAB as it hits Jynx/Roselia hard, OHKOing and 2HKOing respectively
    • SR lets Toad be more of a supporting sweeper, and is one of the set’s biggest selling points
    • If something else on your team already has SR, Sludge Bomb can hit Grass-types
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • With maximum Speed investment, Toad outspeeds +1 base 100s in the rain and the rest maximizes power
    • Surf > Hydro Pump for the accuracy
    • Earth Power can be used over Earthquake, but doesn’t generally do anything EQ can’t
    • HP Ice can be used in the last slot to hit Altaria and still hits most Grass-types hard, but misses out on Ludicolo, the most common Grass-type in the meta
    • Damp Rock/Leftovers can extend rain turns/increase survivablity, respectively, but Toad needs the extra power from LO much more
    • Works well on full rain teams as it can support its team with both SR and Rain Dance
    • Articuno is a good partner, as it deals with Grass-types easily and benefits from rain w/ Hurricane
    • Grass-types like Roselia/Vileplume can take Grass moves with ease and retaliate back w/ Sludge Bomb
    • Ludicolo also highly appreciates the rain and SR support Toad provides, and has good offensive synergy with it
    [SET]
    name: SubToxic
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Toxic
    move 3: Hydro Pump
    move 4: Earth Power
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Modest
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    [Other Options]
    • RestTalk is Toad’s only form of recovery, but is an unreliable strategy and forces Toad to give up two valuable moveslots
    • Grass Knot can hit bulky Waters, but doesn’t provide much else otherwise
    • Focus Blast can hit Normals, but doesn’t do much to them anyway
    • Has a decently wide physical movepool w/ stuff like Drain Punch, Ice Punch, Rock Slide, etc. so a fully physical set is plausible, but the lack of a Water STAB is disappointing
    • Poison Touch is inferior to its other two abilities
    • Rindo Berry lets it survive a Grass-type move and retaliate back, but is rather situational and only works once
    • Choice Specs is usable, but inferior to other offensive sets
    • Not much else
    [Checks and Counters]
    • Grass-types resist its STABs, retaliate back, etc.
    • Grass/Poisons fare even better as they aren’t weak to Sludge Bomb and are immune to Toxic
    • Special walls like Lickilicky, Altaria, etc. can take Toad’s attacks with ease and wear it down
    • Mantine is immune to both its STABs, heals off Toxic w/ Rest and can whittle it down w/ Air Slash
    • Jynx w/ Dry Skin handles any set w/o Earthquake and threatens w/ Lovely Kiss
    • Residual damage of any kind really wears down Toad as it has no form of recovery
  2. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    This looks like it's still a WIP, so I would reflect that in the title.

    I would add a bigger mention about SpD in AC of the Physically Defensive spread. Mention that it lets it take on Electric-type Pokemon and Jynx better. When you do so also rename the set to: Utility.

    I liked SubToxic when I used it last time like last tier shift, but there are a few things. I don't like having random bulk for no reason on offensive mons. I would just make the spread 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe and be done with it. Also since you're using Modest, Earthquake is not a very good choice since it no longer has a guaranteed KO vs Jynx and is doesn't deal enough damage vs Roselia like you want it to. I'd rather have Earth Power here. The moveset order should be: Substitute | Toxic | Hydro Pump | Earth Power. Scald in AC.

    Another set I think is good on Seismitoad is an Offensive Stealth Rock set. Order I would have it is: Utility then Offensive SR then SubToxic. Offensive SR looks like this:

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Stealth Rock
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Earth Power
    move 4: Grass Knot / Sludge Bomb
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Modest
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    The reason this set is good is because it has a great match up vs a lot of common leads such as: Golem, Probopass, Golurk, Piloswine, and opposing Seismitoad. Grass Knot gets the slash before Sludge Bomb for being able to hit Seismitoad and hit Samurott harder than Earth Power.

    The main problem I have with this set is that it's lacking just a bit of power to properly check every other lead. For example Hydro Pump fails to KO Regirock and Piloswine, while Grass Knot only OHKOes 252 HP Seismitoad 25% of the time. For other QC members, would Expert Belt be worth it on this set? It gets all the KOes that Leftovers doesn't at the expense of some survivability. Or just having a good match up against them enough?
  3. Hollywood

    Hollywood walking in a straight line, that's not really her style
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    I'd probably slash Expert Belt on the set. I think that just having a good matchup against opposing leads is usually good enough, but for teams that are running 2-3 Stealth Rock weak Pokemon, it would be worth it to run Expert Belt. It's a bit situational, but I think those situations where you would want to use Expert Belt merit the slash after Leftovers. Not many Pokemon can beat the majority of Stealth Rock leads out there without many troubles.

    Otherwise, agreeing with everything else in your post. SubToxic is cool, and its ability to beat Alomomola without getting Toxic'd in the process is great.
  4. The NU Tuber

    The NU Tuber

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    Added Offensive SR and SubToxic, set order is now: Utility, Offensive SR, Swift Swim, SubToxic. Thanks Treecko and ebeast!

    Btw if anyone has any other ideas for a set, feel free to post it here even though I might explode during the write-up
  5. tennisace

    tennisace brock you like a hurricane
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    Expert Belt should definitely be slashed, and I'd almost say it should be slashed first. It's a great way to nail opposing SR leads like Piloswine (81% chance of an OHKO with Hydro Miss), Seismitoad (OHKO on Physically defensive), etc. The extra power is worth it when the point of the set is to stop most other SR leads.

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